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| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 12:14am On Oct 06, 2019 |
Maximus69: They're not targeting anyone's wealth. They're not after dominating others with politics. They're not forcing anyone to join them. They're ready to teach anyone what they know. They're the most peaceful global group. They're never part of the ruling class. They're never part of any kind of war. They're wolves in sheeps clothing. Mat_7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 3:06am On Oct 06, 2019 |
brocab: brocab: You claim you believe in Jesus Christ. If your Trinity doctrine is not a FRAUD, please answer 3 questions I have for you. The first one, you have been dodging repeatedly on this thread... @*I) John17:3, According to Jesus Christ, who is the ONLY TRUE GOD? ** ii) Revelation 3:5,12, Did Jesus (now spirit) say Yahweh (spirit) is his Father in the spiritual realm? **iii) Is John14:28 ("the Father is greater than I"  & John17:3 on the earthly realm equivalent to Revelation 3:5,12, in the spiritual realm ?brocab, Are you so blissfully unaware that to label JWs a 'Cult' is a slur that amounts to a derogatory insult? brocab, please remove the straw from your eyes so you can see more clearly in order to discover the speck in another man's eyes. Thank you Sir. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Nobody: 2:36pm On Oct 06, 2019 |
brocab: @bolded could become a reality!  Note that God sent his only begotten son because he love the world SO MUCH {John 3:16} but at the same time Christians shouldn't be a friend of the world neither are we to LOVE anything that's in the world! 1John 2:15 compared to John 17:14-16 So how do you correlate these two? We prove our love by going to visit our neighbours incessantly in their homes but it's to extend our brotherly love to them as faithful worshippers of God. If they accept it, then they become our brothers in faith. If they reject it then they remain just like any other person in our neighborhood. They only become our enemies when they start attacking us because of our faith when they can't present another global happy family of worshippers with which we must associate! Jesus loved everyone but the Pharisees made themselves his enemies, Janosky, Barrister, OneJ and a host of my brothers out their love johnw47 but he kept accusing and cursing us repeatedly, for instance he labelled me as MAD MAX not because i ever insulted him, just because i'm of another faith. So Janosky is responding to johnw47 the way Jesus responded to Pharisees who kept insulting, accusing and cursing him! John 8:44 While i have ignored him completely! Ecclesiastes 3:7 Either way both of us are responding based on his attitudes towards us. Each only chooses what to do as God's holy spirit directs our heart! |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 11:53pm On Oct 06, 2019 |
Maximus69: ™false jw mad max ha ha ha, janosky, barrister, max, and a host of your brothers love johnw47 what a typical load of puffed up false jw bull it was you false jw mad max, that first posted to me and your post were anything but loving go read it, sickening liar and of course we know who the descendants of the pharisees are: Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Maximus69: i kept saying the truth about you, oh habitual liar Maximus69: laugh, you are mad ,with a foul tongue and puffed up to boot: Maximus69: Maximus69: oh cannot stop lying pharisee, laughing Maximus69: oh poor false jw, i do show up yout church of satan, don't i Maximus69: laughing, you know very well oh cannot stop lying mad max that it is i who responds to pharisee false jw's like Jesus did to your fore fathers: Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Maximus69: you stopped posting to me because i exposed the lies in your every post to me just like i have exposed your lies in this post about me Maximus69: your impersonable spirit isn't holy but is satan himself, true mad max you are such a phony cry baby  and of course lie like hellMat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by brocab: 12:58am On Oct 07, 2019 |
I have read page after page, there's nothing I could say that had been encourage-able to neither Johnw nor myself by the likes of you. You don't obey the first command, Love. But yet you believe you have some what place with God. Maximus69: |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by brocab: 1:08am On Oct 07, 2019 |
Time and time again, we have answered your silly questions-but your problem is, you don't believe it can be answered, you believe you have all the answers-what you don't have is God--and without God you don't have an answer.. Janosky: |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Nobody: 7:17am On Oct 07, 2019 |
brocab: This is social media where neither you, i or anyone else could see the face of other followers of the thread. So there can't be any way to evaluate LOVE here than presenting what you believe and chatting with others to know if what you've got is Faith or Credulity. We are humans, and humans were created with the inborn tendency for worship, that means people around you will like to get involved in one form of worship or another. But God only accepts worship that's undefiled, that's why most forms of worship have failed to unite the worshippers as each worshipper's involvement in worship is of the wrong motive~ SELFISHNESS The one and only worship on this planet that's focused on helping fellow worshippers to grow spiritually is Jehovah's Witnesses, that's why it seems as if we only have that LOVE amongst ourselves! John 13:34-35 This is Social Media, the only time you can get a path on your back from all other trinitarians is when you're criticizing the JWs, apart from that try go and chat with your fellow trinitarians to see if there is oneness of thought or belief amongst you! All what you've been doing with your fellow trinitarians here is just to support in criticizing the JWs for their oneness that's all! If you're sincere with yourself, try to sort out what you believe as Christian principles with other fellow trinitarians even those you worship inside the same building, you'll be shocked to see that each person has fashioned out his own dos and donts, while the JWs globally have the same mind on dos and donts. That's the reason why all of you are teaming against us. But let me warn you, if you love yourself think thoroughly about Jesus' statement when he said all other religious groups will hate his followers because of their oneness in mind! John 17:14-23 So if after all your churches programs like songs, vigils, revivals, musical concerts, December retreats and so on you people can't unite as one with fellow trinitarians from other places, then know today that you people only like that group name "Christians" but are not Christians! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 9:17am On Oct 07, 2019 |
john 17:23 is about Jesus apostles, and it also applies to christians since Christ today christians are persecuted daily around the world some unbelievers who know no better, think false jw's are christian, so they may have sometimes been targeted Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. true christians are all considered righteous, and are one with each other and with Christ through faith no matter what denomination they belong to Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. and boy do false jw's ever boast in thinking they are saved |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 9:18am On Oct 07, 2019 |
some churches are having differences of opinions on homosexuality, homosexual marriage, homosexual ministers, etc. and of course the sects who mostly agree with their peers, is because their god and deceiver satan loves to have God's churches having differences, while his churches appear righteous concerning the false jw sect: Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. non denominational bible believing christianity is the way to go apart from the staunch christian churches |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 11:45am On Oct 07, 2019 |
johnw47: John17:20,21, is Johnw FRAUD doctrine in agreement with the prayer of Jesus Christ ? "Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." ** Hebrews 10:25 "And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near." Johnw FRAUD doctrine against the holy Bible. Hebrew 10:25,says are very ALLERGIC to the truth. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 12:07pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
brocab: Brocab LIAR .... This is a public forum, nothing is hidden. I challenge you to show CONCRETE PROOF that you answered these questions @*i) ,**ii) & @iii.) I had addressed to you.... You claim you believe in Jesus Christ. If your Trinity doctrine is not a FRAUD, please answer 3 questions I have for you. The first one, you have been dodging repeatedly on this thread... @*I) John17:3, According to Jesus Christ, who is the ONLY TRUE GOD? **@ ii) Revelation 3:5,12, Did Jesus (now spirit) say Yahweh (spirit) is his Father in the spiritual realm? *** @ iii) Is John14:28 ("the Father is greater than I" & John17:3 on the earthly realm equivalent to Revelation 3:5,12, in the spiritual realm ?" |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Nobody: 12:17pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: If they can answer questions, let them go and meet people in their homes, preach to them and listen attentively as people pour out their hearts as they used to do when we speak to them in private. We don't just speak to the air for passersby to look and walk away, we speak with people one on one to reach their hearts! We know it's them against us, so there is no reason for questioning us or we questioning them. Let them go out there to the field and convince people on what the Christian faith means. We are doing our own job that's why all those who listen to us have the same line of thought with us. So let them prove they're Christians by forming one body of like minded worshippers just as Jesus prayed for, period! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 12:38pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
johnw47:"God sits at the right hand of His Father on the throne of God". Johnw , True or False? Oya, give your answer ^^^ "God is your throne" (Hebrew/Greek meaning ) God's throne is your throne . Hebrew and Greek are original languages of the holy Scriptures. Hebrew & Greek Bible writers never thought in English... The meaning of that phrase in Hebrew and Greek determines it's meaning in English. Don't TWIST the holy writ. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Nobody: 12:59pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: When they see Jehovah's Witnesses having rock solid FAITH they're puzzled, thinking it's juju or jass that we used to catch people. Imagine hearing all those gibberish when you're truthfully anticipating whole soul worship! Well that's all what they've got in their minds and they expect right thinking persons who aren't just worshiping for selfish reasons to come and join them! |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 1:25pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Maximus69: Johnw FRUAD, brocab and the Trinity crew are afraid of the truth and get scared that JWs have the boldness and the solid evidences to expose their falsehood. They can only resort to diversionary tactic and name calling. Forward ever, you witnesses of Jehovah. Jesus Christ is our Messiah and Examplar. Hallelujah ( means Praise Jehovah... for those who don't know.) !!!! My Brother Maximus69, Shalom |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Nobody: 1:28pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: @bolded is my favorite song! Song 61 Praise Jah my brother, One love! 1 Like |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by achorladey: 10:39pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: What was the DENOMINATION set up when that prayer was made in John 17 you cited? Were the DISCIPLES known as CHRISATIANS THEN? What DENOMINATION was the LETTER contained in the book of HEBREWS sent to? The mesaage is CLEAR ENOUGH.......... when Johnw47 made mention of non denomination Christians he knew what he was saying. Many people out there gather even in non religious settings to love one another and do fine works. You think it is only under denomination that can be achieved? |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 11:11pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: laughing, oh know nothing ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ Jesus is praying for all that believe on Him and others that believe on Him through their word they are all one in faith no matter where they are, or what their church is called, oh so duh one and of course the Lord isn't praying for those who say the Lord is "a god" , ha ha ha Janosky: many churches meet together and encourage one another in the truth even you pharisee satans mob meet and encourage each other in your evil ways: Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and[b] Pharisees, hypocrites![/b] for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 11:39pm On Oct 07, 2019 |
Janosky: how duh can one be, ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ how many times do i have to say it, of course it's true and of course it's not true that "Father is Jesus throne" as you false jw have been saying Jesus doesn't sit on His Father but on the right hand of His Father, oh most duh one by the way, one more time, Jesus doesn''t literally sit on His Fathers right hand i have to say it again because your confusion is enormous: 1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Janosky: lying twister of God's Word, making God a liar "god is your throne" clearly doesn't mean "God's throne is your throne" in the first saying: "God is a throne", in the second saying: "God's throne is Jesus throne" "God's throne is your throne" is correct and is the same as i have been saying, "Jesus sits with His Father on the throne of God" you have been saying "God is your throne" you have finally discovered that what i have been saying is true but you cannot admit it and you are doing the lets twist again on it but twisting is what you do best you way heap big fraud Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 12:01am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Maximus69: ™false jw mad max, truly theres nothing puzzling about your rock solid faith in your god satan through your elders and witchpower ^^^ one puffed up of satans mob feeding another vvv Janosky: ha ha ha ha, we are so scared of your boldness laughing, poor tormrnted ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ so so so puffed up ones Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 12:25am On Oct 08, 2019 |
johnw47:Shut up your mouth,shameless Johnw FRAUD theorist. "The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways: "God is your throne forever and ever" https://carm.org/heb-18-and-psalm-456-god-thy-throne. "God is your throne" is a legitimate way to translate Hebrew 1:8. BTW, you are a sheeple of carm.org., your Trinitarian mentor whose works you always use without giving him credit. You can't afford to disown him now.. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 12:30am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ the below are just a couple from this one page, laugh false jw's are such pharisee hypocrites Janosky: Janosky: Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Mat_23:15 Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 12:30am On Oct 08, 2019 |
johnw47:Shut up your mouth,shameless Johnw FRAUD theorist. "The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways: "God is your throne forever and ever" https://carm.org/heb-18-and-psalm-456-god-thy-throne. "God is your throne" is a legitimate way to translate Hebrew 1:8. BTW, you are a sheeple of carm.org., your Trinitarian mentor whose works you always use without giving him credit. You can't afford to disown him now.. You claim "Father and Jesus is God". Therefore, "God sits with His Father on the throne of God" Johnw FRAUD theorist, why you dey shift your own goal post? Is your Jesus not God ? |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 12:43am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ that link isn't working, fix it really know nothing, Jesus doesn't sit on His Father this sounds right and makes sense: Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. this sounds weird and deletes Father calling Jesus "O God" Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne is God, for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Janosky: paranoid false jw, i haven't visited carm in months, maybe longer and i haven't posted many articles from there, although they are probably worth posting paranoia isn't from God you know but it is from your god: 1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 12:49am On Oct 08, 2019 |
www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/hebrews1_8.html The Trinity delusion.... "The Greek Grammar and Intentional Translation Bias Concerning Hebrews 1:8, Trinitarian apologists are somewhat pretentious and would have you believe their "O God" translation is the only possible translation. So they always cherry pick the vocative "O God" translation for their apologetic agenda.* However, Trinitarian Greek translation scholars openly admit the Greek grammar does indeed allow for a different translation. Trinitarian scholars admit that "God is your throne (or Your throne is God) is grammatically correct (see Robertson or Westcott for example). Some of these scholars also concede that it makes theological sense. This is also evidenced by a review of various major translations. The RSV translates Psalm 45:6 as "Your divine throne endures forever and ever." The NRSV footnote for Psalm 45:6 reads, "Your throne is a throne of God" and the Hebrews 1:8 footnote reads, "God is your throne." (Note: * Some grammarians have even argued that the vocative is an artificial category created by translators. In other words, they argue that it is a category which is an English speaking convention which would have never been conceived in a Koine Greek speaker's mind.) The word "throne" in Scripture With the exception of a few informed scholars, Trinitarians generally seem to dismiss the "God is your throne," or "Your throne is God," translation because they can't imagine how God could be Jesus Christ's throne. Some even conclude this is silly because, they object, it would have God being used as Jesus' chair (throne). However, the ignorance is actually their own. The problem is that they are equating the word "throne" with a chair to sit upon. This notion comes from ignorance concerning the use of the word "throne" in the Scripture. David and Solomon sat on "the throne of Yahweh" (1 Chronicles 29:23; 2 Chronicles 9:  over theKingdom of God (1 Chronicles 28:5).. This does not mean they sat on God's chair in heaven. To sit on a throne means one assumes the authority signified by that throne. When David and Solomon sat on the throne of Yahweh it meant they were given the right to execute the authority of God's throne over the nation of Israel, that is, God's authority over Israel. " carm.org, A Trinitarian and the non Trinitarian, angelfire.com both agreed that "God is your throne " is legitimate way to translate Hebrew 1:8. Johnw FRAUD theorist, eleyi ogidigaan of falsehood. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 1:01am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: poor tormented ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ you have nothing at all so you post the same things twice and more in fact refer to other post for reply to that Janosky: yes i certainly do claim that Father and the Word is God Janosky: therefor God the Word sits with His Father on the throne of God Janosky: oh so confused know nothing yes the Word is God: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. there are many more verses showing that Jesus is God if you would like me to post them yet again and He sits with His Father on the throne of God: Mar_16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 1:02am On Oct 08, 2019 |
johnw47: The gospel account of Acts ,shows Christ followers were one,meeting together to encourage one another in the truth" Whom do you Johnw Pharisee meeting together with? You Pharisee wey dey disobey Jesus Christ. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 1:13am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ laughing, oh know nothing false accuser i meet with other christians and discuss God's Word and of course encourage one another while you false jw remain just like your daddy: Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by Janosky: 1:16am On Oct 08, 2019 |
johnw47: You mean your God the word sits with his Father on the throne of God his Father... Proof: Your 'God' the word is NOT the same Being as God his own Father..... Revelation 3:21, straight to the point. ** In Jesus name, I COMMAND you Johnw , to receive sense, AMEN. !!!!!!!! Case closed. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 2:09am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ you search online for others that agree with you i will stick with God's word(most all translations) that: "Thy throne, O God" is the proper translation and not the nwt "God is your throne" - it is certainly not proper plain english but you can trust the perverted nwt to confuse any words showing where Father calls Jesus "O God" i saw your mistake in posting that link you can't even get that right seeing that you posted the carm article you must agree with it you must agree that another way of translating that verse referring to Jesus is: "Thy Throne O God, is forever and ever . . . " or perhaps you just pick and choose what to believe as you do with God's word CARM: you seem to think that anglefire and carm are infallable i don't, but much of what carm says on that page you linked to is correct, isn't it? |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 2:30am On Oct 08, 2019 |
Janosky: laughing, forever confused ™lying pharisee deceiver false jw janosky/OneJ "God the Word sits with His Father on the throne of God"" "He sits with His Father on the throne of God" ^^^ that is what i said, just like the verses i posted show, oh confused lying twister, smile Janosky: ha ha ha, God the Word certainally is not the same person as God His Father they are both God though: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Janosky: so confused know nothing, all you have is your fantasies Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
| Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw47: 2:40am On Oct 08, 2019 |
™ lying pharisee deceiver false jw janosky/OneJ the link you gave to carm is interesting, you should have posted their full article CARM: Heb. 1:8 and Psalm 45:6, "God is thy throne." "But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness'" The New World Translation. In this particularly interesting verse, God is addressing the Son. The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways: "God is your throne forever and ever . . . and "Thy Throne O God, is forever and ever . . . " Because of the Watchtower presupposition that Jesus is not God, they choose the first version; otherwise, the Father would be calling Jesus God, and that goes against Jehovah's Witness theology. Yet, most Bibles do not translate it the way the New World Translation does. They choose the other way. Why? Two reasons. First, Heb. 1:8 is a quote from Psalm 45:6, which says, "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom" (All Bible quotes are from the NASB). In fact, the ASV, KJV, NIV, and NKJV all translated it as "Your throne, O God . . . " The RSV translates it as "Your divine throne endures for ever and ever," "but this is a highly unlikely translation because it requires understanding the Hebrew noun for "throne" in construct state, something extremely unusual when a noun has a pronominal suffix, as this one does . . . The KJV, NIV, and NASB all take the verse in its plain, straightforward sense, as do the ancient translations . . . " When we look at the Hebrew, we see that there is no grammatical requirement for this translation though it is considered to be the best translation by most translators. In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God; but, it is not uncommon for NT writers to take a verse in the OT that seemingly deals with one subject and apply it to another. They knew something we didn't. In fact, in Ezekiel 28:12-17 is a section that deals with the fall of the devil. Verse 13 describes how he was in the garden of Eden. Verse 14 says he was the anointed cherub, (v. 15), etc., but the context of this section begins with an address to the king of Tyre (v. 12). Yet, right after Ezekiel is told to write to the King of Tyre, he then goes on to describe what the great majority of theologians agree with--a description of the devil's fall. So, we need to look at the context into which the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6. He addressed it to Jesus. Therefore, Psalm 45 is a Messianic Psalm and must in interpreted in light of the NT not the other way around. Nevertheless, the context of this verse follows: "For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou are My son, Today I have begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"? 6And when he again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." 7And of the angels He says "Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire." 8But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom, 9Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions. 10And, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; 11They will perish, but though remainest . . . " (Heb. 1:5-11). To say "God is your throne" doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say, "But to which of the angels did he say, God is your throne." What would that mean? Is God, Jesus' throne? God alone is on His throne, and He isn't a throne for anyone else. Also worth noting here is verse 10: "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands . . . " This is a quote from Psalm 102:24-25 which says, "I say, 'O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, Thy years are throughout all generations. 25Of old Thou didst found the earth; And the heavens are the work of Thy hands.'" Clearly, God is the one being addressed in Psalm 102. It is God who laid the foundations of the earth. Yet, in Heb. 1:10, Jesus is called 'Lord' and is said to be the one who laid the foundation of the earth. This becomes even more interesting when we note that in Isaiah 44:24 it says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone." If God was laying the foundations of the earth alone, that would mean that either Jesus has to be God, second person of the Trinity, who laid the foundation the same as YHWH did; or we have a contradiction in the Bible. Clearly, this section of Hebrews is proclaiming that Jesus is God. Therefore, contextually, it is best to translate Heb. 1:8 as, "Thy Throne, O God. . ." and the Father call Jesus God. The Watchtower organization denies that Jesus is God. Therefore, it cannot permit any verses in the Bible to even hint that Jesus is God. That is why they choose a translation that does not best fit the context or overall theology of the Bible. |
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