shalom4eva:
Guys like I mentioned earlier, I believe Jesus is the only begotten of God (i.e he proceeded out of God) and he his the Lord, but I am still confused about him being God, cos according John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
He was actually praying to the Father here, which is a direct statement from him quoted by John

But people say jesus is a god. Is jesus a true or a false god? Since there is only one true God.

shalom4eva:
Guys like I mentioned earlier, I believe Jesus is the only begotten of God (i.e he proceeded out of God) and he his the Lord

He proceeded from God, just as your spoken or written words are are you and an extension of you, so Jesus Christ, the Word that became flesh by taking on human form, is God, is an extension of God. Jesus Christ proceeded from God. Jesus Christ is God projecting Himself out on earth as Jesus Christ. God and Jesus Christ are one. God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God.

shalom4eva:
but I am still confused about him being God, cos according John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
He was actually praying to the Father here, which is a direct statement from him quoted by John

shalom4eva, we've above talked about God and Jesus Christ are one, that God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God. Now, John 17:3 is merely confirming that God sent Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ to earth

Jesus Christ didnt really have to make those comment in John 17:1-26, but they were made #1, for posterity sake. #2, to lay down a guide how to relate with God the Father and #3, Jesus was living and behaving with examples with things like showing the disciples how to praying to God

Hairyrapunzel:
But people say Jesus is a god. Is jesus a true or a false god? Since there is only one true God.

Jesus is both god and God. Jesus is a true god and at same time the one true God too.

shalom4eva:
Guys like I mentioned earlier, I believe Jesus is the only begotten of God (i.e he proceeded out of God) and he his the Lord, but I am still confused about him being God, cos according John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
He was actually praying to the Father here, which is a direct statement from him quoted by John

Hello there.

I'll start with your obvious confusion.

[3]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3 NASB

First, the Lord Jesus did NOT say here that He too is not God. In fact, His equating knowing the Father with knowing Himself too is pretty much proof that He is God as well.

Second, the Lord Jesus came to Earth as a Man. During the First Advent, He "voided" Himself of His Deity (Philippians 2:7), that is, He did not take advantage of His Deity: He lived as a true Human Being Who depended on God the Father for everything. That did not mean that He was not God any more than a king's temporary divesture of his royal prerogatives means that he is no longer king. He just did not use His Deity during His First Advent.

The reason for this is that the Lord Jesus came to reveal God to us. He came to bring us back home to God. To do that, He had to be like us and show us how we ought to behave toward God by setting an example for us (Hebrews 2:9-18). For this to work, the Eternal Plan of God had to have Someone play the role of God to us, that is, Someone had to represent the Majesty and Awesomeness of God to us. That was the role that the One the Bible calls the Father played and still plays. He is the "Face" of God to us, in a manner of speaking. That is why the Lord Jesus could become a Man to reconcile us to God: namely, because the Father represents the Godhead in this manner to us.

Now, if we read all the way through John 17, it becomes abundantly clear that the Lord Jesus was most certainly not denying that He was Deity. In fact, He was claiming it rather emphatically as you will see in verses 3, 5, and 24.

As for your statement that the Lord Jesus was "begotten" of God or that He "proceeded out of God," you may be referring to

[18]No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:18 NASB

The Greek word there, which is translated "only begotten" actually is an idiom that means "unique." It has nothing to do with origin. The Bible does not teach either that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by God, or that He "proceeded out of" anything at all. His flesh or humanity was born by Mary, but it was created by God, not birthed by Him in any way. His Deity, on the other hand, has always existed. It never proceeded from anything at all. So, it is not biblical at all to say that the Lord Jesus was begotten by God or that He proceeded out of God in any way that implies that His Deity has an origin. It does not. His flesh was created like all flesh is, and it is only because it is that He is Son in an actual sense, rather than a symbolic one.

solite3:
excellent bro, keep it up.

Thank you for your kind words.

shalom4eva:
Guys like I mentioned earlier, I believe Jesus is the only begotten of God (i.e he proceeded out of God) and he his the Lord, but I am still confused about him being God, cos according John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
He was actually praying to the Father here, which is a direct statement from him quoted by John

Ihedinobi3:
Hello there.

I'll start with your obvious confusion.

As for your statement that the Lord Jesus was "begotten" of God or that He "proceeded out of God," you may be referring to

[18]No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:18 NASB

The Greek word there, which is translated "only begotten" actually is an idiom that means "unique." It has nothing to do with origin. The Bible does not teach either that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by God, or that He "proceeded out of" anything at all. His flesh or humanity was born by Mary, but it was created by God, not birthed by Him in any way. His Deity, on the other hand, has always existed. It never proceeded from anything at all. So, it is not biblical at all to say that the Lord Jesus was begotten by God or that He proceeded out of God in any way that implies that His Deity has an origin. It does not. His flesh was created like all flesh is, and it is only because it is that He is Son in an actual sense, rather than a symbolic one.

"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

"Exerchomai" is the Greek original word translated as "proceeded forth". By definition, it means, to go or come out of, with mention of the place out of which one goes, or of the point from which one departs. John 8:42 above, makes no mistake, where from Jesus proceeded forth and came from.

shalom4eva, Jesus Christ is God and even god sef, just as I've earlier said and especially if that's how or a way Hairyrapunzel understands to put it.

No, I am not shalom4eva, implying that Jesus and God are the same entity, but I am emphatically saying that Jesus and God are the same entity.

shalom4eva, listen and watch this. I put on different attire colours to reflect my mood and image I am trying to project across. I could put on a red dress to make a statement that I am fiery, vibrant and lively. The colours are not me, they are images reflecting certain aspects of me. It's the same with God, the maleness and femaleness is not God, they are just constructs made in the image of God. God really isnt male nor female

We all know what kind of image one is projecting when wearing black colours, could be mourning or trying to look sexy

The "the only begotten" means the only person uniquely gotten this way. The phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother, like women do.

shalom4eva, God is formless. God is a Spirit, and so has no form. God however does have masculine and feminine distinctive personalities plus characteristics associated with man and woman

Before you step and slip on my "God is formless" banana skin comment, let me make myself clearer with the comment, by adding to it, that God is shapeless and formless like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. When you pour water into a drum, it becomes the drum of water. That is why when Moses asked God who should he say sent him, if asked by the Israelites, God said to him, say, I AM I AM sent you.

I AM I AM, in that narrative, means I shall be that I shall be, also means whatever it is necessary for God to be, that, God will be. God willl be a pillar of cloud in the day and become a pillar of fire to give them light at night. God is formless, yet God can take on any form. I know it sounds like an oxymoron thing to say it that way, but God, though truly is formless, can manifest Himself in any form, just as in that Nebuchadnezzar fiery furnace and etcetera

Ihedinobi3:

Hello there.

I'll start with your obvious confusion.

[3]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3 NASB

First, the Lord Jesus did NOT say here that He too is not God. In fact, His equating knowing the Father with knowing Himself too is pretty much proof that He is God as well.

Second, the Lord Jesus came to Earth as a Man. During the First Advent, He "voided" Himself of His Deity (Philippians 2:7), that is, He did not take advantage of His Deity: He lived as a true Human Being Who depended on God the Father for everything. That did not mean that He was not God any more than a king's temporary divesture of his royal prerogatives means that he is no longer king. He just did not use His Deity during His First Advent.

The reason for this is that the Lord Jesus came to reveal God to us. He came to bring us back home to God. To do that, He had to be like us and show us how we ought to behave toward God by setting an example for us (Hebrews 2:9-18). For this to work, the Eternal Plan of God had to have Someone play the role of God to us, that is, Someone had to represent the Majesty and Awesomeness of God to us. That was the role that the One the Bible calls the Father played and still plays. He is the "Face" of God to us, in a manner of speaking. That is why the Lord Jesus could become a Man to reconcile us to God: namely, because the Father represents the Godhead in this manner to us.

Now, if we read all the way through John 17, it becomes abundantly clear that the Lord Jesus was most certainly not denying that He was Deity. In fact, He was claiming it rather emphatically as you will see in verses 3, 5, and 24.

As for your statement that the Lord Jesus was "begotten" of God or that He "proceeded out of God," you may be referring to

[18]No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:18 NASB

The Greek word there, which is translated "only begotten" actually is an idiom that means "unique." It has nothing to do with origin. The Bible does not teach either that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by God, or that He "proceeded out of" anything at all. His flesh or humanity was born by Mary, but it was created by God, not birthed by Him in any way. His Deity, on the other hand, has always existed. It never proceeded from anything at all. So, it is not biblical at all to say that the Lord Jesus was begotten by God or that He proceeded out of God in any way that implies that His Deity has an origin. It does not. His flesh was created like all flesh is, and it is only because it is that He is Son in an actual sense, rather than a symbolic one.

PS.: Regarding John 8:42 and other similar passages, as the Lord Himself said, He proceeded from God because the Father sent Him to the Earth to die for our sins. That is, the Lord Jesus was exemplifying to us the perfectly obedient servant of God that we are all supposed to be as His creatures. As He always said, He did not seek His Own Will but the Will of the Father. That is how we ought to be as creatures.

If the Lord Jesus never put on flesh and become a real human being just like us, we would never know exactly what a perfect human being is like (John 15:22). So His description of "proceeding from" and "coming forth" from God are just as the Bible itself says literally: because the Father sent the Son into the world, not because His Deity had any kind of origin or because His flesh was birthed in any way by God. As Deity, the Lord Jesus has no beginning and no end. He has always existed together with the Father and the Holy Spirit. None of Them "proceeded from" anything, certainly not from Each Other. They have always been, just as Their Name YHVH or YHWH, which is explained as "I Will Be What I Am" by Them to Moses, demonstrates. That is, They are not subject to change at all. Time does not affect God, nor does circumstance. He is always the same, not least because He invented time too. That is, in fact, what it means to be God: a perfect, absolute immunity to the influence of all external factors, a philosophical concept called "self-existence," that is, God does not owe His existence to anything outside of Himself, and He is completely unaffected by anything outside of Himself. This is why He does not change. Compare Hebrews 13:8; Revelation 1:4; 21:6; 22:13.

Ihedinobi3:
Hello there.

I'll start with your obvious confusion.

As for your statement that the Lord Jesus was "begotten" of God or that He "proceeded out of God," you may be referring to

[18]No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:18 NASB

The Greek word there, which is translated "only begotten" actually is an idiom that means "unique." It has nothing to do with origin. The Bible does not teach either that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by God, or that He "proceeded out of" anything at all. His flesh or humanity was born by Mary, but it was created by God, not birthed by Him in any way. His Deity, on the other hand, has always existed. It never proceeded from anything at all. So, it is not biblical at all to say that the Lord Jesus was begotten by God or that He proceeded out of God in any way that implies that His Deity has an origin. It does not. His flesh was created like all flesh is, and it is only because it is that He is Son in an actual sense, rather than a symbolic one.

"¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
²He was in the beginning with God.
³All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
⁴In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
⁵And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it"
- John 1:1-5

The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by Mary, and that He "proceeded" forth and came from God.

Jesu proceeded from God, just as your spoken or written words here on Nairaland proceeded from you, they always from the word go are you and they a full extension of you, so is Jesus Christ, the Word that became flesh by taking on human form, is God, is an extension of God.

Jesus Christ, who is the Word, proceeded from God. Jesus Christ is God projecting Himself out on earth as Jesus Christ. God and Jesus Christ are one. God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God. God had all this planned even before the foundation of the world, that He will come and appear on earth as Jesus Christ.

It is similar to, there is one H₂O, but when solid, its static and hard, when liquid, its fluid and flows, and when gaseous, its free, invisible, untouchable etcetera

Jesus was not created by God, rather God projected Himself out into Mary for Him to be birthed on earth, and come to legally exist as a human being on earth for the purpose and plan of redemption He needed to carry out

Jesus is the, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, as proven in John 1:1-2 above, and it cancels out anyone's earlier statement like in above quote, of Jesus being created by God. How can God create God, Himself, when God is already in existence, hmm? That's just impossicant, but God projecting Himself, isnt impossicant. Capisce?

That Jesus said that He proceeded out of God is a statement of fact. It doesnt anyway implies that His Deity has an origin nor does it take away from Him being Self Existent. Jesus is God aseity, period.

MuttleyLaff:


"¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
²He was in the beginning with God.
³All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
⁴In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
⁵And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it"
- John 1:1-5

The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by Mary, and that He "proceeded" forth and came from God.

Jesu proceeded from God, just as your spoken or written words here on Nairaland proceeded from you, they always from the word go are you and they a full extension of you, so is Jesus Christ, the Word that became flesh by taking on human form, is God, is an extension of God.

Jesus Christ, who is the Word, proceeded from God. Jesus Christ is God projecting Himself out on earth as Jesus Christ. God and Jesus Christ are one. God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God. God had all this planned even before the foundation of the world, that He will come and appear on earth has Jesus Christ.

It is similar to, there is one H₂O, but when solid, its static and hard, when liquid, its fluid and flows, and when gaseous, its free, invisible, untouchable etcetera

Jesus was not created by God, rather God projected Himself out into Mary for Him to be birthed on earth, and come to legally exist as a human being on earth for the purpose and plan of redemption He needed to carry out

Jesus is the, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, as proven in John 1:1-2 above, and it cancels out anyone's earlier statement like in above quote, of Jesus being created by God. How can God create God, Himself, when Gos is already in existence, hmm? That's just impossicant, but God projecting Himself, isnt impossicant. Capisce?

That Jesus said that He proceeded out of God is a statement of fact. It doesnt anyway implies that His Deity has an origin nor does it take away from Him being Self Existent. Jesus is God aseity, period.

I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by constantly quoting, referencing and name-dropping me all the time, but I really wish you would stop. I don't know when it will be clear to you that you and I are not the same. You have no respect for the Truth, but I have every respect for it. You make stuff up. I don't. You quote the Bible to prove that it agrees with you, I quote it to show where I got my ideas from.

You will never succeed at "correcting" what I believe. You will never succeed at getting me to join your "one-man army," falsely so called.

So, why don't you just leave me out of your madness? I can see how you would not since the Bible is not sacred enough for you to leave it out of your fictions, and what am I compared to God Himself? But it is really wearisome. I'm sure that you can continue to correct and chastise and revel with your fellow "one-man's." They clearly like your constant banter and fights. I can even imagine that they look forward to them at the end of their workday. I do not. I don't like anything about you or your "interpretations" of the Bible. And I have no intention of pretending that I can change them, at least, not while it is so overwhelmingly obvious that you have no respect for the only authoritative piece of literature on earth. So, I will never converse with you regarding anything at all.

I'm sure this will not stop you from continuing to harass me with your attention, but I certainly hope it will demonstrate clearly to everyone who cares that you and I are not at all alike or friends or compatriots or fellow soldiers or anything like that. I have no idea if you're even saved, but it doesn't matter at all if you have no respect for the Bible.

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by constantly quoting, referencing and name-dropping me all the time, but I really wish you would stop. I don't know when it will be clear to you that you and I are not the same. You have no respect for the Truth, but I have every respect for it. You make stuff up. I don't. You quote the Bible to prove that it agrees with you, I quote it to show where I got my ideas from.

You will never succeed at "correcting" what I believe. You will never succeed at getting me to join your "one-man army," falsely so called.

So, why don't you just leave me out of your madness? I can see how you would not since the Bible is not sacred enough for you to leave it out of your fictions, and what am I compared to God Himself? But it is really wearisome. I'm sure that you can continue to correct and chastise and revel with your fellow "one-man's." They clearly like your constant banter and fights. I can even imagine that they look forward to them at the end of their workday. I do not. I don't like anything about you or your "interpretations" of the Bible. And I have no intention of pretending that I can change them, at least, not while it is so overwhelmingly obvious that you have no respect for the only authoritative piece of literature on earth. So, I will never converse with you regarding anything at all.

I'm sure this will not stop you from continuing to harass me with your attention, but I certainly hope it will demonstrate clearly to everyone who cares that you and I are not at all alike or friends or compatriots or fellow soldiers or anything like that. I have no idea if you're even saved, but it doesn't matter at all if you have no respect for the Bible.

Smh, it is heart breaking how the people you were once so close with, encouraging each other, nudging each other on, exchanging pleasantries with, can become an all of sudden stranger you don’t seem to anymore know. I normally don't kiss and tell, but reserve my rights to do so Ihedinobi3.

Nothing is as dangerous as an ignorant believer, and one who makes out to know, when in actual fact, it turns out knows nothing, is just plainly ignorant and incapable of owning up to making obvious minor and/or careless mistake comments, thus rendering him/her stripped of any ounce of being trusted and believed in.

Some people need to pronto lose their sacred cow status. Ihedinobi3, my counter comments and/or rebuttals responding to your comments are not for your benefit, rather its for the readership, so please lighten up, just enjoy life, smile more, laugh more, and don't get so worked up over good and jolly MuttleyLaff.

MuttleyLaff:
Smh, it is heart breaking how the people you were once so close with, encouraging each other, nudging each other on, exchanging pleasantries with, can become an all of sudden stranger you don’t seem to anymore know. I normally don't kiss and tell, but reserve my rights to do so Ihedinobi3.

Nothing is as dangerous as an ignorant believer, and one who makes out to know, when in actual fact, it turns out knows nothing, is just plainly ignorant and incapable of owning up to making obvious minor and/or careless mistake comments, thus rendering him/her stripped of any ounce of being trusted and believed in.

Some people need to pronto lose their sacred cow status. Ihedinobi3, my counter comments and/or rebuttals responding to your comments are not for your benefit, rather its for the readership, so please lighten up, just enjoy life, smile more, laugh more, and don't get so worked up over good and jolly MuttleyLaff.

But I'm not quite like you. I've said that several times. I do like people. I do want to be liked by people. I do want to have friends. But my loyalty is first to the Truth before it is to anything or anyone else. So, although I certainly look to build friendships wherever possible, I do not quite allow anything that threatens my stand in the Truth or that causes a confusion about my stand to others who may be listening to me. That is why very little is permanent in my life.

We may have started out encouraging each other, but whether or not we would prove to be comrades in the Truth was yet future at the time. It turned out that your attitude to the Truth was different, violently different, from mine. That was not a situation that could carry on indefinitely. So, here we are.

As for ignorant believers who do not acknowledge their own ignorance and cannot be corrected, I could say the exact same thing to you. Of course, as I told you, even an ordinary believer who does not pretend to be a teacher but who has no interest in growing in the Truth cannot be forced to grow, how much less a believer who is a spiritual infant and pretends to be a teacher? What can anyone do in that case? Nothing. You can warn, you can even disassociate from them, but you cannot force them to acknowledge their need for spiritual growth. For that reason, it is best to just leave well enough alone.

As for sacred cows, I have no idea what that has to do with anything. It may be that you have some concept of me that I had no hand in putting into your head. I don't know why anyone would think of me as a sacred cow. I have done my work here on Nairaland with the assumption that both myself and my words would be dismissed by the majority. I did it expecting those who think they know something to challenge me and attempt to prove that they are my betters. As much as I disliked that, I figured I would have to live with it. I try to force nothing on anyone. I try to let those who have demonstrated a complete disinterest in the Truth to believe and do as they please. I've tried to limit myself to answering questions wherever it seemed that there might be a chance that someone would hear me, and to defending my answers so that anyone who can benefit from them is not confused. I've avoided challenging those who offer themselves as teachers unless they insert themselves in situations where someone who is interested in what I have to say may be confused by their interference. I don't see any way in which I have presented myself as any kind of a sacred cow, so that is something you are unilaterally dealing with.

Of course, I know that your constant harassment of me was as much to gain followers for yourself as it was to just try to put us both in the same boat. That is something that I particularly dislike. Your conduct is very reminiscent of Elymas's in Acts. But I don't have the authority of an apostle to stop you from meddling. I do have that of a pastor-teacher to warn you against it. For everyone whom you cause to stumble through your behavior, however well-intentioned you consider yourself to be, there will be an answer from the Lord. For my part, of course, I cannot make anyone believe anything or act any given way, but I can try to give the Truth clearly by answering their questions and defending my answers from meddling like yours. If they choose to listen to you, I can't help it. The loss belongs to both of you. If they do not, the gain is theirs. But it is entirely their choice, not mine, or yours for that matter. But you will have an answer from the Lord for meddling in a young believer's effort to grow in the Truth. And it will not be pleasant.

Ihedinobi3:
Hello there.

I'll start with your obvious confusion.

The Bible does not teach either that the Lord Jesus was "begotten", in the sense of "birthed," by God,
or that He "proceeded out of" anything at all.

His flesh or humanity was born by Mary, but it was created by God, not birthed by Him in any way. His Deity, on the other hand, has always existed. It never proceeded from anything at all.

So, it is not biblical at all to say that the Lord Jesus was begotten by God
or that He proceeded out of God in any way that implies that His Deity has an origin. It does not. His flesh was created like all flesh is, and it is only because it is that He is Son in an actual sense, rather than a symbolic one.

"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
- John 1:14

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]

Luke1:35
And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The above verses stated the 'Holy Thing/One'
Shall be called the Son of God.
Meaning it was what was in Mary that was Holy!! Excluding Mary.
In John1:114 it says the Word became flesh.meaning the Word became flesh in Her.
No mixture of blood or flesh
Christ was unique.

Ihedinobi3:

But I'm not quite like you. I've said that several times. I do like people. I do want to be liked by people. I do want to have friends. But my loyalty is first to the Truth before it is to anything or anyone else. So, although I certainly look to build friendships wherever possible, I do not quite allow anything that threatens my stand in the Truth or that causes a confusion about my stand to others who may be listening to me. That is why very little is permanent in my life.

We may have started out encouraging each other, but whether or not we would prove to be comrades in the Truth was yet future at the time. It turned out that your attitude to the Truth was different, violently different, from mine. That was not a situation that could carry on indefinitely. So, here we are.

As for ignorant believers who do not acknowledge their own ignorance and cannot be corrected, I could say the exact same thing to you. Of course, as I told you, even an ordinary believer who does not pretend to be a teacher but who has no interest in growing in the Truth cannot be forced to grow, how much less a believer who is a spiritual infant and pretends to be a teacher? What can anyone do in that case? Nothing. You can warn, you can even disassociate from them, but you cannot force them to acknowledge their need for spiritual growth. For that reason, it is best to just leave well enough alone.

As for sacred cows, I have no idea what that has to do with anything. It may be that you have some concept of me that I had no hand in putting into your head. I don't know why anyone would think of me as a sacred cow. I have done my work here on Nairaland with the assumption that both myself and my words would be dismissed by the majority. I did it expecting those who think they know something to challenge me and attempt to prove that they are my betters. As much as I disliked that, I figured I would have to live with it. I try to force nothing on anyone. I try to let those who have demonstrated a complete disinterest in the Truth to believe and do as they please. I've tried to limit myself to answering questions wherever it seemed that there might be a chance that someone would hear me, and to defending my answers so that anyone who can benefit from them is not confused. I've avoided challenging those who offer themselves as teachers unless they insert themselves in situations where someone who is interested in what I have to say may be confused by their interference. I don't see any way in which I have presented myself as any kind of a sacred cow, so that is something you are unilaterally dealing with.

Of course, I know that your constant harassment of me was as much to gain followers for yourself as it was to just try to put us both in the same boat. That is something that I particularly dislike. Your conduct is very reminiscent of Elymas's in Acts. But I don't have the authority of an apostle to stop you from meddling. I do have that of a pastor-teacher to warn you against it. For everyone whom you cause to stumble through your behavior, however well-intentioned you consider yourself to be, there will be an answer from the Lord. For my part, of course, I cannot make anyone believe anything or act any given way, but I can try to give the Truth clearly by answering their questions and defending my answers from meddling like yours. If they choose to listen to you, I can't help it. The loss belongs to both of you. If they do not, the gain is theirs. But it is entirely their choice, not mine, or yours for that matter. But you will have an answer from the Lord for meddling in a young believer's effort to grow in the Truth. And it will not be pleasant.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life no one goes to the father except through him.


Watchtower organisation is not the way to salvation. Watchtower organisation is not the truth and watchtower organisation is not the way to any life.

Just take it from me your jehovah is not coming to destroy wicked/worldly people because they refused to join watchtower organisation and unquestionably obey the 8 old uninspired, imperfect and fallible men who rule the organisation called gb and accept that they are the only channel of communication between God and man today.

Whether you like it or not the only place you will see watchtower organisation is inside your magazines and inside your head/imagination.

Truth ke? Lol
Truth that will become false tomorrow once gb says it should become false lol.

You will still die waiting for armageddon just like your founding fathers died. You will even die from heartbreak self.

Hairyrapunzel:


Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life no one goes to the father except through him.


Watchtower organisation is not the way to salvation. Watchtower organisation is not the truth and watchtower organisation is not the way to any life.

Just take it from me your jehovah is not coming to destroy wicked/worldly people because they refused to join watchtower organisation and unquestionably obey the 8 old uninspired, imperfect and fallible men who rule the organisation called gb and accept that they are the only channel of communication between God and man today.

Whether you like it or not the only place you will see watchtower organisation is inside your magazines and inside your head/imagination.

Truth ke? Lol
Truth that will become false tomorrow once gb says it should become false lol.

You will still die waiting for armageddon just like your founding fathers died. You will even die from heartbreak self.

Well, that's certainly the first time I remember anyone accusing me to my face of being a Jehovah's Witness.

ichuka:
Luke1:35
And the angel answered and said to her,
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The above verses stated the 'Holy Thing/One' shall be called the Son of God. Meaning it was what was in Mary that was Holy!! Excluding Mary.
In John 1:14 it says the Word became flesh. meaning the Word became flesh in Her. No mixture of blood or flesh
Christ was unique.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
- John 3:16

"By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:
and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son"
- Hebrews 11:17

ichuka, you proposed John 1:14, that says, the Word became flesh, meaning the Word became flesh in Mary and that no mixture of blood or flesh. OK, ichuka nwanne, lets with the begotten Son in John 3:16 and the begotten son in Hebrews 11:17, break all this matter nicely down together, hmm?

ichuka, Christ is unique, actually means Christ is an one-off and "the only begotten Son" means Jesus Christ is the one and only human being thats come to into existence this way. The "the only begotten Son" phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother does, like we have women do, but means this is an exclusive, Jesus is the only brought into being in a very unusual or remarkable manner.

ichuka, now, let's shift attention to Hebrews 11:17. ichuka, Abraham already has had Ishmael, thirteen years earlier than Isaac, so why is the Bible calling Isaac Abraham's only begotten son. The reason is because Jesus and Isaac share the uniqueness strand.

Isaac's coming into being and birthed just like Jesus' birth, is out of the ordinary. Isaac is the product of an impotent father and a menopause mother. In reality and even in theory, it is impossicant that an impotent father and a menopause mother would possibly give birth to a child, but Abraham and Sarah's case is different, and so how their child Isaac, the son of promise, birth circumstance is unique, and why Isaac is referred to as Abraham's only begotten son, inspite of having an elder brother Ishmael.

Jesus coming into being and birthed without an involvement of any earthly father in His birth equation, but only God's, is what qualified Him to be called the "the only begotten Son" of God. The sort or type of birth is not just only in a class by itself, but is unrepeatable, meaning, not to be done or seen again.

ichuka, you're correct in saying no mixture of blood or flesh, because firstly, all babies get their blood from their father, not their mother, but Jesus' birth, remember has no earthly father involvement. Now secondly, the mother’s blood never mingles with that of the fetus, because one of the placenta's jobs is to make sure blood from the mother and fetus never mixes. Jesus' blood is a unique blood, it is a God breathed AB+ve, universal blood type. Alleulia!

MuttleyLaff:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
- John 3:16

"By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:
and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son"
- Hebrews 11:17

ichuka, you proposed John 1:14, that says, the Word became flesh, meaning the Word became flesh in Mary and that no mixture of blood or flesh. OK, ichuka nwanne, lets with the begotten Son in John 3:16 and the begotten son in Hebrews 11:17, break all this matter nicely down together, hmm?

ichuka, Christ is unique, actually means Christ is an one-off and "the only begotten Son" means Jesus Christ is the one and only human being thats come to into existence this way. The "the only begotten Son" phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother does, like we have women do, but means this is an exclusive, Jesus is the only brought into being in a very unusual or remarkable manner.

ichuka, now, let's shift attention to Hebrews 11:17. ichuka, Abraham already has had Ishmael, thirteen years earlier than Isaac, so why is the Bible calling Isaac Abraham's only begotten son. The reason is because Jesus and Isaac share the uniqueness strand.

Isaac's coming into being and birthed just like Jesus' birth, is out of the ordinary. Isaac is the product of an impotent father and a menopause mother. In reality and even in theory, it is impossicant that an impotent father and a menopause mother would possibly give birth to a child, but Abraham and Sarah's case is different, and so how their child Isaac, the son of promise, birth circumstance is unique, and why Isaac is referred to as Abraham's only begotten son, inspite of having an elder brother Ishmael.

Jesus coming into being and birthed without an involvement of any earthly father in His birth equation, but only God's, is what qualified Him to be called the "the only begotten Son" of God. The sort or type of birth is not just only in a class by itself, but is unrepeatable, meaning, not to be done or seen again.

ichuka, you're correct in saying no mixture of blood or flesh, because firstly, all babies get their blood from their father, not their mother, but Jesus' birth, remember has no earthly father involvement. Now secondly, the mother’s blood never mingles with that of the fetus, because one of the placenta's jobs is to make sure blood from the mother and fetus never mixes. Jesus' blood is a unique blood, it is a God breathed AB+ve, universal blood type. Alleulia!

***Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only
used of only sons or daughters (viewed in
relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten
son of God
King James Word Usage - Total: 9
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1"

***Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only
used of only sons or daughters (viewed in
relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten
son of God
King James Word Usage - Total: 9
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1"


**
Muttleylaff=" why Isaac is referred to as Abraham's only begotten son, inspite of having an elder brother Ishmael?"


Because Isaac is the ONLY CHILD and the First legitimate born of his Father who receive the privilege that was NEVER given to Ishmael or other children of Abraham. (Heb11:17. Likewise ,king David was begotten among the sons of Jesse. Psalm 89:20,27. Likewise, Jesus Christ among other sons of God. John 3:16).

** Muttleylaff=
*1)
"Christ is an one-off and "the only begotten Son" means Jesus Christ is the one and only human being thats come to into existence this way.
*11)
The "the only begotten Son" phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus,"
Muttleylaff *1) & *11) some what CONTRADICTs.
** John3:16 " God gave his only begotten son" , (NO CONNECTION TO Jesus human birth by Mary). Romans 8:3.John17:1-3,24.
In other words, God gave the only son HE HAS BEGOTTEN with glory before the founding of the world.


God gave "the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:15 (KJV).

****FACT:
Greek monogenes (begotten) does NOT exist outside the context of Father and son relationship. In other words, you can Never be "ONLY BEGOTTEN" when you are not the TRUE SON of your Father.
You MUST be Son in the strict sense of the word "SON", before you can be "only begotten" with privileges attached to your "only begotten" status .
Jesus Christ says he is God's son in the spiritual realm. Rev 3:5,12-14,21.
I stand with Jesus and believe what he says in Rev 3:5,12-14,21.

Ihedinobi3:

Well, that's certainly the first time I remember anyone accusing me to my face of being a Jehovah's Witness.

Last last we know your jehovah will not come destroy any wicked/worldly/evil/unrighteous/pagans/non jws for not joining watchtower organisation and obeying the 8 uninspired, fallible' imperfect old men who err in doctrinal matters and organisational direction and accepting that they are the only channel of communication between God and man today so you and your colleagues will live forever on paradise earth and inherit properties of non jws.

The only place your much awaited armageddon will be only inside your head (imagination) and in your watchtower magazines.

You will die waiting just like your founding fathers died. It's a cycle

Hairyrapunzel:



Last last we know your jehovah will not come destroy any wicked/worldly/evil/unrighteous/pagans/non jws for not joining watchtower organisation and obeying the 8 uninspired, fallible' imperfect old men who err in doctrinal matters and organisational direction and accepting that they are the only channel of communication between God and man today so you and your colleagues will live forever on paradise earth and inherit properties of non jws.

The only place your much awaited armageddon will be only inside your head (imagination) and in your watchtower magazines.

You will die waiting just like your founding fathers died. It's a cycle

you are barking at the wrong tree, Ihedinobi is not a Jehovah witness.

solite3:
you are barking at the wrong tree, Ihedinobi is not a Jehovah witness.

Ok. The way he has been mentioning the truth.

solite3:
you are barking at the wrong tree, Ihedinobi is not a Jehovah witness.

Thank you very much for correcting him, solite3. I appreciate the help. I wonder if it was worth the effort though, since my posts on this thread alone should have been enough to prove emphatically that I could not possibly be a Jehovah's Witness. And if they were unclear, my profile should have made it immediately obvious. I'm afraid people like him are usually on forums to find people to attack for whatever excuse most immediately appeals to them.

Hairyrapunzel:


Ok. The way he has been mentioning the truth.

I know jws always mentioned the truth but have no Idea of what it is. I know its a genuine mistake but next time just check the persons previous thread or ask him him some foundamental biblical truth bro dont be quick to attack.

Ihedinobi3:

Thank you very much for correcting him, solite3. I appreciate the help. I wonder if it was worth the effort though, since my posts on this thread alone should have been enough to prove emphatically that I could not possibly be a Jehovah's Witness. And if they were unclear, my profile should have made it immediately obvious. I'm afraid people like him are usually on forums to find people to attack for whatever excuse most immediately appeals to them.

Dont be offended sometimes it happens to me too but sooner or later they will find out you are not who they think you are.

Janosky:
***Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech mon-og-en-ace' Adjective

Definition
single of its kind, only, used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
King James Word Usage - Total: 9
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1"

Janosky:
** Muttleylaff=" why Isaac is referred to as Abraham's only begotten son, inspite of having an elder brother Ishmael?"

Because Isaac is the ONLY CHILD and the First legitimate born of his Father who receive the privilege that was NEVER given to Ishmael or other children of Abraham. (Heb11:17. Likewise ,king David was begotten among the sons of Jesse. Psalm 89:20,27. Likewise, Jesus Christ among other sons of God. John 3:16).

** Muttleylaff=
*1)
"Christ is an one-off and "the only begotten Son" means Jesus Christ is the one and only human being thats come to into existence this way.
*11)
The "the only begotten Son" phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus,"

Muttleylaff *1) & *11) some what CONTRADICTs.
** John3:16 " God gave his only begotten son" , (NO CONNECTION TO Jesus human birth by Mary). Romans 8:3.John17:1-3,24.
In other words, God gave the only son HE HAS BEGOTTEN with glory before the founding of the world.
God gave "the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:15 (KJV).

****FACT:
Greek monogenes (begotten) does NOT exist outside the context of Father and son relationship. In other words, you can Never be "ONLY BEGOTTEN" when you are not the TRUE SON of your Father.

You MUST be Son in the strict sense of the word "SON", before you can be "only begotten" with privileges attached to your "only begotten" status .
Jesus Christ says He is God's Son in the spiritual realm. Rev 3:5,12-14,21.
I stand with Jesus and believe what He says in Rev 3:5,12-14,21.

MuttleyLaff:
Though Jesus was God, He did not think of equality with God, as something to cling to.
Instead, He gave up his divine privileges. He took the humble position of a servant and was born as a human being, and so God appeared on earth, in human form, as in, the person of Jesus Christ, His Son

God can send Himself, did send Himself to earth, in the form of Jesus Christ
Janosky, God simultaneously can be in more than one place at a time (i.e. God can be in Heaven and on earth, at the same time)
Note Jesus didnt correct people that addressed Him as God, for example, where and when said: "My Lord, My God"

Christ is the visible image of the invisible God
What other logical way, effective, reasonable, legal and conventional means, did you expect God to send Himself to earth hmm? If not to be born like every other human being is born into earth

God was not and never was in harm's way, He couldnt handle
Its often said, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself
Something to be done right is exactly what it's all about and so what God did.
This is a matter of the classsic DIY aka Do-It-Yourself.

God looked for someone who could build walls
or looked for someone to stand in the breach in His presence on behalf of the world so that it won't be destroyed, but He found no one
and so God is lumbered with, doing a classic Do-It-Yourself by sending Himself to carry out the redemptive work.

This will explain what the bible said and/or is saying about "begotten"
The word translated as "begotten", is the greek word "monogene"
"monogene", means, one and only or better still, one of a kind

Now the word "monogene", is a combination of the root words:
"mono" (one or only) and "genos" (of a class or kind)
hence "begotten", in the context, or "monogene" in the context means "the only of its kind"

Now, "monogene" occurred also, when similarly used over Isaac,
and that is where and when Isaac was referred to, as only son, even when Abraham already had an older son, Ishmael

Isaac was unique, was one and only or one of a kind son. Unique in the sense that, an impotent man and menopaused woman had a child, the promised son, Isaac (i.e. child in a class of its own, this miracle never again has been repeated)

To just clear each other, "begotten" in the Jesus' context isn’t about procreation or some fantasied sexual intercourse

Jesus, is the last Adam, and second man. The first man Adam became a living soul, whereas, Jesus, the last Adam, became a life-giving spirit

The first man, Adam, is of the earth, earthy, came from earth; while the second man, Jesus Christ is from heaven, came from heaven. Alleluia.

There is no contradictions Janosky. I hope that after you've seriously, unhurriedly and carefully have gone over my quoted comment immediately above reproduced here, as it was taken from another thread and my following added comment below, you find there was no contradiction(s)

Janosky, John 3:16, that I previously on this thread quoted originally was written in Greek, hence why "monogene" is used for uniqueness
The uniqueness of Isaac, originally was written in Hebrew, and so why the Greek "monogene" was not used for where the uniqueness of Isaac is mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament

The birth of Isaac, nonetheless, is unique, one of a kind and as promised. It is "monogene"
The birth of Jesus as well, equally is unique, one of a kind and as promised too. It too, in its own right, is "monogene" as well

The birth of Jesus is unique and one of a kind,
because God, became God, the Father, after physically projecting Himself to earth, as God, the Son, whom Jesus Christ is

Janosky, just like you do, I too, stand with Jesus and believe what He says in Revelation 3:5,12-14 and 21, but let me ask you a simple easy, direct and straighforward question erhn Janosky?

If God is infinite, if God is non spatial and if God is without a clear shape or definite structure, as in meaning, if God, has no outward form or distinctive appearance, how do you expect to recognise God and benefit from the blessings in Revelation 3:5,12-14 and 21?

solite3:
I know jws always mentioned the truth but have no Idea of what it is. I know its a genuine mistake but next time just check the persons previous thread or ask him him some foundamental biblical truth bro dont be quick to attack.

Ok thanks.

solite3:
Dont be offended sometimes it happens to me too but sooner or later they will find out you are not who they think you are.

Thank you, dear solite3. I have been a little bit out of sorts lately, so I am sure I could have handled the situation better. Thank you for holding the fort.

Hairyrapunzel:


Ok. The way he has been mentioning the truth.

Solite3 has told you the right way to go about things. I see that you have been fighting with Jehovah's Witnesses for a while now, so it seems like you are a bit "in the zone," and you'll shoot anything that moves. That may have been why you did not pay attention to anything I said.

I have said on this thread that the Lord Jesus is God Himself. I wholeheartedly believe in the Trinity as revealed in the Bible. So, I cannot be a Jehovah's Witness, since this is one of their major points of departure from the Truth.

Yes, I use the word "truth" a lot, and it is for good reason. Much is said in the name of truth, but there is only one Truth, and it is whatever we find in the Bible. Outside of that are lies and speculation. The whole business of life on earth is for us to take a stand with respect to the Truth revealed in the Bible. You are exactly right that the Lord Jesus is the Truth, and the Bible is all about Him. So, we are all here on earth essentially to decide whether we will be loyal to Jesus Christ or whether we will continue to rebel against Him. That is actually why I use the term as much as I do.

If you have questions about what I believe and teach, feel free to ask them. I don't hold anybody's questions against them, although I do make a difference with dishonest questions that are asked to put teachers on the spot. Just understand that until you can be certain that someone is not willing to respect the Bible and follow whatever it says, regardless how they or others may feel about it, you may find yourself attacking God's people whenever you attack them.

MuttleyLaff:




There is no contradictions Janosky. I hope that after you've seriously, unhurriedly and carefully have gone over my quoted comment immediately above reproduced here, as it was taken from another thread and my following added comment below, you find there was no contradiction(s)

Janosky, John 3:16, that I previously on this thread quoted originally was written in Greek, hence why "monogene" is used for uniqueness
The uniqueness of Isaac, originally was written in Hebrew, and so why the Greek "monogene" was not used for where the uniqueness of Isaac is mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament

The birth of Isaac, nonetheless, is unique, one of a kind and as promised. It is "monogene"
The birth of Jesus as well, equally is unique, one of a kind and as promised too. It too, in its own right, is "monogene" as well

The birth of Jesus is unique and one of a kind,
because God, became God, the Father, after physically projecting Himself to earth, as God, the Son, whom Jesus Christ is

Janosky, just like you do, I too, stand with Jesus and believe what He says in Revelation 3:5,12-14 and 21, but let me ask you a simple easy, direct and straighforward question erhn Janosky?

If God is infinite, if God is non spatial and if God is without a clear shape or definite structure, as in meaning, if God, has no outward form or distinctive appearance, how do you expect to recognise God and benefit from the blessings in Revelation 3:5,12-14 and 21?

***Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only, USED OF ONLY SONS AND DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS)

used of Christ, denotes the only
begotten son of God (VIEWED IN RELATION TO HIS FATHER).


Muttleylaff , 'monogenes' does NOT exist outside the context of Father and son relationship between the Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ in the physical and the spiritual.
John20:17. Rev 3:5,12-14,21.
Rev 3:5,12-14,21 Jesus REFUTES the Trinity.

Psalms 89:20,27. 2:7. (Heb 1:5) David was "only begotten," what's the unusual circumstances of his birth? None !!

" Only Begotten" is Strictly about special privileges received by ONLY one son in comparison to his other brothers/sisters.


Who said "God, has no outward form or distinctive appearance"? , I never said that.
Flesh can not dwell in heaven. it's strictly for spiritual beings.

Janosky:



***Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only, USED OF ONLY SONS AND DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS)

used of Christ, denotes the only
begotten son of God (VIEWED IN RELATION TO HIS FATHER).


Muttleylaff , 'monogenes' does NOT exist outside the context of Father and son relationship between the Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ in the physical and the spiritual.
John20:17. Rev 3:5,12-14,21.
Rev 3:5,12-14,21 Jesus REFUTES the Trinity.

Psalms 89:20,27. 2:7. (Heb 1:5) David was "only begotten," what's the unusual circumstances of his birth? None !!

" Only Begotten" is Strictly about special privileges received by ONLY one son in comparison to his other brothers/sisters.


Who said "God, has no outward form or distinctive appearance"? , I never said that.
Flesh can not dwell in heaven. it's strictly for spiritual beings.

If we ask you to show us the passage that jesus had brothers you will hide.
All these are your assumptions o. No bible passage explicitly stating your assumption



Just to justify your belief that the 8 old men in new York called gb are the only channel of communication between God and man today. I no fit laugh

You will even lie on top bible to justify your non biblical assumptions lol

Hairyrapunzel:



If we ask you to show us the passage that jesus had brothers you will hide.
All these are your assumptions o. No bible passage explicitly stating your assumption



Just to justify your belief that the 8 old men in new York called gb are the only channel of communication between God and man today. I no fit laugh

You will even lie on top bible to justify your non biblical assumptions lol

You go vomit POO wey dey inside your deluded brain tire.... Pls continue..... Lol.

Janosky:

You go vomit POO wey dey inside your deluded brain tire.... Pls continue..... Lol.

It's not poo na. Your jehovah isn't coming to destroy or slaughter non jws so you can live forever on paradise earth/new system. It's only inside your magazines and inside your head/imagination that it will happen..

You will die waiting for armageddon just like your founding fathers. It's a continuous cycle

Don't let depression kill you o.