chloride6:





Govt uses Tbills to fund expenditure and the rest, nobody stopped you from buying Tbills, you were stopped from buying OMO Bill's which is CBN and not FG liability..

There is no school of economic thought that explicitly links inflation to interest rates..Interest rates were kept high for 1 reason only..to attract foreign investment in local bills that's why foreign investors can buy and you can.

Your inflation can be through the roof and intest rates low and the converse too can hold..

6 years ago, interest rates were around 12% and inflation was single digit, why didnt interest rates become single digits since according to you, inflation and interest rates are inextricably linked..

Interest are essentially an MPC tool used to achieve whatever the CBN wants..

Nigeria's economic terrain had always been tough, this is not an excuse too..

PFA's under the multi funding structure were mandated by Pencom to deploy a part of RSA fund 1 and 2 to equities, they refused..

Why free t Bill's money...

You're still ignorant. When inflation is high and the government wants to curtail spending and credit, interest rates become high as well. Rates were high because inflation was high. That was our situation. While interest can be be used to attract capital, that's not their primary focus. Plus, the real return on investment is a paltry 1-3%

So to you, the stock market is "real sector"? Lol. Your name should be Jon Snow. What productive activities are your funds put to? Excluding new listings via IPO and maybe private placement (which doesn't require listing), there's none. It's a mechanism for transfer of assets and associated rights from seller to the buyer.

When the terrain is tough, businesses have a higher chance of failing. Purchasing power of your target market has fallen and is undergoing further squeezing due to the border closure. Do you know how many taxes and levies businesses are subjected to without corresponding incentives and rebates; taxes that aren't even put to good use? Should the banks then lend to people who cannot pay back due to govt policies?

chloride6:


You are quick to mention that banks can buy OMO Bill's. but you forget that they are currently being heavily penalised for low loan to deposit ratio..

Its is your responsibility to do due Diligence before Investing, people who bought GTB and Dangote are not crying, so stop making it sound like the while market is flawed..

You bought GTB at N50 now it's N26 or so and they won't cry? Lol

chloride6:




Emefiele has really dealt with people..

You guys dont seems to understand what this thing is doing to the economy sha.

Let me put it in perspective for you.

If you have N2bn and you invest it in Tbills at 14% yield, you will get N280m without lifting a finger..

So why would you create businesses and jobs?

Because of your less than N50m in T Bill's you want interest rates to be high..

T Bill's corrupted everyone and made us lazy..

Some banks just forgot about loans and focused on treasury..

Zenith bank was making N400bn after tax just from T Bill's...

Infact you are more likely to get a loan from Citi Bank than you are from Zenith Bank...

High Interest Rates made your pension managers lazy.

They refused to buy equities just because bills were crazy high..

Now everyone will go and look for alpha..

The smart one are already looking at good stock picks so that when the nearly 1.5 trillion of Pension funds mature come Nov/Dec and flows into Equities they can make some change..

Change is inevitable and change is here..

Let's all get used to it..

Pls recommend good pick for me. I think you make a lot of sense. The stock market going to experience real bullish trend soon

Hmm. Interesting discussions here. However let's try to keep it civil.

For what it's worth I, I see some of the merits in chorides posts. Inflation or no inflation, extremely high rates with investors recycling funds in TBs will turn the system into a giant ponzischeme.

However I don't think CBNs Gestapo-policy decisions will cut it either. You cant force people into it. YOU SHOULD INCENTIFICE It. Make the real sector attractive (deal with multiple taxes, poor infrastructure - roads, electricity, etc) and naturally credit will flow in that direction.

Nobody likes loosing money. Highly risk averse individuals like me will never touch stocks with a ten feet pole even if TBs fall to single digit or even if CBN places a complete ban on it. It's as simple as that.

I've been eyeing the agric crowdfunding schemes for a while but still undecided.. . .

olujaidi:


You're still ignorant. When inflation is high and the government wants to curtail spending and credit, interest rates become high as well. Rates were high because inflation was high. That was our situation. While interest can be be used to attract capital, that's not their primary focus. Plus, the real return on investment is a paltry 1-3%

So to you, the stock market is "real sector"? Lol. Your name should be John Snow. What productive activity are your funds put to? Excluding new listings via IPO and maybe private placement (which doesn't require listing), there's none. It's a mechanism for transfer of assets and associated rights from seller to the buyer.

When the terrain is tough, businesses have a higher chance of failing. Purchasing power of your target market has fallen and is undergoing further squeezing due to the border closure. Do you know how many taxes and levies businesses are subjected to without corresponding incentives and rebates; taxes that aren't even put to good use? Should the banks then lend to people who cannot pay back due to govt policies?

What's with the addiction to risk free money?

Again I ask you since interest rates were high because of inflation, why were interest rates not low 6 years ago when inflation was low.

Some banks have been doing SME banking over the turbulent years eg Fidelity and they have no problem. So stop saying all this people cant pay back that you are saying..

Again, high interest rates were kept that way for foreign investors who bring in upwards of $15bn every year to the economy..

You were just fortunate to be along for the ride, now you have been dropped at the bus stop..

There are opportunities everywhere not just the stock market, what about retail and local business?

Transport, Food, commerce. Arent some people making money in this terrain?

You dont seem to realise that high interest rates made credit to be inappropriately priced.

If the risk free rate is 13%, the prime lending rates will come in 15 and 16% for big guys like MTN, Dangote and shell.

The mid caps will come in 19 to 21%, and the lower caps will come in at 22 to 27...

Isnt that too high?

Govt has already embraced externalisation for making 40% of sovereign debt foreign, yet out debt service is 2.2trn,

This again is too high..

Ghana tbills is 16% or so..

You can buy it if your like..

Zambia is like 30%..

You can also buy it, if you can take the FX risk..

Long live Nigeria

chloride6:




Emefiele has really dealt with people..

You guys dont seems to understand what this thing is doing to the economy sha.

Let me put it in perspective for you.

If you have N2bn and you invest it in Tbills at 14% yield, you will get N280m without lifting a finger..

So why would you create businesses and jobs?

Because of your less than N50m in T Bill's you want interest rates to be high..

T Bill's corrupted everyone and made us lazy..

Some banks just forgot about loans and focused on treasury..

Zenith bank was making N400bn after tax just from T Bill's...

Infact you are more likely to get a loan from Citi Bank than you are from Zenith Bank...

High Interest Rates made your pension managers lazy.

They refused to buy equities just because bills were crazy high..

Now everyone will go and look for alpha..

The smart one are already looking at good stock picks so that when the nearly 1.5 trillion of Pension funds mature come Nov/Dec and flows into Equities they can make some change..

Change is inevitable and change is here..

Let's all get used to it..

Why does the government sell its treasury bill in the first place?


Is the government benefiting from borrowing money from the public or running at a loss?

You mentioned creating jobs, hypothetically, if I create a job or business that returns exactly the same yield as I would have returned from investing in treasury bills, would chosing one way or the other make a difference?

Again, according to the laws of economics (demand and supply) if most people invest in treasury bills the few that invest in businesses will make higher profits. Eventually, treasury bill will not be as profitable and money will shift once again back into businesses. There is no need to force these things, money will always flow where it will make the most returns sooner or later.

The government should concern itself with creating an enabling environment for businesses to flourish and let nature do the rest.

igbizen:

Go and sit down. The tough business atmosphere in Nigeria is what is struggling the economy- imagine my wife paying four types of taxes - she is considering pulling out her funds to do Tbills now. Instead for CBN to advise govt to make the country business friendly, he is there giving wrong analysis. I can bet that people will still prefer to leave their money in ordinary savings than to put it in this “shit-hole real economy”

The real economy in Nigeria is pathetic.

It swallows anything you invest and renders capital useless.

Please can I subscribe to FGN Savings Bond in any branch of First Bank?

Naughtysite:


The real economy in Nigeria is pathetic.

It swallows anything you invest and renders capital useless.

I am contemplating selling a house to invest in TB. What do you think ?

Business isn't working.

Being trying to sell houses but no buyer.

chloride6:


What's with the addiction to risk free money?

Again I ask you since interest rates were high because of inflation, why were interest rates not low 6 years ago when inflation was low.

Some banks have been doing SME banking over the turbulent years eg Fidelity and they have no problem. So stop saying all this people cant pay back that you are saying..

Again, high interest rates were kept that way for foreign investors who bring in upwards of $15bn every year to the economy..

You were just fortunate to be along for the ride, now you have been dropped at the bus stop..

There are opportunities everywhere not just the stock market, what about retail and local business?

Transport, Food, commerce. Arent some people making money in this terrain?

You dont seem to realise that high interest rates made credit to be inappropriately priced.

If the risk free rate is 13%, the prime lending rates will come in 15 and 16% for big guys like MTN, Dangote and shell.

The mid caps will come in 19 to 21%, and the lower caps will come in at 22 to 27...

Isnt that too high?

Govt has already embraced externalisation for making 40% of sovereign debt foreign, yet out debt service is 2.2trn,

This again is too high..

Ghana tbills is 16% or so..

You can buy it if your like..

Zambia is like 30%..

You can also buy it, if you can take the FX risk..

Long live Nigeria

Do you think most of us investing in tbills dont own businesses? What would I do with all the excess profit from my businesses?

A friend of mine uses his to build houses and give them out for rent. He owns over 10 houses in Lagos already.

I believe in putting my own excess money in tbills. So, you need to understand that the money we put in tbills did not fall from heaven.

OgogoroFreak:
Do you think most of us investing in tbills dont own businesses? What would I do with all the excess profit from my businesses? A friend of mine uses his to build houses and give them out for rent. He owns over 10 houses in Lagos already. I believe in putting my own excess money in tbills. So, you need to understand that the money we put in tbills did not fall from heaven.

Reinvest it in your business .. chloride6 no be so?

rationalmind:


Reinvest it in your business .. chloride6 no be so?

My business doesn't lack. Also, now the manufacturer can send me any amount of goods without me paying until I finish selling.

OgogoroFreak:
Do you think most of us investing in tbills dont own businesses? What would I do with all the excess profit from my businesses?

A friend of mine uses his to build houses and give them out for rent. He owns over 10 houses in Lagos already.

I believe in putting my own excess money in tbills. So, you need to understand that the money we put in tbills did not fall from heaven.

You can also build houses like your friend or expand your business or increase staff salary..

Or buy Zambia Tbills

rationalmind:


Reinvest it in your business .. chloride6 no be so?

Naso

Barrytone:


Being trying to sell houses but no buyer.

You are clearly trying to sell it too high....

chloride6:


You can also build houses like your friend or expand your business or increase staff salary..

Or buy Zambia Tbills

I should make money in Nigeria and take it out to Zambia? I suspect you are a toddler and a certified lunatic.

OgogoroFreak:
I should make money in Nigeria and take it out to Zambia? I suspect you are a toddler and certified lunatic.

No laws against transferring capital...

Americans bring money made in the US here so what's the Biggie?

chloride6:


You are quick to mention that banks can buy OMO Bill's. but you forget that they are currently being heavily penalised for low loan to deposit ratio..

Its is your responsibility to do due Diligence before Investing, people who bought GTB and Dangote are not crying, so stop making it sound like the while market is flawed..

as much as I believed in stock market, everyone should be left to invest according to their risk appetite the people that bought the Gtb you mentioned when it was even selling for 40 naira are yet to brake even and even the dangcem you mentioned. You want people to burn their hard earned money on what they don't know how it works? do you think everyone can go tru daily rituals we go tru to invest in stocks? what of if newbies buys stocks at a wrong time and 10m turned to 8m at the time the person needs the money? l sold zenith shares early this year @22.7 and since then it has not gone back to that price. so people should be left to invest according to their risk appetite. You want someone wt safety of his capital in mind to go and invest in stock?

aremso:


as much as I believed in stock market, everyone should be left to invest according to their risk appetite the people that bought the Gtb you mentioned when it was even selling for 40 naira are yet to brake even and even the dangcem you mentioned. You want people to burn their hard earned money on what they don't know how it works? do you think everyone can go tru daily rituals we go tru to invest in stocks? what of if newbies buys stocks at a wrong time and 10m turned to 8m at the the person needs the money? l sold zenith shares early this year @22.7 and since then it has not gone back to that price. so people should be left to invest according to their risk appetite. You want someone wt safety of his capital in mind to go and invest in stock?

Well the ability to do due diligence is what separates loser from winners..

Investing in stocks isnt risky if you know what you are doing..

Long terms investments are not as risky as you make it sound..

It is shortly term speculation that is the issue..

Look for good dividend stock and forget about the stock..

Diversify your portfolio and pray!

Or buy bonds...

chloride6:


No laws against transferring capital...

Americans bring money made in the US here so what's the Biggie?

I am OK with the rate in my country why would I go through the stress of transferring my money? If Americans are OK with their rate, do you Think they would bring their money here?

isangjohnson:
Please can I subscribe to FGN Savings Bond in any branch of First Bank?

yes you can

chloride6:


Well the ability to do due diligence is what separates loser from winners..

Investing in stocks isnt risky if you know what you are doing..

Long terms investments are not as risky as you make it sound..

It is shortly term speculation that is the issue..

Look for good dividend stock and forget about the stock..

Diversify your portfolio and pray!

Or buy bonds...

I'm done with cyberspace commentary. But. I appreciate your posturing and analysis. For this reason,I had to break silence.

You started well. You continued well. The finishing I don't fancy. There are issues to address in the finishing from broad range spectrum. Build solid cases from beginning to end. In all, you're a sound economist bro. Keep the good work up

But don't trivialized sound wisdom. Don't water down a good thought-process. Always maintain sound doctrine from start to finish


Best of luck

chloride6:


Well the ability to do due diligence is what separates loser from winners..

Investing in stocks isnt risky if you know what you are doing..

Long terms investments are not as risky as you make it sound..

It is shortly term speculation that is the issue..

Look for good dividend stock and forget about the stock..

Diversify your portfolio and pray!

Or buy bonds...

with all humility u can't tell me a jacket on stocks investments, I still maintain that your analysis will not work for someone who has safety of his capital at the back of his mind, someone who only wants to invest for 180days, 240days..... your analysis still will not work. am ready to commit 20m to a stock of my choice but would still tell my people to follow their risk appetite.

Barrytone:


Being trying to sell houses but no buyer.

Same scenario here, my man. I've by trying to sell a couple of my houses... even at a loss, for the better part of 2019. No buyer yet! Excuse?... 'Country hard o"

I intend to pump the funds BACK INTO NTBs. I normally use NTBs to successfully pay myself a healthy monthly pension... since 2012.

May God help us all.

OgogoroFreak:
I am OK with the rate in my country why would I go through the stress of transferring my money? If Americans are OK with their rate, do you Think they would bring their money here?

Are you not the one looking for 15%?

You can get it from Payvest sha..

Lol..

This has dragged on too long..

Peace!

healthserve:



I'm done with cyberspace commentary. But. I appreciate your posturing and analysis. For this reason,I had to break silence.

You started well. You continued well. The finishing I don't fancy. There are issues to address in the finishing from broad range spectrum. Build solid cases from beginning to end. In all, you're a sound economist bro. Keep the good work up

But don't trivialized sound wisdom. Don't water down a good thought-process. Always maintain sound doctrine from start to finish


Best of luck

Thanks man.

Just catching fun amidst all the seriousness...

But there are other opportunities put there...

Just wanted to put that there....

For instance nobody can tell.me nothing about transportation, it is highly profitable it just requires you to be a little mad..

chloride6:


You are clearly trying to sell it too high....

Am selling a twin three bedroom flat in Federal govt estate opposite Exxonmobil airstrip for a paltry 15m only. Well fenced with gate house armed with allocation papers. Influential neighborhood spilling aflunce. Best offer so far has been 12m. Cost of land alone in the estate is 6m. House is a virgin house though moderately finished. Since it's not a do or die scenario, I am waiting for right price. Just got 300k for rentage on one of the flat. Retouching the house for him to pack in next month. Question is how many 300k will I collect to meet up cost of that property before I talk of interest. Let ahiboilandgas continue to enjoy his landed properties as it's not working for me. Storey building at grade A estate in uyo, shelter afrique extension. Comprising 3 bedroom, 2 bedroom and 1bed room with more than average finishing. Well f fenced, security cameras, all room is ensuit. Very secured environment, no security bridge since 2015 that I packed in. House built in 2015. Price is 40m. Advise needed, is this properties over priced?

chloride6:


Thanks man.

Just catching fun amidst all the seriousness...

But there are other opportunities put there...

Just wanted to put that there....

For instance nobody can tell.me nothing about transportation, it is highly profitable it just requires you to be a little mad..

By communicating serious issues in unserious tone, you damage the attractiveness of what you started discussing on

Nonetheless, if knowledge must be dispersed, or rather, if we must communicate, we should also strive to edify and illuminate

Miscommunication of ideas and principles can dimmer the lustre of very good intentions.

Like I stated earlier, I'm done with the whole cyberspace chat thingey, but if analyzed and diseccted into finer bits, there's a whole broad spectrum to explore on the subject matter.

You're also missing an important point on the other side of the discussion that warrants critical review. But then. You're having fun. I can tell

Enjoy and best of luck. I'll keep an eye out for you in the future. We need an army of sound economist if we must prevail economically, geometrically and exponentially.

Barrytone:


Am selling a twin three bedroom flat in Federal govt estate opposite Exxonmobil airstrip for a paltry 15m only. Well fenced with gate house armed with allocation papers. Influential neighborhood spilling aflunce. Best offer so far has been 12m. Cost of land alone in the estate is 6m. House is a virgin house though moderately finished. Since it's not a do or die scenario, I am waiting for right price. Just got 300k for rentage on one of the flat. Retouching the house for him to pack in next month. Question is how many 300k will I collect to meet up cost of that property before I talk of interest. Let ahiboilandgas continue to enjoy his landed properties as it's not working for me. Storey building at grade A estate in uyo, shelter afrique extension. Comprising 3 bedroom, 2 bedroom and 1bed room with more than average finishing. Well f fenced, security cameras, all room is ensuit. Very secured environment, no security bridge since 2015 that I packed in. House built in 2015. Price is 40m. Advise needed, is this properties over priced?

u ober paid for the house.....rent is 300 k x 2 Flats x20 years...the house is 12m ....so it am buying I will price 10 m max .....near an air strip noise pollution and risk of air crash ...na 9m so suppose buy

ahiboilandgas:
u ober paid for the house.....rent is 300 k x 2 Flats x20 years...the house is 12m ....so it am buying I will price 10 m max .....near an air strip noise pollution and risk of air crash ...na 9m so suppose buy

Lol, if Exxon flight crash for your building then you don hammer therefore I should increase my price. 300k is a give away because I want someone to clear the compound. Since 2014, have been clearing at about 12k every six months. My neighbor by the fenced is getting 500k for 3 bedroom flat. A judge is renting therefore we have arm security around always. Airstrip noise is inconsequential as it's minimal within the estate, the road to the estate is opposite and not the house. Please add the rent for the gate house, a full self content.

chloride6:


Are you not the one looking for 15%?

You can get it from Payvest sha..

Lol..

This has dragged on too long..

Peace!

Tbills, bond or nothing!

Fvck payvest!!!

Barrytone:


Being trying to sell houses but no buyer.

Then, Reduce the price nau.