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IGBO POLITICAL LEADERS N THEIR PAST MISADVENTURES RESULTING IN CURRENT NAT PROBL / Junaid Mohammed: Igbo Political Leaders Haven’t Learnt Any Lesson From Civil War / Buhari And Economic Advisory Council In Close Door Meeting (2) (3) (4)
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Re: . by hammerU: 2:44pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
NaijirianKing: the only thing we need to worry about is Ala-igbo 2 Likes |
Re: . by topboss1: 2:46pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
waga g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqncwk1fchc&list=RDEMU_U4BReF3tfWL5XasV2FAg&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRiJc44yGU0 1 Like |
Re: . by NaijirianKing: 2:51pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
This is what a serious government looks like.
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Re: . by topboss1: 2:56pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
1 Like |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 4:51pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
pazienza: The same way Ijaw people will disagree with you Igboists that Bonny and Opobo is Igbo, yet you people still open your mouths to argue with Ijaw, despite your ignorance of the origins and migrations of communities within the Ngwa-Asa-Ndoki axis, ọ'ụ kwa ya? The difference here is that Ngwa are not ignorant of the actual migrations and origins in the area, and a host of corroboration exists. When we see Ijaw get upset over Bonny we laugh. As if Agba did not come from Umuagbayi and likewise Umuagbayi from Ohnaznu. Look, I don't have a problem stating it now, because I've stated it before in the past here on NL. Ndoki is an offshoot of Ngwa, plain and simple. We can leave the Umueze clan out of the offshoot statement however, because they migrated into the area recently/newly (late 19th century) in the company of Ijaw. We can be clear that they did not migrate directly from any of the communities north of them, so they are probably not Ngwa. Of course, that is unless they migrated from any of the communities in Ikwerre (judging by Umueze’s dialect) that has Ngwa affiliation in the company of their Kalabari Ijaw compatriots. For now however, we will simply exclude the entirety of Umueze. There are still Opobo people to this day who say Ngwa via Bonny via Umuagbayi. Even if Ngwa itself were to never say anything, corroboration abounds. pazienza: Yes. I am saying exactly that. This isn’t news. This idea of an all-encompassing, shared ethnic identity is the effect of war. Europeans gave you all your label and you all transformed it into a monolithic ethnic identity when war came and then grew an active Igbo consciousness post-war. Stating anything else would be lying, and we all know it. You want to assume that your ancestors cared about “interlinked”, despite the fact that there is a mountain of evidence that shows that we never shared a consciousness with each other until Europeans gave us a label. Many communities never even knew the word “Igbo” and first heard it from Europeans. We never shared an identity until Europeans created one for us and we cemented it post-war. This is another one of those hard pills of honesty that people like you have to learn to swallow. Isu people were not safe in Ngwa for centuries, because we considered them as outright strangers. They were expanding and fleeing the effects of the transatlantic slave trade in their region, and it took the kindness of Amumarna people to eventually allow them a modicum of protection as they tried to settle in the Ngwa-Ehilihita axis. We dubbed them “ohnuhnu” because they were coming from Ohnuhnu’s side of the Imo. Ehilihita called them “isoma” as they were not considered affiliated to any of the preexisting, autochthonous communities in the region (Ahiara, Ehilihita, etc.). This is just one example and there are countless others. Everything anyone tries to say about a pre-colonial umbrella consciousness is post-war Igbo propaganda. It’s time to be pragmatic and put an end to that, just as how you should put an end to defining the boundaries of Igbo beyond the SE. |
Re: . by Afam4eva(m): 4:58pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN:The Igbo label and consciousness may be a European invention and held sway after the war but does not mean that the people we call Igbo today did not have similarity in language and culture. If so, how come Ijaws were not included into the Igbo nation. They knew we shared a lot in common hence their decision to lump us together. Though i agree that some culture that we practice in recent times are borrowed cuture from other Igbo sub-groups. 2 Likes |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:05pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Afam4eva: You realize that those are two different statements? You people are trying to conflate an anthropological categorization and treat it as if it were a pre-existing ethnic identity. That is the contention here. Shared culture doesn't matter. The point being contended is the shared ethnic identity, and there was none until Europeans provided us with a convenient label and that label was turned into an ethnic identity post war. There is a mountain of evidence to this fact. |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:12pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
The reason why you Igboists will continue to struggle with this topic is because you are using your 2020 self-identity to judge the ethnic landscape of a time when no umbrella consciousness existed, not even in the slightest. I understand that you want to find a legitimate basis for your Igbo identity. That is fine, but be honest with yourselves. Also, you don't need to lie about the annals of the past. Simply stating that "Igbo groups came together to form an Igbo ethnic identity post-war" is justification enough. Igbo identity is a legitimate thing now. There is no need to care or worry about creating the propaganda that it is a heritage handed to you by your ancestors. It isn't. It's a legacy of your colonizers. That's simple history. It doesn't mean that it is no longer legitimate. For goodness sake. |
Re: . by pazienza(m): 5:18pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN The same way Ijaw people will disagree with you Igboists that Bonny and Opobo is Igbo, yet you people still open your mouths to argue with Ijaw, despite your ignorance of the origins and migrations of communities within the Ngwa-Asa-Ndoki axis, ọ'ụ kwa ya? The difference here is that Ngwa are not ignorant of the actual migrations and origins in the area, and a host of corroboration exists. Problem with clannish entities like you is that you are oblivious of the cascade of events you can trigger with your clannish sentiments. You want an Ngwa independent nationality, and you reason you can get this faster by separating Ngwa from Igbo. What you don't realize is that once you set a centrifugal force in motion, it leads to a cascade of events that quickly becomes beyond your control. I had this same issue with Ukwuani ethnic group nationalist. Many of them were so eager to cut off Ukwuani from Igbo, without factoring the fact that same cup they used to measure for Ndiigbo, will be used to measure for them. The average Ukwuani ethnic nationalist delusionally believes Ndoni and Ndokwa to be part of Ukwuani ethnic nationality, but today, both Ndoni and Ndoshimili (Ndokwa East) are breaking away from Ukwuani and floating their own independent ethnicities, with each claiming to be unique and distinct from Ukwuani. ![]() Now listen and listen well. No part of Ndoki want to have anything to do with Ngwa, most of them see Ngwa as enemies, infact Ndoki recent drive to leave the Igbo ethnicity and join the Ijaw is mainly driven by hate towards Ngwa, which they had indirectly spread to other Igbos. This hate emanates from perceived attempts by minority clannish entities like yourself from Ngwa to absorb them and marginalize them. Ngwa as an ethnic group has no link whatsoever with Ijaw. Because your claim to Ndoki is not corroborated by Ndoki themselves. If it's good for you to leave the Igbo Union, it's also good for Ndoki to stand independent of your unneeded claims on them. In fact, after Ndoki, the other Igbo clan that have most link with Ijaws are the Aros and their Abam brothers, many of who settled in present day Kalabari and Okrika. Even Asari Dokubo whose grand father was a king in Buguma can trace his ancestry to a certain Edi Abali from Abam. Some Okrika families I learnt are from Asa . The Igbo relationship with Ijaw is maintained by Asa, Ndoki, Aro, and Abam, with notable mention of Amaigbo (King Jaja home town). Ngwa were hardly major players. It's about time someone called off your bluff. ![]()
Igbo as a word is not of European making. We have always called each other Igbos. We always knew we were related. We just never had a reason to stand as one until Europeans came and showed us why we should. In new world, Igbo slaves found out they were same people and only had each other to rely on. We simply reached out to a Unity that existed in our subconsciousness and brought it into consciousness. Deal with it. If you destroy Igbo Unity, your Ngwa will not stand, because same centrifugal forces you invoked against Igbo unity will be used against your Ngwa unity. Ndo. 8 Likes |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:26pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Loool Pazienza, go and do your research, instead of coming here to argue with me about something you don't know. We've done this dance before on and off for the past ten years. And up to now, your knowledge of the area, the people and the oral traditions has still not grown. You claim that Ndoki never corroborated it, but you are clearly unaware of what they told anthropologist like Mulhal and Talbot. Lol. Lia sii. You call yourself a lover of Igbo people, culture, tradition and identity, abi? Go and study more about the people you so claim to love. pazienza: Yeah, for a lover of Igbo history, culture and identity, you have a lot to learn. "Unity that existed in our subconsciousness" - Pazienza This is the propaganda you all have been espousing for decades in the face of contradictory evidence. It's sninama. |
Re: . by Afam4eva(m): 5:29pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN:I don't disagree with you that there probably was no unison in ethnic Identity unlike in the Oyo empire and the caliphate. But that does not mean that we are not the same or similar people owing to our language, culture and tradition. 1 Like |
Re: . by topboss1: 5:30pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Biglo biko.... classic lyrics by biglo still getting recycled today baby girl ovulo tata kam bhi do na fu gi nanya https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6txMcowPeL4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5DHQGOK1DU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNOACeruGjw 1 Like |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:32pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Afam4eva: Can you acknowledge that stating "we are the same or similar owing to language and culture" is independent of the simple statement that we did not share an identity until Europeans gave us one? If you can, then it means you can identify what I am discussing vs what I am not. I will be the first to tell anyone that the Igbo ethnolinguistic group is a legitimate anthropological grouping (ie. "we are the same or similar owing to our language, culture and traditions). However, I will not be so propagandist as to state that because of such grouping, we have always seen ourselves as a people. THAT is the greatest of all lies that Igbo nationalists have convinced themselves to tell for decades now. |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:39pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
For all you Igbo people who do not know your history. It's time to learn today. Europeans, the ones who gifted you with your consciousness that you have now carried into 2020, stated that most of the Igbo slaves they took never acknowledged a nationhood with each other and never even knew what the word "Igbo" was (except the Isuama). The majority of Igbo slaves learned they were "Igbo people" for the first time in captivity. #IgboHistory. |
Re: . by Nobody: 5:45pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
mr11: "Federal Polytechnic Kwale (Establishment ETC), Bill 2019, Hon. Ossai asks body of Principal Officers of National Assembly to stand by FedPoly Establishment"... Guess Ossai Ossai done block am. House approved federal poly kwale send it to senate for concurrence, senate stepped it down.. Senate approved federal poly orogun, send it to house for concurrence, house stepped it down. Now both on equal basis and enroute to final battle...who wins? |
Re: . by Nobody: 5:50pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN: OK you have made your point. Next. |
Re: . by pazienza(m): 5:51pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN: Post the Talbot quotes you talking about and I will post colonial quotes where Ndoki have always maintained their independence. The message is clear, the only time Ndoki will be linked with Ngwa is under the Igbo ethnic nationality as sub groups of the Igbo. The moment you float your ill thought Ngwa independent ethnic nationality, the Ndoki will float theirs, those Ibeme And Mgboko communities in Ngwa will also start laying claim to their own distinct entities. The Asa enclaves within Ngwa and Aro enclaves within Ngwa will do same. The centrifugal forces you set into play will tear your Phantom Ngwa ethnic nationality apart before it even takes root. Be guided and fall in line. Chaos is always going to be a very slippery road to power. 8 Likes |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 5:56pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
pazienza: Lool. You are calling it "chaos". Let it come. It is no different from how things ACTUALLY USED TO BE. We were all uniquely independent groups. At least then we will be honest with ourselves. Either no one is Igbo, or everyone who speaks a type of Igbo is Igbo. Then, and only then, after decades have passed by and we are not war-ridden, we can begin to make actual thoughtful decisions for ourselves to conglomerate, as opposed to being forced into a conglomeration that has not even benefited us in the slightest, even after all these many decades. |
Re: . by Nobody: 6:03pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN: Seriously you're a lone voice. Even Abaribe Enyinnaya spear heads igbo course. Even your own governor Ikpeazu. You're just Imagining things but I can't help you for now. Your brother OkpalaAnambra will help you more better. 1 Like |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 6:09pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
MelesZenawi, lone voice or not doesn't change the fact that I have just as much right to speak as the rest of you. If you don't care what I have to say, then you are welcome to ignore me and my statements. |
Re: . by Afam4eva(m): 6:10pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN:I mostly agree with your assertion. But I hope you know that as you came Igbo was an artificial creation which I agree with, so is your NGWA, NKANU and most of the Igbo sub-groups that we know today. It's a slippery slope. 3 Likes |
Re: . by NaijirianKing: 6:11pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Interesting. 1 Like
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Re: . by Nobody: 6:12pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN: List your ethnic nationality so that we can help you champion it and it must not be trajectory with views of Abaribe, Ikpeazu, orji Uzor, ohabunwa and the rest. If it drifts then you have no case but a lone voice. |
Re: . by NaijirianKing: 6:22pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Interesting.
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Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 6:25pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Afam4eva: That is beyond the scope of what is being discussed. Identities morph and change all the time. Ngwa is a name applied to a group of settlements less than a millennia ago. In another millennia or two, Ngwa could very well not even exist. That is life. There was no "Igbo identity" a hundred years ago, and now there is a strong "Igbo identity" in 2020. That is life. So I'm not concerned with that. Rather, what I am concerned with is agency and an end to the constant and wasteful arguments about "Igbo Unity" and who is and isn't Igbo. |
Re: . by Afam4eva(m): 6:31pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN:If it applies to NGWA then why can't I apply to IGBO. With the current realities we know who the IGBO people are whether created by the white man or not. Whatever happens in a hundred years happens. Imagine if Aba woke up tomorrow and said they're not Ngwa. Will you let them go or try to to make them see reason. As much as the whole who-is -igbo and who is not is tiring to me, I understand why people who do it do it. But just like you, I want us to stop fighting it and let it go. 2 Likes |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 6:39pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
Afam4eva: I'd laugh, but I would not fight them on it. That's what I'm talking about. I don't go fighting with Ndoki people, but when the conversation does arise, I will simply say what we say about in Ngwa. I don't go fighting with Bonny/Opobo, but I will still say what we say about it in Ngwa. I don't go fighting with Iwhnernohna, but I will still say what we say about it in Ngwa. Likewise, if the Aba la Ohnaznu group decides one day to separate the same way Ihie tried, then it is what it is. I personally hold agency above ethnic identity. This is because I do not believe one must share an identity to work together with someone else towards a common objective. The agency to create and morph identity is more important to me than the identity itself. I may die an Ngwa, but my descendants will end up with a different identity than I. That's life, but that is also their agency at work. |
Re: . by okpalaAnambra: 6:45pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
MelesZenawi:Lol...this Edo boy..are you this jobless? Always online 24/7,, let me sponsor u to Philippines to deliver powder, atleast u will be useful there |
Re: . by Nobody: 6:49pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
okpalaAnambra: I wish...oooo even at the age of 14 I have been opportuned to leave the chores of this your estate. So o don't know what you can offer me again. If I am failing yapataa today with no road my people are well to do... So thank you. 1 Like |
Re: . by okpalaAnambra: 6:50pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
ChinenyeN:Well I will agree with u here,..If some group of people will say they're more Igbo than others(even when we know different groups existed differently),and migrated from different places and that's why I don't believe there is a single spot of migration people claim esp the NRI crap, it is more of a political grandstanding..So are different sub-igbo groups have right to say whether they're Igbo or not..is so simple |
Re: . by okpalaAnambra: 6:51pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
MelesZenawi:Yes you're people are well to do in the bush ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: . by ChinenyeN(m): 6:52pm On Feb 01, 2020 |
NaijirianKing: You're trying to tell the narrative of a context that did not apply. Igbo identity was borne from the Biafran war, plain and simple. There was no "Igbo people" until Europeans created "Igbo people", and then "Igbo people" (post-Biafra) came to cement that and adopt it for themselves, but an all-encompassing blanket did not exist. |
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