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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife (43880 Views)
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Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 8:54am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Which historical source ![]() Experts have examined that same source you call historical and have concluded that such accounts are audio accounts. And I have referenced R. C. C. Law for example. Rest! 2 Likes |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 8:57am On Apr 10, 2020 |
SilverSniper: Okay, it's not left again, it's sent. Lol. Anyways, such absurd account remains audio until you provide evidence. What remains therefore is the account that Oranmiyan is the first Alaafin Oyo. Thus Alaafin is superior to Oba Ubinu. 2 Likes |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:00am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: So the Alaafin once begged the Oba of Benin to send army to come and save him from other Yoruba tribes. He even said previous Alaafin used to pay tributes to Benin. I need to get myself these books on history of Yoruba, they sound very interesting. Cc gregyboy 1 Like |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:02am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk:Ogané is the Portuguese rendering of the actual indigenous Benin word to describe this "most powerful monarch." In other words a certain name in Edo language (??) became rendered in Portuguese as Ogane. Another example of European rendering is a Latin rendering of this same indigenous Benin word as Orguene, as seen on a 1525 map of Africa. So what actually is the indigenous Benin word which is rendered in Portuguese and Latin as Ogane and Orguene?? By paying a special careful attention to the sounds, the Bini word Oghene seems to be the most plausible original Bini word which the Europeans attempted to render in their own tongues. But did the ancient Binis ever use the word "Oghene" in relation to the "Ooni of Ife"?? The answer is a loud YES. Starting with the most recent of the two evidences I will cite to prove this foregoing claim: (a) In his "May 2004 The Benin-Ife Comnection", Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II noted emphatically that Oduduwa (who was the Ooni of Ife during his days) was known by the Benin people as Oghene n'Uhe. Refer to the link below for "Oghene n'Uhe" in Oba Erediauwa II's May 2004 work: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm (b) Citing different instances of Ife's political influence as exercised through the Ifa cult, Robin Horton alludes to a Benin tradition in his 1979 "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment" as follows: "Yet another tradition, this time from Benin, tells how the oracle of the Oghene of Uhe ("Oni of Ife" ) forewarned the Oba of Benin of impending calamity a few years before the disastrous encounter with the British." Reference: Robin Horton, "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment", Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol 9. No. 4 (June 1979), p.124. It therefore becomes clear at this point that the "Ooni of Ife" was known in ancient Benin as "Oghene" --- a 'name' which in European rendering became Ogane, Orguene, etc. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 9:02am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: I added an edit after looking back at my posts and it seems I didn't even say that the account claimed he had brought Ajaka along with him, you just interpreted it that way (which is understandable). And like I said, I will look for the account I read. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:05am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: I guess later day revisionist experts like yourself. Johnson stands as a pillar of Yoruba history. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:06am On Apr 10, 2020 |
SilverSniper:C'mon!! Poor damage control. So, he was first alone at Oyo as what? ![]() ![]() ![]() Anyways, your account rwmains audio account unless you can provide evidence. And The account that Oranmiyan was the first Alaafin rwmains unchallenged. Thus Alaafin is superior to Oba ubinu. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by gregyboy(m): 9:07am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Oga prove benin and ife had a connection without using oral account use other available source apart from written record, i will allow you use Portuguese writing record, but we have already disproven the fact that ogene was never ife so in your Portuguese account that should be excluded The igala benin war was documented in both art and writing record so we believe it happend 500yrs of Portuguese trading with benin they never saw or wrote on ife and benin connections thats have a melininum years They wrote about eko, they wrote about owo, akure, igala but never ife Why Prove it, there was a connection It seems you yorubas are using edo history to popularized your dead history and it is not working anymore we don wise .. If you can't prove benin an Ife connection then Words like oba, gods like olokun etc, words like benin were all indigenous Am waiting for you to prove it See owo art work that have semblance with benin Art because we brought it to them and thought them the art Atleast you are seeing our artwork in owo having a carbon copy of benin artwork But the history that says ife thought benin artwork and yet we cant find any similar artwork between those party Unless you want to prove otherwise In the ancient times nupe, igala, ife-owo art, owo-benin art the whole of Northern nigeria were all skilled in artwork but this artwork skilled were all different in style the artwork similar to the benin artwork is nupe Prove it to me ife introduce artwork to benin Using factual evidence and not writing document Cc samuk Davidnazee Image 1 0wo- benin art Image 2 nupe art Image 3 owo - ife art
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Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:08am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: None of your sources have shown that the Yorubas used the word Oghene at anytime in their history, unless you are telling us, Ife used to speak the Edo language. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:09am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Johnson collected the accounts around, no doubt. The point here (which appears to be bigger than you) is not that Johnson didn't collect such. What experts like Professor R.C.C. Law has submitted after his examinimg the sources is that such account were fabricated by their source as a means of political propaganda. They have no substance. Now, crawl back in reverse mode i to your creepy hole. ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:12am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Do you have problem reading? Where does the account say Yoruba call Ooni Oghene? The evidence simply talks about what the Edos call the Ooni of Ife. Oghene 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:15am On Apr 10, 2020 |
gregyboy: Go away, let your parents talk to me. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:16am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11:If the Benin can pronounce Oranmiyan, oranmila and other Yoruba words and names of that time why call Ife or Ooni Oghene and not by the name the Yoruba call him. Oghene was not a word ever heard in Ife. You guys and your bias sources were desperately trying to linked Ife and Ooni to Oghene. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:19am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: You're wondering why they regarded him as God?? Okay, why call him God is an interesting question. But did they?? The evidence I have pointed out says yes. So, if that demeans you and your heritage some how, then engage the evidence. ![]() ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:21am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Sorry, I thought you just lambasted SilverSniper, when he suggested the same about Johnson. You are now speaking from both sides of your mouth. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:25am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: They couldn't call him by the Yoruba word for God. If they were able to pronounce Oranmiyan and Oranmila why not call him by the Yoruba name for God. No evidence to show the word Oghene is a Yoruba word. Ife did not speak Edo language or did they? Only Yoruba bias sources will ascribe Oghene to Ooni or Ife. The same way your sources have be claiming Benin artworks that describe other tribes. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:29am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Historical evidence (which he admits) exist in that case to corroborate what not only Johnson but also Crowther had documented. Historical evidence shows that Oyo gained military and political ascendancy over other kingdoms including Benin kingdom. And he accept that. So? Johnson and Crowther independently recording account of tribute from Benin to Oyo is therefore corroborated by such widely attested fact. In the case of the Ooni, it's the other way around. Overwhelming account all over Yorubaland refute such few one-off traditions. And it is not just me who see this clearly like this, experts too do, Professor R. C.C. Law You need to bring your brain to discussions like this and stop comparing chalk and cheese. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:32am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Edo people are Edo. Yoruba don't call him God. Again, your skull seem to be very thick. Oghene is what the Edos call the Ooni. No where did the evidence say Oghene is what the Yoruba call the Ooni. Engage the evidence rather than beat about the bush. And the sources I added were two: Omo N'Oba Erediauwa and Robin Horton both of whom are Yoruba biased sources, right? ![]() ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by gregyboy(m): 9:35am On Apr 10, 2020 |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:37am On Apr 10, 2020 |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:37am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Can you read what you have written? Your sources agreed with the part that suits he and discount the part that he didn't like. Sounds like a typical Yoruba influenced revisionist. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:40am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: Those are too much for your brain to processes, I know. Come back to read it again when your head is cooled down from flogging. SilverSniper got the gist and backed off on the point. Never you with a thick skull tho. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 9:46am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Insults will not save you now, you can't retort to insults after losing the debate. I said it before that there were more to the Benin/Yoruba history that you guys would like to propagate. Silversniper is way out of your league. Unless you can show me where he came down to your gutter level in spite of your provocative languages and insults. I am ordering Johnson books on history of Yoruba. 1. Ooni was nothing but a descendant of shrine keeper 2. The so much talked about Yoruba Kiriji war got the name from the almighty sounds of Benin guns 3 . Alaafin once begged the Oba of Benin to come save him from other Yoruba tribes 4. Alaafin once paid tributes to Benin. How interesting. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 9:54am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: I will never insult anyone who proceeds with some decorum He made his points with his best evidence (what I love) And I gave my superior submission (with evidence) He eventually backed off on his points on: Crowther and Johnson account (where I showed that Oba of Benin once paid tributes to the Alaafin); Orun Oba Ado, etc. We both agreed that the apocryphal accounts on the Ooni are fabricated myths. The only point which he hasn't backed off on yet is his claim that there is a Yoruba or Oyo tradition which claims Ajaka to be the first Alaafin of Oyo --- a claim which he is still searching for evidence for. Comparing this to you and your ilks. Gosh! --- empty barrels. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by gregyboy(m): 9:58am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: That should be your mom he had passed are smelly cunt to her daughter You cant help the truth you began to result to insult Were the yorubas who accolade this she goat for a job well done he has now resulted to insult in place of fact gomojam DonCandido Amujale macof Sewgon79 lx3as Opiletool nisai 2fine2fast Aphrygian Olu317 Obalufon geosegun |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 10:06am On Apr 10, 2020 |
gregyboy: I know you are pained cos I ignored you. Little boy, talking to you is a waste of my time. I can't even manage. Your skull is thick and you can't string words together. You don't even listen to advice. You won't help yourself despite urging you severally to get yourself a copy of Queen Primer Look up at your comment, you used "he" for a woman. I have a screenshot already in case you edit it. If you need to learn anything from me, let your parents call me. Smh |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 10:12am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Good to hear it directly from you that Silversniper is way out of you agbero and gutter level. Go back to your exchanges and show me where he for once insult or disrespected you, despite your lack of manners, decorum and decency. You told us here that the Benin celebrate Oduduwa festival, why will the Benin call the festival Oduduwa and not Oghene festival if indeed Oduduwa/Ooni was the Oghene referred to in your fake sources. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 10:18am On Apr 10, 2020 |
samuk: No where did I mention the first lines of your comment. I am about to ask you to go away and let your parents talk to me instead. "Oduduwa" is a specific person -- a proper noun. "Oghene" as used (in this context) by the Binis is what the Binis call the rulerS (plural) of Ife --- (including Oduduwa himself) not just one person. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 10:43am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: So you now have a list of the rulerS (plural) of Ife Benin call Oghene (God) other than Oduduwa. Oghene is an Edo word for singular not plural. And for some reasons it made sense to you that the Benin will refer to a living person as God and not by their names or titles. In the 10th century the Benin remember a specific Oduduwa in Ife, he was not Oghene then but by late 15th century the Benin forgot the name and title of rulers of Ife and told the Portuguese Oghene. Or maybe the Benin Just forget to call Oduduwa Oghene(God). But they remember the Yoruba names of other Yoruba gods and Oracle such as Oranmila. Or the Yoruba hadn't invented a word for God then, so the Benin had no choice but to use the Edo word for God (Oghene) Same Benin people that have already achieved (the moat) what no human race in history had achieved on planet earth at that time. You can continue with own version of Benin/Ife history that suits you. I have other aspects of Benin/Yoruba history I will be exploring thanks to historians like Johnson. |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by darfay: 10:56am On Apr 10, 2020 |
TAO11: Are you going to pretend that you don't know oghene means supreme God in some edoid languages? How can a benin ex convict izobuwa be a supreme God? |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by samuk: 11:06am On Apr 10, 2020 |
darfay: Do you mind this clown. Well, some of us are here to entertain ourselves. If the Benin had told the Portuguese about any Oghene, that Oghene would have been situated amongst the Edoid people that use that name for their God. Benin would have referred to Ooni by his correct Yoruba name and title because they refer to other Yoruba gods and Oracle such as Oranmila by their Yoruba names. They didn't invent Edo words or names for these Yoruba gods and Oracles. 1 Like |
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by gregyboy(m): 11:30am On Apr 10, 2020 |
darfay: That reminds me Oghene means god in estako Oghene means god in urohobo Oghene, ohen means priest in benin a very high priest |
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