hupernikao:


Very sad when a man cant see the danger of misinterpretation of scriptures on the whole essence of Christendom. It is more saddening, when a man turn to human project as validation of God's acceptance at the detriment of the scriptures.

Very sad indeed. There are millions of believers scattered all around the world, unknown yet known of God properly dividing the word of truth without compromise, without human organisation yet in the will of God even in their hamlet , villages, some even strangers and rejected yet accepted of God.

So Jesus came, spent three and a half years preaching and teaching, established a preaching and teaching program, organised a group for the task ahead, died a sacrificial death, still promised to keep monitoring the activities of his followers till the end time and all this is just about people scattered abroad with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines without a common line of thought binding them together as one on how to carry out the task Jesus gave them?

Sorry my friend, you don't know anything about Christ or Christianity!

Janosky:

Hhmmm...

Sir , you have no response to the question I asked you?

I don't know why you claimed Jesus implied he is the Son of God....
In the holy Scriptures Jesus speaks for himself....

John 10:36 American Standard Version (ASV)
"36 say ye of him, whom the Father [a]sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Footnotes:
John 10:36 Or, consecrated



John 19:7 American Standard Version (ASV)
"7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God."

Shalom

Ok, thanks for pointing that out, probably the only place he mentioned it, but he still asked it as a question. But like I said, he always referred to himself as Son of Man.
It was his way of both hiding his identity and also so that the devil not know Gods plan.

TATIME:


You guys don't know anything!

You and Janosky will still meet many Sabynus on Nairaland, but the only thing Sabynus sabi do na to argue and argue and argue to win arguments!

Can't you see how he just overlooked the vital point you made at Psalms 110:1?

All his interest is to argue on Hebrew writings not about how to identify or distinguish between the two Lords the Psalmist mentioned!

That's how to identify a Sabynus!

Sabynus kò, Sumaila ni

This is hypocrisy. Do you start an argument to lose it, or did Janosky and Maximus69 set out their arguments here because they want to lose. You are just a hypocrite acting like a bribed referee cut in between lack of understanding of the reality of events and love for his pocket.

Argument or biblical argument must have compromise which is driven by exposure to higher knowledge/revelation and proper explanation of scriptures. While the one party must present his knowledge with all humility and honesty to explain, the other must be able to accept his lack of understanding and embrace scriptural truth on face value so that only Christ is glorified. But its people like you who sees winning arguments as gold medals to be hung of your hypocritical neck that result to calling others unprinted names when you know you have nothing else to contribute. Very soon you wont only see Sabynus, you will start seeing Subaru.

Shameful that you cant put aside your sentiment and accept that your friend made a great blunder by misinforming people that scriptures were originally written in capitals and small letters and then based his lies in defending a verse to confuse others. Now, my sin is that I pointed that to him that he was wrong, providing evidence. Yet you and him couldn’t accept that and correct yourself. You know what bible call people like that? Proud, heart full of pride that silence your right judgement.

You even mentioned that I diverted a “key point” raised by your companion on Psalms 110:1 by pointing to his wrong usage of Hebrew writings. See, there is no need explaining scriptures to a man who cant even accept that scriptures must be interpreted by using the words of the scriptures itself not your own induced thought. Secondly, there is no need speaking about Psalms 110:1 that your companion (Janosky), last year wrote on a thread that the Psalms 110 event happened thousands of years ago in heaven before David wrote about it. . Is that not ridiculous.

A kindergarten in bible interpretation knows that Psalms 110:1 is prophetic utterance not a past event. But like I have said many times here. I am not concern about explaining scriptures to you or discuss Trinity but firstly to correct your wrong application of text and words which formed the foundation of your erroneous doctrine.

So, Mr TATIME Sabynus, you can cease calling names and face the issue at hand. It is when a man has nothing to say again or offer that he results to name calling in discussion and that in itself is not smart.

Jesus is a fake god.

Maximus69:


So Jesus came, spent three and a half years preaching and teaching, established a preaching and teaching program, organised a group for the task ahead, died a sacrificial death, still promised to keep monitoring the activities of his followers till the end time and all this is just about people scattered abroad with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines without a common line of thought binding them together as one on how to carry out the task Jesus gave them?

Sorry my friend, you don't know anything about Christ or Christianity!

Mr Maximus69,

Don’t sell Christianity on the table of building institutions or popularity or fans. It is a base that has no place in the scriptures. Wake up from that sleep. Human popularity or acceptability doesn’t translate to God acceptance. There are bigger Institution built all around the world without needing the Holy Ghost, scriptures or Jesus.

Psalms 127:1

Except the Lord builds the house, they that built buildeth in vain

Observe, He didn’t say they will not build, they will build, but yet it is vanity at the end. So, In building institution, man will, he has all it takes, but God’s acceptance cannot be judge by that.

And if you want to use your human’s standard of building institution as acceptance, let me give you a bit of analysis. Below is the estimated membership of professed Christian bodies (single churches) around the world. I have only extracted few that have more coverage and membership based than JW.

Catholicism – 1.313 billion (~50% of Christianity as religion)
Baptist churches – 75–105 million
Lutheranism – 70–90 million
Methodism – 60–80 million
Reformed churches (Calvinism) – 55–100 million
Anglican Communion – 85 million
Seventh-day Adventist Church – 20.0 million
Latter Day Saint movement (Mormonism) – 16.4 million
Jehovah's Witnesses – 8.5-8.6 million

And aside, the membership, Roman Catholic has had the greatest impart in the world in human history. I am not a member neither am I related to the church less you feel sentimental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Note that, this is not to spite any of the body/institution but to show you there are more who have, cover more and have achieve human effort more than JW. So when speaking about institution check well.

But the truth is, I am not such that drag sentiment of institution to biblical discussion. Let God judge who is serving him, not institution. So, face the essence of this post without diversionary act.

According to African history, the name Jesus is associated with death, misery, pain, poverty and slavery.

hupernikao:


Mr Maximus69,

Don’t sell Christianity on the table of building institutions or popularity or fans. It is a base that has no place in the scriptures. Wake up from that sleep. Human popularity or acceptability doesn’t translate to God acceptance. There are bigger Institution built all around the world without needing the Holy Ghost, scriptures or Jesus.

Psalms 127:1

Except the Lord builds the house, they that built buildeth in vain

Observe, He didn’t say they will not build, they will build, but yet it is vanity at the end. So, In building institution, man will, he has all it takes, but God’s acceptance cannot be judge by that.

And if you want to use your human’s standard of building institution as acceptance, let me give you a bit of analysis. Below is the estimated membership of professed Christian bodies (single churches) around the world. I have only extracted few that have more coverage and membership based than JW.

Catholicism – 1.313 billion (~50% of Christianity as religion)
Baptist churches – 75–105 million
Lutheranism – 70–90 million
Methodism – 60–80 million
Reformed churches (Calvinism) – 55–100 million
Anglican Communion – 85 million
Seventh-day Adventist Church – 20.0 million
Latter Day Saint movement (Mormonism) – 16.4 million
Jehovah's Witnesses – 8.5-8.6 million

And aside, the membership, Roman Catholic has had the greatest impart in the world in human history. I am not a member neither am I related to the church less you feel sentimental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Note that, this is not to spite any of the body/institution but to show you there are more who have, cover more and have achieve human effort more than JW. So when speaking about institution check well.

But the truth is, I am not such that drag sentiment of institution to biblical discussion. Let God judge who is serving him, not institution. So, face the essence of this post without diversionary act.

Jesus commissioned a global campaign for God's Kingdom {Matthew 10:3-15; 28:19-20} his followers were scared to go out for the task due to the threat from Jewish religious leaders, God used his holy spirit to empower them for the work {Act 2:1-4} but you want to argue knowing something about the arrangement yet just point to a group that's applying what Jesus taught his ORGANIZED followers back then, you just want to argue fruitlessly without a purpose!

That's why Tatime called you Sabynus, you only need to point out an organized group carrying out Jesus' assignment today that's all!

Since you can't point to any visible Organization actively carrying out the task Jesus gave his followers, there is no need for arguments!

hupernikao:


Sabynus kò, Sumaila ni

This is hypocrisy. Do you start an argument to lose it, or did Janosky and Maximus69 set out their arguments here because they want to lose. You are just a hypocrite acting like a bribed referee cut in between lack of understanding of the reality of events and love for his pocket.

Argument or biblical argument must have compromise which is driven by exposure to higher knowledge/revelation and proper explanation of scriptures. While the one party must present his knowledge with all humility and honesty to explain, the other must be able to accept his lack of understanding and embrace scriptural truth on face value so that only Christ is glorified. But its people like you who sees winning arguments as gold medals to be hung of your hypocritical neck that result to calling others unprinted names when you know you have nothing else to contribute. Very soon you wont only see Sabynus, you will start seeing Subaru.

Shameful that you cant put aside your sentiment and accept that your friend made a great blunder by misinforming people that scriptures were originally written in capitals and small letters and then based his lies in defending a verse to confuse others. Now, my sin is that I pointed that to him that he was wrong, providing evidence. Yet you and him couldn’t accept that and correct yourself. You know what bible call people like that? Proud, heart full of pride that silence your right judgement.

You even mentioned that I diverted a “key point” raised by your companion on Psalms 110:1 by pointing to his wrong usage of Hebrew writings. See, there is no need explaining scriptures to a man who cant even accept that scriptures must be interpreted by using the words of the scriptures itself not your own induced thought. Secondly, there is no need speaking about Psalms 110:1 that your companion (Janosky), last year wrote on a thread that the Psalms 110 event happened thousands of years ago in heaven before David wrote about it. . Is that not ridiculous.

A kindergarten in bible interpretation knows that Psalms 110:1 is prophetic utterance not a past event. But like I have said many times here. I am not concern about explaining scriptures to you or discuss Trinity but firstly to correct your wrong application of text and words which formed the foundation of your erroneous doctrine.

So, Mr TATIME Sabynus, you can cease calling names and face the issue at hand. It is when a man has nothing to say again or offer that he results to name calling in discussion and that in itself is not smart.

I'm deeply sorry for calling you "Sabynus" jare!

You've won all the arguments unopposed sir, therefore you can continue doing the work of da lord as da holy ghost is backing your arguments!
Simbarry shout Hallelujah!

TATIME:


I'm deeply sorry for calling you "Sabynus" jare!

You've won all the arguments unopposed sir, therefore you can continue doing the work of da lord as da holy ghost is backing your arguments!
Simbarry shout Hallelujah!

He is anxious to point out error (wrong) but the correct (right) he can't point out!

It's just like a self acclaimed banker who is so poised at helping people to identify the fake currencies in the society, but can you show us the one and only legal tender?

Sabynus just want to win arguments!

Walahi Talahi Sabynus sabi no be small!

Maximus69:

Jesus commissioned a global campaign for God's Kingdom {Matthew 10:3-15; 28:19-20} his followers were scared to go out for the task due to the threat from Jewish religious leaders, God used his holy spirit to empower them for the work {Act 2:1-4} but you want to argue knowing something about the arrangement yet just point to a group that's applying what Jesus taught his ORGANIZED followers back then, you just want to argue fruitlessly without a purpose!

That's why Tatime called you Sabynus, you only need to point out an organized group carrying out Jesus' assignment today that's all!

Since you can't point to any visible Organization actively carrying out the task Jesus gave his followers, there is no need for arguments!

What task are you carrying out? . If you are taken on this unproven assertion again to explain from the scriptures you will start dilly-dally.

Please, Leave group and Subaru, face the scriptures. You put up lies and dishonesty and you have been corrected. Be humble enough to accept. That is the right thing to do.

No matter how you change the narrative to fit what is not being discussed, it wont change the fact that you are not are not humble enough to accept your mistakes and that is Un-christiany. I know you are trained to always divert when you are caught messing the scriptures. But like i told you i have passed that. So, go back to the scriptures and humbly correct yourself.

Maximus69:


He is anxious to point out error (wrong) but the correct (right) he can't point out!

It's just like a self acclaimed banker who is so poised at helping people to identify the fake currencies in the society, but can you show us the one and only legal tender?

Sabynus just want to win arguments!

Walahi Talahi Sabynus sabi no be small!

Can you sir, point me to the scripture you have correctly applied since you started argument? Kindly point to one that needed attention. Because i didnt comment, doesnt make it right sir. You have so much abused the bible interpretation here but some arent necessary to dwell on.

Even the ones you have seen as you are wrong as corrected, you have refused to openly accept. Scriptures is not about me, it is God's authority. Irrespective of how you feel about the other party, or how correction comes, for the fact that you have seen it, humility and trust in God's word must persuade and constrain you to accept and move not, diverting and making unnecessary comments. Kindly humble your heart. Humility is when you can accept God's word on face value and not find faults.

James 1:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

1 Peter 2:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,

hupernikao:


What task are you carrying out? . If you are taken on this unproven assertion again to explain from the scriptures you will start dilly-dally.

Please, Leave group and Subaru, face the scriptures. You put up lies and dishonesty and you have been corrected. Be humble enough to accept. That is the right thing to do.

No matter how you change the narrative to fit what is not being discussed, it wont change the fact that you are not are not humble enough to accept your mistakes and that is Un-christiany. I know you are trained to always divert when you are caught messing the scriptures. But like i told you i have passed that. So, go back to the scriptures and humbly correct yourself.

You're not getting the point so i'll help you!

Jesus sent his followers out in search of the lost sheep of the house of Israel

There are over 8.7 millions of people from different tribes, tongues, peoples, ethics and nations, actively preaching and teaching what Jehovah's Witnesses taught us.

You need not be schooled about the attitude of the domestic pets "sheep", all they do is follow Organizational directions in an orderly manner.

So if you're now saying that what they were taught is wrong, and there are thousands of other religious groups claiming Christians out there with much more members than Jehovah's Witnesses but they're not as ACTIVE in disciple making like Jehovah's Witnesses!

For your information, the 8.7 millions doesn't include those attending our meetings without active participation in the preaching and teaching work. Neither do we count unbaptized members as one of us.

So to help these 8.7 millions of people globally, all we're asking you now is to direct us to the group that's teaching the exact doctrines of Christ, so that we can switch over from being Jehovah's Witnesses to the correct group.

(1)The group must be actively preaching and teaching globally just as Jesus ordered his TRUE followers. Matthew 28:29-20

(2)They must be separate from all other religions groups claiming worshipers of God! John 17:14-16

(3)They must be recognized with fine qualities that everyone will like to emulate! Matthew 5:14-16

(4) People world over will testify to the fact that there is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL in their midst! Matthew 7:15-20 compare to Galatians 5:22-23

(5) All other religionists will hate them for being rigid with their beliefs! Matthew 10:22 compare to John 17:14-16

So please we don't need the arguments, there must be a group that taught you what you know now and there must be a way to contact them in our neighborhood if truthfully they're Christians, just direct us to them, we know what to look for in them! John 8:32

Thanks!

smh

The Christian Bible is fake, false and counterintuitive.

The concept of God is African.

That is to say, foreigners came to Africa, found out about our divine principles (Gods) and called them God.

The African Gods are the only true and proper ones.

Maximus69:


You're not getting the point so i'll help you!

Jesus sent his followers out in search of the lost sheep of the house of Israel

There are over 8.7 millions of people from different tribes, tongues, peoples, ethics and nations, actively preaching and teaching what Jehovah's Witnesses taught us.

You need not be schooled about the attitude of the domestic pets "sheep", all they do is follow Organizational directions in an orderly manner.

So if you're now saying that what they were taught is wrong, and there are thousands of other religious groups claiming Christians out there with much more members than Jehovah's Witnesses but they're not as ACTIVE in disciple making like Jehovah's Witnesses!

For your information, the 8.7 millions doesn't include those attending our meetings without active participation in the preaching and teaching work. Neither do we count unbaptized members as one of us.

So to help these 8.7 millions of people globally, all we're asking you now is to direct us to the group that's teaching the exact doctrines of Christ, so that we can switch over from being Jehovah's Witnesses to the correct group.

(1)The group must be actively preaching and teaching globally just as Jesus ordered his TRUE followers. Matthew 28:29-20

(2)They must be separate from all other religions groups claiming worshipers of God! John 17:14-16

(3)They must be recognized with fine qualities that everyone will like to emulate! Matthew 5:14-16

(4) People world over will testify to the fact that there is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL in their midst! Matthew 7:15-20 compare to Galatians 5:22-23

(5) All other religionists will hate them for being rigid with their beliefs! Matthew 10:22 compare to John 17:14-16

So please we don't need the arguments, there must be a group that taught you what you know now and there must be a way to contact them in our neighborhood if truthfully they're Christians, just direct us to them, we know what to look for in them! John 8:32

Thanks!

You are the one not getting this discussion.

And it is because you have turned it to personal issues. We don’t know each other and will likely not meet in a lifetime, so there is nothing I hold personal. This is scriptures we are talking about not the authenticity or falsehood of an organization. We can discuss the later in another thread if you which. But sacrificing scriptural truth of platform of results is a measure that has always failed. Scriptures didn’t explicitly warn about gathering but explicitly warned about perversion of scriptures.

Even Jesus taught about rejecting some who claimed to have done many things in his name “in your name we built the best institution, we have the best results, yet he said he doesn’t know them. So, lets stick to the scriptures.

My challenge with you is that you have so much seal for God but not with right knowledge. You are like Apollos who quote the scriptures but needed Aquila/Priscilla to help him in proper interpretation. But unlike Apollos you are rejecting the help available to you.

I have pointed to you for example that FIRSTBORN (Prototokos) was never used or will ever meant to create/ be created both in the bible and Greek lexicon. I have given you scriptures on all these, yet you rejected. See the essence of bible discussion is to provoke to further studies. You imagine saying wisdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor 1:24 is a person. All these are both grammatically and contextually wrong. But you imagine that I will overlook such is like telling me to crucify Christ again.

The more we allow these wrong interpretation or perversion, the more we hinder the true knowledge of the gospel. You will mislead many into error. And that is dangerous especially in this period.

I give you another example.

Someone (pressplay411) here on NL raised a point on Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This is the link below
https://www.nairaland.com/5782724/jesus-god-see/5#88387961

I was amused at your interpretation as you tried to wrestle out the true explanation. Imagine you saying Prince is someone who has a father (king). You should always do further study on words before trying to convince others.

The word translated Prince in Isa 9:6 is the Hebrew word “sar”. Which implies ruler, leader, chief, chieftain, official, captain, official under king, chief, head, patron-angel, Ruler of rulers (of God).

The Septuagint used the Greek word “archon” which simply means a ruler, commander, chief, leader. It has nothing to do with birth or prince as we know today when you say the prince of the kingdom as the son of a king. See some of its usage, I will bold the word translated as “archon”.

Mat 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshiped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Luk 11:15
But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

Jhn 12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

1Co 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Prince here will refer to authority, rulers, not a birthright.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

In all occasion you will see its usage is never related to birth primarily, but its root is to show the authority of the person. A ruler, head but not a son under a king.

For example, Daniel used the word prince well and in all its usage it refers to ruler, headship, one who lords over.

Dan 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:20
Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

Referring to the ruler, the head of Persia and Grecia, possible spirit realm.

[i]So, when you have Prince of Peace, it simply translates ruler, the lord of Peace, not a son of peace.


Secondly, you spoke about MIGHTY GOD and you said Mighty cant be speaking about God because it isn’t ALMIGHTY. No Sir, Mighty is an adjective and it qualifies the God in this verse.

The word mighty is taken from “gibbowr” translated as strong, mighty. For example, a strong man and can be used to qualify God. It doesn’t have to be written as Almighty. It was used 11 times in OT as adjectives. I will give directly places it was used to qualify God.

Psa 24:8
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.

Observe it was used twice here and it both qualified THE LORD. The word Lord used twice here is the name of God (YHWH) taken as Yahweh/Jehovah (Check the original translation). Hence it implies MIGHTY GOD, A STRONG ONE.

Hence not every time you see God qualified as Almighty, Mighty is also used for God (Jehovah) and Isa 9:6 can’t be different. The word God in Isa 9:6 (el) is likewise used severally for God.

Isa 10:21
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

Jer 32:18
Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,

Observe, Mighty God, the Lord from 'el Yĕhovah gibbowr. Speaking about God. Notice usage of ‘el for God and then Jehovah.

So, saying Isa 9:6 will be referring to a lesser god, because of usage of gibbowr is not consistent with the scriptures. Gibbowr as an adjective will only qualifies what comes after it, but what comes after it cant qualifies Gibbowr.


Lastly, Everlasting Father, this one let me feel you just want to deliberately misrepresent the scriptures. How will you say it’s referring to Jesus as a Father of people? Father of nations? Do you see the word everlasting there?

You see there are rules that govern bible interpretation. I have mentioned some over and over here. You don’t just generate meanings that have no backings in the scriptures. The scriptures provide evidence for itself (2 Tim 3:15-16). Hence all interpretation must be seen and align with the who body of scriptures. Hence the reason for interpretation rules, so that a man doesn’t just wake up one day and give us false interpretation in the name of “the spirit shows me”.

Some further rules include:

- Law of Single Mention. (mentioned just once but not explained at all). You cant build evidence or doctrine on this.

- Law of Double or Multiple Mention. (A text, concept, or interpretation, mentioned severally all around the scriptures). This allow internal evidence of the scriptures itself and such doctrine can be affirmed.

- Law of Emphatic Mention. (Mentioned just once but was well explained in detail in this single mention). The explanation will let us be able to build evidence and doctrine on this because it will be clear in explanation.
-
Your interpretation failed all these tests.

For example, can you show me any text of the scriptures where Jesus is referred to as A FATHER? Father of who? Believers have one Father, God. So, where do you get the interpretation of calling Jesus father of people linking it to Adam? If Jesus is Father to us, then God is what? Grandfather? No text, I mean none referred to Christ as a father except that you want to wrestle it in.

Everlasting or Eternal father implies it has no beginning nor an end. So, is Christ Eternal father? Father of who? At least you agreed here that Christ is in eternity. Everlasting father implies he has no beginning, hence not created.

See, I know you have a believe system you have to defend, but don’t do so at the detriment of the scriptures. Institution didn’t die for us, Christ did. The scripture is all we have, and we must contend for the same faith, truth, revelation of those who have gone ahead of us.

And if you want to continue arguing don’t forget to provide answers and scriptural evidence to all my questions/posers above. But I beseech you in the name of the Lord to desist from this and embrace humility to search the scriptures all over again. Your seal can be put to better use in this.

May God help us all.

hupernikao:


You are the one not getting this discussion.

And it is because you have turned it to personal issues. We don’t know each other and will likely not meet in a lifetime, so there is nothing I hold personal. This is scriptures we are talking about not the authenticity or falsehood of an organization. We can discuss the later in another thread if you which. But sacrificing scriptural truth of platform of results is a measure that has always failed. Scriptures didn’t explicitly warn about gathering but explicitly warned about perversion of scriptures.

Even Jesus taught about rejecting some who claimed to have done many things in his name “in your name we built the best institution, we have the best results, yet he said he doesn’t know them. So, lets stick to the scriptures.

My challenge with you is that you have so much seal for God but not with right knowledge. You are like Apollos who quote the scriptures but needed Aquila/Priscilla to help him in proper interpretation. But unlike Apollos you are rejecting the help available to you.

I have pointed to you for example that FIRSTBORN (Prototokos) was never used or will ever meant to create/ be created both in the bible and Greek lexicon. I have given you scriptures on all these, yet you rejected. See the essence of bible discussion is to provoke to further studies. You imagine saying wisdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor 1:24 is a person. All these are both grammatically and contextually wrong. But you imagine that I will overlook such is like telling me to crucify Christ again.

The more we allow these wrong interpretation or perversion, the more we hinder the true knowledge of the gospel. You will mislead many into error. And that is dangerous especially in this period.

I give you another example.

Someone (pressplay411) here on NL raised a point on Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This is the link below
https://www.nairaland.com/5782724/jesus-god-see/5#88387961

I was amused at your interpretation as you tried to wrestle out the true explanation. Imagine you saying Prince is someone who has a father (king). You should always do further study on words before trying to convince others.

The word translated Prince in Isa 9:6 is the Hebrew word “sar”. Which implies ruler, leader, chief, chieftain, official, captain, official under king, chief, head, patron-angel, Ruler of rulers (of God).

The Septuagint used the Greek word “archon” which simply means a ruler, commander, chief, leader. It has nothing to do with birth or prince as we know today when you say the prince of the kingdom as the son of a king. See some of its usage, I will bold the word translated as “archon”.

Mat 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshiped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Luk 11:15
But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

Jhn 12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

1Co 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Prince here will refer to authority, rulers, not a birthright.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

In all occasion you will see its usage is never related to birth primarily, but its root is to show the authority of the person. A ruler, head but not a son under a king.

For example, Daniel used the word prince well and in all its usage it refers to ruler, headship, one who lords over.

Dan 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:20
Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

Referring to the ruler, the head of Persia and Grecia, possible spirit realm.

[i]So, when you have Prince of Peace, it simply translates ruler, the lord of Peace, not a son of peace.


Secondly, you spoke about MIGHTY GOD and you said Mighty cant be speaking about God because it isn’t ALMIGHTY. No Sir, Mighty is an adjective and it qualifies the God in this verse.

The word mighty is taken from “gibbowr” translated as strong, mighty. For example, a strong man and can be used to qualify God. It doesn’t have to be written as Almighty. It was used 11 times in OT as adjectives. I will give directly places it was used to qualify God.

Psa 24:8
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.

Observe it was used twice here and it both qualified THE LORD. The word Lord used twice here is the name of God (YHWH) taken as Yahweh/Jehovah (Check the original translation). Hence it implies MIGHTY GOD, A STRONG ONE.

Hence not every time you see God qualified as Almighty, Mighty is also used for God (Jehovah) and Isa 9:6 can’t be different. The word God in Isa 9:6 (el) is likewise used severally for God.

Isa 10:21
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

Jer 32:18
Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,

Observe, Mighty God, the Lord from 'el Yĕhovah gibbowr. Speaking about God. Notice usage of ‘el for God and then Jehovah.

So, saying Isa 9:6 will be referring to a lesser god, because of usage of gibbowr is not consistent with the scriptures. Gibbowr as an adjective will only qualifies what comes after it, but what comes after it cant qualifies Gibbowr.


Lastly, Everlasting Father, this one let me feel you just want to deliberately misrepresent the scriptures. How will you say it’s referring to Jesus as a Father of people? Father of nations? Do you see the word everlasting there?

You see there are rules that govern bible interpretation. I have mentioned some over and over here. You don’t just generate meanings that have no backings in the scriptures. The scriptures provide evidence for itself (2 Tim 3:15-16). Hence all interpretation must be seen and align with the who body of scriptures. Hence the reason for interpretation rules, so that a man doesn’t just wake up one day and give us false interpretation in the name of “the spirit shows me”.

Some further rules include:

- Law of Single Mention. (mentioned just once but not explained at all). You cant build evidence or doctrine on this.

- Law of Double or Multiple Mention. (A text, concept, or interpretation, mentioned severally all around the scriptures). This allow internal evidence of the scriptures itself and such doctrine can be affirmed.

- Law of Emphatic Mention. (Mentioned just once but was well explained in detail in this single mention). The explanation will let us be able to build evidence and doctrine on this because it will be clear in explanation.
-
Your interpretation failed all these tests.

For example, can you show me any text of the scriptures where Jesus is referred to as A FATHER? Father of who? Believers have one Father, God. So, where do you get the interpretation of calling Jesus father of people linking it to Adam? If Jesus is Father to us, then God is what? Grandfather? No text, I mean none referred to Christ as a father except that you want to wrestle it in.

Everlasting or Eternal father implies it has no beginning nor an end. So, is Christ Eternal father? Father of who? At least you agreed here that Christ is in eternity. Everlasting father implies he has no beginning, hence not created.

See, I know you have a believe system you have to defend, but don’t do so at the detriment of the scriptures. Institution didn’t die for us, Christ did. The scripture is all we have, and we must contend for the same faith, truth, revelation of those who have gone ahead of us.

And if you want to continue arguing don’t forget to provide answers and scriptural evidence to all my questions/posers above. But I beseech you in the name of the Lord to desist from this and embrace humility to search the scriptures all over again. Your seal can be put to better use in this.

May God help us all.

So Jesus' followers are supposed not to forsake the gathering of their group. Hebrew 10:24-25

Which group is teaching you this, so that interested persons can also associate with them and become enlightened like you?

hupernikao:


And if you want to continue arguing don’t forget to provide answers and scriptural evidence to all my questions/posers above. But I beseech you in the name of the Lord to desist from this and embrace humility to search the scriptures all over again. Your seal can be put to better use in this.

May God help us all.

The problem is that you and Maximus69 are both right but you do not know it.
Can't you see that you are both quoting scriptures from the same bible to validate your arguments?
I don't know if it's as you say the devil's work or God's work cos the bible as i said is full of contradictions.

In certain verses, it claims Jesus is God, in others Jesus admits he's not God.

Maximus69:


So Jesus' followers are supposed not to forsake the gathering of their group. Hebrew 10:24-25

Which group is teaching you this, so that interested persons can also associate with them and become enlightened like you?

Maximus will not break my ribs with laughter!

So upon all the lengthy write-ups the guy put all you want to know is his group!

Well i'm also interested too, after all such a group should be more zealous and active in preaching and teaching God's word in our neighborhood than Jehovah's Witnesses!

Myer:


The problem is that you and Maximus69 are both right but you do not know it.
Can't you see that you are both quoting scriptures from the same bible to validate your arguments?
I don't know if it's as you say the devil's work or God's work cos the bible as i said is full of contradictions.

In certain verses, it claims Jesus is God, in others Jesus admits he's not God.

When you read the scriptures well Sir, with open mind you will clear all contradictions. You don't have to accept what is taught, but you will see clearly the singular stand of the scriptures. But this can't be seen via a dishonesty heart.

So, if you have a honest heart, go find a good local church in your area that teaches and well grounded in God's word, not the one that will pamper or prey on your lust and strange desires for things. And ask all your questions there. You may find help.

Maximus69:


So Jesus' followers are supposed not to forsake the gathering of their group. Hebrew 10:24-25

Which group is teaching you this, so that interested persons can also associate with them and become enlightened like you?

You aren't facing discussion Sir. Distracting or deviation from what is being discussed isnt smart but cunning Sir.

I have asked you to open a new thread of yours if you want to discuss group fulfilling God's will Sir.

But here your deliberate mis-interpretation of the scriptures to mislead others is what we are discussing. Don't you think that is a greater evil.

Myer:


The problem is that you and Maximus69 are both right but you do not know it.
Can't you see that you are both quoting scriptures from the same bible to validate your arguments?
I don't know if it's as you say the devil's work or God's work cos the bible as i said is full of contradictions.

In certain verses, it claims Jesus is God, in others Jesus admits he's not God.

His problem is TRINITY!

Jesus is a messenger/servant of God.
He was an angel in heaven before God transformed his life into the womb of a virgin Jewish girl.
The title God was bestowed on so many other creatures {Exodus 7:1; Psalms 82:1,6} so Jesus being referred to as mighty God {Isaiah 9:6} doesn't mean he is the Almighty!
He became our everlasting father when he used his human life to purchase obedient humans whom Adam has sold to slavery for sin and death!
That's why the Bible referred to him as the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

So why will a sane person just ignore all other titles like
Son of Man/God, Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Last Adam, Teacher and Messiah (Christ) only to come and start insisting that this same person is the Almighty God who sent himself?

All because he was given the title "God"
What about Moses? Exodus 7:1
What about other angels? Psalms 82:1
What about Satan? 2Corinthians 4:4

Please his problem is just the TRINITY doctrine, that's why i want to cut off the unfruitful arguments by asking him to point to the Organization that's doing God's work in preaching and teaching people what he is saying now!

All his lengthy epistles is just to bury that question and i'm not that easy to be driven out of the point i'm interested in!

No matter what he's typing, the question will still be there for him to address!

hupernikao:


You aren't facing discussion Sir. Distracting or deviation from what is being discussed isnt smart but cunning Sir.

I have asked you to open a new thread of yours if you want to discuss group fulfilling God's will Sir.

But here your deliberate mis-interpretation of the scriptures to mislead others is what we are discussing. Don't you think that is a greater evil.

What is the name of the group doing God's work in our neighborhood today?

Maximus69:


What is the name of the group doing God's work in our neighborhood today?

The guy thought it's by arguments that souls could be won!

He never knew that people compare what they're learning to what can practically benefit them before believing. Act 17:11
Even Jesus had to kneel down to beg God so that his followers could be successful in their preaching and teaching assignment, because if it's not working, people will not believe as in trust their teaching!

Perhaps he need to be told that arguments without practical application which is expected to bring lasting benefits belongs to philosophers NOT believers!

TATIME:


The guy thought it's by arguments that souls could be won!

He never knew that people compare what they're learning to what can practically benefit them before believing. Act 17:11
Even Jesus had to kneel down to beg God so that his followers could be successful in their preaching and teaching assignment, because if it's not working, people will not believe as in trust their teaching!

Perhaps he need to be told that arguments without practical application which is expected to bring lasting benefits belongs to philosophers NOT believers!

What most of them don't realize is that they are teaching human philosophy NOT God's word.
Because God's word should be strong enough to convince people {Hebrew 4:12} working out what everyone could see {Matthew 5:15-16} unlike human philosophy that can't be seen nor felt! James 2:18-26

Maximus69:


His problem is TRINITY!

Jesus is a messenger/servant of God.
He was an angel in heaven before God transformed his life into the womb of a virgin Jewish girl.
The title God was bestowed on so many other creatures {Exodus 7:1; Psalms 82:1,6} so Jesus being referred to as mighty God {Isaiah 9:6} doesn't mean he is the Almighty!
He became our everlasting father when he used his human life to purchase obedient humans whom Adam has sold to slavery for sin and death!
That's why the Bible referred to him as the last Adam! 1Corinthians 15:45

So why will a sane person just ignore all other titles like
Son of Man/God, Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Last Adam, Teacher and Messiah (Christ) only to come and start insisting that this same person is the Almighty God who sent himself?

All because he was given the title "God"
What about Moses? Exodus 7:1
What about other angels? Psalms 82:1
What about Satan? 2Corinthians 4:4

Please his problem is just the TRINITY doctrine, that's why i want to cut off the unfruitful arguments by asking him to point to the Organization that's doing God's work in preaching and teaching people what he is saying now!

All his lengthy epistles is just to bury that question and i'm not that easy to be driven out of the point i'm interested in!

No matter what he's typing, the question will still be there for him to address!

Why do JW oppose the trinity doctrine?

If you say God created man in his own image, and man is Body, Spirit and Soul according to the bible. Do you not think God also manifests himself in 3 different forms? As Jehovah, Holy Spirit and Jesus?

hupernikao:


When you read the scriptures well Sir, with open mind you will clear all contradictions. You don't have to accept what is taught, but you will see clearly the singular stand of the scriptures. But this can't be seen via a dishonesty heart.

So, if you have a honest heart, go find a good local church in your area that teaches and well grounded in God's word, not the one that will pamper or prey on your lust and strange desires for things. And ask all your questions there. You may find help.

If you truly read the scriptures with an open and honest heart, you wouod have agreed with Maximus69. It is more believable that Jesus is not God than to believe that Jesus is God according to the scriptures.
But as I keep trying to help open your eyes, the bible is full of contradictions. Both of you are right on this issue.

Myer:


If you truly read the scriptures with an open and honest heart, you wouod have agreed with Maximus69. It is more believable that Jesus is not God than to believe that Jesus is God according to the scriptures.
But as I keep trying to help open your eyes, the bible is full of contradictions. Both of you are right on this issue.

Okay Sir.

Myer:


Why do JW oppose the trinity doctrine?

If you say God created man in his own image, and man is Body, Spirit and Soul according to the bible. Do you not think God also manifests himself in 3 different forms? As Jehovah, Holy Spirit and Jesus?

The bolded is part of the misconceptions taught by trinitarians!

Man is a living soul, at death we seize to exist completely, nothing survives us at death! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

God and Jesus are separate persons {Psalms 110:1} but the holy spirit is not a person, it's the active force of God. Humans were created in God's image simply means possess some qualities like LOVE, JUSTICE, WISDOM and POWER. These qualities is the only difference between human and animals, but at death both human and animals are equal! Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

So the ability to see, touch, feel, speak, hear, and do so many other things like impregnating a female is carried out by different parts of the human body, but God uses his holy spirit to accomplish all things, unlike we humans that needed to get to where a person is before we can make him do what he wouldn't have done ordinarily, God uses his holy spirit to do all things!

So there is nothing like three in one neither in God or man!

@Myer

It's incomplete if i don't answer your first question!

Why do JWs oppose the Trinity doctrine?

Well, it's because the teaching is demonic, it is the main reason why the Churches of Christendom have failed woefully to make sound disciples like the JWs!

First of all, if Jesus is God himself, please how do you convince a sane person to imitate someone who is just pretending?
Jesus taught us to imitate him so that we can please his father the way he himself did, please if he himself is the father how do you think a sane person will find it easy to imitate someone pleasing himself?

Jesus said he came to do his father's will, but trinitarians say he himself is the father, please how do you comprehend that?

That's why i keep asking hupernikao to present a group that's doing the will of God today by sacrificing their time like Jesus did to preach and teach about God's kingdom in a better way than Jehovah's Witnesses?

The truth is there can't be any!


Because once they're taught that the person they're supposed to imitate is the same person they're trying to please, everything becomes difficult for them to comprehend. The question they will continue asking deep down in their heart is why must i sacrifice all my life to please God?

So it's a demonic teaching that was fabricated to mock God!