Greatihex:
exactly. The Messis, Ronaldos and Hazards etcs will still dominate in that era just like those ones in that era that dominated will still dominated in this same era. All that is needed is the talent and work.

Pastor, why you wan sneak Hazard name inside? Which era did he dominate?

afrodoc2:


Pastor, why you wan sneak Hazard name inside? Which era did he dominate?

Shakushaku Era.

BlueRayDick:


Shakushaku Era.

Excellent answer.

Raumdeuter, I would like to pick your brain on this subject matter, as you know our history has been soo distorted, it's difficult to know facts. it has been hotly debated that Ojukwu freed awolowo himself on the agreement that himself and the Yoruba would secede from Nigeria but upon his release changed his mind.
I just read an article on Sahara reporters that stirs my inquisition.
If they did infact agree, why do you think awolowo reneged on the agreement?

Cc blueraydick, larride, Ibime etc.

http://saharareporters.com/2011/11/26/my-last-interview-dim-chukwuemeka-ojukwu-rudolf-okonkwo

donjazet:
Raumdeuter, I would like to pick your brain on this subject matter, as you know our history has been soo distorted, it's difficult to know facts. it has been hotly debated that Ojukwu freed awolowo himself on the agreement that himself and the Yoruba would secede from Nigeria but upon his release changed his mind.
I just read an article on Sahara reporters that stirs my inquisition.
If they did infact agree, why do you think awolowo reneged on the agreement?

Cc blueraydick, larride, Ibime etc.

http://saharareporters.com/2011/11/26/my-last-interview-dim-chukwuemeka-ojukwu-rudolf-okonkwo

He is quoted here as saying if the Ibos were forced out he would take the Yorubas out as well. That is not the same thing as having an agreement to secede.

Starting such a topic here is risky though.

afrodoc2:


He is quoted here as saying if the Ibos were forced out he would take the Yorubas out as well. That is not the same thing as having an agreement to secede.

Starting such a topic here is risky though.

But the igbos were being massacred in thousands in the north, their properties were also being vandalized, that is by definition "force".
Secession was the only viable option at that point. I do think awolowo's promise further emboldened him to secede at that particular time.

The previous political debate indicate that irrespective of conflicting opinions, we can discuss anything here without a quagmire.

donjazet:


But the igbos were being massacred in thousands in the north, their properties were also being vandalized, that is by definition "force".
Secession was the only viable option at that point. I do think awolowo's promise further emboldened him to secede at that particular time.

The previous political debate indicate that irrespective of conflicting opinions, we can discuss anything here without quagmire.

WE here can, but there are entities roaming NL looking for this type of issue to cause trouble.

So kopfschmerzen has been ditched now, and donjazet and raumdeuter reunited

donjazet:
Raumdeuter, I would like to pick your brain on this subject matter, as you know our history has been soo distorted, it's difficult to know facts. it has been hotly debated that Ojukwu freed awolowo himself on the agreement that himself and the Yoruba would secede from Nigeria but upon his release changed his mind.
I just read an article on Sahara reporters that stirs my inquisition.
If they did infact agree, why do you think awolowo reneged on the agreement?

Cc blueraydick, larride, Ibime etc.

http://saharareporters.com/2011/11/26/my-last-interview-dim-chukwuemeka-ojukwu-rudolf-okonkwo

This is a very sensitive discuss that will flare tempers if it is discussed here. I've read at least 3 books on the war by Late Prof. Chukwuemeka Ike, Olusegun Obasanjo and Chinua Achebe.....There's this other one that detailed the trial of Banjo and Ifejuna ( My old man keeps these books)....

I can tell u there is no true version of the war story. Most people see it from their own side of the war.

From the Sahara reporter's link the interview showed Ojukwu and Awolowo had a discussion in which Ojukwu confirmed was not binding per se.

If we have this discussion it will get messy with some people claiming Awo is a sellout while some will claim He didn't make a promise to Ojukwu and in fact if he did the Igbos deserve it because Zik betrayed Awo and his AG back then when Zik abandoned his pact with Awo and joined forces with Tafawa Balewa to form a government in the first republic.

Honestly the topic will just worsen some old wounds

afrodoc2:
[/b]

WE here can, but there are entities roaming NL looking for this type of issue to cause trouble.

Raumdeuter himself is not a big fan of Ojukwu...and that's putting it very lightly.

larride:


Of course, I am in support of community policing. There has to be an arrangement that works. We can still have a federal police like the FBI while states take charge of their respective internal security through the local government.

Yeah exactly what I am saying. And the constitution should be clear about the separation of power. People shouldn't have to police communities far from their families. The police for every area should be people that are familiar with that area and everyone knows them there including their wives, children, church, mosque etc.

afrodoc2:
[/b]

WE here can, but there are entities roaming NL looking for this type of issue to cause trouble.

The fear of trouble makers can not and has never stopped us from discussing intelligently here.
When they come, we put them in their place.

donjazet:
Raumdeuter, I would like to pick your brain on this subject matter, as you know our history has been soo distorted, it's difficult to know facts. it has been hotly debated that Ojukwu freed awolowo himself on the agreement that himself and the Yoruba would secede from Nigeria but upon his release changed his mind.
I just read an article on Sahara reporters that stirs my inquisition.
If they did infact agree, why do you think awolowo reneged on the agreement?

Cc blueraydick, larride, Ibime etc.

http://saharareporters.com/2011/11/26/my-last-interview-dim-chukwuemeka-ojukwu-rudolf-okonkwo

But Gowon also claimed he released Awo. Gowon claimed he released him after plead with Awo to join his government. In fact he claimed he had to beg his wife to persuade him to join his government.

I find it hard to believe a military administrator on any of the regions could've released a prisoner of the federal government like Ojukwu claimed.



https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/191679-why-i-released-awolowo-from-prison-gowon.html

BlueRayDick:


This is a very sensitive discuss that will flare tempers if it is discussed here. I've read at least 3 books on the war by Late Prof. Chukwuemeka Ike, Olusegun Obasanjo and Chinua Achebe.....There's this other one that detailed the trial of Banjo and Ifejuna ( My old man keeps these books)....

I can tell u there is no true version of the war story. Most people see it from their own side of the war.

From the Sahara reporter's link the interview showed Ojukwu and Awolowo had a discussion in which Ojukwu confirmed was not binding per se.

If we have this discussion it will get messy with some people claiming Awo is a sellout while some will claim He didn't make a promise to Ojukwu and in fact if he did the Igbos deserve it because Zik betrayed Awo and his AG back then when Zik abandoned his pact with Awo and joined forces with Tafawa Balewa to form a government in the first republic.

Honestly the topic will just worsen some old wounds

Exactly right.

I have read Why we struck (Ademoyega), Because i am involved (Ojukwu), Not my will (Obasanjo), Madiebo's book, Sunset in Biafra (Amadi), Chukwuemeka Ike's novel (Sunset at Dawn)

The story you read depends on who is telling it.

BlueRayDick:


This is a very sensitive discuss that will flare tempers if it is discussed here. I've read at least 3 books on the war by Late Prof. Chukwuemeka Ike, Olusegun Obasanjo and Chinua Achebe.....There's this other one that detailed the trial of Banjo and Ifejuna ( My old man keeps these books)....

I can tell u there is no true version of the war story. Most people see it from their own side of the war.

From the Sahara reporter's link the interview showed Ojukwu and Awolowo had a discussion in which Ojukwu confirmed was not binding per se.

If we have this discussion it will get messy with some people claiming Awo is a sellout while some will claim He didn't make a promise to Ojukwu and in fact if he did the Igbos deserve it because Zik betrayed Awo and his AG back then when Zik abandoned his pact with Awo and joined forces with Tafawa Balewa to form a government in the first republic.

Honestly the topic will just worsen some old wounds

@ the bolded, there is already likely version as to why that happened. Awo and zik had formed an alliance earlier in the 50's which went awry.

See this article I read below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2018/08/the-problem-of-retrogressive-politics-in-nigeria-4/

donjazet:

The fear of trouble makers can not and has never stopped us from discussing intelligently here.
When they come, we put them in their place.

Why you stubborn?

You can be intellectually intelligent, but also be emotionally intelligent.

This is the kind of argument that started the war. E don happen. E don happen.

MAke we no let the mistakes of our ancestors still dey cause divide among us.

odizeey:


Why you stubborn?

You can be intellectually intelligent, but also be emotionally intelligent.

This is the kind of argument that started the war. E don happen. E don happen.

MAke we no let the mistakes of our ancestors still dey cause divide among us.

His egungun always likes express.

afrodoc2:


Exactly right.

I have read Why we struck (Ademoyega), Because i am involved (Ojukwu), Not my will (Obasanjo), Madiebo's book, Sunset in Biafra (Amadi), Chukwuemeka Ike's novel (Sunset at Dawn)

The story you read depends on who is telling it.

Exactly. There's a recent one by Alabi Isama that bàbà hate Obasanjo like mad ; he claimed Obasanjo is a coward that took other people's shine in the war effort. He claimed all those glowing words Obasanjo used to qualify himself in his book "My Command" were all lies.

When he was going to media houses creating awareness about his book, Alabi Isama claimed Obasanjo while fleeing the battle field was shot in the buttocks . I bust laughter that day ehn.

Everybody that participated in the war and wrote a book is telling the story from their perspective

nihilistjnr:


Raumdeuter himself is not a big fan of Ojukwu...and that's putting it very lightly.

Exactly why I want to hear from him, because I believe he can present a credible source that will counter Ojukwu's account.

A40:
Hahahaha obviously not

ahn ahn. David Luiz still try now. But for his Judas behavior and his gaffs he would have been a legend. The jury is still out for kovacic and Jorginho.

donjazet:

Exactly why I want to hear from him, because I believe he can present a credible source that will counter Ojukwu's account.

But I just don't want you doing this on your day off and I don't want you to settle for a cycle or two for a breakdown in the future of the lockdown and social distancing that you have to fill form and wait to be given a date to come for the test to be given a date to come for the test to be given a date to come for the test to be given a date to begin your own research in a new way of life and how you can share it with anyone you know that stay in Lagos and you want to get tested for free and you can share it with anyone you want me the most direct path towards the future

odizeey:


Why you stubborn?
You can be intellectually intelligent, but also be emotionally intelligent.
This is the kind of argument that started the war. E don happen. E don happen.
MAke we no let the mistakes of our ancestors still dey cause divide among us.

I am not emotionally attached to the subject matter. I am only curious to know accurate Nigerian history.
We were not taught our history in school, so for one to make a better assertion on our history, one ha to listen to both sides of the argument.

We have discussed controversial topics here before, I don't get this sudden cold fear.

BlueRayDick:


Exactly. There's a recent one by Alabi Isama that bàbà hate Obasanjo like mad ; he claimed Obasanjo is a coward that took other people's shine in the war effort. He claimed all those glowing words Obasanjo used to qualify himself in his book "My Command" were all lies.

When he was going to media houses creating awareness about his book, Alabi Isama claimed Obasanjo while fleeing the battle field was shot in the buttocks . I bust laughter that day ehn.

Everybody that participated in the war and wrote a book is telling the story from their perspective

Hahaha. Yeah i remember Isama and his campaign against Obasanjo.

To be fair he was only saying what many had said for several years. Right from my primary school days i had heard that Obasanjo only benefited from the work done by Benjamin Adekunle. In essence Black Scorpion set the table, only for OBJ to come and eat the food.

nihilistjnr:


Raumdeuter himself is not a big fan of Ojukwu...and that's putting it very lightly.

Well he isn't a big fan of Awolowo if I remember correctly. Plus he is from Ogbomoso, background states he has beef because of the Awo-Akintola saga.

pamcode:
Well he isn't a big fan of Awolowo if I remember correctly. Plus he is from Ogbomoso, background states he has beef because of the Awo-Akintola saga.

I wonder if Desola is still active. She was his partner in arms back then. I haven't visited the politics section in years.

pamcode:
Well he isn't a big fan of Awolowo if I remember correctly. Plus he is from Ogbomoso, background states he has beef because of the Awo-Akintola saga.

I don't know how much I have a very good morning and am very happy with my diet but still no dey of my diet for you and your site has to go and I don't know how I would be a great year to get a good credit for you and your family for your life

BlueRayDick:


Exactly. There's a recent one by Alabi Isama that bàbà hate Obasanjo like mad ; he claimed Obasanjo is a coward that took other people's shine in the war effort. He claimed all those glowing words Obasanjo used to qualify himself in his book "My Command" were all lies.

When he was going to media houses creating awareness about his book, Alabi Isama claimed Obasanjo while fleeing the battle field was shot in the buttocks . I bust laughter that day ehn.

Everybody that participated in the war and wrote a book is telling the story from their perspective

It is unarguable that Obasanjo led the final assault that finally conquered biafra, so we can easily discredit that.

However, of your own personal opinion, do you think the refusal to allow the secession of biafra was the right decision?

donjazet:
Raumdeuter, I would like to pick your brain on this subject matter, as you know our history has been soo distorted, it's difficult to know facts. it has been hotly debated that Ojukwu freed awolowo himself on the agreement that himself and the Yoruba would secede from Nigeria but upon his release changed his mind.
I just read an article on Sahara reporters that stirs my inquisition.
If they did infact agree, why do you think awolowo reneged on the agreement?

Cc blueraydick, larride, Ibime etc.

http://saharareporters.com/2011/11/26/my-last-interview-dim-chukwuemeka-ojukwu-rudolf-okonkwo

There are different accounts of what happened during the war and each account is skewed to the narrative the author wants to pass across.

I’ll pass on this topic pls.

eph12:

Yeah exactly what I am saying. And the constitution should be clear about the separation of power. People shouldn't have to police communities far from their families. The police for every area should be people that are familiar with that area and everyone knows them there including their wives, children, church, mosque etc.

I agree wholeheartedly.

https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/excitement-as-calabar-port-takes-delivery-of-four-shiploads-of-pms.html

This is the kind of news I want to be hearing.

Decongest Lagos Port.

larride:
https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/excitement-as-calabar-port-takes-delivery-of-four-shiploads-of-pms.html

This is the kind of news I want to be hearing.

Decongest Lagos Port.

But come to think of it stronger and you want me more about you doing what I can and you are you doing boss for you and your smiling emojis is the most beautiful experiences in my close world and I am so glad you are in Lagos and you want to get tested for the best thing is to go there and be sure I can make you feel like you have to fill form and wait to be given a date for your wedding and you will not be able to know what to eat when you are well to you is not a good fit and you are in Lagos and you want to get tested and you can share it with

donjazet:


I am not emotionally attached to the subject matter. I am only curious to know accurate Nigerian history.
We were not taught our history in school, so for one to make a better assertion on our history, one ha to listen to both sides of the argument.

We have discussed controversial topics here before, I don't get this sudden cold fear.

I think history proved Ojukwu to be an unprincipled power-hungry false prophet.

I mean this guy led 3 million people to their deaths in a suicidal war effort, and then ran away instead pay the supreme sacrifice for the cause he supposedly believed in.

He then came back not only to accept a full pardon, but actually run for President of the country he tried to secede from.

He was even buried with full military honours

I don't know how anyone wouldn't consider the man a villain. His life(and death) after coming back to Nigeria was an insult to everyone who died on BOTH sides of the war.