pablobellins:
lol; i will do well not to discuss this with you. It will only lead to arguments i cant win, neither can you.

The emboldened right there is one of the problems with Nigerians self-believing intellectuals, thinking argument is all about win/lose affair. Most of you all don't even know what it means to argue.

Righteousness89:

I will Tell u about the Blood of JESUS Christ!
But First, The GOD I know and Bible I have does not portray GOD As Fetish!
The Central Point of Salvation in the Bibleis Blood. Because Blood represents Life.

The "central point" of Salvation is not blood but life. Blood is a symbol in this case used to mean life. Imagine if blood was all it took, a simple cut to the hand would have sufficed. Instead, He had to give up his life, and no other kind of sacrifice would suffice.

Righteousness89:

In the Old Testament, Sacrifices of animals were used to Atone for the sins of the people.

Again, the animals in question had to die, not simply have their bloodshed on the altar. Life was what was required!

Righteousness89:
All that was used as a symbol for What is to Come.. The ALPHA and OMEGA, the ALMIGHTY GOD Decides . I am only a mere Creature. My duty is to Follow HIM.
Today we don't need all that as THE BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST has taken care of that.
All we need to do is to Follow..
The Clay cannot ask the PORTER , What doeth thou?
We are mere clay and GOD ALMIGHTY is our Porter. All we need do is to Follow..
GOD BLESS YOU

Again, blood is just the symbol, an abstract for life!

Jesus did not abolish, nor change the Old Covenant. Those who do not make it into the Kingdom of God will likely be subjected to judgment by the standards set in the Old Covenant - yes, the same covenant that lists animal sacrifices and whatnot. The old Covenant is just as valid today as it was 1000's of years ago when God ratified it with the Children of Israel.

pablobellins:
So have been re-reading the bible all over again. I noticed That God in the old testament liked and tolerated fetish things. What prompted me to create this thread is the height of it all so far which i read in exodus 24:8. Like, that is all the fetish things idol worshippers do these days.

Am also aware this fetishness is no longer practiced again today; what changed? Why did God decided to stop? If it was he who actually decided to put an end to it; can we then say God changed?

And please dont come and tell me about the blood of jesus.

Cos at a time; God actually do eat this sacrifices(Gen 15:9-10 skip to 17)

Now we are told our praises, worships and offerings is what God eats.

Cc: Lalasticlala
cc: mynd44
Cc: Righteousness89
cc: OAM4j
cc:MuttleyLaff
Cc:Barristter07
Cc:freshboi88

God's word is to be taught not for you to read and grasp it on your own!

Jesus taught people and sent them out to teach others, if you're not ready to learn from those Jesus dispatched out to go and teach people from house to house you will end up hating the Bible!

Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching and teaching for the past 100 years now, last year marks a century that this group has been preaching and teaching people in their homes!

From 1919 ~ 2019 until Covid19 made them to call off all their kingdom evangelizers globally, they're now teaching ONLY those who have been welcoming them into their homes.

Try to find them and study the Bible with them, you'll be surprised that what you are reading requires deeper thought than most readers just take it.

If you want to test their intellect on this, you can engage me in a discussion now but i can only do a little because the owner of the book says we must TEACH you FACE TO FACE!

Maximus69:


God's word is to be taught not for you to read and grasp it on your own!

Jesus taught people and sent them out to teach others, if you're not ready to learn from those Jesus dispatched out to go and teach people from house to house you will end up hating the Bible!

Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching and teaching for the past 100 years now, last year marks a century that this group has been preaching and teaching people in their homes!

From 1919 ~ 2019 until Covid19 made them to call off all their kingdom evangelizers globally, they're now teaching ONLY those who have been welcoming them into their homes.

Try to find them and study the Bible with them, you'll be surprised that what you are reading requires deeper thought than most readers just take it.

If you want to test their intellect on this, you can engage me in a discussion now but i can only do a little because the owner of the book says we must TEACH you FACE TO FACE!

Seriously i always take JW tooo serious; i always love to engage them. I would hv love to be one, if not for some contradicting beliefs. You guys practice christianity best.

ghostofsparta:
The emboldened right there is one of the problems with Nigerians self-believing intellectuals, thinking argument is all about win/lose affair. Most of you all don't even know what it means to argue.

Ok; educate me on what argument is, if not a bone of contestion whr someone has to come up top.

Kobojunkie:
The "central point" of Salvation is not blood but life. Blood is a symbol in this case used to mean life. Imagine if blood was all it took, a simple cut to the hand would have sufficed. Instead, He had to give up his life, and no other kind of sacrifice would suffice.
Again, the animals in question had to die, not simply have their bloodshed on the altar. Life was what was required!

Again, blood is just the symbol, an abstract for life!

Jesus did not abolish, nor change the Old Covenant. Those who do not make it into the Kingdom of God will likely be subjected to judgment by the standards set in the Old Covenant - yes, the same covenant that lists animal sacrifices and whatnot. The old Covenant is just as valid today as it was 1000's of years ago when God ratified it with the Children of Israel.

Somewhere in your last paragraph sir; what will be the judgement standard for those before the old covenant?

pablobellins:
Somewhere in your last paragraph sir; what will be the judgement standard for those before the old covenant?

Hint: What did Peter say Jesus did while He was in the grave?

pablobellins:
Ok; educate me on what argument is, if not a bone of contestion whr someone has to come up top.

Join this WhatsApp group I created and let's discuss it all there - - - -> https://chat .whatsapp .com /FZv8b0m8HkeGJytOydwy86 (remember to delete the spaces between)

ghostofsparta:
Join this WhatsApp group I created and let's discuss it all there - - - -> https://chat .whatsapp .com /FZv8b0m8HkeGJytOydwy86

Not a good idea for me; i tend to give in and think about what i hear or see... I think i will do well to avoid anything you will hv to say on this particular topic. But hey; we could discuss extensively(argue) on football

pablobellins:
So have been re-reading the bible all over again. I noticed That God in the old testament liked and tolerated fetish things. What prompted me to create this thread is the height of it all so far which i read in exodus 24:8. Like, that is all the fetish things idol worshippers do these days.

Am also aware this fetishness is no longer practiced again today; what changed? Why did God decided to stop? If it was he who actually decided to put an end to it; can we then say God changed?

Fistly your tittle is misleading . Maybe others didn’t observe . It’s Jesus the scripture was attributed to not God

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And please dont come and tell me about the blood of jesus.

There are two kinds of ignorance . One is lack of knowledge , the other is ignoring knowledge .I guess you have chosen the other

Cos at a time; God actually do eat this sacrifices(Gen 15:9-10 skip to 17)

wrong God does not eat sacrifice as attributed to your so called ancestral gods.

Sacrifices were offered by fire .the fire converts the sacrifice to a sweet aroma It is the aroma that we’re pleasing to him . Until the death of Jesus the untimate sacrifice who’s death was accepted by fire and became aroma and based on that whatever we give to God today is converted to aroma even our work of service of prayers

pablobellins:
@MuttleyLaff you share the same opinion as the rest.

Even 'I' will hate to think that the Lord God Almighty is Changeable. I just hoped and wish one of you will think outside the box to give a different opinion.

Some has to have a diffrent opinion, atleast one person.

Lalasticlala fp.

The Bible never said God cannot change in his opration. He does change his operation . He even repents . He changes his mind . Is that not why we pray and intercede for siners?

Exodus 32:11-13
And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people . . . repent of this evil against thy people. . . . .And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

pablobellins:
; what will be the judgement standard for those before the old covenant?

Conscience . The conscience is Gods witness in every generation

petra1:
The Bible never said God cannot change in his opration. He does change his operation . He even repents . He changes his mind . Is that not why we pray and intercede for siners?

Exodus 32:11-13
And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people . . . repent of this evil against thy people. . . . .And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Gbam!

The method can change, but the method Handler doesn't change.

If you know, you know. Who no know, well sorry for you.

petra1:


Conscience . The conscience is Gods witness in every generation

Then by this; you mean the end should justify the means.

MuttleyLaff:
Gbam!

The method can change, but the method Handler doesn't change.

If you know, you know. Who no know, well sorry for you.

Actually i know. But some christians still perform fetishness, say the C&S

pablobellins:
Seriously i always take JW tooo serious; i always love to engage them. I would hv love to be one, if not for some contradicting beliefs. You guys practice christianity best.

Something could rightly be pronounced as CONTRADICTING when those making use of it are not ORGANIZED and ORDERLY!

For instance, how would you view a man who stands at a distance looking at a group of people well organized and orderly in everything they do, but complaining that what they're saying is contradicting?

Please contradiction is peculiar to disarray not orderliness!

So it's the contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines of their opposers that you're contemplating instead of concentrating on the outcome of the teachings and doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 7:16-18

God bless you!

Maximus69:


Something could rightly be pronounced as CONTRADICTING when those making use of it are not ORGANIZED and ORDERLY!

For instance, how would you view a man who stands at a distance looking at a group of people well organized and orderly in everything they do, but complaining that what they're saying is contradicting?

Please contradiction is peculiar to disarray not orderliness!

So it's the contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines of their opposers that you're contemplating instead of concentrating on the outcome of the teachings and doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 7:16-18

God bless you!

here i was hoping you will ask about one of this belief i find inappropiate if not contradictn

pablobellins:
Then by this; you mean the end should justify the means.

Peter said nothing about the conscience being the guide.
According to Peter, Jesus preached to the spirits that were there at the time before the Law of Moses.

Kobojunkie:

Peter said nothing about the conscience being the guide.
According to Peter, Jesus preached to the spirits that were there at the time before the Law of Moses.

Bad Joke!

pablobellins:
Actually i know. But some christians still perform fetishness, say the C&S

Some people are still rooted to the ground and not in the air soaring and flying because they dont appreciate
and embrace the law of aerodynamics that defies and renders impotent and powerless, talking here of the law, that obeys the principle of gravity (i.e. what goes up, must come down)

pablobellins:
here i was hoping you will ask about one of this belief i find inappropiate if not contradictn

I know most of these things because i was once a Muslim, and i've listened to so many critics of JWs.

So i know you're also experiencing the same thing that's why i said you should ask them questions FACE TO FACE on this issue.

But all the same let me hear what you've got perhaps it's not the usual, i just want you to know that now i can handle any question raised against JWs but since you can't see me, there are expressions you will notice in my face to know if i truthfully believe (trust) in what i'm saying or i'm just being credulous!

As a former military intelligence officer, i can decode if someone is just mimicking what he is programmed to say or if he's certain of what he's saying!

Please share your experience with me, i'm having some business deals for now but never mind i'm still very much with you!

Maximus69:


I know most of these things because i was once a Muslim, and i've listened to so many critics of JWs.

So i know you're also experiencing the same thing that's why i said you should ask them questions FACE TO FACE on this issue.

But all the same let me hear what you've got perhaps it's not the usual, i just want you to know that now i can handle any question raised against JWs but since you can't see me, there are expressions you will notice in my face to know if i truthfully believe (trust) in what i'm saying or i'm just being credulous!

As a former military intelligence officer, i can decode if someone is just mimicking what he is programmed to say or if he's certain of what he's saying!

Please share your experience with me, i'm having some business deals for now but never mind i'm still very much with you!

well; its just one in particular. On the issue of Blood Trans

pablobellins:
Then by this; you mean the end should justify the means.

Conscience is a witness of right and wrong. That is why we have judicial system in every culture.
Murder,stealing will always be wrong. God judge people based on the light they have

petra1:


Conscience is a witness of right and wrong. That is why we have judicial system in every culture.
Murder,stealing will always be wrong. God judge people based on the light they have

No; i think conscience is the inner judge of right or wrong. And not the witness. There are times i do bad things my conscience dont frown on.

pablobellins:
Somewhere in your last paragraph sir; what will be the judgement standard for those before the old covenant?

petra1:
Conscience . The conscience is Gods witness in every generation

pablobellins:
Then by this; you mean the end should justify the means.

petra1:
Conscience is a witness of right and wrong. That is why we have judicial system in every culture.
Murder,stealing will always be wrong. God judge people based on the light they have

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MuttleyLaff:
Some people come into each other lives to sharpen themselves

The truth is priceless especially in these times its rare
and the only people who are mad at anyone writing the truth, are those people who are living a lie

Jesus flogged and chased some people with a whip

[img]https://s7/images/MuttleyFearlessWolf-copy.jpg[/img]
Caption it: Stress and Robustness Test

That picture is a typical case of, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
Unleash the dogs, set them free with a cat, straying with no care in the world
Will their nature get the better of them?
Will self-restraint, self-control and self-discipline rule the day?

Looks like there is no situation problem going on in the picture
The fox can be set to guard the henhouse and nothing will happen to the chicken.
The cat can be set to guard the cream/milk and nothing will happen to the cream/milk.

What will become of Satan, if My resting Hand on Satan is lifted off?
What will become of Adam and Eve, if I trust them to be left alone with an unguarded tree they are forbidden not to eat from?
When faced with an adverse condition, will Satan withstand it or will Adam and Eve overcome it?
What choice will they make and/or take?

Let the die be cast. Whichever way the wind blows, God will be at the end of the choice(s) made

The destination, is that picturesque

Your teacher, is so spot on with that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Adam and Eve's conscience, prior to eating the fruit, importantly only had to contend with whether it was right or wrong to eat the fruit

I once read that the true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching
but Adam and Eve, prior to eating the fruit, because of lack of experiences (i.e. as in, no experiential knowledge of Good and Evil) were character-less.

The faculties of the spirit, comprises of: Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition,
but conscience, zeroing on it, after the spiritual disconnect brought, about by death, from eating the fruit, became marred

Conscience, then, being no longer under the influence of divine grace and greatly weakened, can no more be trusted to do its work
and so man's character, that needs to be shaped or built up, had experiences to look up to for this to be done
Man's character is shaped from his/her scraps with danger, from cuts and bruises of life, from pleasurables, thrills, sweetness of life etcetera

Mr A's character is different to Mr B's character
This is because our different experiences, shapes our individual character,
and its practically, character that determines what right or wrong action we take about a matter

I totally agree with you that Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect.
There was no need for them to have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil
They didn't need to personally experience all that is "Beautiful" and all that is "Adversity"

Actually they had more than one rule (e.g. rule to multiply, replenish etcetera)
and significantly only had one specified forbidden rule,
Its directive was clear and pretty straightforward about not to eat the fruit of the, "the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil"

I believe their conscience guided them how to behave towards the tree
and even reminded them not to eat the fruit of the tree
This is evident from the conversation that transpired between Eve and the serpent
Eve wrestled with her conscience, trying to justify the reason, why she ought to eat the fruit

They had a sense of right and wrong but overruled conscience.
Eve's defence is, from being deceived
and Adam's defence, was to blame God, saying God was responsible

Anyway, they had a guilty conscience afterwards over their "... be like God, knowing good and evil" desires, and ultimately ended up hiding from God
This obviously, after they decoded that, they have been sold down the river by the serpent
and that their hopes, expectation and desire to ... be like God, knowing good and evil" actually comes with a huge price
The enormity of what, knowing good and evil, means, and the extent of it, was soul wrecking and wrenching experience,
Eve was inconsolable (i.e. Genesis 3:16)

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was tucked away in a corner of the Garden of Eden
It was prominently and centrally placed in the middle of the Garden of Eden alongside with the Tree of Life.
It is because of the Tree of Life that they were evicted from continuing living in Eden, barred from reentering and prevented from squatting

From eating the fruit, death, the dividing line, has separated them from God.
The spiritual disconnect, came in from eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
Now they have to take on and put up with the spewing contents of death's pandora box

Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain, is one of the by-products of eating the fruit

Sorrow actually made an appearance first before murder came on to the scene
To God that was mediocre sorrow, as so declared, sorrow will be greatly multiplied to experience

Once they ate it, they opened a "Pandora box" or floodgates for all sorts of by-products

As earlier mentioned, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Adversity".

The "Beautiful", is, as in, all and everything in between, thats dandy and good
and the "Adversity", is, as in, every hardship, bad and ugly, difficult or unpleasant situation that possibly can happen.

Once they ate, it paved the way to begin having first hand experiences of several parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
They have become gods, to begin judging between beautiful and adversity.
Good times, bad times, what's pretty, what's ugly, what's bitter, what's sweet, what's pain, what's pleasure, what's orgasmic, what's frigid,
screaming, laughing, smiling, crying, commotion, tranquility, mourning, partying etcetera

Essentially after eating the fruit, the whole shebang spectrum will unleash into the world.

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frank\317 are you of the view, it is unfair on Adam and Eve for God to trust them
and be left alone with the The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

petra1, but some people having a seared conscience

MuttleyLaff:

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petra1, but some people having a seared conscience

Yes true. People can violate the conscience. But conscience in its neutrality is pure.

Adam and even already had a "law" they dont need any conscientiousnes except its based on the instruction or "law God gave them but they acted against the instruction. Conscience ought to fall in line with the light they have been given

pablobellins:
No; i think conscience is the inner judge of right or wrong. And not the witness. There are times i do bad things my conscience dont frown on.

That's true . But when you do bad you know. Even though you justify it but you still know it's bad. E.g revenge .

petra1:
Yes true. People can violate the conscience. But conscience in its neutrality is pure.

Adam and even already had a "law" they dont need any conscientiousnes except its based on the instruction or "law God gave them but they acted against the instruction. Conscience ought to fall in line with the light they have been given

Well, true, true, well said.

What Makes Man?
Or better still what is man?
Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul, so Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet) and Spirit. The Soul has the body and spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up in a human being body suit

The spirit and soul have different faculties, and so the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, whilst the faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions and the Body has 5 faculties of senses, which are, to see, via the eyes, hear, via the ears, feel, via applicable part of the body, smell, via the nose and taste, via the mouth.

petra1:
That's true . But when you do bad you know. Even though you justify it but you still know it's bad. E.g revenge .

Some people have lost that ability to know bad from good. It's similar to losing sense of taste, smell, sight, hearing, feeling pain or not et cetera

pablobellins:
well; its just one in particular. On the issue of Blood Trans

Thanks for expressing the deeper things in your heart with me!

Blood transfusion became a means of life saving method when people discovered that blood could be made available to people suffering from shortage of blood during treatment.
So because of it's significance majority buy the idea, but Jehovah's Witnesses always look into matters critically before we join the subscribers! 1Thessalonians 5:21
Our people began a research on the issue to know if it's benefitial or detrimental, our main concern is Godly wisdom not the way people view things. We discovered that of all the laws God gave the Israelites, one seems to be there before, during and after the laws was no more in effect, this is the law having to do with blood! Genesis 9:4 ~ Leviticus 3:17~ Act 15:29
Note that this instruction runs through the life of God's ancient people, even animals strangled must not be eaten because the blood is not drained.
So our brothers began praying fervently on the matter and doing thorough research on it's complications, they discovered that the blood of each creature is safe only when preserved in the body of the creature, if it should be shared with any other creature something disastrous will be the result.
That's why our brothers work thing out by going for alternatives instead of blood transfusion.
Granted it may cost the life of the one who rejects it now but there is no certainty that the patient will live. And the aftermath may be worse than what people are trying to prevent.
I personally had an experience many years ago when a strange illness strike me, all the medicine my mother and the family applied didn't yield positivity so i was taken to the hospital where the doctor transfused blood in my body, then the sickness got worse, then i was taken to an herbalist who told my mother that the strange blood in my body must be drained first before he could treat me but he assured my mother that i'll live.
So my mother cried and cried because she believed in the doctors than the herbalist but frustration led her to the herbalist.
My friend, the man gave me a powder to lick and drink water afterwards, to everyone the blood came out through urine. It lasted for almost 20 minutes until i became a skeleton, then my mother started crying again, it was after the so called blood has been drained that the man began applying his own method of treatment and within the next two weeks i was discharged!

So if Jehovah's Witnesses say blood transfusion is not safe, i am not just on their side out of credulity i believe what they are saying because of my own personal experience!

MuttleyLaff:


Some people have lost that ability to know bad from good. It's similar to losing sense of taste, smell, sight, hearing, feeling pain or not et cetera

It’s true, then they are going to hell.

petra1:
It’s true, then they are going to hell.

Ouch. So, last bus stop, for hell, death and them, is the Lake of fire, then?