Rozz:
i wonder why it's such a big deal to him

That's the first (spiritual) language expected of a prospective servant of our God!

The secret is our God JEHOVAH is highly jealous so his prospective worshiper must possess the same attribute. Whenever we see anyone say confidently "I belong to so and so Religion" without hesitation, JWs will hook onto such a person like anything!

Because that's the spirit we first notice in Jehovah's sheep! You must be bold enough to say "this is where i worship and ours is the one and only form of worship approved by God" with that alone you've striked the heart of any JW, instantly we recognise that language and we'll say "this must be one of our lost brother (Jehovah's lost sheep)"

So don't be surprised when you see me call someone claiming Atheist, freethinker, Muslim, Buddhists or even traditionalist "my brother" know that i've heard him/her speak our language!

Once someone says "it doesn't matter anywhere you worship, there is nothing like group in God's plan" instantly JWs will say in our heart "this is a Babylonian"

Though the language still involves more than that but that's the first sign that a person is one of us, even if he's not yet worshiping with us, we're 100% sure that he/she is coming back to Jehovah's organization. Because there is no group that can maintain that culture, it belongs only to JEHOVAH'S PEOPLE! Isaiah 54:17

GRIMMJOE:
So now you believe in critical but not free thinking.

What determines if a thought is critical?

Is there a place I mentioned I don't believe in a critical thinking?

Read through through all my posts.

My issue is that the word critical thinking is so overused these days that it's already losing its meaning. For example, you can imagine you using critical thinking for free thinking. Nothing is free.

Note also that critical thinking isn't a freedom from influence but making the choice that seems right to you.

Sadly, I have seen the least people with the lowest critical thinking on NL claiming they are critical thinkers, especially our atheist brothers.

That word seems like a slogan now. I have seen the best of dullness displayed on NL by the presumed "critical thinking folks" than from those they always abuse of not thinking. Many claim atheist today to identify that he is thinking but dont know that becoming an atheist doesn't make you a wise person. Wisdom is learned and given. It must be deliberate or endowed.

I will leave this for another day.

GO & DON'T are options, this is where Free thinking comes in, what is the aim of going to work, after which you make a decision, you might not go to work and still achieve what you still wanted, or call in for a replacement.

The aim is not to GO to work or DON'T go to work, but achieve your goals irrespective of the scenario, and this is all possible through free thinking, you can't tell a dead body rain is falling, because no aim is there, at the end the dead body still won't go anywhere.

Summary: As long as we are alive we are responsible for our actions which is based on our decision, some chose to think, some just follow.

GRIMMJOE:
So now you believe in critical but not free thinking.

What determines if a thought is critical?

And on what determines if a thought is critical.

It simply means analysing properly the OPTIONS available to you to determine the actions that seems best to you.

Notice the CAP. Options.
So, critical thinking works within the influence it is exposed to, to honestly look at the options and analyze it properly to make a choice.

The choice weren't determined for you but it is placed within a determined options called influence.

hoopernikao:
GRIMMJOE

And it's very important to point this out to you. That

The one who claim to be an atheist
The one who serves Jesus
The one who claimed otherwise
The one who serves himself or
The one who think his thinking is free...

Are all influenced and working within the choices of life available to them. There decisions are based on influences available to them.

But note, every of this decisions have consequences and it's not determined by any of them or us.

You must always remember this. That your decisions even though are your decisions, they truly aren't as per influence.

Likewise the consequences at the end of the day won't be determined by you.

That is the limit placed on humanity.

This conversation is about knowing what's right and what's wrong, you proved this when you decided not to jump from a skyscraper.

hoopernikao:


He cant determined ahead of time what his consequences will be. He can't know and he can't choose his consequences.

What about you, don't you know the consequence of your action? not he, you

Rozz:
i wonder why it's such a big deal to him

JEHOVAH said worshipers of false gods will suffer shame! Isaiah 65:13
They will be ashamed to mention the place where they worship because it's only Jehovah's Organization that can be seen standing tall above all others when you look up! Micah 4:1; Matthew 5:14

That's why you're seeing all of them coming in to talk about Jehovah's mountain because it's not hidden, but ask them to point to their own shame will not permit them to do that. Maximus has said it all, whenever we see anyone confidently mention the name of Religion, we know he belongs to Jehovah the God whose worshipers are confident anytime anywhere! Daniel 3:16-18

GRIMMJOE:
GO & DON'T are options, this is where Free thinking comes in, what is the aim of going to work, after which you make a decision, you might not go to work and still achieve what you still wanted, or call in for a replacement.

The aim is not to GO to work or DON'T go to work, but achieve your goals irrespective of the scenario, and this is all possible through free thinking, you can't tell a dead body rain is falling, because no aim is there, at the end the dead body still won't go anywhere.

Summary: As long as we are alive we are responsible for our actions which is based on our decision, some chose to think, some just follow.

Your last paragraph is a big misconception common among those who don't believe in church.

Sadly, we all follow our influence whether you like it on not.

1. I never said you weren't responsible for your actions. It is your actions, your choice but they were determined within options and influence you are exposed to.

2. Your decisions though are yours, they are controlled within the subset of limited choices. That in itself limit your thinking.

3. Because you think before taking an action doesn't mean the actions is best or right and because you just follow without thinking doesn't determine the actions as wrong.

There are people who think unto destruction, there are people who follow unto life.

Don't ever feel critical thinking always leads to the right decision. Man's influence ends up determining how right you can be.

GRIMMJOE:
This conversation is about knowing what's right and what's wrong, you proved this when you decided not to jump from a skyscraper.

You are finding a side way out.

What makes him not jumping from the skyscraper right? The situation and scenario will determine that 1st, then the consequence of the actions will put a final decision on it.

You can decide not to jump and get shot by the untamed killer in the same building, you can decided to jump and still survive whichever way. Like I said, we have seen Plane Crash survival even at high speed which to human mind should be direct death.

You must take this well o

1. Life places your actions within limit bro, that is influence

2. Thinking alone is not evident of a right decision. Don't overate it.

3. Right decision is likely determine my what influence you have exposed yourself to all along. This also is influence.

hoopernikao:


Is there a place I mentioned I don't believe in a critical thinking?

Read through through all my posts.

My issue is that the word critical thinking is so overused these days that it's already losing its meaning. For example, you can imagine you using critical thinking for free thinking. Nothing is free.

Note also that critical thinking isn't a freedom from influence but making the choice that seems right to you.

Sadly, I have seen the least people with the lowest critical thinking on NL claiming they are critical thinkers, especially our atheist brothers.

That word seems like a slogan now. I have seen the best of dullness displayed on NL by the presumed "critical thinking folks" than from those they always abuse of not thinking. Many claim atheist today to identify that he is thinking but dont know that becoming an atheist doesn't make you a wise person. Wisdom is learned and given. It must be deliberate or endowed.

I will leave this for another day.

If it's people leave that thing, some claim to be atheist so that they can go wild.

GRIMMJOE:
If it's people leave that thing, some claim to be atheist so that they can go wild.

Well, as wide as they can go, the consequence of such actions aren't determined my their wildness. And the intelligence of their mind isn't determined by name changes or calling.

GRIMMJOE:
What about you, don't you know the consequence of your action? not he, you

Like I said, we all don't determine the consequences of our actions. It is a limit on humanity which I am part.

hoopernikao:


Your last paragraph is a big misconception common among those who don't believe in church.

Sadly, we all follow our influence whether you like it on not.

1. I never said you weren't responsible for your actions. It is your actions, your choice but they were determined within options and influence you are exposed to.

2. Your decisions though are yours, they are controlled within the subset of limited choices. That in itself limit your thinking.

3. Because you think before taking an action doesn't mean the actions is best or right and because you just follow without thinking doesn't determine the actions as wrong.

There are people who think unto destruction, there are people who follow unto life.

Don't ever feel critical thinking always leads to the right decision. Man's influence ends up determining how right you can be.

I didn't mention church in comment.

GRIMMJOE:
I didn't mention church in comment.

Sure, I know. But I said it is common among those people. I never even said you are among.

hoopernikao:


You are finding a side way out.

What makes him not jumping from the skyscraper right? The situation and scenario will determine that 1st, then the consequence of the actions will put a final decision on it.

You can decide not to jump and get shot by the untamed killer in the same building, you can decided to jump and still survive whichever way. Like I said, we have seen Plane Crash survival even at high speed which to human mind should be direct death.

You must take this well o

1. Life places your actions within limit bro, that is influence

2. Thinking alone is not evident of a right decision. Don't overate it.

3. Right decision is likely determine my what influence you have exposed yourself to all along. This also is influence.

Don't worry about people, you you're self know what right and what's wrong, yes?

hoopernikao:


Well, as wide as they can go, the consequence of such actions aren't determined my their wildness. And the intelligence of their mind isn't determined by name changes or calling.

But you already agreed they know the consequence.

hoopernikao:


Like I said, we all don't determine the consequences of our actions. It is a limit on humanity which I am part.

So you don't know what will happen if you jump from a skyscraper?

That's how a guy said you can't prove green is green, I said I can, I then asked him what color is this... till today I'm still waiting for my answer.

GRIMMJOE:
So you don't know what will happen if you jump from a skyscraper?

I have explained this to you in two different ways.

See again below.

Idea situation: Jump from skyscraper means death.

Real Situation:
We have seen people jump from skyscraper and survive.

We have seen people not jump from skyscraper even though it is one of the options available to them in such situations. But we have seen situations where the jumping is neglected yet the man still died via alternative route.

We have seen situations where a man jump and got held up by pole via his cloth or other things

This should let you know that there is different between consequences from legal, ideal, or rule. Real consequences is determined external to the person involved. You will determine it, you can presume it, but until it happened, you can't ascertian consequences.

GRIMMJOE:
That's how a guy said you can't prove green is green, I said I can, I then asked him what color is this... till today I'm still waiting for my answer.

Well, you definitely can prove color, but that prove is influenced by your surrounding, and subject to what your mind is exposed to.

GRIMMJOE:
But you already agreed they know the consequence.

I said they don't determine the consequences, that means they don't know. See consequences alone can be a lot of chain of actions you never thought of.

A man decided to go into 419 believing the consequences is he will be arrested and jailed since he is not an armed robber.

He was caught and handed over to a drunk police. Along the way the police parked and shot him dead.

Did he determines his final consequences? No. What led to his death? 419.

In his widest dream, what does he think his consequence is? Jail.

Life handles our consequences Sir.

You could see that in all these, at the end of the day man is truly not in control of anything but under influences of his limited choices and his undetermined consequences afterwards.

hoopernikao:


I have explained this to you in two different ways.

See again below.

Idea situation: Jump from skyscraper means death.

Real Situation:
We have seen people jump from skyscraper and survive.

We have seen people not jump from skyscraper even though it is one of the options available to them in such situations. But we have seen situations where the jumping is neglected yet the man still died via alternative route.

We have seen situations where a man jump and got held up by pole via his cloth or other things

This should let you know that there is different between consequences from legal, ideal, or rule. Real consequences is determined external to the person involved. You will determine it, you can presume it, but until it happened, you can't ascertian consequences.

What you just did is call free thinking, congratulations, you now known all possible consequence to your decision.

hoopernikao:


Well, you definitely can prove color, but that prove is influenced by your surrounding, and subject to what your mind is exposed to.

At the end of the day, it's still proved.

GRIMMJOE:
What you just did is call free thinking, congratulations, you now known all possible consequence to your decision.

You are only hiding behind your thoughts.

The list I gave you there is also subject to influence and knowledge I am exposed to. Situation can arise within this scenario that my mind couldn't captured.

What I did isn't even critical thinking talkless of no existing free thinking.

Consequences of your decisions aren't left in your hands bro. Take that to the bank.

We have seen the best of students with the best for opportunities become a street beggar. We have seen the son of king beg for bread. We have seen the a powerful nation subdued by a common people.

You must look at life intently not on surface of thinking.

I told you that thinking through is not same as rightness. That alone should informed you that consequences aren't determined or known by our thoughts.

GRIMMJOE:
At the end of the day, it's still proved.

Yes you proved based on your influence, confined within the choices of influence presented to you.

hoopernikao:


I said they don't determine the consequences, that means they don't know. See consequences alone can be a lot of chain of actions you never thought of.

A man decided to go into 419 believing the consequences is he will be arrested and jailed since he is not an armed robber.

He was caught and handed over to a drunk police. Along the way the police parked and shot him dead.

Did he determines his final consequences? No. What led to his death? 419.

In his widest dream, what does he think his consequence is? Jailed
Life handles our consequences Sir.

You could see that in all these, at the end of the day man is truly not in control of anything but under influences of his limited choices and his undetermined consequences afterwards.

You're getting good at this, the guy that thought he will only be arrested and jail is not freethinking.

But you just did, I'm sure you'll also free thinking of a better way to solve your financial problems.

This is not so different from a thief steals a cube of sugar but received jungle justices, if that thief was a free thinker, he will be influenced by his cognitive, buy was influenced by his friends calling him armour tank, nobody fit see you.

hoopernikao:


You are only hiding behind your thoughts.

The list I gave you there is also subject to influence and knowledge I am exposed to. Situation can arise within this scenario that my mind couldn't captured.

What I did isn't even critical thinking talkless of no existing free thinking.

Consequences of your decisions aren't left in your hands bro. Take that to the bank.

We have seen the best of students with the best for opportunities become a street beggar. We have seen the son of king beg for bread. We have seen the a powerful nation subdued by a common people.

You must look at life intently not on surface of thinking.

I told you that thinking through is not same as rightness. That alone should informed you that consequences aren't determined or known by our thoughts.

And that's why you free think, no stones is left unturned, wonder why some atheist have held their ground for almost 10 years, they have absolutely, critically seen it all.

But that's not all, if tomorrow a new set of religion comes out, believe me I'll be one of the first people running to hear what they have to say, in which at the end of the day I make my decision based on free thinking.

GRIMMJOE:
And that's why you free think, no stones is left unturned, wonder why some atheist have held their ground for almost 10 years, they have absolutely, critically seen it all.

But that's not all, if tomorrow a new set of religion comes out, believe me I'll be one of the first people running to hear what they have to say, in which at the end of the day I make my decision based on free thinking.

Firstly, what I wrote isn't free but subjected.

Secondly, no atheist is objective in thinking, leave those lyrics. Objectivity is relative.

Whatever an atheist holds is still based on influence he is exposed to. What he calls right are based on what he knows.

I haven't seen any atheist critical in thinking that doesn't accept the truth of the scriptures but only just want to hold his stand for personal reasons.

What you called critical from an atheist is dogmatic that you accuse the church people for too.

Most atheist, firstly are standing on a ground of false teaching they were exposed to before rejecting the religion. The limit of their decision is based on what they were exposed to.

From my survey 98% of atheist I have seen, know nothing about the teaching of the scriptures, yet they claim they know it more than those who preaches it.

Even on literal level of the scriptures not even inspiration of the writing, an atheist usually suspend his thinking and objectivity.

You are a product of your past, present influence, hence a man exposed to wrong doctrine cannot determine a true doctrine because he never knew any.

GRIMMJOE:
You're getting good at this, the guy that thought he will only be arrested and jail is not freethinking.

But you just did, I'm sure you'll also free thinking of a better way to solve your financial problems.

This is not so different from a thief steals a cube of sugar but received jungle justices, if that thief was a free thinker, he will be influenced by his cognitive, buy was influenced by his friends calling him armour tank, nobody fit see you.

All you said are still within the limit of choices. And such consequences aren't determined by you. Presumption is not same as realities. You must accept what is true and reconsider your principles.

hoopernikao:


Firstly, what I wrote isn't free but subjected.

Secondly, no atheist is objective in thinking, leave those lyrics. Objectivity is relative.

Whatever an atheist holds is still based on influence he is exposed to. What he calls right are based on what he knows.

I haven't seen any atheist critical in thinking that doesn't accept the truth of the scriptures but only just want to hold his stand for personal reasons.

What you called critical from an atheist is dogmatic that you accuse the church people for too.

Most atheist, firstly are standing on a ground of false teaching they were exposed to before rejecting the religion. The limit of their decision is based on what they were exposed to.

From my survey 98% of atheist I have seen, know nothing about the teaching of the scriptures, yet they claim they know it more than those who preaches it.

Even on literal level of the scriptures not even inspiration of the writing, an atheist usually suspend his thinking and objectivity.

You are a product of your past, present influence, hence a man exposed to wrong doctrine cannot determine a true doctrine because he never knew any.

I didn't mention church again, atheist are free thinkers, any atheist that don't know much about a particular religion before making a decision isn't a freethinker, you can be a freethinker without being an atheist.

That's why you'll never see a freethinker commit suicide because they've weighed all possibility, and will refused to be control by their struggle in life instead find strength in it, see life from a different angle, this can only be done by free thinking, not atheism.

hoopernikao:


All you said are still within the limit of choices. And such consequences aren't determined by you. Presumption is not same as realities. You must accept what is true and reconsider your principles.

Are you trying to say their are infinite consequence from a man pulling a trigger to his head.
To the extent you can't determine all possible outcome?

GRIMMJOE:
Are you trying to say their are infinite consequence from a man pulling a trigger to his head.
To the extent you can't determine all possible outcome?

Bro, like I told you. Consequences of human actions aren't placed within their limits. Anyway you want to look at it. This is a reality of life. Man only works with what his mind can comprehend but their are more to life than humans mind can comprehend. That is how man was made.