I've noticed a certain trend ; a lot of self taught developers seem to look down on a cs degree after learning just an aspect of computer science.

For example someone who decides to learn backend web development ( which is a subset of cs)by taking an udemy course thinks he has learnt more than a serious minded cs student . They go about saying stuff like :" I didn't study computer science but I can know more than a cs major" but they seem to forget that computer science goes beyond developing websites. To me it's a waste of time of time studying cs just because you want to be a web developer , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what boot camps are meant for .

But that doesn't change the fact that some CS majors know nothing , I've come across some CS majors that can't code but that doesn't make a cs degree worthless.
But do you think such people are right ?

Coding is just an aspect of CS. A cs graduate is more versatile as it goes beyond coding.

utepu:
Coding is just an aspect of CS. A cs graduate is more versatile as it goes beyond coding.

exactly but people seem to over exaggerate especially self taught developers

You already said it,
CS degree += Programming

I guess the reason might not be far fetched from the fact that you can learn everything you learnt while studying for a CS degree outside a University, it might take more time but you can definitely learn everything outside a university setting.

So you don't necessarily need a CS degree to become a "Software Engineer"

Anonime1105:
You already said it,
CS degree += Programming

I guess the reason might not be far fetched from the fact that you can learn everything you learnt while studying for a CS degree outside a University, it might take more time but you can definitely learn everything outside a university settings.

So you don't necessarily need a CS degree to become a "Software Engineer"

yea but it becomes annoying when someone who attends a 3 months bootcamp thinks they know it all

Don't mind them.

Truth is, it's like that in every discipline.

I didn't study computer science but I know for sure there's more to CSC than writing codes.

Computer science goes more than just coding. What of data structures, algorithms, discrete mathematics, pure mathematics. All which are very important for writing high performing, efficient applications.

CS major is just like Jack of all trades master of none. As a CS grad, I was just reading to pass my exams. Tell me, how do you expect CS major to be expert in Java, c++, pascal, vb, algorithm, python Fortran, cobol, networking etc and still claim to be productive when he/she has not successfully implemented any of these core languages in a production?

After my school, I had to start all over by myself. This time, it was Java and I can tell you that I am very proud of doing so. I learn so much by myself.


So, self taught programmers are goal oriented and not like the school conventional way of programming.

ARCHEMEDESME:
I've noticed a certain trend ; a lot of self taught developers seem to look down on a cs degree after learning just an aspect of computer science.

For example someone who decides to learn backend web development ( which is a subset of cs)by taking an udemy course thinks he has learnt more than a serious minded cs student . They go about saying stuff like :" I didn't study computer science but I can know more than a cs major" but they seem to forget that computer science goes beyond developing websites. To me it's a waste of time of time studying cs just because you want to be a web developer , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what boot camps are meant for .

But that doesn't change the fact that some CS majors know nothing , I've come across some CS majors that can't code but that doesn't make a cs degree worthless.
But do you think such people are right ?

The bold is a disrespect to CSC. web dev backend is a sub-sub-sub-sub of CS.

Who ever looked down on going to school to study CS because he or she has learnt a part of CS is just mistaken. Going to school to study CSC gives one the theoretical background of what CSC is all about. BTW I don’t blame them Computing scientist in Nigeria don’t do any serious computing at all. So we may not know the difference between a CSC graduate and just an ordinary coder. Except in theoretical aspect.

ARCHEMEDESME:
I've noticed a certain trend ; a lot of self taught developers seem to look down on a cs degree after learning just an aspect of computer science.

For example someone who decides to learn backend web development ( which is a subset of cs)by taking an udemy course thinks he has learnt more than a serious minded cs student . They go about saying stuff like :" I didn't study computer science but I can know more than a cs major" but they seem to forget that computer science goes beyond developing websites. To me it's a waste of time of time studying cs just because you want to be a web developer , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what boot camps are meant for .

But that doesn't change the fact that some CS majors know nothing , I've come across some CS majors that can't code but that doesn't make a cs degree worthless.
But do you think such people are right ?

Getting a cs degree for a back end development career might not be an overkill.

Back end development at major companies like FANG requires a solid understanding of Data structures and Algorithm, a good understanding of how the language you are using for the development and the hardware relates, knowing the inner workings of the hardware, and how computers work overall.

For example Google had to create their own programming language because the existing ones had some issues i.e Python is too slow, Java is verbose, C++ compiles like a snail in addition to the fact that you have to do memory management etc.

Imagine one million requests hitting your server at once in need of a database or file write operation? A cs graduate knows about how operating systems works and how to do efficient concurrency and maximizing the usefulness of the hardware, a boot camp graduate might not even be aware of process forking.

Methods like bit shifting to store user permissions are easy hacks for CS graduates while a boot camper might not even be aware of the roles of the binary system in computing.

Finally boasting about knowing more than CS graduates is just a show of ignorance. Yes you can, but my friend before you can reach that stage you would have studied a lot alone, and when you are done you would realize that a CS degree might even be the shortcut.

Coder2Client:
CS major is just like Jack of all trades master of none. As a CS grad, I was just reading to pass my exams. Tell me, how do you expect CS major to be expert in Java, c++, pascal, vb, algorithm, python Fortran, cobol, networking etc and still claim to be productive when he/she has not successfully implemented any of these core languages in a production?

After my school, I had to start all over by myself. This time, it was Java and I can tell you that I am very proud of doing so. I learn so much by myself.


So, self taught programmers are goal oriented and not like the school conventional way of programming.

you are just speaking dust. I bet you didn’t study CSC from the way you speak. And what has CSC got to do with being an expert in a language. Infact most of my Lecturers are not close to how good I was in programming back in school but they were great computing Scientist than I was at then. CSC is beyond coding. CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data. It basically has not much to do with computer it self. Computer is a by-product of CSC and the language of communicating with such machine is also a product of CSC. So programming language is not anything close to CSC.

Shepherdd:


Getting a cs degree for a back end development career might not be an overkill.

Back end development at major companies like FANG requires a solid understanding of Data structures and Algorithm, a good understanding of how the language you are using for the development and the hardware relates, knowing the inner workings of the hardware, and how computers work overall.

For example Google had to create their own programming language because the existing ones had some issues i.e Python is too slow, Java is verbose, C++ compiles like a snail in addition to the fact that you have to do memory management etc.

Imagine one million requests hitting your server at once in need of a database or file write operation? A cs graduate knows about how operating systems works and how to do efficient concurrency and maximizing the usefulness of the hardware, a boot camp graduate might not even be aware of process forking.

Methods like bit shifting to store user permissions are easy hacks for CS graduates while a boot camper might not even be aware of the roles of the binary system in computing.

Finally boasting about knowing more than CS graduates is just a show of ignorance. Yes you can, but my friend before you can reach that stage you would have studied a lot alone, and when you are done you would realize that a CS degree might even be the shortcut.

exactly , but for most average jobs a boot camp grad will work just fine

My Opinion:

I would blame the country's education system.

You can't be a CS grad in Nigeria and know shi*t if you don't drill yourself, when even most of your lecturers have never written a production level software in their life or contributed to any open source project. So tell me, how can the students be inspired? Why you see most CS grad writing bug ridden codes, and giving the "WordPress junkies" and their likes the impression that a CS degree is useless.

I am not a CS grad myself, I self learn. So, my conclusion is when you see anybody claiming a CS degree is useless just know they don't know jack shi*t. They've never even scratched the surface.

stanliwise:
you are just speaking dust. I bet you didn’t study CSC from the way you speak. And what has CSC got to do with being an expert in a language. Infact most of my Lecturers are not close to how good I was in programming back in school but they were great computing Scientist than I was at then. CSC is beyond coding. CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data. It basically has not much to do with computer it self. Computer is a by-product of CSC and the language of communicating with such machine is also a product of CSC. So programming language is not anything close to CSC.

If CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data then self taught programmers can do a lot better in that area just like gates and mark did. Csc is just the foundation, the system won't teach you to be good at it.

Coder2Client:




If CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data then self taught programmers can do a lot better in that area just like gates and mark did. Csc is just the foundation, the system won't teach you to be good at it.

Gates and mark are not qualified to be called a computer scientist. If you speak of Alan Turing, Tim Berners-Lee, E. Djikstra, James Gosling, then you are talking, you basically lack the knowledge of who computer scientist are. You just mentioned mark and Gate who are great and notable computer programmers but you didn’t understand that they been a programmer is not anything close to CSC. The people I mentioned above developed some of the in-depth knowledge of how your present computer thinks. And the oga of computing science Alan Turing is the father of computing scientist and am sure I can code more than him and he can’t stand mark nor gate when it comes to coding but they are nothing close to him in computing science.

All I am doing is to twist your brain that programming is just a small part of computing science.

stanliwise:
Gates and mark are not qualified to be called a computer scientist. If you speak of Alan Turing, Tim Berners-Lee, E. Djikstra, James Gosling, then you are talking, you basically lack the knowledge of who computer scientist are. You just mentioned mark and Gate who are great and notable computer programmers but you didn’t understand that they been a programmer is not anything close to CSC. The people I mentioned above developed some of the in-depth knowledge of how your present computer thinks. And the god of computing science Alan Turing is the father of computing scientist and am sure I can code more than him and he can’t stand mark nor gate when it comes to coding but they are nothing close to him in computing science.

All I am doing is to twist your brain that programming is just a small part of computing science.

All those who you have mentioned are computer scientists, I'm aware of that. Programming is a fractional part of computer science, yes, I'm pretty sure of that. But if I ask you to answer my question, would you be truthful to yourself by saying nothing but the absolute truth? Why did you study CSC? To become a good programmer or a computer scientist?
Remember, you cannot be a good programmer without the knowledge algorithm. And to become a good computer scientist you have to dedicate your life in the field just like those you've mentioned.

The professors are teaching students to be industry ready, which although you have your own part to play. And to be industry ready is considered being a good software engineer /developer which is considered to be the face of computer science. Even, most industries are not too much into CSC degree which yourself is aware of rather your problem solving skills which is embedded in DSA.

ARCHEMEDESME:
I've noticed a certain trend ; a lot of self taught developers seem to look down on a cs degree after learning just an aspect of computer science.

For example someone who decides to learn backend web development ( which is a subset of cs)by taking an udemy course thinks he has learnt more than a serious minded cs student . They go about saying stuff like :" I didn't study computer science but I can know more than a cs major" but they seem to forget that computer science goes beyond developing websites. To me it's a waste of time of time studying cs just because you want to be a web developer , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what boot camps are meant for .

But that doesn't change the fact that some CS majors know nothing , I've come across some CS majors that can't code but that doesn't make a cs degree worthless.
But do you think such people are right ?

Next time ask them to tell you how the internet works. Or just start talking about System Architecture.

Coder2Client:


All those who you have mentioned are computer scientists, I'm aware of that. Programming is a fractional part of computer science, yes, I'm pretty sure of that. But if I ask you to answer my question, would you be truthful to yourself by saying nothing but the absolute truth? Why did you study CSC? To become a good programmer or a computer scientist?
Remember, you cannot be a good programmer without the knowledge algorithm. And to become a good computer scientist you have to dedicate your life in the field just like those you've mentioned.

The professors are teaching students to be industry ready, which although you have your own part to play. And to be industry ready is considered being a good software engineer /developer which is considered to be the face of computer science. Even, most industries are not too much into CSC degree which yourself is aware of rather your problem solving skills which is embedded in DSA.

This is ridiculously untrue. CS goes miles beyond computer development, if a new OS is about to be made who do you think they will call? If a new processor is about to be made and the designers need people to design the ISA who do you think they will call? If a new network transfer protocol like TCP or UDP is about to be made who do you think will be called? What about Virtual Machines, Machine learning algorithms, Programming languages etc. Computer science is more than Software engineering though it does concern coding but it is also has a lot to do with Mathematics.

Coder2Client:
CS major is just like Jack of all trades master of none. As a CS grad, I was just reading to pass my exams. Tell me, how do you expect CS major to be expert in Java, c++, pascal, vb, algorithm, python Fortran, cobol, networking etc and still claim to be productive when he/she has not successfully implemented any of these core languages in a production?

After my school, I had to start all over by myself. This time, it was Java and I can tell you that I am very proud of doing so. I learn so much by myself.


So, self taught programmers are goal oriented and not like the school conventional way of programming.

I don't blame people for saying this I blame Nigeria.

Ausrichie:

This is ridiculously untrue. CS goes miles beyond computer development, if a new OS is about to be made who do you think they will call? If a new processor is about to be made and the designers need people to design the ISA who do you think they will call? If a new network transfer protocol like TCP or UDP is about to be made who do you think will be called? What about Virtual Machines, Machine learning algorithms, Programming languages etc. Computer science is more than Software engineering though it does concern coding but it is also has a lot to do with Mathematics.

If you read me well, I didn't dispute that. In the context of industry, software engineering is the face of computer science. You will realize that most of the technologies you listed above are made for software engineering purposes, which industries use for their end product that users see.

Coder2Client:


If you read me well, I didn't dispute that. In the context of industry, software engineering is the face of computer science. You will realize that most of the technologies you listed above are made for software engineering purposes, which industries use for their end product that users see.

Okay oh.

tensazangetsu20:
Computer science goes more than just coding. What of data structures, algorithms, discrete mathematics, pure mathematics. All which are very important for writing high performing, efficient applications.

Common programmers learn data structures and algorithms too oh. Even complexity of algorithms, but what annoys me about these "developers" is their extreme dependence on other people's libraries, if it has a bug how the hell are you going to fix it. By the way do you watch Bleach.

My advice is that a serious company should employ a CS grad and allow them to learn on the job or train them if they do not have enough experience. Most self taught are just noise makers as getteing a programming job is through connection rather than what you know.

Saying a CS grad cannot code is because self taught are not professionals so they don't understand that a professional can look up reference materials as their knowlegde is very wide unlike a self taught that only know the little bit of programming they do all the time.

You will hear self-taught saying a language is out dated when a new language or tool is out, not knowing that every language and tool has what they are best for and that the major existing languages and tools are kept up to date and can even perform better then the new ones.

Many complex projects are being scrapped because self taught do not have the knowledge to implement them and they will not give a CS grad the oppotunity to come in and implement those projects.

Ausrichie:

Common programmers learn data structures and algorithms too oh. Even complexity of algorithms, but what annoys me about these "developers" is their extreme dependence on other people's libraries, if it has a bug how the hell are you going to fix it. By the way do you watch Bleach.

Bleach was one of my favourite animes in high school before it stopped airing.

Everything can be learnt if one is serious in learning them.

Coder2Client:


All those who you have mentioned are computer scientists, I'm aware of that. Programming is a fractional part of computer science, yes, I'm pretty sure of that. But if I ask you to answer my question, would you be truthful to yourself by saying nothing but the absolute truth? Why did you study CSC? To become a good programmer or a computer scientist?
Remember, you cannot be a good programmer without the knowledge algorithm. And to become a good computer scientist you have to dedicate your life in the field just like those you've mentioned.

The professors are teaching students to be industry ready, which although you have your own part to play. And to be industry ready is considered being a good software engineer /developer which is considered to be the face of computer science. Even, most industries are not too much into CSC degree which yourself is aware of rather your problem solving skills which is embedded in DSA.

Nigeria is a joke when it comes to computing. We currently have liquidated most of the job of a typical computing scientist to just coding and building softwares.

The job of a computing science in an industry is basically related to data manipulation. Be it web related, analysis, analytic, transfer, security etc. so many time you don’t necessarily have to be a solid programmer, many times it a team work and good coder should be in your team. You bring the ideas and the coder put it into a computer. Advance cyber techniques and data analytics is basically more of an idea and implementation.
Every CSC student Should understand programming language to a considerable extent but being a bad ass programmer is no where close to being useful when data manipulation comes into play like Big(O) notation and advance data manipulation techniques. It is more of the thinking strategy. I hope you understand this.

stanliwise:
Nigeria is a joke when it comes to computing. We currently have liquidated most of the job of a typical computing scientist to just coding and building softwares.

The job of a computing science in an industry is basically related to data manipulation. Be it web related, analysis, analytic, transfer, security etc. so many time you don’t necessarily have to be a solid programmer, many times it a team work and good coder should be in your team. You bring the ideas and the coder put it into a computer. Advance cyber techniques and data analytics is basically more of an idea and implementation.
Every CSC student Should understand programming language to a considerable extent but being a bad ass programmer is no where close to being useful when data manipulation comes into play like Big(O) notation and advance data manipulation techniques. It is more of the thinking strategy. I hope you understand this.

Greetings Sir !

Please recommend a user-friendly online platform where I can learn Python for free.

I used codecademy but the free version is limited to only the intro and basics.

PS: I am presently doing my NYSC and eagerly want to learn programming.

Regards.

wwwtortoise:


Greetings Sir !

Please recommend a user-friendly online platform where I can learn Python for free.

I used codecademy but the free version is limited to only the intro and basics.

PS: I am presently doing my NYSC and eagerly want to learn programming.

Regards.

There are many good python pdf littered online and all you have to do is study them. A simple google search would do.

Nigerians generally love to associate themselves with that self made story line. Even home videos sell us that picture more often than not.

You will see a self taught guy either mechanic, electrician, computer person or even modelling wanting to brag as if they achieved what a PHD holder should be proud of, but when examinee closely, what they have is quackery.

Shepherdd:


Getting a cs degree for a back end development career might not be an overkill.

Back end development at major companies like FANG requires a solid understanding of Data structures and Algorithm, a good understanding of how the language you are using for the development and the hardware relates, knowing the inner workings of the hardware, and how computers work overall.

For example Google had to create their own programming language because the existing ones had some issues i.e Python is too slow, Java is verbose, C++ compiles like a snail in addition to the fact that you have to do memory management etc.

Imagine one million requests hitting your server at once in need of a database or file write operation? A cs graduate knows about how operating systems works and how to do efficient concurrency and maximizing the usefulness of the hardware, a boot camp graduate might not even be aware of process forking.

Methods like bit shifting to store user permissions are easy hacks for CS graduates while a boot camper might not even be aware of the roles of the binary system in computing.

Finally boasting about knowing more than CS graduates is just a show of ignorance. Yes you can, but my friend before you can reach that stage you would have studied a lot alone, and when you are done you would realize that a CS degree might even be the shortcut.

Oga, backend of enterprise resource apps or MIS apps is like 1% of CS. In industrial settings of serious nations their mechatronics set up feature even CS. It is funny how people forget System engr, Software Engineering, MIS, and other software related programs to focus their energy on CS and think the ability to conjure apps makes them some kind of guru.

CodeTemplar:
Oga, backend of enterprise resource apps or MIS apps is like 1% of CS. In industrial settings of serious nations their mechatronics set up feature even CS. It is funny how people forget System engr, Software Engineering, MIS, and other software related programs to focus their energy on CS and think the ability to conjure apps makes them some kind of guru.

Right. I was just stating to the guy that a CS degree at a huge company for a back end job is not an overkill. A CS graduate will better appreciate and efficiently use the system at hand and am not talking about back end jobs like news website or forums and cohorts. Back end systems like Netflix, Google Compute Engine, Facebook core, Spacex Dragon Simulation are all good examples of Applications where a CS graduate will shine and a Normal boot camp graduate will struggle. And yes these apps are built with various branches of CS like sys engineering, cns, micro architecture e.t.c

wwwtortoise:


Greetings Sir !

Please recommend a user-friendly online platform where I can learn Python for free.

I used codecademy but the free version is limited to only the intro and basics.

PS: I am presently doing my NYSC and eagerly want to learn programming.

Regards.

Hello, go check out JetBrains Learning at jetbrains.com. They are giving learners free access to their courses until January, 2021.

MrBible:
My advice is that a serious company should employ a CS grad and allow them to learn on the job or train them if they do not have enough experience. Most self taught are just noise makers as getteing a programming job is through connection rather than what you know.

Saying a CS grad cannot code is because self taught are not professionals so they don't understand that a professional can look up reference materials as their knowlegde is very wide unlike a self taught that only know the little bit of programming they do all the time.

You will hear self-taught saying a language is out dated when a new language or tool is out, not knowing that every languague and tool has what they are best for and that the major existing languages and tools are kept up to date and can even perform better then the new ones.

Many complex projects are being scrapped because self taught do not have the knowledge to implement them and they will not give a CS grad the oppotunity to come in and implement those projects.

There is nothing wrong in being self taught, I am tutoring myself in multiple cs courses like OS development, Internet architecture, linear algebra, physics (for the sake of gameplay programming) and System Architecture (this is very good for programmers and CS students in order to spit out code that makes optimising compilers look like dumbos). I want to also continue on Calculus (edx tutors make this stuff seem like cake, shame on Nigerian lecturers and teachers) and some others. It just depends on how you see yourself, some see it as some stupid achievement that makes them smart like Tesla while I see it as a necessity. Even college students should do it.