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Nairaland Forum / Science/Technology / Programming / Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate (26382 Views)
Self-taught Programmers / How Did You Land You First Job As A Self-taught Developer? / Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 9:52am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Crvrider:some people study CS because it's amazing nature . I agree that most people studying CS do it to become software engineers. But some people do it for the theoretical part. I once came across a PhD computer scientist who said that a lot of theoretical computer scientists don't code much , they come up with theories and those under them implement it in a programming language 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 9:55am On Jun 28, 2020 |
GoodBoi1:I absolutely agree |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 9:58am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Felicity0001:I absolutely agree that some topics are irrelevant with regards to becoming a software engineer , but I think a cs degree prepares you for a bit of every area |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Grandlord: 9:58am On Jun 28, 2020 |
crownedrookie:Follow the CS50 course from Harvard, taught by Prof. David Malan. Has everything from data structures to algorithms. Available on YouTube, edx and havarddotedu. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 10:01am On Jun 28, 2020 |
donproject:I'm not saying that some CS majors can't be incompetent , the fact that they're incompetent doesn't make a cs degree incompetent |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by iswallker(m): 10:05am On Jun 28, 2020 |
What's "over exaggerate" Over state a fact s exaggerate - which one is over exaggerate again. ![]() |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by OYENIYIJK: 10:09am On Jun 28, 2020 |
This is why I love Nairaland, if you say you know anything, you will still meet your master ![]() ![]() abeg, keep the thing going. We novice dey enjoy am 7 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Grandlord: 10:10am On Jun 28, 2020 |
There's room for everyone. The CS graduate specialising in software engineering, is responsible for the high level thinking process required for software design, algorithms, architecture and planning. They then hand down this design and plan to the programmers who do the coding with the programming language of their choice or of the company's choice. Everyone knows their place. Think of it like an architect and a builder. The architect doesn't really need to know how to build but he's the brain behind the structural design. But why choose when you can be all of it? ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by tollyboy5(m): 10:14am On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise:Don't overhype csc and downplay programmers. My csc friend use to boast that they know most math we physicist study , but the truth is if csc student do alot of calculus and engineers and physicist go into programming you can't just downplay them. CSC is good as hype my first programming language was c++ as a physicist we also did embedded programming which is writing code to the hardware that made me understand the way bios system work and how you could duplicate your own embedded computer. You don't expect we as physicist writing code to and hardware from scratch not to know how to write simple front end code. If you talk about algorithm and data I'll still give that to the statisticians and mathematicians not even the csc. Now tell me what are the special skill of a computer scientist that engineers and other scientist can study and be good at. Leave algorithm out of this many data scientist without csc are good with algorithm |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by SmartyPants(m): 10:14am On Jun 28, 2020 |
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Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 10:16am On Jun 28, 2020 |
SmartyPants:I'm not denying that |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Shepherdd(m): 10:19am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Grandlord: That's the thing. Everybody has a place and everyone is equally important. Bill Gates is a great computer scientist but he managed to fu*ck windows GUI. Imagine he had a great UI/UX designer with him. Steve jobs was a badass GUI guy but Bill Gates with his coding skills was pivotal in the success of the Macintosh 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 10:21am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME:cs as presently taught in most Nigerian public universities is garbage, it only give the graduates theoretical knowledge of the field, hence most self taught programmers who have hands on programming experience think less of them. secondly, just like C's graduates self taught programmers are also not restricted to web development, many self taught programmers have become very proficient in programming languages like c, c plus plus, Java etc and can actually match any cs graduate skill for skill |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Crvrider: 10:24am On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise: No one is refuting the fact that these guys you've mentioned didn't do remarkably well in their time but in today's computing world software engineers have really taken things to a whole different level. Is there anything you do today that you do not need a software of some sort to first simulate the process to be taken? Rewind the hand of time back to when Turing designed the Enigma machine and hand him a piece a software that simulates the whole process, trust me you would have made his job 1000times easier and faster. However, the reason why we argue is what I do not understand. If for anything else we both agree that cs is quite broad and regardless of what you specialize in: Applied Mathematics Digital Image/ Sound Artificial Intelligence Microprogramming Bioinformatics Networks And Administration Computer Architecture Networks Cryptography Computer Engineering Operating Systems Computer Game Development Robotics Computer Graphics Simulation And Modeling Computer Programming Software Development Software Systems Data Management Web Development Design Databases Parallel Programming iOS Development Mobile Development Memory Systems Computational Physics we all need each other. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by tollyboy5(m): 10:25am On Jun 28, 2020 |
wwwtortoise:Download sololearn and thank me later when you've become pro in Python |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 10:27am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Karleb:the other aspect of C's besides coding is design of computer hardware, how many Nigerian cs graduates can do that? |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by hush15: 10:28am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME: Viewing it from your angle, CS as a course is suppose to give you the framework and guide into that aspect of IT. Its suppose to make you grounded in the rudimentary knowledge of CS cos its a very broad course. From Softwares development to infrastructure architecture or even enterprise management and it still doesn't stop there. During the course, you only get to touch programs that allows machines to communicate in its basic more and the principle of such program for instance, you don't study java, python, c or c+ or c++ as a course but instead, you study linear programming, oop, or automata languages which are not programs but concepts of programming for those that want to pursue programming as a career. In CS also, there is the aspect of software development which deals with software designing, building, integrating and debugging too which is very extensive and a career on its own. Now this is not programming and its a full time job on its own. Under CS also, we have computer architecture and development. This one you also get to learn how to design systems and develop it to suit business needs and its a basic knowledge for those who want to pursue a career in Business Systems, infrastructure management, support systems and the list is endless. Its also precursor to Operating Systems which is another broad topic and a career on its own as there are several types of OS that requires their own knowledge and skills. Basically, my point is when you study CS as a course, you are given all round knowledge from programming to architecture and development be anything you choose to be but when you study programming for programming, that's all that you are, a programmer and even more specifically, a type of programmer cos you can't know all the languages. The life of a programmer is not usually an interesting one cos it require solitude, your intuition and reasoning must be impeccable, you logic must be impeccable. Not those who copy and paste, then edit. That you sabi small Dreamweaver or fit run JavaScript doesn't make you a programmer and still party, the real programmers are always behind the scene, always thinking and hardly engage is social life. They create the framework programs that we know as source code that everybody latches to at their front end. They are those that program backbones for bank infrastructure, NASA systems, military systems, meteorological systems, hackers, geographical data systems or any major systems. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by stanliwise(m): 10:29am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Crvrider:Coding is a fundamental to all scientist and not just for computing scientist. You are changing the argument now. No one and not me is saying coding isn’t needed by a computing scientist. What I am basically saying is that being a programmer will not make you a computing scientist and no matter how good you code you will never be a computing scientist. To be a computing scientist you need the mathematical and theoretical knowledge of computation whether outside or within a school. What you mentioned especially the software part are branches of computing science and not necessarily the core. Anyone could learn the branch to some pragmatic level but to go beyond you need a core knowledge of computation. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 10:29am On Jun 28, 2020 |
tensazangetsu20:all those aspects u just mentioned are actually related to coding( algorithms, data structures etc, help u to design better code) so C's is basically about coding |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Crvrider: 10:29am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME: That is why I have reverted and said there really is no need for this argument. In one way or another all these specialization under the cs spectrum will come together to make the final product. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Grandlord: 10:31am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Microwhy:You're right. When it comes to software, all the information, resources and tools are out there. All you need is a computer and an internet connection, and you're good to go. So anyone can learn anything if they are passionate about it. This is unlike hardware or some other field that might require physical presence and hands-on experience. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 10:32am On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise:I think u are confusing a web development with coding, while a web developer is also a coder coding goes beyond web dev, there is embedded coding, desktop coding, etc 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by tollyboy5(m): 10:34am On Jun 28, 2020 |
CodeTemplar:Let speak the truth to ourselves a Nigeria CSC don't really know other part of the course that's why programmers who are goal oriented seems to go father than normal csc person. I'm a physicist you should know I have good knowledge of electronics, I started programming with a book called software engineering with c++. Now c++ is used in embedded system, so tell me how many Nigeria CSC graduate would write an OS for a small robotic system or even do some other stuff? As far as Nigeria is concerned CSC is over hyoed |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by tollyboy5(m): 10:38am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ernieboy:That's what I'm trying to tell them o! I've been working on generating pure sine wave from a PIC micro controller and I want to integrate the system with esp so that I can control it from all over the world so I have to write server side code. So should I call my self an embedded programmer or a web developer? When im studying physics |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by stanliwise(m): 10:38am On Jun 28, 2020 |
tollyboy5:You just said the worst thing ever I just heard. You lack the fundamental knowledge of who a computing scientist is. How can you give data algorithms to statisticians ![]() Statistician use mainly algorithms that deals with statistics. Infact I don’t even want to waste my time. So the algorithms google uses for real time search was invented by who? Who invented sorting algorithms. Who invented algorithms for picture generation For string digestion and language rule digestion. Who bring algorithms for data storage. My friend please get informed jare 3 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Felicity0001: 10:40am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME:The problennis nor only synonymous with CS but with almost every degree in Nigeria tertiary institutions. Our institutions have never had a good curriculum background for both skills, theoretical and intellectual learning rather we copied the western education wrongly instead of improving on it making a better version. Every degree in our educational system still require an external or professional learning before a student/graduate can become a master. This is why most CEOs keep saying Nigeria graduates are unemployable. Bottom line: I'd rather acquire a skill than spending 4,-7yrs in University. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 10:41am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME:that I s if u study can in a reputable University, not a Nigerian public University |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Corporate2020: 10:42am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Very interesting topic. I have a Masters degree in Computer Science. I also have Oracle and Microsoft DB Certifications. I was working in one particular bank like that. I was in Database department. I had a senior in DB dept. then. He studied Mechanical Engr. but became a Database Admin. On one occasion when the system was very slow, the Database response was sluggish. Users across our about 500 branches were complaining bitterly. Then, I told my Senior DB Officer to let us increase the Memory of our IBM Server which housed the Database as a temporary measure while we investigate further. Funnily, he did not know what that will do. He did not know what increasing the Memory of the IBM Server will do to the problem at hand. This is because he does not have knowledge of basic computer architecture. He did not know that Memory capacity, Processor speed and some other factors determine the performance of the Server and the softwares running on the Server. On some occasions when our Oracle Databse behaves crazily, then our Head of IT comes screaming, I just tell him the problem is from the hardware which is the IBM Server, that it is the Server that is behaving crazy. The Head of IT will run to Server dept and harras the guys there. The guys in our Server dept all studied Elect/Elect Engr. So, they too do not have a proper understanding of computer architecture. You cannot say that they are not qualified because banks employ the very best hands into specialized departments. So, when I send the Head of IT on an errand to Server dept, I and my Senior DB Officer will have time to investigate the problem at hand and solve it. It got to a time, the Head of IT merged Database dept and Server dept because I was always pushing crazy problems to Server dept which the Servers guys will not understand. So, it became Databse and Server dept. So, we were brought to the same room, five of us then. So, any problem, we solve it together, no pushing of problems to other depts. I started learning about Server Administration while the Server guys too started learning Database so that we could stand in for each other. Programmers in Software dept too who were formerly pushing their problems to Server Dept whenever their Software was running slowly could not do that again because I would sit down with them, analyse the problem and tell them why it is their Software that is sluggish and needs to be optimised and not the Server. I have some other funny and crazy experiences in other bank and a telecoms company, but they are very specific and the people involve may be reading this, so I will just continue remembering them and laughing at professional gate crashers who jump into professions and start boasting. In summary, the self-taught programmers that think they know all about computing and that studying Computer Science is waste of time, they are still working on small projects, when they handle big projects, then they will know that Alli Baba is not at the same level with Funny Bone. 6 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by stanliwise(m): 10:43am On Jun 28, 2020 |
ernieboy:web dev are people which are in the business of creating new technologies for web. End coder are frontend are backend. Contributors are language designers, library’s designers. Idea developer are people who contribute new web techniques to web word e.g Gang of Four Should I go on? Yet web dev is a sub sub of CSC. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by GoodBoi1(m): 10:50am On Jun 28, 2020 |
Corporate2020:That's cool but still you don't need a CS degree to know/do all that, anyone can learn this online, with certifications or experience. When you work on big projects, you are more likely to specialize cos big projects require working in teams. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Crvrider: 10:53am On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise: Is it not possible then for a self taught who is well grounded in programming not to be knowledgeable in computational skills? Look there are certain careers in life where you can do quite well without being admitted to study in the university and programming is one of them. Even your computational analysis is also another. On the other hand maybe I misunderstand you. Please kindly explain what you mean by computational and why you think it is a skill for the high and mighty. PS: have you seen a programmer who built an operating system/programming language from scratch, and I am not here talking about an android or iOS app? It takes a lot of cerebral concentration! |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Corporate2020: 10:53am On Jun 28, 2020 |
GoodBoi1: My brother, local Nurses in Ajegunle, Ajangbadi, Ijora-Badia, Okokomaiko, Bariga, e.t.c. also do surgical operations. Same thing professors of Medicine do, but when yawa gas, na then you go know say khaki no be leather. 1 Like |
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