MuttleyLaff:
"¹⁶There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
¹⁷Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
¹⁸A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
¹⁹A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers."
- Proverbs 6:16-19

Can you please, for once, already quit proof-texting scripture. Can you once, try to begin reading and understanding scripture contextually. Can you, at all, for once stop reading bible verses in isolation, hmm?

Fyi, God hates and rejects idolatry, infidelity, playing around, whether in whatever relationship including other sins like telling lies, as well.

Now, that Proverbs 6:16-19 above up there, is a list of what God hates. It is a list of what God finds detestable and it is also a list of what are abominations to God.

Interestingly, Proverbs 6:18a, is where from, the favourite Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 misguided and misinterpreted verses fits but you need to ask yourself, what specifically in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is abomination to God

Fyi, Malachi 2:16, where God says, He hates divorce, also slots perfectly well in to Proverbs 6:18a
Another fyi is, Amos 5:21, where God says: "I hate your religious festivals, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies" is another verse, again, that slots perfectly well in to Proverbs 6:18a

Now I put it to you, stating clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, what correctly, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the committed abomination that was being done before God, hmm? (i.e. what correctly and pato, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the thing that was done, that God hates and/or detests?)

Before you attempt to answer the above question, please meditate and mull over Deuteronomy 23:17-18 first.

proverb did not also include idol worship as one of the seven abomination but yet idol worship is an abomination.
Homosexuality is condemned in the bible.

Sex was designed for married couples (man and his wife.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Do you know what an effeminate is?
In homosexual relationship a male takes on the role of a female.

Anyone who engages in homosexuality can not see the kingdom of God.

solite3:
proverb did not also include idol worship as one of the seven abomination but yet idol worship is an abomination.

"A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil"
- Proverbs 6:18

What do you think idol worship is? Is it devising straight plans. Is it feet that run rapidly to good. What is good in idolatry and/or idol worship, hmm?

solite3:
Homosexuality is condemned in the bible.

The word "homosexuality" never got into the original text, whether Aramaic or Greek. The word was invented in the 18 century by a German. Fyi, it is promiscuity of any shape, form and/or guise, that the scripture frowns on.

solite3:
Sex was designed for married couples (man and his wife.

Sex is created for procreation and pleasure

solite3:
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Do you know what an effeminate is?

Do you know the context surrounding how and what 1 Corinthians 6:9 was written and why?

You asked what an effeminate is. If you must know, yes I do, I knew of at least two in boarding school when growing up. They had feminine high pitch voices, feminine mannerisms, feminine style of walking (i.e. bombom shaking, side to side when walking) but guess for free. They were as straight as they come. Even one of them, I know is happily married

If you had meditated and mulled over Deuteronomy 23:17-18 first, just as I advised you to reflect on, you wouldn't be thinking you have a valid point trying to use effeminate, as a weapon to wield.

solite3:
In homosexual relationship a male takes on the role of a female.

In my heterosexual relationship, sometimes my missus takes on the role of male and vice versa. We just complement each other.

solite3:
Anyone who engages in homosexuality can not see the kingdom of God.

You think you are God. We thank God, it's not you, who has the last say who or not sees and enters the kingdom of Heaven

Solite3, what's your understanding of the purpose and intent of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? You can throw in the "why"

MuttleyLaff:
"A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil"
- Proverbs 6:18

What do you think idol worship is? Is it devising straight plans. Is it feet that run rapidly to good. What is good in idolatry and/or idol worship, hmm?

are you asking me? What is good in homosexuality?

The word "homosexuality" never got into the original text, whether Aramaic or Greek. The word was invented in the 18 century by a German. Fyi, it is promiscuity of any shape, form and/or guise, that the scripture frowns on.

Sex is created for procreation and pleasure

muttleylaff stop trying to bend a clear truth.
Homosexuality was clearly defined in the bible as a man lieing with a man. Original or modern interpretation has nothing to do with it.

Do you know the context surrounding how and what 1 Corinthians 6:9 was written and why?

You asked what an effeminate is. If you must know, yes I do, I knew of at least two in boarding school when growing up. They had feminine high pitch voices, feminine mannerisms, feminine style of walking (i.e. bombom shaking, side to side when walking) but guess for free. They were as straight as they come. Even one of them, I know is happily married

If you had meditated and mulled over Deuteronomy 23:17-18 first, just as I advised you to reflect on, you wouldn't be thinking you have a valid point trying to use effeminate, as a weapon to wield.

The context is clear those who practice these sinful lifestyle cannot enter the knigdom.

In my heterosexual relationship, sometimes my missus takes on the role of male and vice versa. We just complement each other.

You think you are God. We thank God, it's not you, who has the last say who or not sees and enters the kingdom of Heaven

I didnt say I am God but I am a servant of God, yes I must tell you the truth because your eternity depends on it.
Paul was not God yet he penned it down.

Solire3, what's your understanding of the purpose and intent of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? You can throw in the "why"

Those who engages in homosexuality perverse God's original plan.
God created Adam and eve not Adam and steve.
Just like, polygamy, Homosexuality came as a result of sin entering into the world, the law exposes sin for what it is, so that the sinner can see how much he has fallen but when people like you defend and give excuses for sin, you cannot truly come to faith in Christ.


1 John 1:5-10 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Stop defending sin but instead come to Jesus and be saved from it.

Dtruthspeaker:
I think Solite3 would say that this thread is about General and Specific Obedience to the Laws Issued by God which is what I think it is.

I think Solite3 is quite able to answer for himself, so please let him

Kobojunkie:
I think Solite3 is quite able to answer for himself, so please let him

you should reread op's opening post

solite3:
you should reread op's opening post

my guess is you refer to this here....

solite3:
Answer: The Bible has much to say about obedience. In fact, obedience is an essential part of the Christian faith. Jesus Himself was “obedient unto death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:8 ). For Christians, the act of taking up our cross and following Christ (Matthew 16:24) means obedience. The Bible says that we show our love for Jesus by obeying Him in all things: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). A Christian who is not obeying Christ’s commands can rightly be asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46).

Kobojunkie:
my guess is you refer to this here....

yes. Jesus loves you.

solite3:
yes. Jesus loves you.

Then

Kobojunkie:

As God commanded that you not add or remove from His commandments in the Old Covenant, the same applies to the New Covenant. Do not add or remove from it as it is given to you

delkuf:
One of the prayer we Christian all over ought to pray is that God should Baptist us with the Spirit of obedience. And we should be quick to obey

Kobojunkie:
Since obedience was encoded into man even before the fall of man, I doubt there is such a thing as a spirit of obedience, and I certainly doubt a separate baptism will be given by such a spirit.

"In which you formerly walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience"
- Ephesians 2:2

Disobedience takes and/or causes people to be backward while obedience to every spoken word of Jesus, takes people forward.

solite3:
are you asking me? What is good in homosexuality?

Are you asking me? Are you asking me what is good in homosexuality?. It is not good for me, I am certain it isn't good for you either, but for some same sex attraction is good for them

solite3:
muttleylaff stop trying to bend a clear truth.

You dont know the truth and you even sef, cant handle the truth

solite3:
Homosexuality was clearly defined in the bible as a man lieing with a man. Original or modern interpretation has nothing to do with it.

Why are you, openly and without guilt or embarrassment, doing a Pinocchio here nah solite3, hmm?. What was the sort of "homosexuality" that was clearly defined in the bible as a man lying with a man

solite3:
The context is clear those who practice these sinful lifestyle cannot enter the knigdom

At this rate that you at, you are just going to dig yourself in to a hole, you'll won't be able to climb out from. OK, let's give you the benefit of doubt, that you know your onions regarding the context of the sinful lifestyle practised by the patrons, partakers and/or beneficiaries. Why not provide the bible verses you hinge your understanding on and give an exegesis on it. I cant give you a better chance to shine and be more fairer than this with you

solite3:
I didnt say I am God ...

I never said you were God, I said we thank God that its not you who determines who enters in or doesnt enter in to the kingdom of Heaven

solite3:
... but I am a servant of God,

I have one over you. I am not just ordinarily a son of God, but I am man of God (i.e. moG), I am a priest and royalty.

solite3:
yes I must tell you the truth because your eternity depends on it.

No, you must not tell your version of truth because it is not worth the paper its written on. You need to look inwards first, sort out first your shallow theology before thinking of others or their eternity

solite3:
Paul was not God yet he penned it down.

Please why dont you paste here what exactly it is Apostle Paul penned down, so we both together have a look and do a Berean study

solite3:
Those who engages in homosexuality perverse God's original plan.
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Just like, polygamy, Homosexuality came as a result of sin entering into the world, the law exposes sin for what it is, so that the sinner can see how much he has fallen but when people like you defend and give excuses for sin, you cannot truly come to faith in Christ.

What is the sin in two adult people coming together to form a relationship that is a lifetime of until death do part, based on mutual love, mutual truth, mutual faithfulness, mutual kindness, mutual warmth, companionship et cetera?

I am sure there exists households, of whom, formerly when of the Islam faith, took advantage to have four wives, but now, by the grace of God, are now believers, and so, of course, are still married with them four wives.

It is obvious, you havent understood what the TKGE symbolised, what it represented, what it stood for and that one of the outcome from eating its fruit, will be things like these that goes against the grain

solite3:
1 John 1:5-10 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It's no use proof-texting with 1 John 1:5-10

When was the last time you lied (e.g. white lie, said with a kind purpose and outright lies, said for personal gain or to avoid something unpleasant)

solite3:
Stop defending sin

It is not sin, speaking up for the truth. It is not sinful defending the marginalised, it isn't sin, defending the discriminated, it isn't sin defending the voiceless with giving them a voice.It isn't sin defending a fellow human being from fright of their lives being taken before their time. It is sin defending fellow human being professing lifetime love and commitment to each other. It is not sin, for who were born that way from their mother's womb

I wasn't born that way from my mother's womb. You weren't born that way from your mother's womb. Now because neither, you nor I, were born that way from our mother's womb, it will be a sin, for you or I, to indulge in that sort relationship or sexual set up because we aren't wired up that way and so isn't natural to us

solite3:
but instead come to Jesus and be saved from it.

You need to pray for the manifestation of the spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit, because, it is obvious from your exhibited bad guesswork here, there is a dearth of it in you or about you.

MuttleyLaff:


Exactly my POV too, so Dtruthspeaker whats your understanding of the purpose and intent of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? You can throw in the "why"

Respectfully, Looking Closely at the activities covered in Leviticus 18, one comes to the conclusion that it is the Law Prohibiting the various kinds of sexual activities implemented or capable of being implemented by the Male Man and Verse 22 is the Law Prohibiting Sex between 2 males.

Leviticus 20 is a continuation of the Prohibition of further Sexual activities including the Prohibition of sex between man and man whether he be a sojourning stranger or an Isrealite.

Dtruthspeaker:
Respectfully, Looking Closely at the activities covered in Leviticus 18, one comes to the conclusion that it is the Law Prohibiting the various kinds of sexual activities implemented or capable of being implemented by the Male Man and Verse 22 is the Law Prohibiting Sex between 2 males.

Leviticus 20 is a continuation of the Prohibition of further Sexual activities including the Prohibition of sex between man and man whether he be a sojourning stranger or an Isrealite.

Respect begets respect. Dtruthspeaker respectfully, thoughtfully and closely looking at Leviticus 18 and this including Leviticus 18:22, God gives reasons for each of those various kinds of sexual liaisons, whether done openly or secretively, like, Judah and Tamar, king David and Bathsheba et cetera, why He doesnt endorse them. Now it will interest you to know, from reading Leviticus 18:22, that God, actually gave a specific reason why He was against the particular type of same sex liaison. Is that not so, Dtruthspeaker, hmm, that God gave the reason for objecting to it? I am sure you would have noticed for a very good reason, why Leviticus 18:22 was specific of the gender here (i.e. it didnt talk of a female version practised)

MuttleyLaff:
Respect begets respect. Dtruthspeaker respectfully, thoughtfully and closely looking at Leviticus 18 and this including Leviticus 18:22, God gives reasons for each of those various kinds of sexual liaisons, whether done openly or secretively, like, Judah and Tamar, king David and Bathsheba et cetera, why He doesnt endorse them. Now it will interest you to know, from reading Leviticus 18:22, that God, actually gave a specific reason why He was against the particular type of same sex liaison. Is that not so, Dtruthspeaker, hmm, that God gave the reason for objecting to it? I am sure you would have noticed for a very good reason, why Leviticus 18:22 was specific of the gender here (i.e. it didnt talk of a female version practised)

The word I think you are bringing to my attention is, "it is an abomination".

Then, I would reasonably ask that would you say any other Prohibition without the words, is not abominable? Because I think otherwise.

Dtruthspeaker:
The word I think you are bringing to my attention is, "it is an abomination".

Dtruthspeaker, affirmative, bullseye. Of course, you're absolutely right to think that, what is very necessary, for an adherent, apologist, disciple and strong enthusiast influenced by 2 Timothy 2:15, to take cognisance of, is the phrase "it is an abomination" of which, some bible versions, translate this original same phrase with descriptions like: "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera

Dtruthspeaker:
Then, I would reasonably ask that would you say any other Prohibition without the words, is not abominable?

Without trying to overstretch the word of God, can we please, just limit ourselves, to at what God specifically used "abominable" for, hmm? You do know what would happen when an initially stretched rubber band, held in front of your face and pulled, is suddenly released at one end, hmm? God intentionally and deliberately, in the whole of Leviticus 18, only used "abominable" for Leviticus 18:22.

Now, as a very good student of 2 Timothy 2:15, which I very much hope you truly are, reasonably, I would expect you to investigate, probe and examine Leviticus 18:22, closely and thoroughly, so that, with the help of the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirit, you rightly divide, the word of God, with sound judgement, as regards what exactly, under the hood or bonnet, is going on, in Leviticus 18:22 and then further get to know why and how this particular act, behaviour, practice is "abominable" or "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera

I apologise in advance, if for highlighting Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, I come across as a broken record but I am certain you know that Leviticus 20 is a mirror image of Leviticus 18, and so, that Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 are identical twins, joined at the hip, with the word "abomination," specifically mentioned about them but not for the other verses

Dtruthspeaker:
Because I think otherwise.

The difference between you and I, is, you think, but I know. I know the subject matter I am discussing here. I know that Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 is not talking of an ordinarily blanket ban. You also can see that God was specific of the gender here, meaning He didn't talk of a female version of the act.

You see Dtruthspeaker, God is not an author of confusion. God, specifically makes know what gives Him, a sense of disgust and/or feeling of intense dislike. Now, you really need to strap on the whole armour of 2 Timothy 2:15 to dissect Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, in order for you, to, in the real sense of the think word, think otherwise an/or differently

MuttleyLaff:



You need to pray for the manifestation of the spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit, because, it is obvious from your exhibited bad guesswork here, there is a dearth of it in you or about you.

Lol!

Chai! This guy, muttleylaff!

Here is a chronic and an unrepentant, dyed-wool defender and promoter of homosexuality - an act explicitly condemned in the Scriptures - telling somebody to pray for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Haahaaaa! Wonders shall never end!

Which Holy Spirit are you on about, Mr muttleylaff? Are there two types of Holy Spirits?

Would you say that you, muttleylaff, have the Set-apart(Holy) Spirit of the Most High?

No follower of the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the seas and everything in them will fail to recognize his voice through his Spirit as far as the abominable nature of homosexuality is concerned.

MuttleyLaff:


I wasn't born that way from my mother's womb. You weren't born that way from your mother's womb. Now because neither, you nor I, were born that way from our mother's womb, it will be a sin, for you or I, to indulge in that sort relationship or sexual set up because we aren't wired up that and so isn't natural to us.

And you claim that you are not into homosexuality? Heeheee! No one who expends so much energy defending the disgusting and abominable act of homosexuality can say he or she is not into it.

Three reasons may be responsible for this your unabashed defense of homosexuality:

1: You are into homosexuality. It does not matter if you have 600 wives, 1400 concubines, 700 children and have sex with women more than a fish swallows water in the sea.


2: You own a religious business/empire and your customers are mainly homosexuals.


3: You have been recruited to promote the homosexuality agenda of Satan and the more you do this, the higher he promotes you. It is highly probable you are a public figure and Satan raised you to do exactly what you are doing.

So, muttleylaff, which is it? Or is it all of the above?

Don't mask it with your so-called "speaking for the marginalized" and bla bla.

elated177:
Lol!

Chai! This guy, muttleylaff!

Here is a chronic and an unrepentant, dyed-wool defender and promoter of homosexuality - an act explicitly condemned in the Scriptures - telling somebody to pray for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Haahaaaa! Wonders shall never end!

Which Holy Spirit are you on about, Mr muttleylaff? Are there two types of Holy Spirits?

Would you say that you, muttleylaff, have the Set-apart(Holy) Spirit of the Most High?

No follower of the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the seas and everything in them will fail to recognize his voice through his Spirit as far as the abominable nature of homosexuality is concerned.

elated177:
And you claim that you are not into homosexuality? Heeheee! No one who expends so much energy defending the disgusting and abominable act of homosexuality can say he or she is not into it.

Three reasons may be responsible for this your unabashed defense of homosexuality:

1: You are into homosexuality. It does not matter if you have 600 wives, 1400 concubines, 700 children and have sex with women more than a fish swallows water in the sea.

2: You own a religious business/empire and your customers are mainly homosexuals.

3: You have been recruited to promote the homosexuality agenda of Satan and the more you do this, the higher he promotes you. It is highly probable you are a public figure and Satan raised you to do exactly what you are doing.

So, muttleylaff, which is it? Or is it all of the above?

Don't mask it with your so-called "speaking for the marginalized" and bla bla.

Sigh and smh. May God have mercy on your soul and forgive you, for you do not know all what you typed

elated177:


Lol!

Chai! This guy, muttleylaff!

Here is a chronic and an unrepentant, dyed-wool defender and promoter of homosexuality - an act explicitly condemned in the Scriptures - telling somebody to pray for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Haahaaaa! Wonders shall never end!

Which Holy Spirit are you on about, Mr muttleylaff? Are there two types of Holy Spirits?

Would you say that you, muttleylaff, have the Set-apart(Holy) Spirit of the Most High?

No follower of the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the seas and everything in them will fail to recognize his voice through his Spirit as far as the abominable nature of homosexuality is concerned.

Obedience can only be true if we are all under the same group!

As long as you're all advocates of personal choice of worship, the spirit of disobedience will continue to reign amongst you.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit working in their midst that's why the spirit is carrying them along as one family! John 17:21-23; Romans 15:5-6; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3; Philippians 2:2

Maximus69:
Obedience can only be true if we are all under the same group!

As long as you're all advocates of personal choice of worship, the spirit of disobedience will continue to reign amongst you.

Though members of JW forbids premarital sex and homosexuality, adultery et cetera, JW is not immune to the spirit of paedophilia. The spirit of paedophilia reigns amongst the rank and file of the organisation.

Maximus69:
Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit working in their midst that's why the spirit is carrying them along as one family! John 17:21-23; Romans 15:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3; Philippians 2:2

"⁴There are different spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them.
⁵There are different ways of serving, and yet the same Lord is served.
⁶There are different types of work to do, but the same God produces every gift in every person.
⁷The evidence of the Spirit's presence is given to each person for the common good of everyone.
⁸The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom.
The same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge.
⁹To another person the same Spirit gives [courageous] faith.
To another person the same Spirit gives the ability to heal.
¹⁰Another can work miracles.
Another can speak what God has revealed.
Another can tell the difference between spirits.
Another can speak in different kinds of languages. Another can interpret languages.
¹¹There is only one Spirit who does all these things by giving what God wants to give to each person"
- 1 Corinthians 12:4-11

Some people just like cultivating and preaching the gospel of self-deluding hypocrisy sha. Smh. What is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit? What are the evidences, that clearly shows, demonstrates, reveals et cetera that someone has the Holy Spirit?

MuttleyLaff:



It is not sin, speaking up for the truth. It is not sinful defending the marginalised, it isn't sin, defending the discriminated, it isn't sin defending the voiceless with giving them a voice.It isn't sin defending a fellow human being from fright of their lives being taken before their time. It is sin defending fellow human being professing lifetime love and commitment to each other. It is not sin, for who were born that way from their mother's womb.

No one is born a homosexual, bisexual or whatever sexuality apart from the natural, God-approved sexual relationship between a man and woman as sanctioned and sanctified in holy matrimony.

Let's say, hypothetically of course, that a particular man or woman came out of his or her mother's womb craving another man's body or woman's body for sexual relationship, it does not change the fact that such craving is unnatural and abominable.

Humans are designed by the Maker to have two legs and two hands. Naturally, humans come out of the womb with two legs and two hands. In some abnormal and very rare circumstances, some individuals come out of the womb with three or four legs. Do such cases make having four legs natural in humans?

Humans come out of the womb as one individual, two as in twin, three as in triplets, four as in quadruplets, etc. Whatever the number, they all naturally come out one after the other. Each one as a separate individual with his or her physical human attributes and features. In some rare and abnormal circumstances, two individuals come out of the womb joined at the head, the stomach, the hip, etc. Does the existence of such an anomaly make it natural?

Conjoined twins recognize the difference between them and other humans. They recognize that simply because they are twin does not mean that they should be conjoined at any part of their bodies. Other twins are proof to this fact. If they can, they will embrace the means of separating themselves in order to exist separately. The same goes for those with four legs or four hands.

Simply because a man or woman came out of his or her mother's womb, hypothetically, of course, craving sexual relationship with a person of the same sex, does not mean he or she should accept such an anomalous, unnatural and abnormal cravings. Such a man or a woman must realize that what he or she craves is unnatural, abnormal and, unlike in the cases of conjoined twins and four-legged or four-handed individuals, abominable and detestable.

Maximus69:


Obedience can only be true if we are all under the same group!

As long as you're all advocates of personal choice of worship, the spirit of disobedience will continue to reign amongst you.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit working in their midst that's why the spirit is carrying them along as one family! John 17:21-23; Romans 15:5-6; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3; Philippians 2:2

Na trouble you dey look for so o.

What do you mean by personal worship? So anyone who does not belong to your "group" has the spirit of disobedience, huh? Do you think that the righteousness of one individual can be attributed to or credited to another individual simply because they belong to the same "group"?

Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

There is no mention of group in that instruction above. The righteous walk is an individual one.

MuttleyLaff:
Though members of JW forbids premarital sex and homosexuality, adultery et cetera, JW is not immune to the spirit of paedophilia. The spirit of paedophilia reigns amongst the rank and file of the organisation.

Some people just like cultivating and preaching the gospel of self-deluding hypocrisy sha. Smh. What is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit? What are the evidences, that clearly shows, demonstrates, reveals et cetera that someone has the Holy Spirit?

Just thoroughly meditate on the underlined!

Then answer the following questions

(1) Apart from far away news of JWs in foreign lands how many JWs has been accused/ caught or arrested in your own locality for pedophilia?

(2) Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot and denied by Peter, the two were Apostles (closest confidants). Please does this implies that Jesus' claim of being the best counselor the word ever had untrue?

(3) Since two out of his twelve closest confidants are not trust worthy, should we conclude that we can equate Jesus' teachings with that of his religious critics of whom such reports of betrayal was never mentioned in the scriptures?

(4) If Jesus' own closest confidants could betray and deny him publicly, should people believe in Jesus as the Wonderful Counselor Isaiah prophesied about? Isaiah 9:6

MuttleyLaff:


Sigh and smh. May God have mercy on your soul and forgive you, for you do not know all what you typed

Don't worry about my soul. My soul is rooted in my Maker, Yahveh of Hosts.

Worry about your own soul, muttleylaff, since you are here expending so much energy defending the abominable and while at it, unashamedly twisting the Scriptures without a single solitary care in the world.


Answer the questions first.

MuttleyLaff:
Dtruthspeaker, affirmative, bullseye. Of course, you're absolutely right to think that, what is very necessary, for an adherent, apologist, disciple and strong enthusiast influenced by 2 Timothy 2:15, to take cognisance of, is the phrase "it is an abomination" of which, some bible versions, translate this original same phrase with descriptions like: "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera

Without trying to overstretch the word of God, can we please, just limit ourselves, to at what God specifically used "abominable" for, hmm? You do know what would happen when an initially stretched rubber band, held in front of your face and pulled, is suddenly released at one end, hmm? God intentionally and deliberately, in the whole of Leviticus 18, only used "abominable" for Leviticus 18:22.

Now, as a very good student of 2 Timothy 2:15, which I very much hope you truly are, reasonably, I would expect you to investigate, probe and examine Leviticus 18:22, closely and thoroughly, so that, with the help of the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirit, you rightly divide, the word of God, with sound judgement, as regards what exactly, under the hood or bonnet, is going on, in Leviticus 18:22 and then further get to know why and how this particular act, behaviour, practice is "abominable" or "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera

I apologise in advance, if for highlighting Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, I come across as a broken record but I am certain you know that Leviticus 20 is a mirror image of Leviticus 18, and so, that Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 are identical twins, joined at the hip, with the word "abomination," specifically mentioned about them but not for the other verses

The difference between you and I, is, you think, but I know. I know the subject matter I am discussing here. I know that Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 is not talking of an ordinarily blanket ban. You also can see that God was specific of the gender here, meaning He didn't talk of a female version of the act.

You see Dtruthspeaker, God is not an author of confusion. God, specifically makes know what gives Him, a sense of disgust and/or feeling of intense dislike. Now, you really need to strap on the whole armour of 2 Timothy 2:15 to dissect Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, in order for you, to, in the real sense of the think word, think otherwise an/or differently

I do love how you write!

Now let me share more of what I am absolutely certain of.

First, it is Settled (I sure do hope so) that Exodus/Leviticus refers to the Lord's Commandments or Laws.

Being Laws, there are 3 categories of Laws which the Commandments fall into in here, being;

1) Prohibitive Laws (Must Never be Done) eg "Thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife",

2) Instructive Laws (ye shall keep my statutes) and

3) Permissive Laws (and if ye offer a sacrifice of Peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will).

Now, the Provision in Leviticus 18:22 falls into Prohibitive Laws and the word "it is an abomination" reasonably shows the great hatred for the doing of that specific act thereby increasing the Severity of its Prohibition!

This is my humble submission

For, permit me to share another thing I uncovered and I now know.

Based on the Commandments, we know that which is sin. Now, what is sin?

The short cut answer is Sin refers to "that which offends", therefore, "offence".

Offence refers to "that which grieves a person".

How do Offences occur? Christ supplied the Answer, to wit- "Trespass"

What is Trespass? Trespass refers to Any Breach , Infringement, violation or interference of the Natural Rights of Another Person.

Therefore, Sin = Offences = Trespass!

Therefore, where there is a Trespass, Some One Must be Complaining about it.

Therefore, by the Commandments, God is already telling us before hand what matters He is going to complain about and which He shall carry out any action He deems fit to remedy the Wrong or Sin or Offence or Trespass!

Upon the Law "Where there is a Wrong, there Must Be A Remedy"

And remember, even our "bodies" are not "Solely" ours, so as we say in Law, God has an Equitable Interest or He is a Co-owner of Us hence Joint Ownership!

Which means when we use ourselves, in a manner inconsistent with His Rights, He Must Complain and He can maintain an action against us for Wrongful use and Trespass of our "bodies".

My humble submission!

elated177:
Don't worry about my soul. My soul is rooted in my Maker, Yahveh of Hosts.

You have a false sense of security that your soul is rooted in your Maker, Yahveh of Hosts, who easily can and/or will pull a surprise Matthew 7:23, Luke 13:25 and Luke 13:27 on you, for you not making every effort to enter through the narrow door.

elated177:
Worry about your own soul, muttleylaff, since you are here expending so much energy defending the abominable and while at it, unashamedly twisting the Scriptures without a single solitary care in the world.

This is soft work and grace for me, it is not expending so much energy at all. I have in no way defended what is abominable or disagreeable to God. God does not find agape love between two consenting adults as something that's abominable or disagreeable to Him. It is you who because of your shallowness, lack of depth, ignorance, cluelessness and your sheer ineptitude of contextually understanding isolated bible verse, that pathologically and unashamedly is twisting the Scriptures without a genuine legitimate single solitary care in the world

elated177:
Answer the questions first.

I had already answered the question. If you hadn't noticed, I am the first to comment on the thread with answers

Maximus69:
[s]Just thoroughly meditate on the underlined!

Then answer the following questions

(1) Apart from far away news of JWs in foreign lands how many JWs has been accused/ caught or arrested in your own locality for pedophilia?

(2) Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot and denied by Peter, the two were Apostles (closest confidants). Please does this implies that Jesus' claim of being the best counselor the word ever had untrue?

(3) Since two out of his twelve closest confidants are not trust worthy, should we conclude that we can equate Jesus' teachings with that of his religious critics of whom such reports of betrayal was never mentioned in the scriptures?

(4) If Jesus' own closest confidants could betray and deny him publicly, should people believe in Jesus as the Wonderful Counselor Isaiah prophesied about? Isaiah 9:6 [/s]

Thank you for reinforcing my point, that JW is not immune to the spirit of paedophilia and that the spirit of paedophilia reigns amongst the rank and file, even leadership of the organisation.

I simply, was letting you know, to thoughtfully meditate before readily jumping on, to start painting a sanctimonious, holier-than-the-rest Jehovah Witnesses picture here because by your very own admission, the JW organisation does fart and it, does smell, because it isn't a deodorised farts nor does it smell, like a bed of roses

Dtruthspeaker:
I do love how you write!

To God be the glory

Dtruthspeaker:
Now let me share more of what I am absolutely certain of.

[img]https://s5/images/LetsHearThis.gif[/img]
I am all ears Dtruthspeaker, you have my undivided attention.

Dtruthspeaker:
First, it is Settled (I sure do hope so) that Exodus/Leviticus refers to the Lord's Commandments or Laws.

Being Laws, there are 3 categories of Laws which the Commandments fall into in here, being;

1) Prohibitive Laws (Must Never be Done) eg "Thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife",

2) Instructive Laws (ye shall keep my statutes) and

3) Permissive Laws (and if ye offer a sacrifice of Peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will).

Now, the Provision in Leviticus 18:22 falls into Prohibitive Laws and the word "it is an abomination" reasonably shows the great hatred for the doing of that specific act thereby increasing the Severity of its Prohibition!

This is my humble submission

"Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience."
- Colossians 3:12

"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride,
but in humility consider others more important than yourselves"
- Philippians 2:3

Dtruthspeaker, you see brother, the common denominator among Psalm 138:6, Proverbs 3:34, Proverbs 29:23, Matthew 23:12, Luke 1:52, Luke 14:11, James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, is that God exalts the humble. God opposes the proud, the likes who have shown their faces on this thread but gives grace to the humble. I just need to put it out there, that I thank God for the humility, you've consistently displayed not just on this thread but also noticed upandan the Religion forum.

I appreciate your beautiful breakdown above concerning the three categories of Laws which the Commandments fall into, but I was expecting that by now, you would have already investigated, probed and examined Leviticus 18:22, closely and thoroughly, so that, with the help of the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirit, you by now, would have already rightly divided, the word of God, with sound judgement, as regards what exactly, under the hood or bonnet, is going on, in Leviticus 18:22 and then on top, got to know why and how this particular act, behaviour, practice is "abominable" or "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera.

What specifically, is it that is abominable in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. What is it and why is it abominable. There is another verse that throws more light on what the act is, but I'll leave it for the Holy Spirit to guide and reveal it to you.

Dtruthspeaker:
For, permit me to share another thing I uncovered and I now know.

Based on the Commandments, we know that which is sin. Now, what is sin?

The short cut answer is Sin refers to "that which offends", therefore, "offence".

Offence refers to "that which grieves a person".

How do Offences occur? Christ supplied the Answer, to wit- "Trespass"

What is Trespass? Trespass refers to Any Breach , Infringement, violation or interference of the Natural Rights of Another Person.

Therefore, Sin = Offences = Trespass!

Therefore, where there is a Trespass, Some One Must be Complaining about it.

Therefore, by the Commandments, God is already telling us before hand what matters He is going to complain about and which He shall carry out any action He deems fit to remedy the Wrong or Sin or Offence or Trespass!

Upon the Law "Where there is a Wrong, there Must Be A Remedy"

And remember, even our "bodies" are not "Solely" ours, so as we say in Law, God has an Equitable Interest or He is a Co-owner of Us hence Joint Ownership!

Which means when we use ourselves, in a manner inconsistent with His Rights, He Must Complain and He can maintain an action against us for Wrongful use and Trespass of our "bodies".

My humble submission!

I appreciate your honesty, sincerity and straightforwardness. Please allow me to drop that from a Hebrew/Jewish POV, sin, in a simplest and purest form, means missing the mark. It is like, shooting an arrow, at archery target rings but miss hitting the centred inner bulls-eye ring.

A&E, missed the mark in the garden of Eden and so at the last hour, sinned and consequently failed to achieve a result that was intended. "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end", so says God, in Jeremiah 29:11, but we aren't talking of A&E here, we are dealing with the Israelites and their arrival on the land of Canaan, the Promised Land of inheritance, the land flowing with milk and honey and we specifically, are talking of both Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.

Please again I warn to let us not get ahead of ourselves, but to limit ourselves to the context and confines of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, otherwise, we will fall victim to doing an eisegesis of them two verses, namely Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.

I'll give you time to go find out what you'll be able to uncover and know more about concerning Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13

MuttleyLaff:
Thank you for reinforcing my point, that JW is not immune to the spirit of paedophilia and that the spirit of paedophilia reigns amongst the rank and file, even leadership of the organisation.

I simply, was letting you know, to thoughtfully meditate before readily jumping on, to start painting a sanctimonious, holier-than-the-rest Jehovah Witnesses picture here because by your very own admission, the JW organisation does fart and it, does smell, because it isn't a deodorised farts nor does it smell, like a bed of roses

That's why i often ignore you whenever you are asking for my opinion, now you refused to address the four questions, clearly you hate the truth.
Thank you!

Maximus69:
That's why i often ignore you whenever you are asking for my opinion, now you refused to address the four questions, clearly you hate the truth.
Thank you!

Do you think I cease to exist, whenever you slide back and/or withdraw into your shell ni, hmm?

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit working in their midst ..." indeed you claimed, but when I asked: "What is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit? What are the evidences, that clearly shows, demonstrates, reveals et cetera that someone has the Holy Spirit?" what did I get back, as a response, if not first grade drivel and the usual spin. Not a single answer related to the question asked was advanced, except you admiring yourself and the JW organisation in the mirror, literally asking it, who is fairest one of all. Sigh and smh

Did it cross your mind that, maybe if you had the decency to first answer my question(s), I might have felt obliged to reciprocate and answer your dead beat questions

If I wanted opinion, I will explicitly state thats what I am after. I asked for the truth and fact, not your opinion, that defo will change in the face of absolute truth and fact(s), so kindly shove your hollow and insincere "thank you" up where the sun dont shine

MuttleyLaff:
"A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil"
- Proverbs 6:18

What do you think idol worship is? Is it devising straight plans. Is it feet that run rapidly to good. What is good in idolatry and/or idol worship, hmm?

The word "homosexuality" never got into the original text, whether Aramaic or Greek. The word was invented in the 18 century by a German. Fyi, it is promiscuity of any shape, form and/or guise, that the scripture frowns on.

Sex is created for procreation and pleasure

Do you know the context surrounding how and what 1 Corinthians 6:9 was written and why?

You asked what an effeminate is. If you must know, yes I do, I knew of at least two in boarding school when growing up. They had feminine high pitch voices, feminine mannerisms, feminine style of walking (i.e. bombom shaking, side to side when walking) but guess for free. They were as straight as they come. Even one of them, I know is happily married

If you had meditated and mulled over Deuteronomy 23:17-18 first, just as I advised you to reflect on, you wouldn't be thinking you have a valid point trying to use effeminate, as a weapon to wield.

In my heterosexual relationship, sometimes my missus takes on the role of male and vice versa. We just complement each other.

You think you are God. We thank God, it's not you, who has the last say who or not sees and enters the kingdom of Heaven

Solite3, what's your understanding of the purpose and intent of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? You can throw in the "why"

Oturugbeke !!!



Bros, do you mean your missus dey chook
3rd leg apparatus inside your Yan*sh ?


Just asking Sha

Janosky:
[s]Oturugbeke !!!

Bros, do you mean your missus dey chook
3rd leg apparatus inside your Yan*sh ?

Just asking Sha[/s]

Matthew 12:34, says:
"You brood of vipers! How can you speak good things, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks"

Maximus69, coma see one your "Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit working in their midst ..." brethren. Smh. His ignorance knows no bounds

MuttleyLaff:
To God be the glory

[img]https://s5/images/LetsHearThis.gif[/img]
I am all ears Dtruthspeaker, you have my undivided attention.

"Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience."
- Colossians 3:12

"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride,
but in humility consider others more important than yourselves"
- Philippians 2:3

Dtruthspeaker, you see brother, the common denominator among Psalm 138:6, Proverbs 3:34, Proverbs 29:23, Matthew 23:12, Luke 1:52, Luke 14:11, James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, is that God exalts the humble. God opposes the proud, the likes who have shown their faces on this thread but gives grace to the humble. I just need to put it out there, that I thank God for the humility, you've consistently displayed not just on this thread but also noticed upandan the Religion forum.

I appreciate your beautiful breakdown above concerning the three categories of Laws which the Commandments fall into, but I was expecting that by now, you would have already investigated, probed and examined Leviticus 18:22, closely and thoroughly, so that, with the help of the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirit, you by now, would have already rightly divided, the word of God, with sound judgement, as regards what exactly, under the hood or bonnet, is going on, in Leviticus 18:22 and then on top, got to know why and how this particular act, behaviour, practice is "abominable" or "it is a detestable sin" or "it is an abomination" or "it is a detestable act" or "that is detestable" or "It is disgusting" or "God hates that" et cetera.

What specifically, is it that is abominable in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. What is it and why is it abominable. There is another verse that throws more light on what the act is, but I'll leave it for the Holy Spirit to guide and reveal it to you.

I appreciate your honesty, sincerity and straightforwardness. Please allow me to drop that from a Hebrew/Jewish POV, sin, in a simplest and purest form, means missing the mark. It is like, shooting an arrow, at archery target rings but miss hitting the centred inner bulls-eye ring.

A&E, missed the mark in the garden of Eden and so at the last hour, sinned and consequently failed to achieve a result that was intended. "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end", so says God, in Jeremiah 29:11, but we aren't talking of A&E here, we are dealing with the Israelites and their arrival on the land of Canaan, the Promised Land of inheritance, the land flowing with milk and honey and we specifically, are talking of both Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.

Please again I warn to let us not get ahead of ourselves, but to limit ourselves to the context and confines of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, otherwise, we will fall victim to doing an eisegesis of them two verses, namely Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.

I'll give you time to go find out what you'll be able to uncover and know more about concerning Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13

Truthfully I can not see past The Laws and that that statement "it is an abomination" just makes it even worse.

In my view it is like Adultery is Bad but Homosexuality is Worse based on How God called it "abominable" Twice,

I fear the Laws so much so that I do not wish to enquire why a Worse Law is worse!

To me it is like going to NEPA Power Station to enquire how and why the Power Station is dangerous while for me I am satisfied with just knowing the road to the Power Station so that I avoid them both.