was there any mark of the beast then? certainly not and there was no image of the beast.yet saints were killed.it was persecution and killing and some sort of lesser tribulation.mind u in the old testament enoch and elijah were two prophets raptured into heaven and after Jesus died and arose,he was raptured alive into heaven.all other saints and christians after then have been dying via Matyrdom and lesser tribulation.i want to make it clear that anychristian who dies a violent death or is killed for his faith is a matyr and has come out of tribulation.many christians r dying today and its not all that dies a violent death or has been killed for believing in Jesus christ and holding and keeping the testimony of christ nor are christians being killed for refusing the mark of the beast which would be before rapture(as u claimed)but the bible said after.it is after rapture Matyrdom becomes the full price of salvation.
get it clear,many christians have died before rapture but not all were matyred(killed for keep

Honesty007:
2)Did Jesus die only for the jews ?
religious deeds or acts of good would not make u a christian but believing in Jesus christ and obeying his commandments and doing his will would take u to heaven.do u know that there are many religious people who go to church but do not believe in christ? and do u know that all other religions outside christ are false? why then would satan not create false religions to lure many to hell? Judaism,islam,roman catholicsm are the leading false religiouns in the mystery of iniquity.islam birthed terrorism and the others religious bigotry.any religion that doesnt believe in Jesus christ,nor his name or his death and resurection are antichrist in nature.
the tribulation u r refering to was the persecution of the early church by false religions and roman rule but take note the person of antichrist had not come.it was the roman church system that had been persecuting the jews and even killed Jesus christ and his apostles.Judaism also was a blood sucker.was there any mark of the beas

Christ is not a nick per but it is unequivocally the surname of the elect. Those of the house of spiritual circumcision. This circumcision is an engraphment program process which candinal initiation procedure is believe Jesus, confess him as your King of heart that engagement through baptism in his name, Lord Jesus Christ and not titles, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. These are the true virgins

The tribulation u r refering to that christians or saints os tin church would face before rapture is after the rapture and is called great tribulation and not tribulation.
Also it was not only killings of the saints or left behind christians that makes it significant but the issue of the terrible vials,and events that makes it a great tribulation. mind u,people who repented and accepted Jesus christ during the great tribulation would be called tribulation saints and they were beheaded for keeping and "holding" the the testimony of Jesus chrirst .u cant die for something u were not giving or a truth so precious after living with a lie all u life. u wud definitely die for a truth-rev 20:4-5
such people who wud die 4 such truth are jews who would believe in Jesus christ after the rapture,left behind christians who are matyred and false religion and athiest who repent because the rapture takes their enemies away from them and the open graves proving Jesus christ is the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD and the son of GOD.

Honesty007:
was there any mark of the beast then? certainly not and there was no image of the beast.yet saints were killed.it was persecution and killing and some sort of lesser tribulation.mind u in the old testament enoch and elijah were two prophets raptured into heaven and after Jesus died and arose,he was raptured alive into heaven.all other saints and christians after then have been dying via Matyrdom and lesser tribulation.i want to make it clear that anychristian who dies a violent death or is killed for his faith is a matyr and has come out of tribulation.many christians r dying today and its not all that dies a violent death or has been killed for believing in Jesus christ and holding and keeping the testimony of christ nor are christians being killed for refusing the mark of the beast which would be before rapture(as u claimed)but the bible said after.it is after rapture Matyrdom becomes the full price of salvation.
get it clear,many christians have died before rapture but not all were matyred(killed for keep

The Beast of revelation is an office and from your question I can see that you are not ignorant about the Beast and his images. There's original and there is like original. The the who will receed the great judgement is not known yet but the office is know. All the saints who died before Jesus' first coming came out of their tombs and walked around Jerusalem immediately Jesus shouted, "it is finished" before rapturing onto the heavens. It is going to happen again someday.
Those Christian who missed the rapture will be the ones counted as matyre but their eyes will be cleared by the time they are not able to find certain people and the pressure to receive the Mark of Cain is been imposed on them

brodalokie:


Christ is not a nick per but it is unequivocally the surname of the elect. Those of the house of spiritual circumcision. This circumcision is an engraphment program process which candinal initiation procedure is believe Jesus, confess him as your King of heart that engagement through baptism in his name, Lord Jesus Christ and not titles, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. These are the true virgins

u r a learned person but u have not come to the knowledge of the truth.too much letter kills but the spirit giveth life. u r like nicodemus who had titles but was ignorant of salvation and a master of religiousstudies that cannot save. mind u ,Jesus christ said a man can receive nothing except it was given to him from.u r from beneath,i am from above.has heaven recognized u,does GOD know u.all what u leaned would pass away but the word of GOD(Jesus) abides foreves.u r preaching another gospel.u r an antichrist.knowledge puffs up.

alBHAGDADI:


The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are the same event, not separate. The below passage shatters all you have been saying since. It shows that the rapture and the second coming of Jesus will not happen until the Antichrist is revealed who will persecuted Christians.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

u r wrong,the rapture is not the same as the day of the lord which

whitebeard:
it will shock u

Shock? I think there’s something in the Bible that’s rather interesting. John 8:32 says the truth shall set you free. Maybe humanity can only be “free” upon being aware of this particular truth:

https://www.nairaland.com/4831069/truth-set-free-john-8

Just an opinion, don’t fret ;-)

Honesty007:


u r a learned person but u have not come to the knowledge of the truth.too much letter kills but the spirit giveth life. u r like nicodemus who had titles but was ignorant of salvation and a master of religiousstudies that cannot save. mind u ,Jesus christ said a man can receive nothing except it was given to him from.u r from beneath,i am from above.has heaven recognized u,does GOD know u.all what u leaned would pass away but the word of GOD(Jesus) abides foreves.u r preaching another gospel.u r an antichrist.knowledge puffs up.

The kingdom of God is not yet come. There are still sicknesses, murderers, religion, dirty politics and what have you out there. And lastly the person of Jesus Christ is not yet accepted. You don't wanna tell me you think we're already in the millennium and the kingdom of this world have become of the Lord and His Christ. It is not a drama as you may think, but this current world entire system will be purged with fire and dead bodies will wake up and inherit the new one together with the others alive.
This is not the current computer dream world kind of reality you may be enjoying now which will be the very tool that will be used to unite the globe when the Beast takes his seat someday. The one eyed gods with a big mouth of blastphemy against the true God. The eye of Horus or rather the third eyes which the serpent tried to introduce to Adam in the beginning of creation in compesation for sleeping with his wife and resulted the birth of the second specie of Man, the same intelligence that Nimrod learned from his grandfather Ham the cursed one and founder of Egypt and tried to rule the whole world and God stopped him. It is not a surprise that the human race hasn't evolved more than these two since then. The Holy Spirit will always feed of God's word (The original seed/Holy Bible). I want you to look at your life in this light and tell me whether you are there yet.


Add: Mind you, Heaven is not just recognizing it's citizens. They're known before they were even a thought in the mind of their earthly parent. I have biblical proofs for this. You are the one who is preaching another gospel.

Romans 9:11-13 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

True the rapture happens after the tribulation

alBHAGDADI:


Pastor Steven Anderson is my mentor. I watch his YouTube videos almost everyday.

Woww... Nice.
The believers need to grow up and back to their Bible(Not what Reverend said). Don't be adamant in heart but be like the Berean early Christians the bible commended, study your Bible and come ask questions about what Op had said. Awake people from ur precarious slumbers.

brodalokie:


The Beast of revelation is an office and from your question I can see that you are not ignorant about the Beast and his images. There's original and there is like original. The the who will receed the great judgement is not known yet but the office is know. All the saints who died before Jesus' first coming came out of their tombs and walked around Jerusalem immediately Jesus shouted, "it is finished" before rapturing onto the heavens. It is going to happen again someday.
Those Christian who missed the rapture will be the ones counted as matyre but their eyes will be cleared by the time they are not able to find certain people and the pressure to receive the Mark of Cain is been imposed on them

You guys don't ever give bible passages to back your fantasies up.

adelee777:

You guys don't ever give bible passages to back your fantasies up.

It took years of classes and studies to understand or see the picture. Even if I post a verse, it will not change anything. But if you want to have private classes I have time. No problem. They are not just a fantasy. I don't mind your word sha

Image123:


What? So who was the Antichrist?

Oga Image!!! Long time!!! And imagine that it was the fact that your witty response made me laugh so hard that I'm saying hello after so long. Na wa o!!! How have you been, Sir?

brodalokie:


It took years of classes and studies to understand or see the picture. Even if I post a verse, it will not change anything. But if you want to have private classes I have time. No problem. They are not just a fantasy. I don't mind your word sha

As a christian I don't care what is taught in classes or bible schools bla bla if it negates what the scriptures say. If you have any scriptural backing you would put it.

oloriLFC:
Do a thorough reading of the bible and you'll be enlightened. I can never be deceived

Can you support your opinion with a verse in the bible?

That will be great.

adelee777:

As a christian I don't care what is taught in classes or bible schools bla bla if it negates what the scriptures say. If you have any scriptural backing you would put it.

Why don't you second what I have said and put a scriptural backing on my behalf, my brother in fantasy land?

Salvation, Jesus, election, foreordination, predestination, eternal security is a fantasy?
If I should say give me a break. It doesn't mean, break my nose.
The joke is also on you.

alBHAGDADI

Good you pointed this out. Many Christians are being deceived about this. Matthew 24 is clear on this immediately after tribulation.

Many people don't read their bibles any more. They only believe what their pastor tell them in church without confirming if it's true or not.

Ihedinobi3:

Oga Image!!! Long time!!! And imagine that it was the fact that your witty response made me laugh so hard that I'm saying hello after so long. Na wa o!!! How have you been, Sir?

Been very fine my brother. Well done sir. No much time on NL like before.

Image123:


Been very fine my brother. Well done sir. No much time on NL like before.

Thank God for that. Of course, life has moved on. We do too. But it is really good to see you still around these parts.

January: Just A New Universe And Real Yahweh

The antichrist has been revealed. the beast has come.
tribulations: Holocaust, world wars

read my recent posts
peace of Christ Jesus.

alBHAGDADI:

All my life, I've always believed in a rapture doctrine which says before the great tribulation and before the unveiling of the Antichrist, Christians will be raptured into heaven to meet Jesus. They say Jesus will come like a thief in the night, secretly to help his believers escape the tribulation which the Antichrist will unleash.

This concept has been made popular by movies like LEFT BEHIND and some America. televangelists. Before 1800, there was no church or preacher holding such doctrine. It was started by a man named John Darby who even wrote his own Bible which lacked key verses. Today, the doctrine is held by roughly 65% of Christians. The doctrine that we will escape the tribulation is false and not Biblical.

Jesus himself spoke of when the rapture will take place. Notice how his disciples asked him to tell them what the signs of his coming will be.

Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Now read the further

24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 9, Jesus spoke of Christians getting delievered up for persecution and are killed. That is the tribulation. But false teachers have taught that the people who will face such are unbelievers who are left behind after Christians have been raptured. Well, basically we all agree that the tribulation involves persecution. But the confusion here is who are the people to face the tribulation? Some believe it is unbelievers after Christians have been raptured, while some say it is Christians who will be persecuted by the Antichrist for failing to received the mark of the beast. Let's allow the Bible settle this confusion.

First, let us see whether Christians will be raptured before the tribulation or not.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But some people have deceived many by saying that what Jesus said in Mathew 24 cannot be the rapture because he was talking to the Jews and not to Christians. Why is it not the rapture when it is the same event described by Paul? Trumpet, angels, God's people getting caught up to heaven etc.

Yes, Jesus was talking to the Jews because his disciples who asked him to tell them about the end time were still under Judaism. But if you read Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see that it's the same thing Jesus said in Mathew 24. At the last verse of Mark 13, Jesus said what he's saying to the people whom some quarters are saying is not the church, he's saying to ALL which includes the church.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Now, we see that the tribulation occurs before the rapture, but who carries out the tribulation and what is it exactly? The tribulation is the persecution of Christians at the end time such as never was and never will be.

Mathew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christians will be beheaded and persecuted all around the world. This persecution will be carried out by the Antichrist engineered by Satan himself.

Mathew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


The Abomination of Desolation is the Antichrist who exhaust himself above everything called god and forces people to worship him.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Did you read the passage above? Did you see where it spoke about the coming of our Lord Jesus? Did you see in verse 3 that the day which Jesus will come will not exists until the man of sin (Antichrist) is revealed? Read verse 4 as well.

Yet some people say Christians won't face the tribulation even when the Bible says the Antichrist who will persecute during the tribulation will come first before Jesus Christ who will come and deliver Christians from his grip. Many will mistake him for Christ.

Mathew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This Antichrist will wage war against the saints.

Revelations 13:4-8

13 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As you can see above, the Antichrist exhalst himself and blasphemes God's name. Is this not the same man Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, whom he said must first come before Jesus Christ comes back?

Now as seen in verse 7 above, the Antichrist wages war against the saints and will overcome many. Why is he waging war against the saint if some people believe the saints wont be around during the tribulations? In verse 13, everyone on earth is seen worshiping the Antichrist. Those who won't worship him are those whose names are written in the book of life. This is what will anger the Antichrist and make him wage war against them with great tribulation and persecution.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What we see so far is that people with their names in the book of life won't worship the Antichrist. But I ask, what are they doing on earth? I thought some people said they would have been raptured and escaped.

The proponent of a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine have said that the people left behind will be unbelievers who will now have to pay with their blood to get saved. They are the ones the Antichrist will persecute. This is a lie. If all Christians will be raptured before the tribulation, then those left will be unbelievers who are already tools of Satan. Do you expect someone who doesn't give a damn about Jesus to stand with Jesus when a cutlass is placed on his neck? He will gladly received the mark of the beast because he's not used to suffering for Christ whom he never believed in.

In revelations 12:17, we see that Satan will make war against those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ. How some people believe that the people that Satan will make war against are unbelievers is what baffles me. Do unbelievers hold the testimony of Jesus? No.

Basically, what we've seen so far is that the Antichrist comes first, then follows a great tribulation which involves the persecution of Christians. It is immediately after the tribulation that Jesus Christ will appear and will redeem his people through a rapture.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Prepare yourself for that day which is fast approaching.

True but focus on ISAIAH 60:1-3

99 percent correct...well written.

alBHAGDADI:

All my life, I've always believed in a rapture doctrine which says before the great tribulation and before the unveiling of the Antichrist, Christians will be raptured into heaven to meet Jesus. They say Jesus will come like a thief in the night, secretly to help his believers escape the tribulation which the Antichrist will unleash.

This concept has been made popular by movies like LEFT BEHIND and some America. televangelists. Before 1800, there was no church or preacher holding such doctrine. It was started by a man named John Darby who even wrote his own Bible which lacked key verses. Today, the doctrine is held by roughly 65% of Christians. The doctrine that we will escape the tribulation is false and not Biblical.

Jesus himself spoke of when the rapture will take place. Notice how his disciples asked him to tell them what the signs of his coming will be.

Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Now read the further

24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 9, Jesus spoke of Christians getting delievered up for persecution and are killed. That is the tribulation. But false teachers have taught that the people who will face such are unbelievers who are left behind after Christians have been raptured. Well, basically we all agree that the tribulation involves persecution. But the confusion here is who are the people to face the tribulation? Some believe it is unbelievers after Christians have been raptured, while some say it is Christians who will be persecuted by the Antichrist for failing to received the mark of the beast. Let's allow the Bible settle this confusion.

First, let us see whether Christians will be raptured before the tribulation or not.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But some people have deceived many by saying that what Jesus said in Mathew 24 cannot be the rapture because he was talking to the Jews and not to Christians. Why is it not the rapture when it is the same event described by Paul? Trumpet, angels, God's people getting caught up to heaven etc.

Yes, Jesus was talking to the Jews because his disciples who asked him to tell them about the end time were still under Judaism. But if you read Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see that it's the same thing Jesus said in Mathew 24. At the last verse of Mark 13, Jesus said what he's saying to the people whom some quarters are saying is not the church, he's saying to ALL which includes the church.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Now, we see that the tribulation occurs before the rapture, but who carries out the tribulation and what is it exactly? The tribulation is the persecution of Christians at the end time such as never was and never will be.

Mathew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christians will be beheaded and persecuted all around the world. This persecution will be carried out by the Antichrist engineered by Satan himself.

Mathew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


The Abomination of Desolation is the Antichrist who exhaust himself above everything called god and forces people to worship him.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Did you read the passage above? Did you see where it spoke about the coming of our Lord Jesus? Did you see in verse 3 that the day which Jesus will come will not exists until the man of sin (Antichrist) is revealed? Read verse 4 as well.

Yet some people say Christians won't face the tribulation even when the Bible says the Antichrist who will persecute during the tribulation will come first before Jesus Christ who will come and deliver Christians from his grip. Many will mistake him for Christ.

Mathew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This Antichrist will wage war against the saints.

Revelations 13:4-8

13 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As you can see above, the Antichrist exhalst himself and blasphemes God's name. Is this not the same man Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, whom he said must first come before Jesus Christ comes back?

Now as seen in verse 7 above, the Antichrist wages war against the saints and will overcome many. Why is he waging war against the saint if some people believe the saints wont be around during the tribulations? In verse 13, everyone on earth is seen worshiping the Antichrist. Those who won't worship him are those whose names are written in the book of life. This is what will anger the Antichrist and make him wage war against them with great tribulation and persecution.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What we see so far is that people with their names in the book of life won't worship the Antichrist. But I ask, what are they doing on earth? I thought some people said they would have been raptured and escaped.

The proponent of a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine have said that the people left behind will be unbelievers who will now have to pay with their blood to get saved. They are the ones the Antichrist will persecute. This is a lie. If all Christians will be raptured before the tribulation, then those left will be unbelievers who are already tools of Satan. Do you expect someone who doesn't give a damn about Jesus to stand with Jesus when a cutlass is placed on his neck? He will gladly received the mark of the beast because he's not used to suffering for Christ whom he never believed in.

In revelations 12:17, we see that Satan will make war against those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ. How some people believe that the people that Satan will make war against are unbelievers is what baffles me. Do unbelievers hold the testimony of Jesus? No.

Basically, what we've seen so far is that the Antichrist comes first, then follows a great tribulation which involves the persecution of Christians. It is immediately after the tribulation that Jesus Christ will appear and will redeem his people through a rapture.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Prepare yourself for that day which is fast approaching.

No bible verse to back your assumption?

joshnnanna:
You need to study more.

The Church of Jesus Christ will be raptured in glory sometime soon. But those who didn't really believe our message now that we are sharing it will be forced to believe becos of the rapture.

Then they will be the ones who will face this great tribulation becos the constraining power of evil in this world (which is the church and the holy spirit) would have left by then (rapture) thereby giving Satan a field day to torment those who still identify with Jesus.

No biblical backing?

Ataegbiti:
Albhagdadi my broda, I m not with you on this. For starters, a pre or post tribulation view of rapture is not a fundamental of the Christian faith. What is most important is salvation thru Christ alone, thru faith alone. It seems to me me that we are agreed on that and I can call u 'broda'.
Now on the tribulation. I wish I had the time to use the Bible to back up my stance but I don't. It is a wont of time, not of biblical fact.
A careful study of the Bible will reveal that Jesus will 'return' to earth twice. First for His church, and then, to church the rest of the world.
On His First return, believers will be caught up into d clouds, out of the earth to meet him. We would be with him for 7 years. In that 7 years will the tribulation be. At end of the 7 years, He will then, along with His saints, physically descend to the mount olives, the exact same spot that He ascended. This will be a global event. The whole world will witness it. It will be the fulfilment of what the angels told the onlooking Apostles wen Christ ascended - that this same man u saw being taken up, u will also see him come down again.
We will reign with Him on the earth for a thousand years.
There's no sense in subjecting Christ's church to the wrath of God. For that is what the tribulation is! God's wrath on people hu chose not to believe the claims of Jesus the messiah. For we, the church, weren't appointed on to wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
By aligning with Christ, we will not have to experience God's wrath in any form. God will be unfair to Christ, the whole point of calvary will be defeated if God still has to punish us
I hope we all grow to maturity on this matter.
God bless you.

No bible verse to support your write-ups again?

oloriLFC:
please leave them alone and let them argue. Tribulation is coming immediately after rapture of the saints and the suffering as the bible puts it is something that has never been witnessed before. That is when the anti-christ will unleash mayhem on the world. Those who accepts the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy and sell, enjoy health facilities etc but those who do not accept will be found and killed in all manner of ways. By so doing, they have redeemed themselves with their blood cos grace no longer works then. They will then make heaven. Those with the mark of the beast are already doomed for hell. There is also the Millennium reign of Christ where the devil will be thrown in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

No sir! You misconstrued Revelations 3:10-11. There has never been anytime God takes His children out of tribulations, He only protects them or insulates them against the tribulation or trial. Refer to the Israelites in Egypt, God never took them out while they were suffering, all He did was to make sure they thrived by reproducing more. Also when the ten plagues held sway, they were still in Egypt but the Glory of God insulated them while still in Egypt. Refer also to Shedrach, Meshach and Abednego in the fire, Daniel in the lion's den and many more examples littered across scripture. God does not operate that way by airlifting elects or saints away from tribulation, He only gives grace to ensure. (1 Corinthians 10:13). The notion of a pre-tribulation rapture only has the effect of raising weak and complacent Christians who have been taught about an easy Christian life devoid of tribulation, so when the great tribulation comes, they skedaddle. Jesus Christ Himself said in Mark 10:29-30 that, " And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake,, and the gospel's, But, he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. (KJV). Open your eyes!quote author=linearity post=73084586]

My Dear Friend,

I did not say that, the Second Coming of Christ is two events. You can go back and carefully read my prior post. What I stated is that, the Rapture is a distinct and separate even from the Second Coming of Christ, with each taking place on either side of the timeline of the Great tribulation.

And these two events have strong scriptural backing from Zechariah, Isaiah the prophet to Revelation, you just have to be deliberate when you read them to pick up the differences...

The passage you cited above in Mathew talks about the Second Coming of Christ, it said the Lord will be coming and all tribe shall see him and mourn, and his angels shall go to all ends of the earth to gather his elects. Zechariah 14:4 said his feet shall touch Mount Olive during this time, and it is clear that, the gathering refer to in Mathew is towards Mount Olive, where the feet of Christ will touch upon. And it is logical to reason that, it was the second coming and Zechariah's professes that, was in the mind of the disciples, when they came to ask him to tell them the signs of the end of time, because Jesus was on mount Olive, when the disciple approached him with this question and he explained it them, right there on mount Olive. Revelation chapters 6-19 also talk about the second coming of Christ.

However, the passage you quoted in Thessalonian talks about the Rapture, you see how it stated that, the dead saints shall rise, no dead saint shall rise during the second coming, if you read Revelation, question was asked about the dead saints who died during the tribulation and the response is, that will wait...Also see that, Thessalonian say, the Lord shall be in the Air, he did not descend into mount Olive and the saints will be caught up to meet him in the Air and see how Thessalonian did not mention any war, no darkening of moon, sun, no mourning, no crying, etc as indicated in Mathew.

There are more differences with scripture references:
At the Rapture, believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air (1 Thess 4:17), but at the Second Coming, believers will return with the Lord to the earth (Rev 19:14).

The Rapture is imminent, it could take place any moment , instant and no man, only God in heaven knows when it will happen (1 Cor 15:50-54, Math 24:44, Tit 2:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18); However, the Second Coming will not occur until other end-time events have happened and it will occur after the tribulation has lasted seven (7) years(Rev 1:7, Matt 24:29-30).

Rev 3:10-11; says Christ shall protect believers from the tribulation that shall come upon all the world and He will do this through the Rapture by taking them out of the scene.

The Rapture is a time of reward and blessings to believers, while the second coming is a time of judgement and for the anti-christ and unbelievers who joined him. Jesus and the saints will not be involved in any conflict, no war, etc during the rapture...there will be war during the second coming.

During the rapture, He will come like a thief in the night, if you read mathew again; all eyes will see him, the moon, sun, etc will be darken...that is not exactly like a thief...so that is a separate event than the rapture being described in mathew verses you cited.

To come to my position, read every account of the endtime events talking about Christ's coming as documented in Zechariah, Isaiah, Cor. Thess. & Revelation and study them side-by-side, you will conclude that, all these passages are not talking about one return event. You can even draw up a triage table of the differences and you will conclude that, two distinct events are being described.

[/quote]

[The Holy Spirit will never teach you outside the Word of God (Jesus Christ)!quote]
You seem to have this mindset that the bible must state everything explicitly before its existence or genuineness can be proven. This is a carnal mindset and it gives no room for an effective reception of the holy spirit's teachings.[/quote]

No bible verses?

brodalokie:


The rapture is a secret coming only for the gentile church also reffered to as the bridal church. While the second coming is for the Jewish church who may be reffered to as His brethren. This second coming will be preceeded by Moses and Elijah (the two Olive tree). There are lots of signs to watch out for...

This is capital madness. Plain ignorance. You're deluded but you got no one to tell you..

Meesquared000:
This is capital madness. Plain ignorance. You're deluded but you got no one to tell you..

Why??

Isn't it what the Bible said?

The word RAPTURE can't be found anywhere in the Bible yet Christendom Churches keep mimicking it despite inconsistencies, contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines.
Jesus will come with a trumpet and the dead in Christ (born again Christians) will resurrect as spirit creatures {1Thessalonians 4:16} the remaining born again Christians who are still living will be allowed to complete their earthly mission so each will be transformed immediately after death! 2Corinthians 3:18
So it's only those sleeping in death like Jesus' Apostles and several chosen ones among the disciples who are all dead that will rise the same time. Jesus' disciples understood this perfectly that's why they asked him to tell them when will all these things happen and what will be the sign since nobody can know on earth when these things start happening! Matthew 24:3
Jesus revealed to them that strange events and evil things will be happening on earth! Matthew 24:4-31
Now why must all these evil things happen when the dead in Christ leaves the earth?
Well it's because Jesus promised that he's going to prepare a place for them then coming back to take them home {John 14:1-4} Jesus can't construct any new place because heaven has been perfectly arranged from inception unlike earth that's gradually improving in standard of living. He is going to oust (cast) Satan and all the demons from where this ones are living {Revelations 12:7-8} renovate or tidy up these places before coming to call his friends who are now going to live in heaven as angels {Luke 20:34-36} so these loosers spirits will later come to the earth with great fury knowing fully well that since God has replaced them the next thing is their destruction! Revelations 12:12

That's why all these things are happening for the past 100 years, Jesus returned in 1914, restructured his group and commissioned them to start what he asked them to do in the first century {Matthew 28:19-20} that Satan confused for more than 1700 years. So it was five years after Jesus has reorganized his group known today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that they kicked off with the house to house and door to door preaching and teaching program throughout the earth starting from 1919 until Covid19 stopped this campaign in 2019!

So what most Churchgoers are expecting as RAPTURE has taken place since 1914 and ever since then all what Jesus foretold @ Matthew 24 continue to unfold one after another till now.
If you want to know more about things that has been happening but you can't understand or you've not heard. Go now and find Jesus' true followers (JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES) this is not the time to harbour resentment or hatred towards them. We all knew that there is no other group on this planet among whom LOVE, JOY and PEACE reign apart from this group! Micah 4:1-3

God bless you and may you have PEACE!