The Bible does not forbid premarital sex. There is no passage of the Bible that references premarital sex as a sin against God. The association between sin and premarital sex is a new Christian idea. The only possible reference to premarital sex being a sin in the Bible is in the New Testament. This premise although, is generally dismissed by theologians because the Greek word pornei, or sexual immorality is commonly incorrectly translated into the English word fornication.

In Biblical times women were the owned property of a man. Men ruled over women and their children. Women had very few, if any, rights, and men often bought women from their families or at an auction, usually at age twelve and a half. The fathers owned the women (daughters, wives, concubines, handmaidens, servants etc.) and if you wanted to have intercourse with one of his properties, then you had to ask his permission.

If a father sold a daughter, he would get more money for her if she was a virgin. Non-virgins were less expensive to buy. If a man purchased a daughter at a virgin price, and she was not, or she did not bleed during intercourse, then he could return her to her father and get his money back.

Most marriages were arranged for financial reasons. Many couples never even met until the day of the marriage. On the day of marriage the proposed husband would give a dowry, or monetary compensation, to the father of a bride. The price of the dowry was different from woman to woman, was determined by the father, and was based on the woman's beauty, ability to bear children, strength, household skills, and status as a virgin.

In the Old Testament, many verses that people site for being against premarital sex are actual verses against stealing another man's property.
In Exodus 22:16 - 17, "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay the bride-price for her, and she will be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins." According to this, the only reason any wrong was done is because the father of the woman lost money when the man and the woman consented to having premarital sex without her father's knowledge. This passage showed that through premarital sex, the man is actually stealing from the woman's father, the difference in value between her as a virgin and her as a nonvirgin. It does not show that premarital sex is wrong.

In Deuteronomy 22:28 - 29 it says, "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days." This shows that forced premarital sex, or rape is also stealing, but unlike the book of exodus, this trespass provides a punishment, as the male rapist not only stole from the woman herself but from the woman's father as well.

Another example of premarital sex in the Old Testament is given in Deuteronomy 21:10. This is a case in which a man takes a woman captive and then if he wants to make her his wife he must follow the conditions it sets forth, and then have intercourse with her. Then, if she is found to be desirable he has the option of marrying her or sending her away. This passage not only possibly condones premarital sex, but maybe even divorce as well.

Even the 10 Commandments don't forbid premarital sex. Most Christians would classify premarital sex under the seventh commandment, "Thou shall not commit adultery," but adultery is defined as: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse. If neither persons are married, it cannot be adultery.
If the man performing the premarital sex was married and the woman was not, in biblical times this did not matter. The reason for this was that in biblical times adultery was defined as a situation in which there was the danger of a married woman being impregnated by another man. This is also why sex with a prostitute is/was not adultery, even if the man is married. In the Hebrew understanding of the Adultery Commandment of Moses, Adultery, as understood by what Moses said, was only wrong for married women, never a married man.
Even Solomon, a great prophet of the figure of the Bible who was said to be favored by God had seven hundred princesses and three hundred concubines. The Bible shows that polygamy, rape, incest, and orgies are not only accepted, but was often rewarded, by God and was common practice of "great men of the Bible," none of whom wherever spoken out against in the Bible.

Christ's teachings at the Sermon on the Mount were that the only law is the law of love. He showed this by reversing four of the Old Testament laws which conflicted with loving people. Therefore, anything that was unkind, not by mutual consent, etc. would be immoral for a Christian, but obviously not loving sexuality regardless of marital status or natural sexual orientation.

The New Testament says nothing about premarital sex. Some versions though do mistranslate the Greek word pornei, which means sexual immorality, into the English word fornication, which means sexual intercourse with someone who one is not married to.
Pornei, meaning sexual immorality, included such things as having sex with a woman during menstruations, adultery, temple prostitution, and pederasty.
Adultery although, is not the same sin we know today, in which it is common for a man and a woman to be considered equal. The Hebrew understanding of adultery was that it was wrong for a married woman to have sex with another man since that violated her husbands property rights to his wife. It was not wrong for a man because a woman had no such property rights. A married man could have as many wives as he could afford as long as he did not marry another man's property.

Temple prostitution was actually the practice of the prostitutes in the Temples of Corinth selling their services as a part of the worship of a pagan fertility goddess, which was what Paul was warning against when he spoke of uniting the members of Christ with a prostitute in I Corinthians 6:12-17. This passage was not even specifically about prostitution, which is still legal and very popular in modern day Israel, but prostitution used as a form of pagan worship. He was speaking out against idolatry, not prostitution.

Pederasty was one of the worst of all sexual sins and it took on many forms. The practice of pederasty falls into three different categories. The first form is that of a sexual relationship between an older man and a young boy. Second is the practice of having a sexual relationship with slave prostitutes. Third is that of the effeminate male, commonly called a "call boy" or Gigolo. Other such practices included two heterosexual males degrading one another by anal intercourse after capturing them in a battle. Another practice was heterosexuals' using anal intercourse to drive away other heterosexual strangers they didn't like. An example of this would be the story of Sodom and Gomorrah from Genesis 19:1-5. "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom, both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
This story had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. Sexual orientation is only a modern concept and was not known in biblical times. This was a story of hospitality, as displayed by Lot. The men had surrounded the house for the sole purpose of gang raping the unwanted travelers, and Lot, the owner of the house, even offered his virgin daughters to calm the mob and save his guests. This not only shows that pederasty was accepted in biblical times, but it also proves that women were thought of as property and little more.

In every case of premarital sex in the Bible there is no punishment for the sexual act. The only penalty is the man had to pay compensation to the father for the woman's change in market value.
Today however, because most women are of a comparable status to men in most parts of the Christian world, there is no market value for daughters in Christian cultures. Given this, it stands to reason that the only penalty for having premarital sex is now gone, and it would be entirely acceptable for everyone to have consensual premarital sex. In fact, a document authorized by the House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church sated that the passages in the Biblical book SONG OF SONGS are "in praise of sexual love, celebrating youthful passion, with no reference to marriage... It affirms that sexual love is in itself good and beneficial."
Today many women have the same social and political freedoms that men have always had. But to say that responsible premarital sex, or fornication is somehow wrong, shows little more than ignorance to biblical teachings. Many of the sexually repressive teachings that developed in the middle ages are still being followed today. These teachings are based on oppressive Christian traditions that have no biblical basis other than ignorance.

Source: http://www.dtl.org/ethics/article/pre-marital/always-sin.htm

The earlier you stop deceiving yourself the better for you.

My dear, there are 1001 bible verses that talked about fornication so I dont get your argument unless you are telling me that fornication has a different meaning from pre martial sex.

Elantracey: The earlier you stop deceiving yourself the better for you.

Exactly!

This is heresy!

Must you all follow your so called fathers in the lord taught you. Can't you take the time to read before jumping into conclusion.

Is Pre-marital sex the same as fornication? You are dead wrong. Give me the Bible verses that says pre-marital sex is sin and i will open your understanding. However, read through the thread before commenting.

Don't get it twisted. Sex is a beautiful thing when it is between two lovers. Potential couples.

You can only brand this heresy if you admit the Bible to be a Sham.......

newken: Must you all follow your so called fathers in the lord taught you. Can't you take the time to read before jumping into conclusion.

Is Pre-marital sex the same as fornication? You are dead wrong. Give me the Bible verses that says pre-marital sex is sin and i will open your understanding. However, read through the thread before commenting.

Don't get it twisted. Sex is a beautiful thing when it is between two lovers. Potential couples.

You can only brand this heresy if you admit the Bible to be a Sham.......

What is premarital sex? It is simply sex before marriage.

What is fornication? Fornication is generally consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other.

Hence, the two involves sexual relationship between people who are UNMARRIED and is considered immoral!

[b]Hebrews 13:4 ESV :Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 ESV :For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 ESV :Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 ESV: To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV: But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV: Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God


[/b]

There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer: “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.

Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

Shalom!

@OP,
This your topic is dead on arrival. You defined it yourself - 'PRE' marital sex is not same as MARITAL sex. As long as a woman is not (YET) your wife or a man is not (YET) your husband it is against the will of God.

A man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to HIS WIFE...

Do not let the letter kill you. What is the Spirit of the message. Fornication is any non marital sex. Marriage involves GIVING AWAY THE WOMAN to the man by the Father primarily.

A man's way appears right in his own eyes and it leads to destruction.

newken: Must you all follow your so called fathers in the lord taught you. Can't you take the time to read before jumping into conclusion.

Is Pre-marital sex the same as fornication? You are dead wrong. Give me the Bible verses that says pre-marital sex is sin and i will open your understanding. However, read through the thread before commenting.

Don't get it twisted. Sex is a beautiful thing when it is between two lovers. Potential couples.

You can only brand this heresy if you admit the Bible to be a Sham.......

I think you need to know the definition of the two words just in case you have forgotten ;
Fornication : Voluntary sexual inter.cause between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.


Pre marital sex : Sexual activity practiced by persons who are unmarried.

I ask you again what's the difference between those two words? Is not fair to lie to people especially when you do it with the bible. If you feel pre martial sex is ok for you pls dont drag others to do it with you, just go ahead with it. You don't have to paint the picture black just to be at peace with your conscience. God's words can never be changed or mocked, His words are yea and amen! I am not saying I'm a Saint or something but let's all tell ourselves the truth......pre martial sex is a sin before God there's nothing we can do about it.

Thank You Mr Sanchez for the lecture. I appreciate your passion and efforts.

In my post, there were references to the old testament that actually shows that the only reason why Pre-marital sex is considered sin is because the value of a defiled lady reduces, hence the father cannot get full price due to him for a Virgin. The defiler is therefore mandated to pay his full dowry and automatically the girl becomes his property. It explains stealing. not something immoral. i don't want to go too deep into the old testament.

Now back to your post. You have cited verses from the new testament and all verses point to one single person. Apostle Paul. I don't doubt his apostleship but he himself made it known to all that all his messages are personal. Not a special revelation or teaching from God which he affirmed himself.

However, either from God or Not, we often mis-interprete the meaning of fornication. The only possible reference to premarital sex being a sin in the Bible is in the New Testament. This premise although, is generally dismissed by theologians because the Greek word pornei, or intimate immorality is commonly incorrectly translated into the English word fornication.

In my own definition, Sex before marriage is Pre-marital sex, fornication is quite another thing. Remember in Jesus un-doubtable words that Divorce is illegal except it be for fornication. If fornication is Pre-marital sex, can the married commit fornication? or does Jesus mean to tell us we can divorce our partners if we discover that they had sex with others in the past before getting married to us?

newken: The Bible does not forbid premarital sex. There is no passage of the Bible that references premarital sex as a sin against God. The association between sin and premarital sex is a new Christian idea. The only possible reference to premarital sex being a sin in the Bible is in the New Testament. This premise although, is generally dismissed by theologians because the Greek word pornei, or sexual immorality is commonly incorrectly translated into the English word fornication.

Deuteronomy 22:17,20-21
16 "The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her;
17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him,
20"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the HARLOT in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you

The bolded is proof enough to show a man can sleep with a virgin he married and later lie that she wasn't one and proof is shown to the elders in her favour who will punish him. Woe betide the bride who was claiming afterall we 'want to marrry' and sleeps with her fiancee and he turns against her later. Note 'FATHER's HOUSE and GAVE HER TO THIS MAN FOR A WIFE'.

I Corinthians 7:36
But if a man thinks that he's treating his fiancee improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin

Above are two scriptures both old and new that makes your OP fall like a pack of lies. That's what happens with the truth. Do you want Jesus words as well? May the Lord help you.

Illiteracy is not stupidity, but ignorance, this time your illiteracy and ignorance is stupid. Then one day because of you ill sense, you will contest for political post and lead people astray. I don't know where you are from but if you are a Nigerian am ashamed.

@ ammylove...
Marriage is not the act of the Father giving a daughter away. It is by consummation. When you sleep with a woman, you become one spiritually regardless of the status of you both. Regardless of if the father gives her hand in marriage or not. When you sleep with each other, you are married. and you automatically owe her father the full pride price. You are in debt.

So in actual fact, you have not committed a sin against God if both parties consented to the act. You only put yourself in debt. you are indebted to the father. You have to pay the price.

The Old testament best describes a practical way to go about it.

Nice!! A beautiful article, though with some understandable errors, but mostly correct interpretation of s.exual values/attitudes in bible context. Well done OP.

It is true that fornication does not mean pre-marital sex. This inclusion of pre-marital sex is not even a christian definition but one brought in by the catholic church when they began to substitute pagan values for christian doctrine. Celibacy itself has nothing to do with christianity, it is 100 percent pagan. It is from celibacy that they made the extension that pre-marital sex was fornication, and this attitude has carried on in today's mainstream christianity.

Fornication(porneia) simply means "immoral(inappropriate) sex", which include a variety of practices like be.stiality, homose.xuality, adultery, rape, idolatrous prostitution, etc, but no way does it include consensual sex between an unmarried male and an unmarried female.

@ alwaystrue.
Deuteronomy 22:17,20-21 is a classic example of what i have been saying. The Man paid a a full pride price for a Virgin. Non virgins get married dont they? They are worth less than Virgins.

That man either wanted a refund after sleeping with the wife or just wanted to disgrace the man by accusing him of selling a prostitute to him for Virgin Price.

Virgins were worth more. Just like it is today. you don't want to marry a slut claiming virgin. Would you take it lightly with the father if you actually paid a high cost because of her Virginity Status.

21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of[b] folly [/b]in Israel by playing the HARLOT in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

In the instance of the above verse, there was already a contract of marriage while the girl still lived in her fathers house. it is only when a lady has a covenant of marriage that she is condemned for playing the harlot, because this is adultery, which is punishable by death.

As strange as this may seem, God never condemns either men sleeping with whores, or unmarried women who are whores. According to scripture, if a man has sex with an unmarried woman, it was not considered adultery! God sentenced married men to death for adultery, married women to death for adultery, unmarried men to death for adultery, but never does He sentence unmarried women to death for adultery.

It was never a sin for a lady to have sex before marriage. Only The priests family was mandated by God not to go into prostitution. God also frowned at parents forcing daughters into prostitution. infact, God commanded his prophet, Hosea, to take a wife who was a LovePeddler, so he did (Hosea 1:2-3). She was a LovePeddler living inside Israel.

@ MCWALKA. How literate are you? Please rather than throw insults..... kindly dissect the bible and let us know how knowledgeable you are. Are you a religious fanatic?

Bring on reasonable arguments please. or shut your mouth up

Lemme shock yall with this truth,The bible itself wasn't divinely written,it was written as a result of past history just for you to conform with good morals,I wonder why Christian like me would still hate on me for the reason I live next door to him or why the jews hate on christians,Christians hates on the muslims.speaking about fornication my answer is yolo cus it all boils down to the fact that you appreciating humanity but you gotta be careful so it don't take its toll on you(diseases)

newken: @ alwaystrue.
Deuteronomy 22:17,20-21 is a classic example of what i have been saying. The Man paid a a full pride price for a Virgin. Non virgins get married dont they? They are worth less than Virgins.

That man either wanted a refund after sleeping with the wife or just wanted to disgrace the man by accusing him of selling a prostitute to him for Virgin Price.

Virgins were worth more. Just like it is today. you don't want to marry a slut claiming virgin. Would you take it lightly with the father if you actually paid a high cost because of her Virginity Status.

Wow, so he wanted to disgrace the man who 'sold the prostitute' to him not the supposed 'prostitute'? So you can actually call a non-virgin a prostitute then. Yet this was what the bible said:

Deuteronomy 2:13-14a
13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her
14a and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying

And the best way 'not to take it lightly' with the father who 'sold' the supposed 'damaged goods' was to stone the girl to death. Was your interpretation up there based on the flesh or the Spirit please? I would be careful to answer that.

newken:
21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of[b] folly [/b]in Israel by playing the HARLOT in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

In the instance of the above verse there was already a contract of marriage while the girl still lived in her fathers house. it is only when a lady has a covenant of marriage that she is condemned for playing the harlot, because this is adultery, which is punishable by death.

@newken, really?!

Deuteronomy 22:15-16
15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.
16 Her father will say to the elders,
Did you miss this part? Did it occur to you that playing the harlot in the fathers house meant that she was defiled while she was staying with the father (as unwedded) and not with the husband? And that was why the husband said he did not MEET HIS WIFE A VIRGIN ON THE WEDDING NIGHT?! Is that not what all this is about...The man TOOK A WIFE... Educate me on contract of marriage and convenant of marriage please.

Does bringing the WIFE to the doorway of her fathers house mean either of the below to you:

- She was part of the FAMILY/VILLAGE MEETING that was ongoing and after the verdict she was killed at the doorway of her father's house since she was 'sold' (in your words) from his house anyway.

- She was sent back to her father's house after the 'discovery' which led to the family/village meeting in the first place so she was only brought out and stoned.

newken:
As strange as this may seem, God never condemns either men sleeping with whores, or unmarried women who are whores. According to scripture, if a man has sex with an unmarried woman, it was not considered adultery! God sentenced married men to death for adultery, married women to death for adultery, unmarried men to death for adultery, but never does He sentence unmarried women to death for adultery.

Yet we have

Deuteronomy 23:17
There shall be no wh.ore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel

1 Corinthians 6:9
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

It is obvious you have decided to close your eyes to the scriptures that show this. And its is strange you missed that whoremongers will not inherit the kingdom of God. You just admitted a girl who was not found a virgin and was wedded to a man was seen as being 'SOLD A PROSTITUTE'...with your very own words.

newken:
It was never a sin for a lady to have sex before marriage. Only The priests family was mandated by God not to go into prostitution. God also frowned at parents forcing daughters into prostitution. infact, God commanded his prophet, Hosea, to take a wife who was a LovePeddler, so he did (Hosea 1:2-3). She was a LovePeddler living inside Israel.

Hear yourself and what did Hosea 1 say:

Hosea 1:2
When the Lord first began speaking to Israel through Hosea, he said to him, “Go and marry a prostitute, so that some of her children will be conceived in prostitution. THIS WILL ILLUSTRATE HOW ISRAEL HAS ACTED LIKE A PROSTITUTE BY TURNING AGAINST THE LORD and worshiping other gods.”

Note the FULL CONTEXT of the instruction to Hosea and the reason for it and please come back and say you were joking when you quoted the above.

Thanks for your response. Brace yourself for my detailed response.

Fact 1. Hosea married a LovePeddler. Obeying the commandment of God and they had children. You cant dispute that.
Hosea 1:2 When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, “Go, marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her, for like an adulterous wife this land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the Lord.” 3 So he married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.


fact 2. There is no punishment for an umarried virgin that was defiled. I repeat it again that. There is no crime is a lady having sex before marriage. you can see that in Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deuteronomy 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give to the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

So to answer you. The lady referred to in that verse was betrothed. (that is what i referred to as marriage contract). She was engaged while still living in her fathers house. And after Marriage proper, that is finally moving to his husbands house, they consummated the marriage and that led to the man claiming not to meet her a Virgin. cos he paid the full price of a Virgin.

I am not referring to the mans daughter as prostitute. i am just saying unmarried ladies prostitution in Israel is not punishable.

The stoning to death of people who played the harlot is harsh in the first place. So both the one who played the harlot and the father who sold damaged good received the harsh punishment. It is fraudulent to receive Virgin price for already defiled girl.

Does scripture say it is a sin to have sex with an unmarried woman? If a sexual relationship requires the penalty of blood, then it is a sin against the Lord. If a sexual relationship requires no penalty of blood, then it is not a sin against the Lord. For example, if one sleeps with one's own wife, there is no need for a blood sacrifice of either man or animal. Why? Because it is not a sin to do so. Now, let us see what God's penalty was for having sex between men and women.

If a married man was convicted of adultery, both he and the married woman that lay with him were to be executed (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).
If a married woman was convicted of adultery, both she and the man that lay with her were to be executed (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).
If a betrothed virgin was convicted of adultery, both she and the man that lay with her were to be executed (Deuteronomy 22:23-24).
If a man forces a betrothed woman to have sex with him, the man was executed, but the woman was blameless (Deuteronomy 22:25-27).

Obviously, the above sexual acts are considered sins, because it required the shedding of man's blood to atone for those sins. How cruel it would be of God if He did not make clear that these sexual acts are a sin, and that blood was required to cleanse this sin!

Remember, scripture is clear that only married women could be guilty of adultery, not unmarried women (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22). Even betrothed (engaged) women could be guilty of adultery, because she was a man's “wife” once they became betrothed, which is the reason why scripture says if a man rapes a betrothed (married) woman, then he was to be executed (Deuteronomy 22:25-27). It is a sin to do this to a married woman. Why is it a sin? Because the man committed adultery (but the woman would be held guiltless).

Deuteronomy 22:25, "But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her…"

However, there is nothing in scripture that says a man was to be executed for raping an unmarried woman! Deuteronomy 22:25-27 does not say, “But if a man find a damsel in the field,” which would refer to any and all women. No, it explicitly limits it to only women who were a wife. Does this mean there were no consequences to raping a woman just because she was not married? Of course not. For a rape to occur, there must be a “stealing” of her, or, a kidnapping. And under God's Law, stealing and kidnapping were punishable by the shedding of blood (Exodus 21:16, Deuteronomy 24:7, 1 Timothy 1:10, Revelation 18:13). However, if a man was punished for raping an unmarried woman, it was not for the crime of adultery (which is a sexual act), but for a different crime.

But let us now examine the consequences of an unmarried man and an unmarried virgin that have sex willfully with each other. What is the penalty? Is there the shedding of blood of man, as in the case of adultery? No. Well, is there the shedding of blood of an animal, as in the case of theft? No. Well, just what kind of penalty was there for having sex with an unmarried woman? Well, there is no penalty! As a matter of fact, they were commanded, by God himself, to marry each other (Exodus 22:16-17, Deuteronomy 22:28)! To marry! And to marry a virgin required a payment of fifty shekels of silver to her father as well. There was no shedding of blood required! Why not? Could it be that God did not consider it a sin for an unmarried man and an unmarried woman to have sex together? After all, all sins always required the shedding of blood. Otherwise, it is not a sin in God's eyes.

But, you may ask, “What is the penalty if that man and woman do not get married, like God commands?” Well, the father could utterly refuse to give his daughter away to a man, and then that couple would not have to get married. But the man still had to pay the father “money according to the dowry of virgins” (Exodus 22:16-17), which was “fifty shekels of silver,” (Deuteronomy 22:28), the same price as if he did marry her, and then the man and woman did not have to get married! They were “off the hook”! That's all! But keep in mind, this payment to the father is not a penalty!

Scripture explicitly says why this dowry price was paid to the father, so there is no need for conjecture. It was not to be paid because of a penalty, but "...because he hath humbled her" (Deuteronomy 22:29). Any man who humbles a virgin, whether it be a man who marries her after going through the betrothal period, a man who marries her without going through betrothal, a man who marries her because he had sex with her first, or even a man who had sex with a virgin without marrying her, all men pay this dowry price to the father for the same reason; “Because he hath humbled her.” It is not a penalty. (Note: one shekel of silver was equivalent to 4 days wages. Therefore, 50 shekels of silver would be equivalent to 200 days wages).

How about the woman in this case? Was there any penalty for her willingly sleeping with a man before marriage? Well, there was no penalty at all! There was no shedding of blood on either her part or on the part of the man who slept with her. In other words, to have sex with an unmarried woman is not considered a sin against God! The land was not considered unclean after this act. If one considers this act a sin against God, then we have to change the established scriptural truth that all sins require the shedding of blood. We have to change God's Truth to fit our pre-conceived ideas. But, we all know it is wrong to do that. It is much easier to accept scripture for what it says, rather than try to make it say something it does not say. And, unlike rape, one cannot claim this act is “theft,” because if somebody willfully gives something to another, it is not theft to take what another willfully offers.

You may ask, “Well, what happens if the man who sleeps with the woman refuses to marry her?” Well, there is no penalty mentioned! No shedding of blood. As a matter of fact, there is another law of God that also commands a man and woman to marry. We can learn what happens in this case by going to that passage.

In Deuteronomy 25:5-10, God's Law states that if a woman's husband dies, and has no child, then the husband's brother must marry her and become her husband. This is Law! Now, what is the penalty if this man disobeys God and refuses to marry her? Is this a sin? Does his blood have to be shed? Does the blood of an animal have to be shed for this defiance? Well, let's see. Verses 9 and 10 state the penalty that must be inflicted on this man. The woman, in the presence of the elders, is to “loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face” (verse 9)! And his name shall be called, “The house of him that hath his shoe loosed” (verse 10). That's it! The act of spitting, whether in or before the face, marked the strong contempt the woman felt for the man who had slighted her. And it appears that the man was disgraced in Israel. However, there was no shedding of blood involved, because there is no sin involved in refusing to marry a woman that God commanded to marry. Remember, God does not “force” people to marry against their will.

You may ask, “Well, what happens if the man refuses to pay the father the dowry price?” Well, there is no penalty imposed on the man in this passage for refusing to pay the father this price. However, one can accuse him of theft in this case, since he owed the father a debt and did not pay it, and he would be penalized according to the theft of money. However, if he was a man after God, he would marry her, and at the very least, pay the dowry price to her father (this is why we should not be yoked with unbelievers).

Notice, too, that only an unmarried virgin was commanded to marry, not an unmarried woman who was not a virgin. This dowry price only applied to unmarried women who were virgins, not to unmarried women who were not virgins. That is why it is called, in scripture, “dowry of virgins” (Exodus 22:17). Once a woman is no longer a virgin, there are no more payments to be made to the father. There is even a maxim of law which states, “The law favors dower; it is the reward of chastity.” In addition, this helps prevent the father from making a harlot out of his daughter, since he cannot get any more money from another man if he sleeps with her.

But either way, there is no penalty mentioned in scripture for having sex with an unmarried woman, whether she was a virgin or a non-virgin. That is, unless you consider marriage a penalty to atone for ones sins?! But scripture says only the shedding of blood can atone for sins, not marriage. Marriage is not a penalty!

^^^^^^

Sadly you wrote so much up there yet got lost in the whole plot:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her and they are found
29 Then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has VIOLATED her; he may not divorce her all his days Same as Exodus 22:16-17

The person DID WRONG...pure robbery. It is the hardness of their heart that made such penalty just like they killed animals for penalty of their sins or had to refund back what was stolen. IT WAS A SIN. The man VIOLATED the girl!!!!!!! The only way to make her 'NOT A PROSTITUTE' was to marry her in those days. This was exactly what happened here:

Genesis 34:31
And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?
I will leave you to read the whole story and see how it is seen in Israel those days to sleep with a woman when she wasn't married to the person.

Oh and by the way, all the scriptures above were actually talking about RA.PE. Concensual se.x between two unmarried couples is same as wh.oredome and harlotry. Same as sleeping with someone's future husband or wife.

Leviticus 21:14
A widow, or a divorced woman, or defiled, or a harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people as wife
A woman as defined there was either a widow, divorced, defiled/rap.ed, a harlot, a virgin or married.
If this does not explain anything to you then I wonder what will


LOVE is the FULFILMENT OF THE LAW....When you love someone you don't VIOLATE THEM. LETTER OF THE LAW vs SPIRIT OF THE LAW. It was due to the hardness of their hearts that they are given such penalties. It is still stated there....the man has to make her his wife meaning he has extra marital relations. I noted you smartly avoided I Corinthians 7:36 I quoted but Jesus has said it all.

People go scot free today without such stiff penalities but does it make it less a sin.

Jesus the Word Himself said:

Matthew 5:28
But I can guarantee that whoever looks with lust at a woman has already committed adultery in his heart

You do not lust after what you have in this case. It is after what is not thiers that makes a man lust.

I wish you well in your bible study. Your posts falls on all points and cannot stand beside the word of God. So long.

the bible is clear in delivering messages.

The one that violates must pay the dowry to the father because he has humbled the child. from virginity status to non-virgin thereby making the father lose money and the girl' value. After paying the price, the girl automatically become his wife. he had slept with her(consummation) and paid the price. The penalty is just paying the price. and if he chooses not to take her thereafter, there is no penalty for it. it is not a sin!

As for Genesis 34:31 bring out your argument from there.

All the scripture above didn't just talk about rape. it talked mainly on consensual sex between married, unmarried, betrothed and Rape.

As for. Leviticus 21:14, For priests' family, it is a different ball game with God. they have special conditions from other tribes. So that is not applicable. After-all is it sinful for someone to marry a widow?

LOVE is the FULFILMENT OF THE LAW. Yes. and you must know that Sex is a big expression of love even though it is being abused today. Sex is still a good thing from God. To Rape is to violate. Consensual sex between unmarried partners is okay.

I Corinthians 7:36.But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

The above verse affirms my stance. If you feel aroused to your partner. "let him do what he will" What is the will of him that is randy? to Have sex with her. do it and then Marry her. it is not a sin

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. this verse is tantamount to the commandment: thou shall not covet. A married man or woman must not covet another mans wife by lusting after her. Even the unmarried must not covet the wife or husband of the married. But, Can an unmarried man or woman commit adultery? No. so the above verse is just for married people. The unmarried can fantasize and day dream about an unmarried lady as long as he pleases. there is no sin in so doing.


Now, it may be against God's Will to be an unmarried harlot/LovePeddler, yes, but just because an act is against God's Will, it does not mean that act is a sin.

Though adultery was reputed a very flagrant crime, public prostitution was not; for men whose characters were good had connections with them.

One:
The godly man Judah was not rebuked or punished for having sex with someone he thought was a LovePeddler, Tamar (Genesis 38:14-26). And neither was Tamar punished for sleeping with him.

[By the way, Judah was the founder of the tribe of Judah, thus of the line of David and Christ Jesus (Matthew 1:3-16). Judah is symbolizes as a lion (Genesis 49:9), which is why Christ is called the “lion of the tribe of Judah” (Revelation 5:5).]


Two:
Two of God's chosen people were sent to spy out the land in Jericho. They went into a harlot's house and lodged there (Joshua 2:1). This harlot is called Rahab, and she is commended and praised in Hebrews 11:31 and James 2:25. Many people have called her a “hostess” or a “tavern keeper, but scriptural usage (Leviticus 21:7-14, Deuteronomy 23:18, Judges 11:1, 1 Kings 3:16), the authority of the Septuagint, followed by the apostles, prove that a “harlot” is the correct term to use here.

[By the way, Rahab later married Salmon, through whom was born Boaz, Ruth's husband (Ruth 4:21), so that she thus became an ancestress of David (1 Chronicles 2:11-12), and hence of Christ himself (Matthew 1:5,6,17). Thus, a Canaanite harlot became part of the lineage from whom the Messiah descended.

Three:
Samson, while he had the Spirit of the Lord in him (Judges 15:14), slept with a harlot (Judges 16:1), while he had God's Holy Spirit in him! He is not rebuked or punished for this act, and neither is she.

Some claim that Samson did not sleep with a harlot, but saw an inn-keeper, or one who keeps a house for the entertainment of travellers, and he simply slept there. But there is no scriptural basis for this interpretation. Firstly, the word "harlot" here is the same Hebrew word #02181 zanah used to describe whores throughout scripture. Secondly, the Septuagint confirms that "harlot" is the correct word in this verse. And thirdly, Samson could not have simply slept at an inn until morning, because scripture shows that he only stayed at this place until midnight (Judges 16:3).

Many question whether or not Samson was a godly man, but the apostle has determined he was in Hebrews 11:32.

In all three examples above, the harlot was a woman living outside Israel.

Four:
God commanded his prophet, Hosea, to take a wife who was a LovePeddler, so he did (Hosea 1:2-3). She was a LovePeddler living inside Israel.

My posts tell the same as the bible. lets just accept what his words say.

Conclusion.

Pre-marital sex is not a sin. We should accept this fact and teach our young ones the dangers of sex and why they need to abstain, we should teach them how to protect themselves from sexually transmitted diseases rather than twist the bible to threaten them.

Final Thoughts

Even though it may not be a sin to have sex, in some cases, before marriage, nonetheless, both a godly woman and a godly man should keep themselves pure, and remain a virgin, until married. A virgin is holy in God's eyes (1 Corinthians 7:34), and it is pleasing to God when a women and man remain a virgin until married.

I'm not a Christian but I think the holy spirit pretty much abrogated the idea of premarital sex being a sin when it slept with Mary that obviously wasn't married to it. I mean god had premarital sex, what else does one need as reason to see that god endorses it.

Ultimus: I'm not a Christian but I think the holy spirit pretty much abrogated the idea of premarital sex being a sin when it slept with Mary that obviously wasn't married to it. I mean god had premarital sex, what else does one need as reason to see that god endorses it.

The above is just clown talk, how on earth is the holy spirit a person? Have instruments for carrying sexual relations with a woman? You don't know what a spirit is? Neither did you read the bible scripture by yourself about how Jesus was conceived but you based your opinions on heresay. Jesus was not a result of CONCEPTION nor SEXUAL ACT.

@Newken, Please stop your twisted reasoning about the bible. Read Proverb 16: 25 and Romans 1:32. If you feel like having premarital sex do so out of your given free will and not using God's word the bible to support yourself.

Throughout the bible God's people are urged to be PURE or CHASTE. CHASTE means "not having sex OUTSIDE MARRIAGE or AT ALL" (Oxford dictionary)

1 Thess 4:3 " For this is the will of God, your sanctification: THAT YOU ASTAIN FROM UNCHASTITY".

Greek Pornei- is translated as Fornication or Sexual immorality in English. If you are against its translation to "Fornication" , well, What then do you understand "Sexual immorality" to mean? If premarital sex is approved which kind of sex is immoral? (Note- thousands of Isrealite lost their life because of Sexual immorality)

1 cor 7:1,2 "...it is well for a man NOT to TOUCH A WOMAN. But because of the temptation to immorality each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband " .
Q: What kind of touch was paul referring to? A: Sex.
Q: Why did Paul urge others not to "touch" women if premarital sex is allowed? A: because premarital sex isn't allowed.
Q: Because of temptation of immorality, What did Paul encourage others to do? A: Because christians are not free to participate in premarital sex "immorality", each christian is required to have his wife and husband.
Q: Why have a wife or Husband if christians are free to have premarital sex? A: Because marriage is honourable among christians and premarital sex is not but a sin.

1 cor 7:8,9 " To the UNMARRIED ....I say that it is well for them to remain SINGLE as I do. But if they cannot exercise SELF-CONTROL, they should MARRY. For it is BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BE AFLAME WITH PASSION."

Q: Was Paul a single man who have premarital sex from time to time? A:No. Q: So when he urge ummarried men to be like him what did he mean? A: For them to remain single not "touching" a woman. Q: Why would Single men need "Self control" if premarital sex is approved? A: Because premarital sex is not approved, if a single man did not have self control rather than Sin, he is asked to marry (legal way to have sex). Q: What did Paul mean to be inflamed with passion? A: He means lust/passion leading up to sexual immorality. It is better to be married than to be a single man who can't control himself but his inflamed with lust/passion for sexual immorality.

Africa traditions/ Nigerian customs in the past did not condone premarital sex, how then could the bible approve such? It is unthinkable. The question you should be asking is why did Africa/Nigerian cultures frown upon premarital sex in the first place.

@ Ricoduosennin

Thank you so much for your passion. but i will like to point out that no matter how emotional we get about things of God, we cannot defend whatever seem odd about the Bible.

Proverbs 16:25 - There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. regarding premarital sex, Remember Judah who had premarital sex was not punished? and Jesus being the lion of the tribe of Judah. That verse is weightless in this argument

Romans 1:32- Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
The above verse applies to adulterers no doubt. but not to Pre-marital Sex. read my earlier explanations regarding penalty for sexual sins. There is no death penalty for Re-marital Sex!

Throughout the bible God's people are urged to be PURE or CHASTE. CHASTE means "not having sex OUTSIDE MARRIAGE or AT ALL" (Oxford dictionary)

Whatever your explanation of what being CHASTE means. I accept that it is better not to have sex before marriage, However, having sex before marriage is not a sin against God. there is no punishment for it. There is always a punishment attached to broken laws, but Pre-marital Sex? None

Intimate immorality is somehow ambiguous. However, you can derive the meaning from the word "Immoral". there is always too much of everything. eating too much, excessive farting in crowded a place etc. Intimate immorality can be explained with the experience of Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. where men decided to sleep with Men (Angels on a visit) after Lot offered them his daughters to quench their thirst. Now if Pre-Marital sex is a grave sin, What effrontery... Why would Lot offer his daughters to vile men before the angels of the almighty God that supposedly forbids Pre-Marital sex? The towns men were used to sexual immorality which you are free to classify as Fornication. Not pre-marital sex. Pre-Marital sex and fornication are not the same. Fornication has many forms, so the Anti-Pre-marital sex campaigners were quick to wrongly include pre-Marital sex among Sexual immoralities.

1 cor 7:1-7
1Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

what is sexual immorality? Sodomy and co. Pre-Marital sex is not a sin. this cannot be overemphasized. there is always punishment for sins. But there is no punishment for Premarital sex. therefore, Pre-marital sex is not one of the sex sins.

Q: What kind of touch was paul referring to? Answer: Yes (it is good not to touch but when the unmarried touch, not a sin)
Q: Why did Paul urge others not to "touch" women if premarital sex is allowed? Answer: because it is better not to touch but it is not a sin to touch.
Q: Because of temptation of immorality, What did Paul encourage others to do? Answer: Because some involve themselves in sodomy, he encouraged them to get a wives and husbands.
Q: Why have a wife or Husband if christians are free to have premarital sex? Answer: be fruitful and multiply was a command by God. but if you decide not to marry and bear children, does that make it a sin? so also it is better not to have Premarital sex, but doing it is not a sin.

it is good to have self control in everything you do. eating, playing etc. so also in sexual issues, we need self control. However, read
1 Cor 7:6,7- But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

So the advice of Paul not to have sex before marriage was not a commandment we must follow to the letter. Paul himself affirmed that. it is not a commandment. just an advice. not binding. if God gives you the ability to stay without sex. Good. if not, Not a crime.

Traditions, cultures and the things of God are different. You can't judge Gods standard with man's.

newken: @ Rikoduosennin



Proverbs 16:25 - There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. regarding premarital sex, Remember Judah who had premarital sex was not punished? and Jesus being the lion of the tribe of Judah. That verse is weightless in this argument
.

Judah was a widower (already married) who had sex with a woman he thought to be a prostitute. (Note- Prostitution is one of the olders profession). The law commandment have not been given then you know. Even after the law was made, Samson slept with at least two prostitute, because he was not remanded doesn't mean it is ok. For instance, Tamar is a widow of two husbands, yet she was nearly killed because she was pregnant (via sexual relations outside marriage), why kill her if what she did was not WRONG/SIN according to you.

Read 1 corinthians 6:15-20

newken:
Romans 1:32- Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
The above verse applies to adulterers no doubt. but not to Pre-marital Sex. read my earlier explanations regarding penalty for sexual sins. There is no death penalty for Pre-marital Sex!

All sins lead to death. Whether you like it all not.

It seems to me, you want to do and advocate pre-marital sex.

newken:
Whatever your explanation of what being CHASTE means. I accept that it is better not to have sex before marriage, However, having sex before marriage is not a sin against God. there is no punishment for it. There is always a punishment attached to broken laws, but Pre-marital Sex? None

What is the punishment for Greed? There are laws and there are principles, Mosiac laws were abolish a while back but the principles remain. (NB- Seminal discharge requires a sin offering before one can be clean again- Leviticus 22:4)

newken:
Intimate immorality is somehow ambiguous. However, you can derive the meaning from the word "Immoral". there is always too much of everything. eating too much, excessive farting in crowded a place etc. Intimate immorality can be explained with the experience of Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. where men decided to sleep with Men (Angels on a visit) after Lot offered them his daughters to quench their thirst. Now if Pre-Marital sex is a grave sin, What effrontery... Why would Lot offer his daughters to vile men before the angels of the almighty God that supposedly forbids Pre-Marital sex? The towns men were used to sexual immorality which you are free to classify as Fornication. Not pre-marital sex. Pre-Marital sex and fornication are not the same. Fornication has many forms, so the Anti-Pre-marital sex campaigners were quick to wrongly include pre-Marital sex among Sexual immoralities.

Rubbish, don't use the actions of bible characters as proof of anything, Lot's daughters have incest relations with him, that in no way makes it right for christians to do, just like him offering up his daughters.

Fornication is a very broad term covering a lot of Sexual related sins. The dictionary and bible commentary of the word translated "fornication" is proof.

newken:
what is sexual immorality? Sodomy and co.[/b ] Pre-Marital sex is not a sin. this cannot be overemphasized. [b] there is always punishment for sins. But there is no punishment for Premarital sex. therefore, Pre-marital sex is not one of the sex sins.

Is that your own personal definition of Sexual immorality, a Dictionary or bible commentary as a source we do. The punishment for Sin is "death". Same with the punishment of greed and lying.

newken:
1 Cor 7:6,7- But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

So the advice of Paul not to have sex before marriage was not a commandment we must follow to the letter. Paul himself affirmed that. it is not a commandment. just an advice. not binding. if God gives you the ability to stay without sex. Good. if not, Not a crime.

.

Why would Paul advice fellow Christians such? Read secular history books about early Christianity from recognised sources- Did early christians practice pre-marital sex? Why was it required for deacons and bishops to be husbands of one wife? How were they different from unbelievers in terms of sex practices?

Paul's advice was included in God's word for a reason, for christians to follow just as he followed christ.

Revelation 14: 4 " these are they which were not defiled with women;....." How can men be DEFIED by women if marriage is not wrong?

Everyone can read the bible and give their own interpretations but not everyone has the Holy spirit, hence, they walk blindly without a guide.

@newken I hope you are bold enough to teach this 'truth' or is it a 'revelation' to your kids.

Even pagans know that this is a wrong!

^^ NEWKEN, should just open his own Church, use his bible quotation to convince his followers that the bible support pre-marital sex. It us see how many persons will follow him and if his teaching will last very long - Acts 5: 36- 39. Then we will really know if such teaching is really from God.

RikoduoSennin: ^^ NEWKEN, should just open his own Church, use his bible quotation to convince his followers that the bible support pre-marital sex. It us see how many persons will follow him and if his teaching will last very long - Acts 5: 36- 39. Then we will really know if such teaching is really from God.

That is not a good way to judge truth. As someone once said "Every man has disciples", it is not so difficult to proselyte especially with enticing words of men's wisdom. Instead we follow Jesus' words "By their fruits you know them".

Interesting thread! Even devil and his agents knows that premarital sex is a sin. In as much as we commit this sin always,we shouldn't encourage it.

@ Rikoduosennin

Judah was a widower (already married) who had sex with a woman he thought to be a prostitute. (Note- Prostitution is one of the olders profession). The law commandment have not been given then you know. Even after the law was made, Samson slept with at least two prostitute, because he was not remanded doesn't mean it is ok. For instance, Tamar is a widow of two husbands, yet she was nearly killed because she was pregnant (via intimate relations outside marriage), why kill her if what she did was not WRONG/SIN according to you.

Response:
I will agree with you and bring out my point from your knowledge. The Law commandment was not given when Judah slept with a lady he took for a prostitute.
Fact 1. Where there is no law, There is no sin. He didn't sin against God
Fact 2. After the law was given, There was no law made against Premarital sex. (consensual sex between unmarried male and female). The same reason why Samson got away with it.
Fact 3. Tamar was nearly killed because she was suspected of "Adultery". I say adultery because by the levirage marriage custom & law, she is betrothed to Judah's last son who was supposed to marry her when he comes of age. (matured). therefore she would be committing adultery to sleep with another man. She was spared because the accuser was guilty. Double guilt of trying not to allow his last son to impregnate her as required by custom and law and also sleeping with his sons betrothed.

All sins lead to death. Whether you like it all not.

Response:
I agree with you but no law is against premarital sex. While all other sexual immoralities had a death penalty, Premarital sex carried no penalty. It is not a sin and not worthy of death.

What is the punishment for Greed? There are laws and there are principles, Mosiac laws were abolish a while back but the principles remain. (NB- Seminal discharge requires a sin offering before one can be clean again- Leviticus 22:4)

Response:
You got it wrong my dear. The seminal discharge refereed to there is an unusual discharge. A sickness. Read Leviticus 15:1-15

Rubbish, don't use the actions of bible characters as proof of anything, Lot's daughters have Inbreeding relations with him, that in no way makes it right for christians to do, just like him offering up his daughters.
Fornication is a very broad term covering a lot of intimate related sins. The dictionary and bible commentary of the word translated "fornication" is proof.

Response:
Whatever translation it is being given. a Fact remains. Premarital sex was clearly emphasized in Deuteronomy 22. and No penalty was given. That aspect of sexual intimacy has been laid to rest with a verdict. It is not a sin against God.


Is that your own personal definition of intimate immorality, a Dictionary or bible commentary as a source we do. The punishment for Sin is "death". Same with the punishment of greed and lying.

Response:
Fornication(intimate immorality) is simply “unlawful sex(eg homosexuality, lesbianism, beastiality, pedophila, incest etc)
Note:
Mathew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. If sex before marriage is fornication, is it possible for the married to commit fornication?

Why would Paul advice fellow Christians such? Read secular history books about early Christianity from recognised sources- Did early christians practice pre-marital sex? Why was it required for deacons and bishops to be husbands of one wife? How were they different from unbelievers in terms of sex practices?
Paul's advice was included in God's word for a reason, for christians to follow just as he followed christ.
Revelation 14: 4 " these are they which were not defiled with women;....." How can men be DEFIED by women if marriage is not wrong?


Response:
Just as paul adviced fellow christians, I am also advising all youths to avoid Premarital sex. However, That does not mean it is a sin. I can advice you to eat less sugar because too much of it causes diabetes or makes you overweight, but is too much eating of sugar punishable under the law? will it take you to hell even when it destroys the body which is the temple of God? No.

Revelation 14: 4-These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

This quote is irrelevant to the argument. Can a married woman or man with children become a Virgin again? The people refereed to are special people. Not everyone. Not you! Not me!


@ Lordreed.

NEWKEN, should just open his own Church, use his bible quotation to convince his followers that the bible support pre-marital sex. It us see how many persons will follow him and if his teaching will last very long - Acts 5: 36- 39. Then we will really know if such teaching is really from God.

Response:
Rikoduosennin gave you a very good reply:That is not a good way to judge truth. As someone once said "Every man has disciples", it is not so difficult to proselyte especially with enticing words of men's wisdom. Instead we follow Jesus' words "By their fruits you know them".

I seek no follower. But the proper interpretation of the Bible against emotional interpretation to justify what we feel is odd about the Bible. remember the things of God are different from Men. Vegetarians think it is wickedness to kill animals for food. but God gave us dominion over them... isn't it? if we were to argue that in our reasoning. it is complete wickedness to kill those innocent animals for food.

@priscaoge

Interesting thread! Even devil and his agents knows that premarital sex is a sin. In as much as we commit this sin always,we shouldn't encourage it

Response:
God didn't call it a sin and he didn't place a penalty on it. Therefore it could mean one thing. Devil and his agents are the ones peddling false teachings and unfortunately...... you have been brainwashed by the their teachings. Follow the Bible verses on this thread bumper to bumper and you will be set free from the shackles of false belief.

Premarital sex is not a sin, But it may hurt you fatally. Remember to abstain and when you don't have the grace, Use Condom. Be Wise