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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Autos / Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) (46414 Views)
Innoson Group Denies Rumors Of Relocation, Shows Appreciation To Buhari / Inside Innoson Factory: From Production To Final Quality Check- Pictures / Innoson, A Car Manufacturer Or Just A Company Assembling Cars? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Scout60(m): 4:36pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Gotze1: you and I know that Chinese imitates brand than any country in the world eg original iPhone and fake iPhone, clothes, motor parts etc. it is not bad to imitate another 3 Likes |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Nobody: 4:37pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
EXOUSIAng: Check these links; https://www.hotcars.com/20-chinese-copycat-cars-we-wouldnt-touch-with-a-ten-foot-pole/ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/features/chinese-copycat-cars-can-you-spot-western-inspiration-behind-these-designs-a7015966.html |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Nobody: 4:38pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Gotze1: Weselion: |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 9:46pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
lucasalves: What is on discuss is clearly above your pay grade. You lump together so many different terminologies to defend what you are ignorant about. Control operations, subsidiary, franchise all in one post and then finally ask at the tail end what bagde engineering is. Meaning you are just talking for the sake of it. Let's even assume that Chinese control operations at IVM plant, what exactly are they controlling? Is it coupling of knocked down parts or actually fabricating from the scratch? If it is the later then you have no argument. It doesn’t matter whose technology Innoson is using in his plant , what matters is that he utilises the knowledge in manufacturing his vehicles to market standard. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by lucasalves: 9:57pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: What knowledge? When the tech isn't is? How do you live with talking from both sides of your mouth? Again no doubt those are terms you will never truly understand no matter the amount of Google search. "What is on discuss" (glad nobody pays you to give speeches, as that will be above your pay grade).
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Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 10:00pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Iegendhero: Stop disgracing your lineage this boy. You are simply confirming what we have been telling you all day long. Up till now you are yet to read up on rebagde engineering. Car models are intellectual property. You can legally copy but you must acknowledge the source of your technology. Even the Baic website confirmed that Innoson is producing a model of their car in Nigeria under his company's name. Those prefix shows the code for models of cars indigenous to those country. Do Nigeria have an indigenous automobile industry before innoson? No! Every thing we had in the past has been foreign. If you are angry about Nigeria not having their own car model, start up your own company assemble engineers and get to work. Innoson is doing smart business, he does not need your half baked input. The main question here is, having gotten the legal right to produce those models in Nigeria, do Innoson have a line that fabricate this exact replica from start to finish. If yes then you have no case. 3 Likes |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 10:12pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
lucasalves: Drug manufacturing technology is not a Nigerian technology. Infact almost all pharmaceutical companies in Nigeria borrow drug formulation from British pharmacopedia with little tweak in active ingredients here and there. Can you now say that a company like Emzor do not manufacture paracetamol because the formular is not originally theirs. Use your brain for once and stop talking rubbish. Innoson do not hide where he got his technology from. It is all over the internet. He is not in competition with the big boys in the industry who can afford high cost of R & D into new models. Badge Engineering is his sure bet to stay afloat until he gets to that point where he can give Nigeria a place on the map. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by lucasalves: 10:19pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Mehn, you are talking in the nonsense. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Iegendhero: 10:52pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: You don't seems to learn. The answer to your last statement is NO. And the likes of JAC will have their VIN manufactured in China because they actually did manufacture that. This is different from reverse Engineering because Innoson is Manufacturing nothing. Everything he does is to import all the part and then do the usual stuffs of reassembling the cars, structural welding and painting. Will he in the future manufacture for real? Probably. But as he stand now he is just assembling Chinese cars with his own brand. Read the below, do I need to open your brain and insert word into it? Midas02: A lot of comments I see here shows how little we Nigerians know about how industries really work. As much as we claim to love cars, we really have no clue about the industry! Innoson (IVM) is nothing but an SKD assembly plant!! I do not want to take anything away from his efforts as an industrialist, but com'on guys, we need to start coming clean on issues rather than making deceitful claims - it is the first rule of international business! Innoson really does what any other third world aspiring investor would do - he went to China, struck a deal with an OEM manufacturer who is looking to expand their market (BAIC in this instance) and then proceeded to start a simple assembly process using SKDs (Semi-Knocked down parts) from the OEM (BAIC). This in a nutshell, is IVM's business model. Quite unfortunately, rather than look at facts, many of our fellow countrymen will keep propagating lies (because nah my broda from my village nah!), keep wallowing in ignorance and self-deceit! Innoson is doing what is needed to grow an industry and if he keeps having success, perhaps at some point in the far future, the company may actually have the funds and the (R& D) department needed to develop an indigenous product.! For now however, all we have is an assembly plant - one that is a great deal inferior to what PAN and VWON had been able to accomplish in the 70s and early 80s. And if you ask me why? Well, PAN and VWON were fully fledged assembly plants that were capable of a complete assembly processes (called CKD assembly). CKD (Completely Knocked Down parts) plants, unlike Semi-Knocked Down (SKD) plants, involves putting together hundreds of components and parts that came in bolts and nuts pieces which often includes structural welding and paint shop! SKD on the other hand is like a starters kit in which most of the components come pre-assembled and painted, you only need to couple the major components together to have a car! Again, CKD comes in pieces, while SKD comes in Component parts. The only thing that was missing from the former PAN and VWON operation in being able to completely manufacture was that there was no Sheet metal stamping, robotic welds, design department and (R& D) department! If you ask me, Nigeria was a lot more advanced in the 70s! Most of the auto manufacturers in Nigeria now simply do SKD and that is why they can get by with such small assembly plants! In finality, for the sake of the stubborn ones in our midst, I will break down the source of each of Innoson's car models for you - google is your friend!: |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by lucasalves: 10:57pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Iegendhero: People here thinking this was a tribal thing when the fact is just being stated and repeated over and over again. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining, I know a reassembled Chinese product when I see one. 1 Like
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Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 11:04pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Iegendhero: You are telling blatant lies just to defend your goofs. All the news agencies including BBC news went on a fact finding tour and comfirmed that actual manufacturing is taking place in the IVM plant. Many agencies, private and public have gone and confirmed. Videos and photos fill the Internet yet you want to turn logic on its head by insisting that Innoson simply assemble parts that has already been manufactured in China. You are pretending to be asleep oga, it is a futile exercise trying to wake you. The fact that you and many like you do not believe makes what Innoson is doing quite commendable. I am glad sensible people from your enclave is catching the car manufacturing fever. Innoson has shown that impossible is nothing. Meanwhile continue to enjoy your second best status. We pioneer, you follow. No wahala but follow with respect. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Iegendhero: 11:17pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Stop replying off key. All this tantrums you are throwing is none of my business. At least I have showed you countless proof that Innoson is assembling Chinese cars 100%. I hope in the future he get it right and start reducing the percentage bit by bit just like I would sih the other African manufacturers parading Chinese cars as indigenous Auto. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 11:29pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Iegendhero: You overestimate mate yourself dude. You are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Innoson do not owe you any explanation. He has gotten it right already. He is manufacturing his cars in Nigeria! What you have shown countless times is a confirmation that Innoson uses Chinese technology in his plant. That he was legally granted right by some Chinese and German companies to copy their car models and manufacture the exact same thing in his plant. The only thing he has done wrong so far in your book of ignorance is Technology Transfer. How dumb can you be. Meanwhile continue to enjoy your second best status. Cheers 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by Iegendhero: 11:32pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: No you are lying. The only thing i established on this thread is that Innoson is importing Chinese parts and re-assembling them in his plant in Nnewi. After doing that, he then paint and paste his logo Lol, I am not inconsequential, everyone just have their core competency. This is just an exercise of setting record straight and I don't give a bleep about what you or Innoson think about this! |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 11:40pm On Aug 31, 2020 |
Iegendhero: Guy your opinion on this thread is hundred percent opposite to what is on ground. That makes it inconsequential! Repeating inconsequential opinion several times will not turn it into reality. You just admitted that Innoson have a painting department in his plant. At least we are getting somewhere. I use to think that CKD comes in already painted. Things we learn in Nairaland everyday 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:23am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Lol, Even baba luku the painter for our area in ibadan can paint cars let alone Innoson or any other care assemblers for that matter! Midas02: A lot of comments I see here shows how little we Nigerians know about how industries really work. As much as we claim to love cars, we really have no clue about the industry! Innoson (IVM) is nothing but an SKD assembly plant!! I do not want to take anything away from his efforts as an industrialist, but com'on guys, we need to start coming clean on issues rather than making deceitful claims - it is the first rule of international business! Innoson really does what any other third world aspiring investor would do - he went to China, struck a deal with an OEM manufacturer who is looking to expand their market (BAIC in this instance) and then proceeded to start a simple assembly process using SKDs (Semi-Knocked down parts) from the OEM (BAIC). This in a nutshell, is IVM's business model. Quite unfortunately, rather than look at facts, many of our fellow countrymen will keep propagating lies (because nah my broda from my village nah!), keep wallowing in ignorance and self-deceit! Innoson is doing what is needed to grow an industry and if he keeps having success, perhaps at some point in the far future, the company may actually have the funds and the (R& D) department needed to develop an indigenous product.! For now however, all we have is an assembly plant - one that is a great deal inferior to what PAN and VWON had been able to accomplish in the 70s and early 80s. And if you ask me why? Well, PAN and VWON were fully fledged assembly plants that were capable of a complete assembly processes (called CKD assembly). CKD (Completely Knocked Down parts) plants, unlike Semi-Knocked Down (SKD) plants, involves putting together hundreds of components and parts that came in bolts and nuts pieces which often includes structural welding and paint shop! SKD on the other hand is like a starters kit in which most of the components come pre-assembled and painted, you only need to couple the major components together to have a car! Again, CKD comes in pieces, while SKD comes in Component parts. The only thing that was missing from the former PAN and VWON operation in being able to completely manufacture was that there was no Sheet metal stamping, robotic welds, design department and (R& D) department! If you ask me, Nigeria was a lot more advanced in the 70s! Most of the auto manufacturers in Nigeria now simply do SKD and that is why they can get by with such small assembly plants! In finality, for the sake of the stubborn ones in our midst, I will break down the source of each of Innoson's car models for you - google is your friend!: 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 12:24am On Sep 01, 2020 |
Iegendhero: , proeast come and carry una friend abeg. According to him "Innoson does his usual stuff of reassembling, then structural welding and painting". Help me ask him at what point do Innoson assemble the cars; after structural welding and painting or before Does it mean that China send down plain steel to Innoson to weld and paint? I am confused biko someone should help explain to me what CKD is again. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:28am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Stop saying nonsense. Even Baba Mufu can paint cars, is he also a manufacturer? already gave up coz this is the second time he will run away from this type of argument with me. We both did this already on another thread some days ago! Midas02: A lot of comments I see here shows how little we Nigerians know about how industries really work. As much as we claim to love cars, we really have no clue about the industry! Innoson (IVM) is nothing but an SKD assembly plant!! I do not want to take anything away from his efforts as an industrialist, but com'on guys, we need to start coming clean on issues rather than making deceitful claims - it is the first rule of international business! Innoson really does what any other third world aspiring investor would do - he went to China, struck a deal with an OEM manufacturer who is looking to expand their market (BAIC in this instance) and then proceeded to start a simple assembly process using SKDs (Semi-Knocked down parts) from the OEM (BAIC). This in a nutshell, is IVM's business model. Quite unfortunately, rather than look at facts, many of our fellow countrymen will keep propagating lies (because nah my broda from my village nah!), keep wallowing in ignorance and self-deceit! Innoson is doing what is needed to grow an industry and if he keeps having success, perhaps at some point in the far future, the company may actually have the funds and the (R& D) department needed to develop an indigenous product.! For now however, all we have is an assembly plant - one that is a great deal inferior to what PAN and VWON had been able to accomplish in the 70s and early 80s. And if you ask me why? Well, PAN and VWON were fully fledged assembly plants that were capable of a complete assembly processes (called CKD assembly). CKD (Completely Knocked Down parts) plants, unlike Semi-Knocked Down (SKD) plants, involves putting together hundreds of components and parts that came in bolts and nuts pieces which often includes structural welding and paint shop! SKD on the other hand is like a starters kit in which most of the components come pre-assembled and painted, you only need to couple the major components together to have a car! Again, CKD comes in pieces, while SKD comes in Component parts. The only thing that was missing from the former PAN and VWON operation in being able to completely manufacture was that there was no Sheet metal stamping, robotic welds, design department and (R& D) department! If you ask me, Nigeria was a lot more advanced in the 70s! Most of the auto manufacturers in Nigeria now simply do SKD and that is why they can get by with such small assembly plants! In finality, for the sake of the stubborn ones in our midst, I will break down the source of each of Innoson's car models for you - google is your friend!: 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 12:33am On Sep 01, 2020 |
LegendHero: I know, even you if you give it a try. So tell me what exactly Innoson paints in his plant. Does the manufactured parts from China come without paint or do Innoson repaint them after assembling. By the way your are clearly out of league here my friend just give it a rest. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:41am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Stop wasting my time, I can't spoonfeed you all the time. What happens if for example the paint on the body parts are scratched either through container handling or other cause? Or if Innoson needed to deliver 50 NA army crested trucks to the army? Will he run to Shinedu to paint those? Or if Anambra government need a bus with the color on it, will Innoson go to Unahia to get a painter? Abi if Nigeria police need their color on the Innoson delivered car, will he run to Uche in Onitsha to paint them? Or you think the Chinese will also deliver everything to him with Police logo/color or Army logo/color from source? 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 12:41am On Sep 01, 2020 |
LegendHero: Lol. He simply gave up on your ignorance. We are used to your gorilla dusts which you use to deceive you fellow westerners here on Nairaland. They swallow your blatant lies hook ,line and sinker. Umu Igbo know how to scratch the surface. Every single lie you posted here has been rubbished. Now you are licking your vomit. From shouting they do not manufacture, you are now saying that they weld and paint. Stick to one line of argument. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by gwafaeziokwu: 12:46am On Sep 01, 2020 |
LegendHero: Now I confirm that you are OLODO square. We are not doing beer parlour discussion here please. Here is your home work. Google steps in car manufacturing and then read up on bagde Engineering. Look up any of the numerous videos of innoson vehicle manufacturing process on the internet. Then give your self a big knock for disgracing your lineage on this thread. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:47am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Stop saying nosense. The below is all you need to know! A lot of comments I see here shows how little we Nigerians know about how industries really work. As much as we claim to love cars, we really have no clue about the industry! Innoson (IVM) is nothing but an SKD assembly plant!! I do not want to take anything away from his efforts as an industrialist, but com'on guys, we need to start coming clean on issues rather than making deceitful claims - it is the first rule of international business! Innoson really does what any other third world aspiring investor would do - he went to China, struck a deal with an OEM manufacturer who is looking to expand their market (BAIC in this instance) and then proceeded to start a simple assembly process using SKDs (Semi-Knocked down parts) from the OEM (BAIC). This in a nutshell, is IVM's business model. Quite unfortunately, rather than look at facts, many of our fellow countrymen will keep propagating lies (because nah my broda from my village nah!), keep wallowing in ignorance and self-deceit! Innoson is doing what is needed to grow an industry and if he keeps having success, perhaps at some point in the far future, the company may actually have the funds and the (R& D) department needed to develop an indigenous product.! For now however, all we have is an assembly plant - one that is a great deal inferior to what PAN and VWON had been able to accomplish in the 70s and early 80s. And if you ask me why? Well, PAN and VWON were fully fledged assembly plants that were capable of a complete assembly processes (called CKD assembly). CKD (Completely Knocked Down parts) plants, unlike Semi-Knocked Down (SKD) plants, involves putting together hundreds of components and parts that came in bolts and nuts pieces which often includes structural welding and paint shop! SKD on the other hand is like a starters kit in which most of the components come pre-assembled and painted, you only need to couple the major components together to have a car! Again, CKD comes in pieces, while SKD comes in Component parts. The only thing that was missing from the former PAN and VWON operation in being able to completely manufacture was that there was no Sheet metal stamping, robotic welds, design department and (R& D) department! If you ask me, Nigeria was a lot more advanced in the 70s! Most of the auto manufacturers in Nigeria now simply do SKD and that is why they can get by with such small assembly plants! In finality, for the sake of the stubborn ones in our midst, I will break down the source of each of Innoson's car models for you - google is your friend!: 2 Likes |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:50am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Lol gave up on my ignorance? LWKMD You think I am responding to you because I thought you are saying anyting meaningful? Hell no, I am responding because the more we increase the number of page, the more the people that will view the thread. I already completed everything that need to be done on this thread from page 1. All this we are doing is just simply extending the thread. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 12:54am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Lol my gorilla dust ke? At least thanks for noticing me BUT I don’t think my fellow westerners need me before they can destroy you guys with fact from credible sources. In my own case, I don’t have time for plenty argument, I always present sources to anything I say even if it’s just a sentence because I think credibility matters in this age and time. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by BlindedIrony(m): 1:04am On Sep 01, 2020 |
Iegendhero: Chinese or not, you can never reach his height. His manufacturing companies employ a lot of Nigerians. His cars sale quite well. What Innonson is doing, you can never do what he has done. Your Grandfather did not. Your father did not. And, you will not. I mean Nigerians will remember Innonson once he is gone like EkeneDilichukwu and co. Must be painful to watch Innonson progress every day? Everyone cannot contribute to society, my little boy. Some of us will fight battles on the internet, while the rest will accomplish things in real life. Invincible people come and go. Such is life. It is what it is. 2 Likes |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by BlindedIrony(m): 1:15am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: Exactly! That is what I was trying to point out to this fool whose has nothing going on in his life like the rest of us. The Chinese knockout most of the American products- from military to basic phones. They did not import it. The designs are there for them to knockout. Innonson does the same. Does not matter what they look at alike. The shit that matters is that he has physical locations that build 80% of these mechanical structures with hundreds of Nigerian workers. Look at the car batteries in the world- are they not the same designs? Do not mind internet warrior joor. Only an illiterate or a jobless so-called graduate will spend all day copying and re-posting post to bring down a Nigerian whose companies are providing jobs for jobless youths. Come to think of it? The idiot cannot even get a job at Innonson or NORD. He is not that skillful. Someone tell the house Nigga to keep waiting for your colonial master 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 1:21am On Sep 01, 2020 |
BlindedIrony: You guys and your usual wailing and tears over simple issues. All what we are doing here is just setting record straight and here you are attacking me personally just because I air my opinion. I might not be where Innoson is right now, but at my current age, I am doing very good for myself. I am not even sure with all sincerity that Innoson achieved what I have currently achieved (educationally and financial wise) when he was in his mid-20s. Ogbeni we are just starting and stop bringing all those emotional rubbish on here. Because I don't own an assembly plant doesn't imply that I can't air my opinions freely online. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by LegendHero(m): 1:25am On Sep 01, 2020 |
BlindedIrony: LOL. Any man that has to say I am a king is no true king. I won't start chestbeating or wailing with what I have achieved on here BUT I am pretty sure you can't even come close financially to the people I employ in my co-owned non-bank MFI back home in Naija? I don't know why you guys are wailing too much on this thread. It is not that serious especially when I am just showing the truth with credible sources. 1 Like |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by BlindedIrony(m): 1:26am On Sep 01, 2020 |
gwafaeziokwu: That is how Tata started! Look at the company now. Toyota started like that too. The owner was knocking out Ford cars prior to WWII. That is what I pointed out to this fool, but he would not see it. Once a technology is formed, it is copied by everyone. That is why car batteries, laptops, electric fans, generators, cars (sedan, trucks and SUVS) and planes have the same primary design with little tweaks. Innonson has created jobs for Nigerians there. I appreciate his efforts. He is not competing with anyone- the big dogs or other local manufacturers. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by BlindedIrony(m): 1:35am On Sep 01, 2020 |
LegendHero: Oh, are we beating chests now? You are right though: No, I won't come close to it. I mean you are there jobless. I am here a medical doctor earning the kind of money that will pay your descendants living expenses for about 300 years (all things equal: say they remain in Nigeria, never left and grow old). As for owning a bank, bitch please! For someone who owns a bank, you surely painfully jealous of Innonson. I mean he is a fellow entrepreneur. |
Re: Participants Of The Army War College Of Nigeria Tour INNOSON Group(photos) by BlindedIrony(m): 1:40am On Sep 01, 2020 |
LegendHero: You just made my point. You went to school, and he did not. If you weren't such a fool, you would appreciate his economic liberation of Nigerian youths by providing jobs. Instead, you are hearing measuring balls with him. Listen boy, go and write it down somewhere. With all the degrees you have, you cannot reach that creative non-formal educated Nigerian man's height. It must be painful, isn't it? You went to school. He did not. |
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