obaaderemi:
Please,close your eyes to the title of the thread.
Nigeria indeed has Africa's largest economy. By some accounts, Lagos even has an economy bigger than those of Ethiopia, Tanzania, Kenya,etc. By other accounts, Nigerians are some of the brightest people around- Nigerians, they say, are the most educated immigrants in America, and the smartest family in the UK is Nigerian.
*Nigeria has huge deposits of minerals.
*Nigeria has enough arable land to feed the West African subregion.
*Nigeria has great animal breeding potential.
*Nigeria has two universities in Times Higher Education ranking of top10 universities in Africa.

The list is endless. So why is the country still like this?
So many reasons have been adduced for Nigeria's present situation but the one that resonates most with my own thinking is this: Nigeria and the north itself must be rescued from the northerners. I don't know how you see it, but to me, whoever controls the politics of a land controls pretty much everything else. We can not expect the country to progress at the level we desire while the largely illiterate north remains in control, because they will continue to hold the country back either through acts of commission or omission. Reason why I said even the north needs rescuing from itself. Just a personal opinion though.
But inspite of whatever it is that is responsible for Nigeria's present situation, there must be something we can do to push Nigeria forward and lift millions out of poverty, even if marginally.

cc: InvertedHammer (I've often wondered about this moniker. Must be an economist or a communist. )
LegendHero
Rossinky
theenchanter
forgiveness
igbochief
And anybody else interested in national and international economics and finance and how they affect Nigeria's progress.
Your 2 cents,please.

jln115:

South Africa are pioneers in howitzer technology due to the fact that our howitzers out range its nearest competitors by nearly 15kms.

Also never said Egypt doesn't have modern arms.... Neither did I say SA ranks above them I simply stated that the SANDF is the most technologically advanced and most self sustainable defence force in Africa by far.

Also I didn't say Egypt doesn't manufacture MRAPs.

forgiveness:



The problem are not the northerners only but it has to do with the mindset of almost all Nigerians.

forgiveness:

The mindset to think about oneself above the collective interest of the country.

Nigerians as a whole needs to change their mindset and inculcate the mindset to think and for others first before themselves.

obaaderemi:
No doubt, Fani Kayode is well educated. As educated as some of the most prominent politicians worldwide but he has allowed Nigeria's political climate to pollute him. He seems to have lost his mind. I often wonder how such a man with such pedigree and education could be so irrelevant in local and national politics.

obaaderemi:
Look, man, you are only as good as your weapon,like they say.
If the Egyptians have got more weapons than you do and also more troops and a bigger military budget, then no wonder they are ranked higher. Plus the fact that they also have an armament industry just like South Africa.

obaaderemi:
He is nailed already.

obaaderemi:
He has been twisting and lying for days.

jln115:
well you see that's were you are wrong bro.... It's not how much you have but how well you can use it. And the better communication technology, logistics, and self sustainability you have the more effective you are at using your weapon systems.

jln115:

During the entire 23 year Border war the SADF never had more than 4000 soldiers on the front line the enemy out numbered them 10 to 1 but got smashed in every battle with the SADF simply due to the effectiveness of how the weapons systems were used.

jln115:

The fact that the SANDF has an incredible communication system thanks mostly to our TDL nigates the use of huge forces like with Egypts case.

jln115:

Also the Egyptian arms industry is miniscule compared to that of SA which is a major arms exporter in the world

forgiveness:

Hahahaha! Na em way.

obaaderemi:
How am I wrong? The Egyptians have more hardware than you do and also know how to use it. You don't acquire so much without spending a lot on training as well, as the Egyptians have shown over the decades. And they are self- sustainable as well. I don't see how sadf is more sustainable than they are since they also manufacture some of their hardware and are on good terms with the major arms exporting countries.

In the Border War, SADF fought mainly against poorly trained and disorganized enemies such as FAPLA and SWAPO. And yet you got insider help from Savimbi and Unita. At the end of the day, you couldn't win the Border War. It ended in a stalemate.

Bro, you know this is bullshit. There's no way you can prove your communication system is more advanced than what the Egyptians have. Remember, Egypt has interests not only in Africa but Middle East as well.

Egyptian arms industry is not miniscule and South Africa is not a major arms exporting country. The Egyptians make a lot of arms which however are absorbed by their very large forces which is, like you admit, about ten times yours.

jln115:

- Egypt have had very poor military results especially against Israel in the past..... So yeah don't what you are talking about what they have shown over the decades.

jln115:

- The hardware they build are almost entirely licensed built, meaning they are dependent on foreign suppliers.

- they have 0 commonality when it comes to thier hardware they have a whole mixture of Russian , Western and Chinese weapon systems which would make self sustainability in terms simple maintenance impossible.

jln115:

-As stated above Egypt are highly reliant on foreign suppliers, which means a sanction from either the US, Russia or China would render the majority of their systems useless....

jln115:

- and ofcourse the SANDF is more sustainable since the majority of its weapons are designed and built in SA...... little reliance on foreign suppliers especially compared to Egypt.

jln115:

- The SADF fought against an enemy with then state of thee art Mig 21s, T55s,BRT, SAMs ect ect ect.. .. And also against 40000 Russian trained Cuban soldiers. And in the end didn't lose 1 single battle in the entire war and only withdrew because uncle Sam said so.

jln115:

- The fact that SA has a TDL and Egypt doesn't already shows which has more advanced communication systems.....

jln115:

-South Africa is the 17th largest Arms exporter.... That would make it a major Arms exporter in my books... Also almost all the hardware built in Egypt are built under license, if Trump or Putin pulls the plug then they ain't building sh1t

obaaderemi:
Israel was and remains a more formidable enemy than the ragtag Angolans you faced.

Egypt imports a lot of armaments from different sources. This is not a weakness like you imply. It affords them the chance to buy cutting edge stuff from the best suppliers in the world and they are well stocked. Egypt is one of the 20 biggest importers of arms in the world.

Don't be silly. All the suppliers can not issue sanctions at the same time. The Egyptians knew the danger of relying on a single supplier, hence the baskets of arms suppliers. It's called: Covering Your Ass.

The SADF is not more sustainable. Maybe more self-sustainable.

Yet, you couldn't defeat the Angolans in 23years to help UNITA seize the capital and dislodge the FAPLA guys. Without your Angolan helpers, your casualties and loss would have been higher. I heard you had to use the Angolan allies as pawns on mine- rigged fields.

Egypt has got the TIBA 1 military communication system. Does South Africa have that?

Like I said, Egypt imports most of its arms and it has good stuff. South Africa has done well to become a top 20 arms exporting country but what the Egyptians can not make, they import since they've got the means. And this is why their military is ranked higher than South Africa's. See charts. Even the USA is a major arms importer, does it mean their military is not self- sustaining?

jln115:

- And yet the Egyptian defence force struggles to this day with ragtag terrorist groups in its county

- Its definitely a weakness since it would be impossible to manufacture that many spares for than many different platforms.

- The fact still remains that they are extremely susceptible to sanctions since they don't build their own systems.(they are all either imported or licensed built)

- I said more self sustainable from the start.

- The fact still remains with a mere 4000 troops vs an enemy 10 times that size the SADF didn't lose a single battle in the entire war and fyi as far as I know Angola and Namibia are democracies and not communist states.

- bro TIBA 1 is a civilian communications satellite used for broadband .... SA has the Kondor E spy satellite and several other civilian satellites in orbit ..... Good try though

- I never said SA ranked above Egypt.... That argument you are having with yourself... I said the SANDF is the most technologically advanced and most self sustainable defense force in Africa

obaaderemi:
Well, your SADF couldn't defeat the FAPLA ragtag guys in spite of your so-called superior military.

Angola and Namibia are not communists but that was because FAPLA didn't intend to go communist after your army's retreat in 1988. You couldn't have stopped them if they had wanted to. At least you couldn't help UNITA achieve its goal. And most of the fighting was done by your Angolan allies and not your white soldiers. Stop saying you fought an enemy ten times your size.

If the Egyptians choose to buy most of their weapons from different sources, it is an advantage. It helps them acquire better weapons than a country like South Africa which manufactures some of its. They've got some shiit you can only dream off.

And lastly, you are a bit ignorant about military communication systems. The TIBA 1 doubles as a military satellite and not wholly a commercial satellite. Nice try though.

jln115:

- Egypt have had very poor military results especially against Israel in the past..... So yeah don't what you are talking about what they have shown over the decades.

- The hardware they build are almost entirely licensed built, meaning they are dependent on foreign suppliers.

- they have 0 commonality when it comes to thier hardware they have a whole mixture of Russian , Western and Chinese weapon systems which would make self sustainability in terms simple maintenance impossible.

-As stated above Egypt are highly reliant on foreign suppliers, which means a sanction from either the US, Russia or China would render the majority of their systems useless....

- and ofcourse the SANDF is more sustainable since the majority of its weapons are designed and built in SA...... little reliance on foreign suppliers especially compared to Egypt.

- The SADF fought against an enemy with then state of thee art Mig 21s, T55s,BRT, SAMs ect ect ect.. .. And also against 40000 Russian trained Cuban soldiers. And in the end didn't lose 1 single battle in the entire war and only withdrew because uncle Sam said so.

- The fact that SA has a TDL and Egypt doesn't already shows which has more advanced communication systems.....

-South Africa is the 17th largest Arms exporter.... That would make it a major Arms exporter in my books... Also almost all the hardware built in Egypt are built under license, if Trump or Putin pulls the plug then they ain't building sh1t

forgiveness:


Which of South Africa weapons are not under licence?

jln115:

Ratel
Rooikat
Casspir
Mamba
Olifant
G6
G5
G7
Hornet RDRV
Rg35
Rg33
Rg31
Mbombe
Seeker400
A-Darter SRAAM
Umkhonto SAM
Ingwe ATM
Mokopa ATM
Marlin BVRM
LinkZA
Chaka C2
Impi Blufor Tracker
Y3/2 Grenade launchers
NTW 20 anti material rifle
Rooivalk AH
Oryx
Cobra HMD
Al Tariq bomb kit

How many more do you want me to mention?

forgiveness:



Cheetah Mk2, now denoted as the Rooikat.
These prototypes were designed with technical assistance from a West German engineering firm, Thyssen-Henschel.

The first Rooikats were manufactured by Sandock-Austral.

Foreign investment.

Same German company produced In 1979, Sandock-Austral introduced the Ratel Mk II,

All these are foreign investments in South Africa. If they decide to return back to their countries South Africa defence industry will comatose.

jln115:

Sandrock-Austral is a South African company not a German company

forgiveness:


Owned by foreigners.

jln115:
@obaaderemi
FAPLA Army
T62s,T55s,BTRs,M21 Grand...........

jln115:

- yeah couldn't defeat FAPLA....... Just never lost a single battle during 23 years, also those a ragtag rebel group have then state of thee art T55s, BTRs, Mig21s, Mi24s, SAMs ect ect ect FYI Angola was easily the second biggest military power in Africa at t jf at time.

jln115:

- just think to yourself quickly, why did the SADF retreat when they were a stone throw away from Luanda? And why did thier retreat coincidentally happen at the exact time that the USSR fell?

jln115:

- Buying from so many different suppliers makes it impossible to be self sustainable, and expensive to do simple maintenance. Just for example, in the SA Army, the Ratel, Rooikat, Casspir and Mamba vehicles all run the same running gear which is manufactured by Atlantis, that makes maintenance a breeze, same thing goes with our Airforces Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters that also use the same engine and gearbox.

jln115:

- I agree Egypt have some excellent e hardware that I wish SA had, for example an LHD.... However we also have things like LinkZa, Chaka C2, impi blufor tracker which Egypt would kill for.

jln115:

-The TIBA1 is a broadband communication satellite that's it.... South Africa has a dedicated military spy satellite.

forgiveness:

Owned by foreigners.

obaaderemi:
You didn't lose a single battle against FAPLA because you had Angolans doing most of the job for you.
The Angolans were your canon fodder for your candyass and reservist army.
And yes, the FAPLA was ragtag, aided by Cubans.

I've thought about it- not quickly but for years- and I just wondered why it was impossible for you to help Savimbi dislodge the FAPLA boys and take the whole of Angola. Short conclusion: Your SADF was demystified in Angola.
Do you have a better than that for your retreat?

You may be right here but buying from several sources provides the Egyptians with some level of security. But all the same, I give it to the South Africans in terms of self sustainability. But the Egyptians with their higher military budgets have been able to acquire better weapons than you, even if they have to buy from others.

However we may choose to look at it, Egypt's military is better armed than SADF.

Tiba 1 is more than a broadband satellite. It has military uses also.

jln115:

- Ragtag yet they had Mig21s,Mig23s,T62s,T55s,BTRs,SAMs...............Now if FAPLA was ragtag...what does that make the Nigerian military? lower than snail sh1t?

jln115:

- The thing you are forgetting is that the Border War was part of the cold war........meaning it was much much more political, the SADF couldn't just send in 50 000 troops and steam rolled FAPLA like they could've done........Now answer my question, why did the SADF withdraw when they were a stone throw from Luanda and why did it coincide with the fall of communism?

jln115:

- They have been able to acquire more weapons systems yes.........but except for the LHD I don't see anything that I would say is better than what the SANDF already haves and needs.

jln115:

- Yes I know the Egyptian is better armed..........hell even in my own ranking I ranked Egypt as the nr 1 most powerful military in Africa, so what the fvck are you actually arguing?

jln115:

- Broadband has military uses..........wow didn't know that

obaaderemi:
Are you mad? FAPLA had only 12 MIGs in the 70s while the Nigerian army deployed 24 MIGs against the Biafrans in the 60s. FAPLA was ragtag. They were cowardly and disorganized.

Haaaaa! I know the Border War was part of the wider cold war. But you know, South Africa took it very seriously and gave it all it could, especially when Botha took over. Problem was: the SADF was small because it excluded blacks. By the early 80s, it had a force less than 100,000 and most of them were inexperienced conscripts. So it had to rely mostly on black Angolans. Besides, distance and logistics was a problem for SADF. You are talking of a war more than 1000km away in hostile environment. Plus the fact that the white populace at home gave little support. Plus the constraints of the international embargo.
No, man, South Africa could not just steamroll FAPLa. FAPLA may be ragtag but they were diehards.
You couldn't even dislodge them from Cuito Cuanavale and you are here talking of Luanda.


If they have got Apaches as I suspect, then I would say they have something better than what you have in regard of that.

The argument is not about the ranking. We all know they rank higher. The argument is about you claiming you've got better military technology than Egyptians.

Tiba1 is more than a broadband satellite. It makes use of Ka- band which military satellites use nowadays. It doubles as a military satellite. That was part of the deal with Airbus Defense.(See attached screenshot). Don't bother to thank me for that detail.