ojeysky:


Certainly not with a 24hrs AC haba but as I don't use them 24hrs and since I still have utility 14kw is enough backup for me for now o else what happened in 1960 go repeat itself

Oh yes. I forgot that part that you have utility. It implies your system more or less serves as a power back up.

Ultimately scaled down to a total of 20 bricks for 48v 1000Ah/48kwh energy stored.

I had new stock arrive and customer upsized from 4 units to 8 units so I sadly had to let 4 of mine go after just 2 hours of service.

For now at least

ojeysky:


1200Ah/48v LFP is something else o..... You've become a mini grid o. My 560AH/24v is already more than enough for my needs

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NiyiOmoIyunade:
When your base load is [b]3kw to 4kw [/b]overnight. 48v 1200Ah doesn't really go very far....

For your price vs performance tradeoff argument, I used to be a staunch advocate of value products e.g I used MustPower inverters for nearly 4 years. At some point my paradigm changed. When you reach that place you will know as well

Nawa o the whole consumption of my village even plus my Street sef

eleojo23:


Ok, but the 50% DOD rule still applies to all regardless of C rating?

Does DOD mean depth of discharge? How do you measure that?

danowena:

Does DOD mean depth of discharge? How do you measure that?

There is a chart for that using the voltage value.

For a 12volt system, 50% DOD is around 12.1 or 12.0 (Multiply the figure by 2 or 4 if it's a 24v or 48v system respectively.)

So once it gets to that voltage, you should stop using the battery until it's recharged. Some programmable inverters automatically cut off load at this voltage if set as such.

Remember I have a fairly decent coding background, the scripts will not run a second iteration until the first one is done so 6 iterations may run in 55 seconds or 1 minute 10 seconds - the goal is to pound the system but keep my dashboard data always live (10 secs or less refresh rate).

The real issue is how the OS handles memory, may not cleanly release memory after program terminates and therefore make the system appear short on resources. For a long time, I thought the limiting factor was processor but my deep dive under the hood revealed memory and memory management to be the real issue (was logging system stats every 5 mins and parsing the outputs)

I see you are using a Pi4 with 4 times the RAM I have so that explains the stability you have .

Because I use a premium EVO SD card, I have no fear of frequent reboots - in any case the scripts I have *sync* the system before performing a reboot so all files and logs are safely written to disc first.

litaninja:
I am running Pi 4Bs 4GB running Raspbian 10 Buster. Just direct installs via imager without NOOBs.
6 times per minute? Hmmm, does that give the scripts enough time to run, terminate & return resources properly to the system? As most *nix are quite stable and are expected to go months/years without a reboot.

Also, the monitoring package I'm using is sitting on docker, that would help stability as well.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
When your base load is 3kw to 4kw overnight. 48v 1200Ah doesn't really go very far....

For your price vs performance tradeoff argument, I used to be a staunch advocate of value products e.g I used MustPower inverters for nearly 4 years. At some point my paradigm changed. When you reach that place you will know as well

Seconded

I plan to sell off my trusty 3kW 48V PowerStar/MustPower. It's been gathering dust over the past 2 or so years. It performed outstandingly well while in service but somehow doesn't even come close to the MultiPlus which retired it. The Quattro I currently use is essentially a MultiPlus with additional inputs with corresponding attendant features

Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

200ah is 200ah acid or not it will not perform to dat standard

eleojo23:


There is a chart for that using the voltage value.

For a 12volt system, 50% DOD is around 12.1 or 12.0 (Multiply the figure by 2 or 4 if it's a 24v or 48v system respectively.)

So once it gets to that voltage, you should stop using the battery until it's recharged. Some programmable inverters automatically cut off load at this voltage if set as such.

Good clarification. The issue is that when battery is on load it drops in volt. Hence measuring the threshold of 12.1v or 12.0v is not that easy.

For example, I set my low DC cut-off voltage to 23.6V on my 24v system cos I know when loads are off it, it reverts to 24v or thereabout. What do you think about this please?

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

No it is not.

100AH 24v = 2400 Watt Hours

200AH 24V= 4800 Watt Hours

That's to show you they differ in capacity. Only 100Ah 48V (if existing) can match 200AH 24V.

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Take into consideration the 50% DOD of Lead acid and 80% on Lithium. I am looking for usage comments.

Abdomox:


No it is not.

100AH 24v = 2400 Watt Hours

200AH 24V= 4800 Watt Hours

That's to show you they differ in capacity. Only 100Ah 48V (if existing) can match 200AH 24V.

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

It should, longer service life but lesser backup time

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

be careful bro, 200ah 24v lead acid is far higher in capacity compared to 100ah 24v lithium.
don't get sucked in by the lithium hype.

babniyen:
Take into consideration the 50% DOD of Lead acid and 80% on Lithium. I am looking for usage comments.

Sure. The calculations did not factor DoD. It's just capacity of the batteries in watt.

GeorgeD1:


be careful bro, 200ah 24v lead acid is far higher in capacity compared to 100ah 24v lithium.
don't get sucked in by the lithium hype.

I totally agree with this comment. Experienced it first hand, the back up time is not at par at all. The only compensation I see is longer shelf life...

babniyen:
Take into consideration the 50% DOD of Lead acid and 80% on Lithium. I am looking for usage comments.

With this reply of yours, I'd say you already know 95% of the answer to your question. I guess you need more inputs to validate your conclusion.

The 50% DoD of Lead acid is a disadvantage when it comes to comparing it with the 80% DoD of LFP, even though you may also not want to deep discharge your LFP to 80% DoD too often in order to further prolong it's service years.

LFP expectedly has longer cycle life than the average Lead acids available out there in our market.

So yes, I'd say go for the LFP in place of LA, provided your source of LFP is reliable to give true capacity of the product.

Assume 80% DoD for Lithium and 50% DoD for Lead Acid.

24v 100Ah Lithium * 80% is 1.9kwh useable energy

24v 200Ah Lead Acid * 50% is 2.4kwh useable energy.

If you were running a 240watt load and you have the means to cutoff precisely at DoD limit (think decent inverter or external device) your Lithium bank will run 8 hours before it concs out but your Lead Acid will run 10 hours - you get 2 extra hours from the Lead Acid.

So 24v 125Ah of Lithium at 80% DoD is equal to 24 200Ah of Lead Acid at 50% DoD.

In practice, there will be those days when you need that little extra juice and you can still get 1.5kwh extra from your 24v 200Ah lead acid bank (deep discharge) but your 24v 100/125Ah Lithium has long since been fully spent and conced out and stayed dead till next recharge.

That is why I have a 48v 800Ah LFP bank and still took it to 1000Ah and still counting - those rainy days and heavy demand days do come - it is much easier and cheaper to oversize lead acid than Lithium.

The benefit of Lithium is superior stability and relatively longer life if used within its design tolerance. That said, a Lithium bank properly used tends to have a higher chance of delivering on the promised life span than a similar lead acid. This is due to the BMS and balancing circuits to a large extent as well as the chemistry.

babniyen:
Take into consideration the 50% DOD of Lead acid and 80% on Lithium. I am looking for usage comments.

Thanks everyone. I can see clearly now...

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

If it's actual 100AH LFP go for that instead, assuming you have appropriate charging mechanism

Abdomox:


No it is not.

100AH 24v = 2400 Watt Hours

200AH 24V= 4800 Watt Hours

That's to show you they differ in capacity. Only 100Ah 48V (if existing) can match 200AH 24V.

It is if you are working with acceptable DOD on both chemistry

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Assume 80% DoD for Lithium and 50% DoD for Lead Acid.

24v 100Ah Lithium * 80% is 1.9kwh useable energy

24v 200Ah Lead Acid * 50% is 2.4kwh useable energy.

If you were running a 240watt load and you have the means to cutoff precisely at DoD limit (think decent inverter or external device) your Lithium bank will run 8 hours before it concs out but your Lead Acid will run 10 hours - you get 2 extra hours from the Lead Acid.

So 24v 125Ah of Lithium at 80% DoD is equal to 24 200Ah of Lead Acid at 50% DoD.

<snip>

Yes the chairman himself has given it a better analysis. Though I still think it's only a 30%DOD of lead acid that will be equivalent to 80% DOD of LFP especially when it comes to matching cycles.

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

As I have said here many times, unless your load is very small, your lead acid is likely to die before you get to 50% DoD due to voltage sag and inverter cut-off. So, don't be deceived by the 200AH of lead acid battery, it is a mirage, you can never get 200Ah out of that battery in real life. LFP on the other hand will give you its name plate AH and then a little more since they are usually mildly underrated.

ojeysky:


It is if you are working with acceptable DOD on both chemistry

Even with DoD, 50% of 4800WH and 80% of 2400WH are not the same.

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Abdomox:


Even with DoD, 50% of 4800WH and 80% of 2400WH are not the same.

I actually did a follow-up that a lead acid will only be close if it's 30% of 4.8kwh and 80% of 2.56kwh LFP

ojeysky:


If it's actual 100AH LFP go for that instead, assuming you have appropriate charging mechanism

baba, just like that, without providing supporting physics abi maths behind your advice.

For me, unless he has a high wattage load he wants to run for a few minutes at intervals, i would recommend lead acid, if he can lay his hands on 2v cells, even better.

The ultimate dilemma is 2v 24pcs 1000ah (48v 1000ah) lead acid vs 3.2v 32pcs 280ah (48v 560ah) lifepo4 for a 48v inverter, for domestic use which is better/would you choose

i really get amused when i see these postulations on paper how 50% dod of lead acid should be equal to
80% dod of lithium. even now we are seeing weirder assumptions of 30% being equal to 80% lead acid!
i guess its fine when we do these abstract projections but we all know that in the real world things do
turn out differently.
having said that, i think the main attraction for lithium remains its expected longevity due to the possible
many cycles as compared to lead acid. however, if my recent experience with my zenith batteries is anything
to go by, it means lead acid when properly managed can also give many years of use without conking out
(by the way, my guy who bought the used zeniths from me has had nothing but praise for their
outstanding performance). quite remarkable given they already served me for 7 years plus as at the time i
replaced them and sold them off.
then, enter the hoppeckes, the exides, the sonnenscheins which promise up to 15 years of quality backup
for their lead acid batteries and the attraction for lithium further takes a dive.
while the lithium jingle continues unabated, my candid advice to newbies is to be wary of bogus promises
from sellers intent on offloading their lithium wares on them. they will come up with several clever marketing
tactics all intended to make a sale.
if you're just starting off on the renewables journey, you will do well to stick with tried and tested products of
which lead acid batteries is one example. you really don't need to dabble into lithium where you have to
contend with a whole gamut of bos devices including bms, bmv, cell balancers, special chargers with lithium
profile, inverters which have to be tinkered with in order to work with lithium, etc.
the world is already complex as it is, you don't need to complicate things further just because you want to
provide reliable uninterrupted power for your household.
go with what works out of the box. a word is enough...