Itshekiri are Yorubas and benin kingship is yoruba- Ayo Oritsejafor
Ayodele Joseph Oritsegbubemi Oritsejafor, fondly called Papa Ayo Oritsejafor by many of his numerous admirers is the founding and Senior Pastor of Word of Life Bible Church, located in Warri, Nigeria. He became the national president of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) on the 7TH February 2005, a position he held for five years.. He was elected President of CAN, Christian Association of Nigeria. As a result of this, he became the first Pentecostal leader to hold the two positions simultaneously. He is married to Hellen Oritsejafor and they are blessed with many children in the Lord. In this interview, he speaks about the history of Itsekiri people and other topics:
what would you say is unique about the Itsekiri people of Warri kingdom?
First of all, it is very important to establish the fact that Christianity started in Nigeria in Warri kingdom. It is what the average Itsekiri man or woman knows but they don’t talk about it. One of the reasons they don’t talk about it is a lack of spirituality. The first church that was built in Nigeria was not in Abeokuta, Badagry or anywhere. It was built here in the 16th century. The ruins of it are still here.
The first Christian missionary that came here was the Roman Catholic. In fact, the first contact with a white man was here. The Itsekiri people are the first contact with the white man in Nigeria.
By the way, the second thing that many people in Itsekiri may not elaborate on is that Itsekiri is Yoruba. The Itsekiri language is a dialect of the Yoruba language. Itsekiri people migrated from Yorubaland. Some of them migrated directly from Ife. Some migrated from the riverine areas of Ijebu, and some migrated from Ondo. Some of them especially the ones that migrated from Ife, they migrated with the Ilaje. The Ilaje stopped at a point but the Itsekiri continued and they ended up here in Warri.
Now, a few of them came from Benin Kingdom. The Benin connection came from the palace. The palace connection is still Yoruba at the end of the day because the first Oba of Benin was a son of Oduduwa.
The first Olu of Warri was a first son of the Oba of Benin. That’s the Benin connection. The Itsekiri, when they moved here, they came with their Ife. The upland Yoruba called it Ifa. We are the waterside Yoruba. Our people will call the other Yoruba, Iroke. They called the Oyo people Iroke and other Yoruba Iroke but the Yoruba called them Ara Oke. This history is very important because they are dying away. In those days, the Ife which the mainstream Yoruba will call Ifa was the god of divination. The Ife had told the Itsekiri people that a prince would come and become their king. Therefore, they stayed without a king for a very long time, in fact for many years.
They were waiting for that prince, eventually this prince who was the first son of the Oba of Benin was a grandson of Oduduwa. He was very proud so he had a lot of problems with Benin chiefs. They were going to kill him. His father who was the Oba of Benin, you know he was supposed to be the Oba of Benin after his father, but for his own protection, his father had to get him out of Benin Kingdom. He gave him about 70 chiefs. They smuggled him out, put him in a boat and they performed all kinds of rituals. They put him in a boat then sailed to Warri. When he ended up here, remember our own people were waiting for a prince, they have been waiting for years. When he arrived, they consulted their Ife again and the Ife says, “This is the prince”. So, that was how he became the first Olu of Warri. That was how the first Olu of Warri came about.
In those days, in the palace, in Warri kingdom, they used to speak Yoruba. The palace was 100% Yoruba. Don’t forget the Itsekiri language is a dialect of Yoruba land and therefore a Yoruba language as it is to this day. The Benin are not Yoruba; they are descendants of Oduduwa but the palace is Yoruba.
· History says Benin people came from Yoruba land?
That can’t be disputed. Some people will argue it but I don’t want to get into that, because that is not the point of discussion. We are discussing Itsekiri. However, it was the son of Oduduwa that moved to Benin and became king, according to history. It’s almost like our own history too. I don’t want to get into that side of it.
In fact, before the late Ooni of Ife passed away, some years back, they did this their Ifa and the Ifa lead him to an Itsekiri village, not far from here and gave details of it and they traced it and came to the village, the village is called Omadina. I am partially from there myself. The people already knew that they came from Ife. The people from Ife traced them to the village and got to them and there was a great re-union.
·
I was told that the Oni of Ife has a permanent chamber in the palace?
Yes, because we are the same. Chief Obafemi Awolowo’s last outing was here. Shortly before he died. His last outing was here when the late Olu of Warri was crowned. When he left here, he went home and passed away.
· Yes, I read it in his wife’s autobiography that when he wanted to go on the trip, he complained of being tired. His wife advised him to send people to represent him. He insisted that he must go there himself.
Yes, He came himself and it was the last outing after that, he passed. So, the connection was very strong. The Ooni of Ife came here and the Olu of Warri went there as well. You see the Itsekiiri made a big mistake by not emphasizing their Yorubaness. It’s unintentional though, they have down play their Yorubaness. The reason is because they migrated here and other peoples came and they mixed with them and they have almost forgotten who they are. They almost lost their identity. They are many Itsekiri today who don’t even know they are Yoruba. They have been here so long here, the Itsekiri have unintentionally almost lost their Yorubaness. They lost their identity when you move to a place and you are mixing with other people you start losing your identity. To a large extent in my opinion it as affected them. They needed to highlight that fact and this why I like what you are doing right now. I was very, very impressed years ago when Chief Abraham Adesanya who was the head of Afenifere, he knew all this history and he used to come out strongly in defense of the of the Itsekiiri. I was really very touched by what he would do and say personally, I don’t play with my Yorubaness. I am very proud of it.
· Maybe if you give us a little information about yourself that the public may not know.
My grandmother was originally from Owoh, from my mother side. My grandmother from my father side is partly from Ilaje. My wife is from Ado Ekiti. I was born in Lagos. I was born along Moloney Street. I am a real Isale Eko boy. I did my elementary school at Holy Cross. So to a large extent, I am a Lagosian. I have a church funny enough around Moloney, about 2 blocks from where I was born, where my parents lived, where I was raised. The church didn’t know when they acquired a property there, so when I went to preach in that church and because I was very rascally as a young boy, the very bad boys in that area, once they know that I am around, they will all come to church. They will gather around me. I am like one of their own. I always feel right at home. My people will try to drive them, I will say no, no, no don’t. I was exactly like them. They were certain names they used to call me then. I see myself as a Lagosian. But later I finally moved back home. I went to secondary school not in Warri here. I was so messed up in my ways until I gave my life to Christ. Then I went to study Theology at Baptist seminary at Ogbomosho. I went back to the west. My father even went to school in Ilesa he was an old boy of Ilesa Grammar school. I am Yoruba in every way. My mother also went to school in Abeokuta. Itsekiiri is Yoruba, everything about me is Yoruba. Let us look at the Itsekiiri language when you listen you will know that is Yoruba. If you want to say Good morning, I will say. Iro- Owuro Good afternoon, Ire-Osan Good evening, Ire Ale.
· That is Yoruba o.
Yes that is pure Yoruba. It’s just like any Yoruba dialect, just like Ijebu, Egba, Awori, Ijesha, it’s just different form of Yoruba, just a little deeper than the general Yoruba we all speak in Lagos.But, we all have our own dialect.
· It Is just like my people the Awori – they are the original settlers in Lagos. They came from Ife and migrated to Lagos, some of them went to Ado-Odo, Ota, Sango, they speak the general Yoruba language but they also have Awori dialect which is different from other dialects but still Yoruba language.
Yes, Other Yoruba may not be able to speak it but they will still be able to know and pick it, that this is Yoruba language. For example, my surname is Oritsejafor. In the upland Yoruba, you will say Oritsa alright which you call an idol. In Itsekiri dialect we will say Oritse. Oritse means Oluwa (lord) The Almighty God. He is not referring to an idol. In most Itsekiri name, you will see Oritse. My surname is Oritse-jafor. Now if you follow it very well, oritse-ja-for, je – ka – fo (laughter). Now you are getting it. It’s a Yoruba word. It means the lord allows us to speak. When you first hear it, you won’t know it’s a Yoruba word. God has allowed me to speak, that’s what it simply means. So it’s a Yoruba word. My name is a Yoruba word.
· Why is this so important sir?
Yes, it is very important for the world to know who the Itsekiri are. They are Yoruba. For example, in the whole of the Niger – Delta, we are the only people that has the title the Olu of Warri. “Olu” is a Yoruba title. If you are not a Yoruba king, you can’t answer that kind of title. You will never see another Olu in the whole of the Niger Delta.
· The Portuguese have some connection with the Itsekiri as well, can you throw more light on this sir?
Yes, the Portuguese were so close to the Itsekiri, so close to the extent that the king of Portugal who lived in Lisbon, 15th, 16th century ago was so close to the Olu of Warri. That he asked the Olu to send his son to him. He sent his son to Lisbon and he lived in the king’s palace. You know the white man looked down on the black man in those days, the white man felt every black man was inferior to him, but they didn’t treat the Itsekiri that way. If you read some of the Portuguese writings about the Itsekiri, they will tell you how well cultured they were. You will read some things; you will be shocked. Now when the prince got there, this is where I am going to shock you with this. The first African graduate was an Itsekiri. He was this prince.
· He was a graduate?
Yes, he went to the university while he was in Lisbon. He was to have gone to a seminary to become a Catholic priest but he could not handle that because of women issues. So he had to go to a regular university and he got a degree. When he finished, when he was coming home, the crown that the Olu of Warri uses today was made by the king in Lisbon in the 16th century and he put a cross on it. He made two; one for the king and one for his wife, the Olori. You the upland Yoruba call it Olori, we call them Olori here too.
He gathered the bishops and they prayed for him. They told him to go and evangelize his people. He came home, his Portuguese name was Dondomingo. But his Itsekiri name was Atuwase I, Now Atuwase II just passed. He was the elder brother of the present Olu. He was my very good friend; we were very close. The first Atuwase, his Portuguese name was Dondomingo and we have a Dondomingo school here. It was named after him. The school is there today to immortalize him. The crown the Olu of Warri is wearing now, the Olus have been wearing it since the 16th century.
· It must have been made of Gold?
No, it was made of precious stones and cross. This shows the connection with Christianity. When the prince got back and later became the Olu, he came with a Portuguese wife. He was killed, they didn’t like his Portuguese wife. In the 16th century that’s why I am telling you that Itsekiri had the first contact with the white man in Nigeria. He had children with his white wife. You know time has changed now and they’ve become very dark. For example, that my father’s photograph, you can see he is not dark skinned like me. My mother was very, dark. Itsekiri language also have a very strong connection with Portuguese, For example, the Portuguese called shoes sebatu. That’s what the Itsekiri call it till date. So there are some words that entered the Itsekiri dialect from there but they still kept the language, they did not lose it. In the general Yoruba language, you call rice Iresi, in Itsekiri it is Eroso, which is more Portuguese than Italian. The word Gold in Itsekiri is called Oro which is of Portuguese and Italian origin. They have some Italian connection too but Portuguese mostly. Historically, our people were heavy slave traders. They became middlemen to the white men, selling slaves. At a point the Olu of Warri became too powerful for the white man. In fact, one of the Olu was exiled to Calabar. Chief Nana was exiled to Ghana by the British. He lived in Kumasi. The Ghanaian, the Efik and Cross River had some connections with the Itsekiri because the Olu was exiled there for many years.
· let’s talk about you now. (laughter)
These are the many things that fascinates me. It’s an insight into who we are as a people.
· When did you give your life to Christ?
I gave my life to Christ in 1972, I had an incredible encounter that changed my whole life. I stopped drugs, my family couldn’t believe what had happened to me. In fact, one of my uncles drove from here to Ogbomosho just to see me to be sure. They called me out of the class one day and they said, your uncle is looking for you. He used to be a police commissioner. He looked at me and said “is this you?” He cried and I cried myself. He said “you mean God can do this?” I was studying theology in Ogbomosho as a changed man. He said “you in a seminary? Studying Bible? Studying theology, how on earth?” It was just too much for him. That was a lesson for him that God can change anybody. It taught me something too. Till today I never give up on anybody, I learnt that in my own life.
If God didn’t give up on me and was still able to change a man like me, then I don’t think there is anybody God cannot change. He can change anybody. Sometimes you read the Bible and you don’t think that those things were things that happened. You know until you meet people that it actually happens to. I mean it happened to me. You wouldn’t believe this but some of my friends of those days were shot by firing squad.
You know in those days, you must be very young, in the military times, if you are caught in armed robbery, you are shot by firing squad. The first group that were killed in Warri here were my friends. That should tell you the kind of life I had lived as a youngster. God has a plan for me. I can’t ever explain how I escaped that period. So many times I have ended with Jesus preaching the Bible. And then became the leader of all Christians in Nigeria from that humble beginning. It’s hard to comprehend.
When I was growing up in Lagos, only Carter Bridge was there, we have all kinds of bridge now. There used to be a place close to the whole Kingsway. We had a place we called key side. I lived right there with all kinds of people.
Where you have all those bridges now. There was nothing like that. I am just trying to tell you how lost I was. I was totally lost. That God will take a man from the streets and show forth the glory in him, some times when I think about it, it’s hard for my mind to comprehend but it all happened to me.
· What are some of the experiences you had in CAN and PFN as president of both Organizations that you will like to share with us? And how do you think CAN and PFN can be more effective in the society?
There is a huge problem in Christianity today and it has been there. That problem is disunity. It’s a huge problem. It has been that way for them not just in Nigeria. Why? I just can’t explain. Across and around the world, that is what gave Islam an inroad into so many places. Do you know that Turkey was 100% Christian? It used to be called Constantinople. Today Christians in Turkey are 0.02. It’s now a Muslim nation and that 0.02 percent are under serious persecution. It’s horrible. Do you know that Egypt was a Christian nation for over 1,000 years before Islam got there? In fact, as that time, the Christians scholars, the most important city for studying scripture was Alexander in Egypt. It was the center of Christian study in the world at that time the pharaohs were not Arab. They were African for a thousand years Christianity thrived. What happened? Division, they were fighting each other, jealous of each other, all kind of petty squabbles’ and the Arab moved in.
· When you were CAN president I actually interviewed a man of God who spent half of the interview attacking you. It was obvious that he wished he was in your shoes and was very jealous.
That’s the problem. It was the problem even before then. We go on with disunity. I can’t sit here and condemn all Muslims. There are good people among them. They take advantage of our disunity and they still take advantage of it till today. Christians just refuse to come together. This is why it is so difficult to answer your question, what can be done to make these organizations better and be more effective and be more productive. The most difficult problem is disunity. If the church in Nigeria and all over the world can find unity, the church will become more effective, stronger and much more productive.
You know that hospital come through the church, schools came through the church. All the good things of life came through the church. So what happened? What happened in the church? It Is this, you are working for a way to pull me down and I am working for ways to pull you down. I am looking for your fault and you are looking for my faults. So we have no time to concentrate on doing things that will bring progress.
If we can put aside our differences and come together we can begin to concentrate on how we can improve the society and our lives, we can impact this nation much more. We bring in better things and greater things. One person may be Anglican the other person may be Pentecostal, who cares? The belief in Jesus that is the issue. If they can remember that something brings them together, make them one. When Boko Haram was killing people in the North, they don’t care which denomination you belong to, they will kill you all the same. They only need to know you are Christian that will be enough to kill you.
Jesus said, by this shall all men known that ye are my disciples if ye have love, one for another. If we don’t practice that we are fake disciples. If we are real disciples, we will love each other in spite of denominational differences. There is no perfect human being, there is only one perfect God. He is able to bring two imperfect people together. We all come to him with our imperfections. I will always have faults, you will always have fault, but God doesn’t have any faults. If we can put our eyes on him- and take our eyes from my fault and your faults, This world will become a paradise for all to live in.
https://yemiolakitans..com/2019/12/itsekiri-is-yoruba-papa-ayo-oritsajafor.html?m=1

One can't ignore the linguistics similarities -- there are just too many for it to have been a result of colonization.

http://ngr.ng/itsekiri-enlightenment/

we keep telling them that they are all yorubas..

This man should stick to preaching.. that's his specialisd field

Facts.

Etinosa1234:
This man should stick to preaching.. that's his specialisd field

But you read where he said you guys Are Yorubas..

Juliusmalema:


But you read where he said you guys Are Yorubas..

So what makes him right... Is he a historian or he was present in the year 800AD that makes it right...

Its like u are having a hard time minding ur own business because when we bring Igbos into this, u'll be the first to cry foul... Stick to Igbos and stop interfering in Benin issues

I have explained to u times without number that Benin are not Yoruba and u think that the words of an itsekiri man is now fact for history, u need to get ur head checked...

Stop interfering in Benin historical issues if u cant stand being told abt Igbo

Etinosa1234:


So what makes him right... Is he a historian or he was present in the year 800AD that makes it right...

Its like u are having a hard time minding ur own business because when we bring Igbos into this, u'll be the first to cry foul... Stick to Igbos and stop interfering in Benin issues

I have explained to u times without number that Benin are not Yoruba and u think that the words of an itsekiri man is now fact for history, u need to get ur head checked...

Stop interfering in Benin historical issues if u cant stand being told abt Igbo

But Ayo is an old man somehow, there might be elements of truth.

Juliusmalema:



But Ayo is an old man somehow, there might be elements of truth.

Old age doesn’t equate to wisdom or knowledge in all things

What would u say of lai mohammed or buhari that lies to us everyday

Juliusmalema:


But you read where he said you guys Are Yorubas..

He said their monarchy is Yoruba not the own Bini, and that the prince sent to rule over Itshekiri people was just a Yoruba man ruling over a group of Yoruba people from various Yoruba clans.

ABULARdotCOM:


He said their monarchy is Yoruba not the own Bini, and that the prince sent to rule over Itshekiri people was just a Yoruba man ruling over a group of Yoruba people from various Yoruba clans.

Quickly... tell me the origin of oduduwa according to eyewitness accounts

Etinosa1234:


Quickly... tell me the origin of oduduwa according to eyewitness accounts

Why not lead by telling me the origin of your great-grandfather according to eyewitness accounts.

Etinosa1234:


Old age doesn’t equate to wisdom or knowledge in all things

What would u say of lai mohammed or buhari that lies to us everyday

I don't know why you guys get angry whenever things like this issue of Bini-Yoruba are been said. You will just see Bini man turn to anger and lion even ready to attack you but truth be told are you guys not related.

ABULARdotCOM:


Why not lead by telling me the origin of your great-grandfather according to eyewitness accounts.

There are eyewitness reports of my grandfather because there are people that met him and knew what he did.. Even my grandfather first child met him

So can u give me eyewitness reports or is it the fairytale that Oduduwa that skydived to become king according to Ife or the Oduduwa that trekked all the way from Mecca to Nigeria according to oyo that u believe is true...

Surely there must be eyewitness reports abt the first Ooni of ife or it's all a lie

Juliusmalema:



I don't know why you guys get angry whenever things like this issue of Bini-Yoruba are been said. You will just see Bini man turn to anger and lion even ready to attack you but truth be told are you guys not related.

The same way u get angry when we talk abt Igbo is the same way we get angry anytime someone tries to spread the fake theory of our monarchy...

Don't blame me...U also see it

Etinosa1234:


There are eyewitness reports of my grandfather because there are people that met him and knew what he did.. Even my grandfather first child met him

So can u give me eyewitness reports or is it the fairytale that Oduduwa that skydived to become king according to Ife or the Oduduwa that trekked all the way from Mecca to Nigeria according to oyo that u believe is true...

Surely there must be eyewitness reports abt the first Ooni of ife or it's all a lie

You have not done justice to my request. Where is the eye witness? Do you have the Facebook, Twitter or Nairaland page of this eye witness?

You have to give me a source that can confirm his origin or I don't believe that your great-grandfather existed!

ABULARdotCOM:


You have not done justice to my request. Where is the eye witness? Do you have the Facebook, Twitter or Nairaland page of this eye witness?

You have to give me a source that can confirm his origin or I don't believe that your great-grandfather existed!

U be clown ahswear... Was there Nairaland, Facebook or Twitter in the 1800s... This guy Na mumu
Lol... I made the first demand but u still can't answer me...


Are u Telling me that there are no credible reports abt the first Ooni of ife?
. A king for that matter...

Then tell me what makes the myth abt Oduduwa true...

I can post 5 different accounts of Oduduwa here if u want...

But u can never get different account of my grandfather...

When u can prove that Oduduwa existed, I'll show u proof my great grandfather existed

Etinosa1234:


The same way u get angry when we talk abt Igbo is the same way we get angry anytime someone tries to spread the fake theory of our monarchy...

Don't blame me...U also see it

But are you guys related?

Juliusmalema:



But are you guys related?

We are not related... We just had contact with each ..The same way we also had contacted with the idah pple... The tribes we are related to are the ones that claim to have Benin origin like esan, etsako, auchi...

Read Benin history,.. There is no account that Benin is related to Yoruba

Etinosa1234:


We are not related... We just had contact with each ..The same way we also had contacted with the idah pple... The tribes we are related to are the ones that claim to have Benin origin like esan, etsako, auchi...

Read Benin history,.. There is no account that Benin is related to Yoruba

How did Bini arrive to occupy their present location

Juliusmalema:


How did Bini arrive to occupy their present location

We were always there... We don't believe in the talk that we moved from place to place

There is no credible reports that Benin migrated from somewhere

That's why the claim by Egharevba that Benin migrated from Sudan was trashed..

If u believe that Igbos migrated from the Jews... That's ur choice... Not every tribe believes such... Not even Yorubas

Etinosa1234:


U be clown ahswear... Was there Nairaland, Facebook or Twitter in the 1800s... This guy Na mumu
Lol... I made the first demand but u still can't answer me...


Are u Telling me that there are no credible reports abt the first Ooni of ife?
. A king for that matter...

Then tell me what makes the myth abt Oduduwa true...

I can post 5 different accounts of Oduduwa here if u want...

But u can never get different account of my grandfather...

When u can prove that Oduduwa existed, I'll show u proof my great grandfather existed

You are uncultured and lack manners! You don't have to throw insults about to get your point across.

Let me help you with the puzzle: the fact that you are here on Nairaland is proof enough that your great-grandfather existed. Same way that ooni and other Yoruba obas including your oba are here and all of them regard Oodua as their ancestor is a fact that Oodua existed. Whether he flew from the sky, came out from the vagina of a woman, or the yansh of a man is not my concern. The fact is that he left roots on ground for all (who want to see) to see.

Oodua roots and the influence he left behind in still acknowledge across West Africa. Now, why would I take people from a small kingdom serious. You couldn't even influence your immediate neighbors so that we can all see and acknowledge how great you claim you were.

Hausas people had one the biggest empires in the history of Africa, and their empire fell and a large chunk of the empire was conquered by Fulani people. But today we all still the influence they had, and nobody can deny them their history.

You guys go about making up different stories about yourselves, but the present proofs otherwise. You were this and that, but the present proofs you just ran a normal kingdom. Maybe, a kingdom that was greatly influenced by western knowledge. But that wouldn't remove the fact that it was just a normal kingdom.

Please make your argument logical and no need of the insult -- we ( maybe me sha) are just educating ourselves here.

ABULARdotCOM:

[s]
You are uncultured and lack manners! You don't have to throw insults about to get your point across.

Let me help you with the puzzle: the fact that you are here on Nairaland is proof enough that your great-grandfather existed. Same way that ooni and other Yoruba obas including your oba are here and all of them regard Oodua as their ancestor is a fact that Oodua existed. Whether he flew from the sky, came out from the vagina of a woman, or the yansh of a man is not my concern. The fact is that he left roots on ground for all (who want to see) to see.

Oodua roots and the influence he left behind in still acknowledge across West Africa. Now, why would I take people from a small kingdom serious. You couldn't even influence your immediate neighbors so that we can all see and acknowledge how great you claim you were.

Hausas people had one the biggest empires in the history of Africa, and their empire fell and a large chunk of the empire was conquered by Fulani people. But today we all still the influence they had, and nobody can deny them their history.

You guys go about making up different stories about yourselves, but the present proofs otherwise. You were this and that, but the present proofs you just ran a normal kingdom. Maybe, a kingdom that was greatly influenced by western knowledge. But that wouldn't remove the fact that it was just a normal kingdom.

Please make your argument logical and no need of the insult -- we ( maybe me sha) are just educating ourselves here.[/s]

My main aim is that Oduduwa story was a myth...
If u are talking abt legacy, my dad and his family members are proof that my great grandfather existed... We didn't fall from the sky like ur Oduduwa..

Now... U guys have different stories abt the origin of Oduduwa.. Most point to the fact that Oduduwa was never born a Yoruba man rather he was naturalised..

Ife believe that Oduduwa fell from the sky

Oyo believe that Oduduwa trekked all the way from mecca

Some Yoruba believe that Oduduwa was a wife of Obatala

Some believe that Oduduwa was a female and was related to the earth called Ile

Some believe that he is the son of lamurudu who is the son of king kisra..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://face2faceafrica.com/article/oduduwa-the-prince-of-a-foreign-land-who-brought-the-yoruba-religion-with-him-to-the-aborigines&ved=2ahUKEwiz0NfIjsPsAhXxt3EKHefXAuEQFjABegQIARAE&usg=AOvVaw2bTQTJEloAtKo3PwCcwwbK


So if all of this is true... How does the Benin monarchy happen to be Yoruba?

If all of u are from the same Oduduwa, why are u guys killing ur self.. having seperate rulers .. making empires with the blood of ur brothers..

If all of u are from one man... Wil u say that Yoruba tribe is just 1000 years old?


Abt Benin history... If u are confused abt Benin Empire, Goan read books abt it... Even the Europeans came and had many reports of the Empire... can't say the same for Oduduwa
The pics below are excerpts from historians...
First one
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24520425?seq=1

Second and third
Esu Elegbara: Chance, Uncertainly In Yoruba Mythology p15

Etinosa1234

Definitely, you are right! Those kings back had to makeup some myth about their ancestry to retain their throne and avoid anyone contesting it with them. Presently, there are a large chunk of humans on earth who believe that some dead guy rose up from death and somehow floated into the sky. So myths are not something new in the world.

As I stated earlier where Oodua came from is not my headache, because it is a hard thing to proof! As for me, you are free to claim whatever you like about his origin. Same way hardcore Yoruba people are also free to state theirs.

Now let's come to the present and drop history we can't proof! If Bini kingdom was anything close to what you guys claim it to be, why couldn't you influence smaller tribes in the SS to speak Edo language like Hausa people did with the northerners? Let's assume you guys didn't value conquest, why didnt the smaller tribes in SS pickup the language of their "very strong" neighbor like the northerners did for Hausa?

Killings among Yoruba people is a normal among people who occupy big empires! The Romans did it! Same with the Arabs, and the Chinese, and those who actually had an empire. You know in empires, there were so many egos who had alot instrument of violence and many didn't give a Bleep about laws back then. So, it wouldn't be hard to find one or two generals who feels he deserves to be king because they control the largest army. Not forgetting scheming lieutenants who feel they should be the head, because the one there less human than them.

I know you guys wouldn't understand this, because none of you actually ran an empire. But if it is to make mouth about the past you can't proof and/or the one that doesn't reflect on the present, you would be at the forefront making noise.

The failure of your so called great Benin kingdom is the subject of this thread. Shouldn't a small Itshekiri clan have been made (or influenced if you didn't have the stomach for conquest) to speak Edo language?

ABULARdotCOM:
Etinosah1234

[s]Definitely, you are right! Those kings back had to makeup some myth about their ancestry to retain their throne and avoid anyone contesting it with them. Presently, there are a large chunk of humans on earth who believe that some dead guy rose up from death and somehow floated into the sky. So myths are not something new in the world.

As I stated earlier where Oodua came from is not my headache, because it is a hard thing to proof! As for me, you are free to claim whatever you like about his origin. Same way hardcore Yoruba people are also free to state theirs.

Now let's come to the present and drop history we can't proof! If Bini kingdom was anything close to what you guys claim it to be, why couldn't you influence smaller tribes in the SS to speak Edo language like Hausa people did with the northerners? Let's assume you guys didn't value conquest, why didnt the smaller tribes in SS pickup the language of their "very strong" neighbor like the northerners did for Hausa?

Killings among Yoruba people is a normal among people who occupy big empires! The Romans did it! Same with the Arabs, and the Chinese, and those who actually had an empire. You know in empires, there were so many egos who had alot instrument of violence and many didn't give a Bleep about laws back then. So, it wouldn't be hard to find one or two generals who feels he deserves to be king because they control the largest army. Not forgetting scheming lieutenants who feel they should be the head, because the one there less human than them.

I know you guys wouldn't understand this, because none of you actually ran an empire. But if it is to make mouth about the past you can't proof and/or the one that doesn't reflect on the present, you would be at the forefront making noise.

The failure of your so called great Benin kingdom is the subject of this thread. Shouldn't a small Itshekiri clan have been made (or influenced if you didn't have the stomach for conquest) to speak Edo language?[/s]

See premium tears... ..

As it is, u have agreed that Oduduwa was not a Yoruba man which invariably means that u have accepted that the Benin monarchy is not Yoruba... That's good ... It seems that u are learning from me...

Now... The Benin Empire didn't conquer with the aim of subjugation.. rather they controlled territories in other to control commerce Esp with the Europeans... The Europeans that came then compared Benin and London calling Benin a very beautiful place and London a place for robbers.. that goes to tell u how beautiful the Benin Empire was.

The Benin Empire ruled and dominated most of the defunct Midwest even up to Lagos and some parts of Kogi(idah)... But made most of the defeated tribes keep their language...

Look at Olaudah Equaino for example, he said that Benin citizen of Igbo ethnicity... What abt
Nnamdi Azikiwe that wrote in his biography that he has Benin origins... That is a clear example of how Benin ruled wide... Presently, most of Edo state, some parts of delta, some tribes in Rivers trace their history to Benin ... That goes a long way to explain why Benin didn't change tribes language.. Even ekiti, akure and owo were under the Benin Empire at most point according to eyewitness reports

.

Besides Benin are not the only empire that failed to force language on their subjects
First.. the Romans.. Britain, Israel and so many more never spoke Roman language as first language when they were under the Roman Empire
The Greek Empire never forced Greek on its subjects.
The Japanese Empire failed in forcing Japanese on the Chinese and Korean
The Germans failed in forcing German on the African colonies

Now... In the Oyo Empire, apart from the tribes that are originally Yoruba, which non Yoruba tribe speaks Yoruba now?
Is it Dahomey?

If u all are from Oduduwa, why didn't u guys have a common language name up till 1850s... Instead of being Oyo man,ibadan man, ijebu man
Mtcheew

Etinosa1234

Funny you, if Oodua was not a Yoruba man, then who is? Today, you go to the western world and they tell after spending some time on their soil and you can pass a language test then you are a citizen. But Yoruba people have been doing that even before they knew how to build their ships. So, why should Oodua be denied his citizenship of being Yoruba? We are not that petty in Yoruba land. How many present day people can claim they are 100% from their tribe. One should just factor in the conquests and free migration that happened back then before beating his chest.

Among the present day Yoruba people, you would find people who have various ethnic blood running through their veins. What would you call a child whose parent is not Yoruba and the other parent is, but born in Yorubaland. The child understand Yoruba and knows Yoruba history? You are too simplistic about ethnicity. Have you done your DNA test? You might be surprised that you too have some Yoruba blood running through your veins. And I might just mistakenly have some Nupe blood running through mine. We all are too intermingled together not to mix blood together.

You see the funny excuse you guys go about giving about you audio Benin kingdom. How you claim a kingdom was great if didn't have any conquest? Subjugation was how they counted scores back then. Okay let us forget subjugation, what of language influence? As a greater kingdom that you lot go about claiming, your language would have been the lingua Franca for those small ethnic groups in the SS. Or even your names! For instance a lot Yoruba adopted Islamic religion and names back then because it was cool. Islam scholars brought writing, arithmetic, and even some "strange" medicine to Yoruba land. A lot of us in Nigeria today are picking up English names and religion today for the same reason. So, what influence did your so called "great" kingdom have in your environs!

What proof do you have in this present world (or real world sef) that you ruled over these lands keep claiming? All the lands you claim you ruled over are actually controlled by other people, and they don't even speak your language. Then what kind of rule did you rule? Can you go to Lagos and speak Edo to sample of 100 people and be confident that just 30 of those people would understand you. Or go to Anioma or Esan in your immediate environment and speak to the same sample of people? If you can't do this, then you are just making noise.

Actually, you are wrong about the Romans, Greeks and others.

The Greeks had so much influence that the new testament that billions of people carry about today was first written in Greek. The Romans had Greek as one of its official languages and Greek literature actually educated early Romans. Most of the Roman philosophers always quoted Greek geniuses like Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. So they all had to learn Greek first to be great, and later they out-grew the Greek civilization.

The main language the Romans used was Latin. The university of ibadan uses Latin to write its Motto. Guess who brought Latin to Yoruba land? The British! All Roman colonies had to learn Latin to become intelligent. Many of them were barbarians when the Romans colonized them. Despite being neighbors! That is the influence you guys would have had if you were anything great. The British just stopped using Latin (the then language of the intellectuals) when they wanted to spread Christianity among their illiterate population. They had to write it in Vernacular (something that has evolved to the present day English language). The cool thing is that all former Roman colonies still reference Latin language.

That is the excuse you guys go about giving against Oyo Empire. Who told you majority or all of the people that call themselves Yoruba today were actually Yoruba? What DNA test did you do to confirm this? If there was no great conquest and prosperity, how come alot of people call themselves Yorubas or even Hausas? "Na so Yoruba women sabi give birth reach" Look at the population and landmass of the Yoruba people and tell me that is organic! Same thing with Hausa people too!

If you understand Yoruba, go to YouTube and go search for any video in Fon (Dahomey language) and tell me you wouldn't here some Yoruba in it. Same thing with their names! The same reason we have Yoruba people, and people that bear Yoruba names in your Edo! That is an evidence to you that we were there!

How can everyone from any ethnic group come from a single man! We was just a good leader that helped Yoruba people prosper. That's why we give him and his throne respect. Same thing we do for other people like Sango, Ogun, Awolowo and others. Only fools forgot there heros!

Those names are just clannish names that are already fading away in this present time. Before the adoption of Yoruba as the common name for all Yoruboid clans, it was omo Oduduwa (children of Oduduwa). That doesn't mean every Yoruba person was fathered by Oodua o!

Etinosa1234:


So what makes him right... Is he a historian or he was present in the year 800AD that makes it right...

Its like u are having a hard time minding ur own business because when we bring Igbos into this, u'll be the first to cry foul... Stick to Igbos and stop interfering in Benin issues

I have explained to u times without number that Benin are not Yoruba and u think that the words of an itsekiri man is now fact for history, u need to get ur head checked...

Stop interfering in Benin historical issues if u cant stand being told abt Igbo

LMAO... Now , you know he is not a historian but you swallow everything Zik wrote about Onicha origin having root in Bini hook,line and sinker. Oga , una be Yoruba. Stop being ignorant!
Cc.Etinosa 1234 Cc.

IDENNAA:



LMAO... Now , you know he is not a historian but you swallow everything Zik wrote about Onicha origin having root in Bini hook,line and sinker. Oga , una be Yoruba. Stop being ignorant!
Cc.Etinosa 1234 Cc.

Trash... When Zik said he has Benin origins, he
1) didn't say or write it under duress
2) was telling HIS own family history in the biography

But Ayo oritsejafor is not a Benin person so can u explain how he'll know more than the Benin pple

The fact that u are calling someone ignorant even with the glaring differences in culture shows a lot abt ur IQ
..

ABULARdotCOM:
Etinmosa1234

[s]Funny you, if Oodua was not a Yoruba man, then who is? Today, you go to the western world and they tell after spending some time on their soil and you can pass a language test then you are a citizen. But Yoruba people have been doing that even before they knew how to build their ships. So, why should Oodua be denied his citizenship of being Yoruba? We are not that petty in Yoruba land. How many present day people can claim they are 100% from their tribe. One should just factor in the conquests and free migration that happened back then before beating his chest.

Among the present day Yoruba people, you would find people who have various ethnic blood running through their veins. What would you call a child whose parent is not Yoruba and the other parent is, but born in Yorubaland. The child understand Yoruba and knows Yoruba history? You are too simplistic about ethnicity. Have you done your DNA test? You might be surprised that you too have some Yoruba blood running through your veins. And I might just mistakenly have some Nupe blood running through mine. We all are too intermingled together not to mix blood together.

You see the funny excuse you guys go about giving about you audio Benin kingdom. How you claim a kingdom was great if didn't have any conquest? Subjugation was how they counted scores back then. Okay let us forget subjugation, what of language influence? As a greater kingdom that you lot go about claiming, your language would have been the lingua Franca for those small ethnic groups in the SS. Or even your names! For instance a lot Yoruba adopted Islamic religion and names back then because it was cool. Islam scholars brought writing, arithmetic, and even some "strange" medicine to Yoruba land. A lot of us in Nigeria today are picking up English names and religion today for the same reason. So, what influence did your so called "great" kingdom have in your environs!

What proof do you have in this present world (or real world sef) that you ruled over these lands keep claiming? All the lands you claim you ruled over are actually controlled by other people, and they don't even speak your language. Then what kind of rule did you rule? Can you go to Lagos and speak Edo to sample of 100 people and be confident that just 30 of those people would understand you. Or go to Anioma or Esan in your immediate environment and speak to the same sample of people? If you can't do this, then you are just making noise.

Actually, you are wrong about the Romans, Greeks and others.

The Greeks had so much influence that the new testament that billions of people carry about today was first written in Greek. The Romans had Greek as one of its official languages and Greek literature actually educated early Romans. Most of the Roman philosophers always quoted Greek geniuses like Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. So they all had to learn Greek first to be great, and later they out-grew the Greek civilization.

The main language the Romans used was Latin. The university of ibadan uses Latin to write its Motto. Guess who brought Latin to Yoruba land? The British! All Roman colonies had to learn Latin to become intelligent. Many of them were barbarians when the Romans colonized them. Despite being neighbors! That is the influence you guys would have had if you were anything great. The British just stopped using Latin (the then language of the intellectuals) when they wanted to spread Christianity among their illiterate population. They had to write it in Vernacular (something that has evolved to the present day English language). The cool thing is that all former Roman colonies still reference Latin language.

That is the excuse you guys go about giving against Oyo Empire. Who told you majority or all of the people that call themselves Yoruba today were actually Yoruba? What DNA test did you do to confirm this? If there was no great conquest and prosperity, how come alot of people call themselves Yorubas or even Hausas? "Na so Yoruba women sabi give birth reach" Look at the population and landmass of the Yoruba people and tell me that is organic! Same thing with Hausa people too!

If you understand Yoruba, go to YouTube and go search for any video in Fon (Dahomey language) and tell me you wouldn't here some Yoruba in it. Same thing with their names! The same reason we have Yoruba people, and people that bear Yoruba names in your Edo! That is an evidence to you that we were there!

How can everyone from any ethnic group come from a single man! We was just a good leader that helped Yoruba people prosper. That's why we give him and his throne respect. Same thing we do for other people like Sango, Ogun, Awolowo and others. Only fools forgot there heros!

Those names are just clannish names that are already fading away in this present time. Before the adoption of Yoruba as the common name for all Yoruboid clans, it was omo Oduduwa (children of Oduduwa). That doesn't mean every Yoruba person was fathered by Oodua o![/s]

Trash...stay on the topic... If u want to learn abt Benin history, read books... Fairytales don't sell this days...

Was Oduduwa born a Yoruba man?

Etinosa1234:


Trash...stay on the topic... If u want to learn abt Benin history, read books... Fairytales don't sell this days...

Was Oduduwa born a Yoruba man?

This was where our argument began from, so read my previous replies. Thank you.

ABULARdotCOM:


This was where our argument began from, so read my previous replies. Thank you.

So lemme use ur argument...
According to u
What would you call a child whose parent is not Yoruba and the other parent is, but born in Yorubaland. The child understand Yoruba and knows Yoruba history? You are too simplistic about ethnicity.

Since this is ur logic, then what is ur reason for saying Benin has Yoruba monarchy?
After all Eweka was born and brought up in Benin,... Clearly had minimal interaction with his father according to Benin traditional history

Etinosa1234:


So lemme use ur argument...
According to u
What would you call a child whose parent is not Yoruba and the other parent is, but born in Yorubaland. The child understand Yoruba and knows Yoruba history? You are too simplistic about ethnicity.

Since this is ur logic, then what is ur reason for saying Benin has Yoruba monarchy?
After all Eweka was born and brought up in Benin,... Clearly had minimal interaction with his father according to Benin traditional history

Because Eweka was Yoruba does not stop him from being Edo or Bini or whatever you guys call yourselves theses days. Everything is about opinion! Yoruba historian keep hammering the fact that a Yoruba prince came to your kingdom to father a child and he supervised that the child and his offsprings keep the throne. But you somehow don't agree with this, abi?

I personally don't like dabbling into history I can't prove, honestly. Who can confidently say what the true account was but knowing this things sometimes helps us in some ways sha.

Then do you agree that Eweka was a Yoruba-Bini prince or Yoruba prince born in Bini?