ultron12345:


Is it MTN's duty to pay for your healthcare?

Tax is okay.
Set up a database for all Nigerians and tax them.
7% healthcare tax on all salaries to get something similar to UK's NHS.

Assuming 80M economically active Nigerians earn 30K monthly ON AVERAGE (in reality, the figure is much higher). 7% tax on that would generate over 2 trillion Naira annually for just healthcare. In reality, that figure might go up to 4 trillion.

the money is not the companies income buy u get less 10 percent of the value of call time the the funds transfered to your E heath accounts attached to your bvn and phone number....so when u are sick u only submit your phone number and tump print to see a doctor...

TransAtlanticEx:
Cheap credit in a country that don't have enough fx revenues and an import dependent nation abi?
Or you don't know MPC rate is a tool used to mop up liquidity so as to diminish demand for fx and curb inflation abi?
Oshey financial expert...
Dunce

Liquidity ko , water ni.


Imagine how fast the economy will grow if people can buy things on credit.


What is the purpose of mopping up liquidity when there's so much room for expansion.

A typical example are the working class, business men like you.

Why the hell can't you get a loan at 5 percent to allow you expand your business, plus buy a car , house on credit?

There's nothing to mop up in a country with deficits everywhere.

Solutions are simple and glaring

Cheap credit
Tax base expansion
Industries , extreme capitalism
Educated populace.

Now ask yourselves how do we fit in everything into an economic model that would work

No complex solutions

Why do people call for the heads of companies that have managed to make profit in Nigeria especially when the men championing them are blacks.......... Today every body wants to take down MTN, Dangote , BUA ..................... Its like secretly We want people who set up ventures to fail............ Yesterday, Bode George was echoed saying Tinubus so collects 10% of alphabeta revenue, as if Bode George has been Governor he wont institute the same

Nigsrdumb:



Liquidity ko , water ni.


Imagine how fast the economy will grow if people can buy things on credit.


What is the purpose of mopping up liquidity when there's so much room for expansion.

A typical example are the working class, business men like you.

Why the hell can't you get a loan at 5 percent to allow you expand your business, plus buy a car , house on credit?

There's nothing to mop up in a country with deficits everywhere.

What you mean by if people buy things on credit is called "access to credit",not cheap credit and it is not the government's place to dictate to financial institutions who to give credit or not.
The purpose of mopping up liquidity is to curb inflation and protect or fx reserve.
If you give me cheap loan at 5%,I might want to buy a new mercedes because the credit is so cheap or want to import some stuff,buy property abroad,etc..
What that means is I will take that naira and dump it with CBN through my banks to give me dollar for those things.
Multiply this effect by the number of people that will take this 5% loan and tell me what will happen to our meagre $35B reserve.
But a high mpc rate takes away all this impulse spending and make sure you are buying or importing what you really need,so as to protect our reserve.
So much room for expansion my ass

ojesymsym:
Why would you want to punish a company because they are making profit. This won't fly.
The national insurance scheme has to be expanded in some way, but that will mean having a strong database

Even the most insane coup plotters in a kangaroo state can never impose such a hopeless decree on companies that create jobs, pay huge taxes to the government and provide much needed services in their country. I am flabbergasted at some comments people make on this forum.

ahiboilandgas:
the money is not the companies income buy u get less 10 percent of the value of call time the the funds transfered to your E heath accounts attached to your bvn and phone number....so when u are sick u only submit your phone number and tump print to see a doctor...

what now happens to abokis that recharge 50 naira a month?
Don't you see that this sovereign wealth will be benefitting some that don't contribute much at the expense of large contributors?
This is another socialist idea and must be crushed now before it even germinates
Pay your hospital bills or die,very simple.

TransAtlanticEx:
what now happens to abokis that recharge 50 naira a month?
Don't you see that this sovereign wealth will be benefitting some that don't contribute much at the expense of large contributors?
This is another socialist idea and must be crushed now before it even germinates
Pay your hospital bills or die,very simple.

it not compulsory...u must accept or reject contributing at point of recharging .....

TransAtlanticEx:
what now happens to abokis that recharge 50 naira a month?
Don't you see that this sovereign wealth will be benefitting some that don't contribute much at the expense of large contributors?
This is another socialist idea and must be crushed now before it even germinates
Pay your hospital bills or die,very simple.

they attend over crowded govt hospitals or drink agbo....

ahiboilandgas:
it not compulsory...u must accept or reject contributing at point of recharging .....

No.
So long as the people know there is a sovereign wealth for health and start seeing government structures that came from the proceeds of this trustfund and some people getting healthcare for free while others don't,they would want to benefit whether they contribute or not and if you deny them access,they will cry foul and start spinning conspiracy theories and probably disturb communal peace and spark violence.
Why create this scenario in the first place when you can simply tell them to pay their bills or die?

iboboyswag:


God would bless you even more. I was speaking with someone recently and this was exactly what was on the table.

Critically, the structure of elections for us as a country would cause us to continue on this path of mediocrity in leadership just because of some sentimental voting pattern of the majority of the people.

Even the United States which is seen as the bedrock of modern democracy still have a failsafe mechanism to checkmate any charlatan aspiring to the highest office in the land... The Electoral College!

Exactly. Even the chinese system seems to have solved this problem and we are seeing the results today.

One can't believe it isn't right for just any random person to decide who pilots a plane, but believe it's right for just any random person to decide who pilots the affairs of society.

President should emerge based on performance and not mere popularity. Leaders should be able to plan for Te next generation and not just the next election.

We can try an adaptation of the Chinese system.

Let everyone interested write exams testing general knowledge, economics, administration, science, business etc . Only the top 5% should be admitted into the civil service. We don't want stupid people who believe the president of Nigeria can increase global oil prices or make $1 equal to N1.

Those that succeed in entering the civil service will then be given streets or small sections of people to administer. After a given period of time, performance is evaluated based on crime rate, socioeconomic indices, economic growth etc. Those that fail are kicked out and those that pass will be sent to administer villages. After a period of time, performance is evaluated again, based on economic growth and all sorts of socioeconomic factors. Those who fail get kicked out and those who pass move on. From village, to ward, to local government, to another local government, to senatorial district, to another senatorial district, and another senatorial district, then to state, to another state, and another state, then geopolitical zones, to another geopolitical zone, to another geopolitical zones. All these while, only those who pass the strictest and toughest evaluations of performance move on while those that fail are kicked out. Then to the Senate and then to a 20-man executive committee and then to a 7-man presidential committee.

Tell me how you won't get good leaders like this. You'll get good, exceptional and experienced leaders. Not people who will come in and use first tenure to make all sorts of silly mistakes with the excuse that "we are new to the job"

The presidential committee made up of the 7 best of best who have scaled through decades of the toughest and strictest performance evaluations, with decades of experience, who will have managed total populations and economies larger than many countries, will make decisions together. From here, a leader is selected who will work with the remainng 6 committee members.

The country should be run like a company, based on merit. We all know not just anyone can run a $1B company but we still think just any random person can run a $500B economy like Nigeria. Just as a CEO has to rise through the ranks from the bottom to top based on performance, so too should local government chairman, governor's, presidents etc

ahiboilandgas:
they attend over crowded govt hospitals or drink agbo....

But they'll be the first to bring out dagger say government don give infidels free hospital while they don't have any and commence pogrom.

TransAtlanticEx:
What you mean by if people buy things on credit is called "access to credit",not cheap credit and it is not the government's place to dictate to financial institutions who to give credit or not.
The purpose of mopping up liquidity is to curb inflation and protect or fx reserve.
If you give me cheap loan at 5%,I might want to buy a new mercedes because the credit is so cheap or want to import some stuff,buy property abroad,etc..
What that means is I will take that naira and dump it with CBN through my banks to give me dollar for those things.
Multiply this effect by the number of people that will take this 5% loan and tell me what will happen to our meagre $35B reserve.
But a high mpc rate takes away all this impulse spending and make sure you are buying or importing what you really need,so as to protect our reserve.
So much room for expansion my ass

Off course it's not the governments responsibility to dictate mpc, my question is why are they more protective of Forex preservation than expanding the economy internally?

The answer is simple, over reliance on external countries for consumption.

Make no mistake this is deliberate.

Cheap credit must be made available to expand local industries.

Key phrase, local industries. Eg industries that keep the flow of capital within the state and even better, goes out to earn.

As for your examples, typical case of lack of local industries, dysfunctionality and low intelligence.

I can expand on this but..

Nigsrdumb:


Off course it's not the governments responsibility to dictate mpc, my question is why are they more protective of Forex preservation than expanding the economy internally?

The answer is simple, over reliance on external countries for consumption.

Make no mistake this is deliberate.

Cheap credit must be made available to expand local industries.

Key phrase, local industries. Eg industries that keep the flow of capital within the state and even better goes out to earn.

As for your examples, typical case of lack of local industries, dysfunctionality and low intelligence.

I can expand on this but..

It is the governments place to decide mpc rate.
What the government don't decide is who accesses credit and who doesn't.Capitslist do that since it's their money.
What of complex industries such as microchip companies,crane and complex machinery companies,etc..?
Will Nigeria suddenly start making this because of cheap credit?
Don't you known you'll have to import these?
How do you import them with destroyed reserves?
Go and check what happened in venezuela and come back.that is what happens to countries with depleted reserves.
You think it is everything local industries can do abi?

ahiboilandgas:
health care should be through a universal health insurance debited through our recharge cards example if i reachage 100 I will get 90 then 10 naira remited to the National insurance fund ..imagine that x 80m lines ....this funds will be use to provide certain health service and to open a heath development bank to fiance buiding and operation of Large hospitals at very low interest....

I'd say this is a sensible way to get generate funding for health. Moreso, it's roughly based on income as those in the higher socioeconomic groups averagely spend more on airtime ir data and hence will pay relatively more. The poor person who hardly loads will pay little too which is almost fair.

For those asking, his proposal is not for MTN to pay but for Nigerians to be mandated to pay a token for health when they recharge

TransAtlanticEx:
No.
So long as the people know there is a sovereign wealth for health and start seeing government structures that came from the proceeds of this trustfund and some people getting healthcare for free while others don't,they would want to benefit whether they contribute or not and if you deny them access,they will cry foul and start spinning conspiracy theories and probably disturb communal peace and spark violence.
Why create this scenario in the first place when you can simply tell them to pay their bills or die?

how is it for free ?when clients contributed the pool of funds ?it a private sector driven health insurance...if u don't insurance your proprty and I insure mine...if end sar looter vandalise the property and insurance pay me will u cry foul?....why are people not crying foul on 11 trillion naira pension funds debited from people salary

jedisco:


I'd say this is a sensible way to get generate funding for health. Moreso, it's roughly based on income as those in the higher socioeconomic groups averagely spend more on airtime ir data and hence will pay relatively more. The poor person who hardly loads will pay little too which is almost fair.

For those asking, his proposal is not for MTN to pay but for Nigerians to be mandated to pay a token for health when they recharge

your total contribution determine your coverage.....surgery ? Malaria , comprehensive check etc ........u choose your category....if British American tobacco can sell over 100bn in Nigeria then we can have a 500bn National health funds...

jedisco:


I'd say this is a sensible way to get generate funding for health. Moreso, it's roughly based on income as those in the higher socioeconomic groups averagely spend more on airtime ir data and hence will pay relatively more. The poor person who hardly loads will pay little too which is almost fair.

For those asking, his proposal is not for MTN to pay but for Nigerians to be mandated to pay a token for health when they recharge

it called disruptive thinking....u got all my explanations.....

maishai:
It really pays for one not to loose focus of things in life, an average person wants health not hospitals, education and not schools, Food and not agriculure................................I seriously laugh when people bring up the American model of health built on having the latest medical facilities........ Nigeria today does not need the most sophisticated Hospitals when good public health sanitation routines are not adhered to..................... So many companies are dumping toxic chemicals into our water ways, nobody is challenging them,,,,,,, Farmers today are abandoning Age old practices and using all sort of chemicals on their farms, Nigerians are not voicing out.........

The fact that someone is identifying public health as a path to wealth means the number of sick folks is on a geometrical rise............. I pray nobody here looses someone just because of medical fees


Call it entitlement mentality but I am of the opinion that No human being should pay a dine for health services............

You made a valid point as absolute capitalism and absolute socialism has so far not worked in any country. What every successful country has is a mixture that suits them.

Also I agree with you that building a few highly skilled and expensive hospital will do little in terms of improving the general health of our population. What we need is an increase in the quality of basic healthcare everyone has access to in addition to general population health strategies.

One area I don't agree is where you said no one should pay a dime for health. One thing we should understand is that quality healthcare in any part of the world is expensive. It may be free at the point of service, but someone is paying for it. If you're proposing free healthcare for all, then you should also propose a way to fund this or else we get a dilapidated system not fit for purpose.
I would rather we have a system that ensures good quality healthcare available to all free at the point of service but where those who want to go private for some added perks can

TransAtlanticEx:
It is the governments place to decide mpc rate.
What the government don't decide is who accesses credit and who doesn't.Capitslist do that since it's their money.
What of complex industries such as microchip companies,crane and complex machinery companies,etc..?
Will Nigeria suddenly start making this because of cheap credit?
Don't you known you'll have to import these?
How do you import them with destroyed reserves?
Go and check what happened in venezuela and come back.that is what happens to countries with depleted reserves.
You think it is everything local industries can do abi?

You don start your ojoro again, wasn't this the exact same thing i said when we had the devaluation argument?

Devaluation make's thing's expensive.simple

What we must do is focus on extreme capitalism to get out of the rot, this cannot be achieved if credit isn't cheap.(mpc rates are indicative of lending rates)

As long as the credit can go into productive avenues, all is good.

The reserves actually don't get depleted, they grow.

You as a business man can expand your business and export more , which will bring in more forex.

The nord guy can sell more cars if people have credit, which means more jobs etc.

ahiboilandgas:
your total contribution determine your coverage.....surgery ? Malaria , comprehensive check etc ........u choose your category....if British American tobacco can sell over 100bn in Nigeria then we can have a 500bn National health funds...

I will disagree with ones contribution determining coverage. People who have more health ailments don't necessarily choose it.

I'd rather have a system that ensures people pay according to their earnings. Those who earn more pay more and vice versa. But then, delivery of general (non-cosmetic) healthcare is free for all. Then also room for private facilities for those who want to go private.

In all successful countries, there are three things the government always has a hand in to ensure equitable distribution to all. These are health, education and security. Once a country gets these three, everything begins to fall into place

jedisco:


I will disagree with ones contribution determining coverage. People who have more health ailments don't necessarily choose it.

I'd rather have a system that ensures people pay according to their earnings. Those who earn more pay more and vice versa. But then, delivery of general (non-cosmetic) healthcare is free for all. Then also room for private facilities for those who want to go private.

In all successful countries, there are three things the government always has a hand in to ensure equitable distribution to all. These are health, education and security. Once a country gets these three, everything begins to fall into place

my proposals are not perfect but can be fine tune along the line....example a heavy drinker that might have higher risk of kidney disease can opt to higher deduction compare to a person that fear only Malaria...

jedisco:


I'd say this is a sensible way to get generate funding for health. Moreso, it's roughly based on income as those in the higher socioeconomic groups averagely spend more on airtime ir data and hence will pay relatively more. The poor person who hardly loads will pay little too which is almost fair.

For those asking, his proposal is not for MTN to pay but for Nigerians to be mandated to pay a token for health when they recharge

In what sane country do governments mandate citizens to make contributions for health insurance (or any other public service) at the point of purchasing goods or services? Are people not already paying taxes? Are people not making contributions through the National Health Insurance Scheme? People must think before making such impractical comments. It’s ridiculous that anyone can even think like that in 2020!

Lazyyouth4u:

In what sane country do governments mandate citizens to make contributions to a healthcare fund (or any other public service) at the point of purchasing goods or services? Are people not already paying taxes? Are people not making contributions through the National Health Insurance Scheme? People must think before making such impractical comments. It’s ridiculous that anyone can even think like that in 2020!

Tax to gdp ratio is one of the lowest in the world, out of 70 mill economically active citizens, only 14 million pay any taxes at all.

Out of the 14 million about 943 pay self accessed taxes over ten million naira.

Keep deceiving yourselves.

Solutions are simple and glaring.

Nigsrdumb:


Tax to gdp ratio is one of the lowest in the world, out of 70 mill economically active citizens, only 14 million pay any taxes at all.

Out of the 14 million about 943 pay self accessed taxes over ten million naira.

Keep deceiving yourselves.

Solutions are simple and glaring.

So solution na to tell people to make their health insurance contributions at the point of purchasing goods or services? And you think this is practical and makes sense? Do you know that there is a NHIS that mandates every employer to deduct funds from its employees as contributions to the scheme? Even informal sector contributes. You don fall hand again on another Saturday bros

ahiboilandgas:
the money is not the companies income buy u get less 10 percent of the value of call time the the funds transfered to your E heath accounts attached to your bvn and phone number....so when u are sick u only submit your phone number and tump print to see a doctor...

This scheme being described is equivalent to something like Pension Earnings Contribution already in place in Nigeria...........

If you really take a look at it, Its just another means of siphoning money from the organised working class

Most of this schemes that we see that has worked in the west, when introduced into Nigeria turns into something else, I can give xamples of the Pension earnings contribution and Soverign wealth funds


These schemes has never benefitted the Nigerian Masses

ahiboilandgas:
my proposals are not perfect but can be fine tune along the line....example a heavy drinker that might have higher risk of kidney disease can opt to higher deduction compare to a person that fear only Malaria...

Yeah.... That'd come handy for those opting for added private health or life insurance. But there should be minimal general healthcare freely available to everyone. Certain people are more at risk of certain illnesses because of their family history or their socioeconomic status but you can't tax them more because of that

maishai:


This scheme being described is equivalent to something like Pension Earnings Contribution already in place in Nigeria...........

If you really take a look at it, Its just another means of siphoning money from the organised working class

Most of this schemes that we see that has worked in the west, when introduced into Nigeria turns into something else, I can give xamples of the Pension earnings contribution and Soverign wealth funds


These schemes has never benefitted the Nigerian Masses

No mind them,they like creating avenues for corruption with all their socialist policies.
It is simple;PAY YOUR HOSPITAL BILLS COMPLETELY OR YOU DIE!!
haba,how hard can that be?

Lazyyouth4u:

So solution na to tell people to make contribution at the point of purchasing goods or services? And you think this is practical and makes sense? You don fall my hand again on another Saturday bros

Did i say that was the solution, you can't keep talking trash and expect not to be called out


Let me reiterate


Expand tax base to fund education, health care, security and infrastructure.

Provide access to cheap credit for economic expansion
Engage in extreme capitalism and industrialisation whilst slowly facing out over reliance on external wolves.(industrial policy needed)

It's simple , stop complicating things.

A quick glance at this shows everything is upside down

ultron12345:


Exactly. Even the chinese system seems to have solved this problem and we are seeing the results today.

One can't believe it isn't right for just any random person to decide who pilots a plane, but believe it's right for just any random person to decide who pilots the affairs of society.

President should emerge based on performance and not mere popularity. Leaders should be able to plan for Te next generation and not just the next election.

We can try an adaptation of the Chinese system.

Let everyone interested write exams testing general knowledge, economics, administration, science, business etc . Only the top 5% should be admitted into the civil service. We don't want stupid people who believe the president of Nigeria can increase global oil prices or make $1 equal to N1.

[b]Those that succeed in entering the civil service will then be given streets or small sections of people to administer. After a given period of time, performance is evaluated based on crime rate, socioeconomic indices, economic growth etc. Those that fail are kicked out and those that pass will be sent to administer villages. After a period of time, performance is evaluated again, based on economic growth and all sorts of socioeconomic factors. Those who fail get kicked out and those who pass move on. From village, to ward, to local government, to another local government, to senatorial district, to another senatorial district, and another senatorial district, then to state, to another state, and another state, then geopolitical zones, to another geopolitical zone, to another geopolitical zones. All these while, only those who pass the strictest and toughest evaluations of performance move on while those that fail are kicked out. Then to the Senate and then to a 20-man executive committee and then to a 7-man presidential committee. [/b]

Tell me how you won't get good leaders like this. You'll get good, exceptional and experienced leaders. Not people who will come in and use first tenure to make all sorts of silly mistakes with the excuse that "we are new to the job"


The presidential committee made up of the 7 best of best who have scaled through decades of the toughest and strictest performance evaluations, with decades of experience, who will have managed total populations and economies larger than many countries, will make decisions together. From here, a leader is selected who will work with the remainng 6 committee members.

The country should be run like a company, based on merit. We all know not just anyone can run a $1B company but we still think just any random person can run a $500B economy like Nigeria. Just as a CEO has to rise through the ranks from the bottom to top based on performance, so too should local government chairman, governor's, presidents etc

Oga this system is dead on arrival in Nigeria, Next Common entrance examination of your kids to secondary schools...... go there and witness the legendary level of malpractice that is going on................Go to WAEC, JAMB, NECO,A-LEVEL, POST JAMB, GRADUATE AND POST GRADUATE and witness extra legendary levels of malpractice and someone is suggesting Nigerians Write exams to obtain positions of service

Kill this idea it wont work

Nigsrdumb:


Did i say that was the solution, you can't keep talking trash and expect not to be called out


Let me re iterate


Expand tax base to fund education, health care, security and infrastructure.

Provide access to cheap credit for economic expansion
Engage in extreme capitalism and industrialisation whilst slowly facing out over reliance on external wolves.(industrial policy needed)

It's simple , stop complicating things.

A simple glance at this shows everything is upside down

Sorry bro but how is this related to my point about the impracticality of making citizens contribute to healthcare at the point of purchasing goods? You are probably mixing me up with someone else.