rainmon:


I thought we were talking about overall infrastructure, not limited to logistics only.

LPI = Logistics Performance Index. As its name suggests, it mainly assesses a logistic performance of a country, not its overall infrastructure.

Overall, Malaysia's and Indonesia's infrastructure are well above SA's.

Take the size of our ports for instance, asian ports like the ones in Indonesia, Vietnam or Philippines are larger than any african ports. We don't even have a single african port in top 50.

https://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/global-trade/top-50-world-container-ports

Or if you look at the top 50 busiest air routes in the world, almost all of them are in Asia, no african airports to be seen in that list.

Asia is the next global hegemon. If we want to develop, we should rely our future on asian countries such as India, China and Indonesia. Europe won't be there to help us out of poverty.

Cool story bro!! and just fyi ports and airports are part of logistic infrastructure as well............well done on destroying your own argument

jln115:
Cool story bro!! and just fyi ports and airports are part of logistic infrastructure as well............well done on destroying your own argument

I know that. I was using the data of ports and airports because we can easily compare them between countries. There are many indicators to assess a country's infrastucture such as water supply, electricity, schools and hospitals and so on. Infrastructure is not only about logistics. And if we look at closer to the data, emerging asian countries like Malaysia or Indonesia are clearly ranked better than SA.

rainmon:


I know that. I was using the data of ports and airports because we can easily compare them between countries. There are many indicators to assess a country's infrastucture such as water supply, electricity, schools and hospitals and so on. Infrastructure is not only about logistics. And if we look at closer to the data, emerging asian countries like Malaysia or Indonesia are clearly ranked better than SA.

Malaysia I would agree in some instances but not Indonesia

jln115:
Malaysia I would agree in some instances but not Indonesia

Even in some indicators, SA has lost to India and even Bangladesh.

According to QS, the best african university in 2021 is University of Cape Town, ranked 220 in the world. While asian best university, National University of Singapore ranked 11. Can we see the gap?

Or if Singapore is way too advanced for us to play catch up game, developing asian countries such as Malaysia, India and Indonesia do have much better university than ours.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021

We have been left in the game. I previously thought Ethiopia would save our face in terms of development, but after seeing the current news I doubt if we could have our own version of "african tigers" story.

rainmon:


Even in some indicators, SA has lost to India and even Bangladesh.

According to QS, the best african university in 2021 is University of Cape Town, ranked 220 in the world. While asian best university, National University of Singapore ranked 11. Can we see the gap?

Or if Singapore is way too advanced for us to play catch up game, developing asian countries such as Malaysia, India and Indonesia do have much better university than ours.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021

We have been left in the game. I previously thought Ethiopia would save our face in terms of development, but after seeing the current news I doubt if we could have our own version of "african tigers" story.

According to Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2021 SA has 9 Universities in the top 1000, India 33, Indonesia only 1 (ranked 800-1000), Malaysia 9........................out of these three countries South Africa has the highest ranking university namely UCT. In terms of Universities in the top 1000 per capita to the population only Malaysia ranks higher than SA.....India and Indonesia per capita rank much much lower.

Singapore is an Island with 5,6 million people, so I don't understand the relevance of why you included Singapore.

jln115:
According to Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2021 SA has 9 Universities in the top 1000, India 33, Indonesia only 1 (ranked 800-1000), Malaysia 9........................out of these three countries South Africa has the highest ranking university namely UCT. In terms of Universities in the top 1000 per capita to the population only Malaysia ranks higher than SA.....India and Indonesia per capita rank much much lower.

Singapore is an Island with 5,6 million people, so I don't understand the relevance of why you included Singapore.

There are at least 22 african countries with population fewer than Singapore's, but none of them having reputation like Singapore has, not even close.

rainmon:


There are at least 22 african countries with population fewer than Singapore's, but none of them having reputation like Singapore has, not even close.

Ok and?

jln115:
https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global

Grasping at straws as usual.

rainmon:


I thought we were talking about overall infrastructure, not limited to logistics only.

LPI = Logistics Performance Index. As its name suggests, it mainly assesses a logistic performance of a country, not its overall infrastructure.

Overall, Malaysia's and Indonesia's infrastructure are well above SA's.

Take the size of our ports for instance, asian ports like the ones in Indonesia, Vietnam or Philippines are larger than any african ports. We don't even have a single african port in top 50.

https://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/global-trade/top-50-world-container-ports

Or if you look at the top 50 busiest air routes in the world, almost all of them are in Asia, no african airports to be seen in that list.

Asia is the next global hegemon. If we want to develop, we should rely our future on asian countries such as India, China and Indonesia. Europe won't be there to help us out of poverty.

Exactly my point @ bolded. How did the Asians such as Indonesia and Malaysia do it,? It seems like there is a deliberate effort to stop Africa's development. It's getting late. The political leaders seem not to care.

rainmon:


Even in some indicators, SA has lost to India and even Bangladesh.

According to QS, the best african university in 2021 is University of Cape Town, ranked 220 in the world. While asian best university, National University of Singapore ranked 11. Can we see the gap?

Or if Singapore is way too advanced for us to play catch up game, developing asian countries such as Malaysia, India and Indonesia do have much better university than ours.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021

We have been left in the game. I previously thought Ethiopia would save our face in terms of development, but after seeing the current news I doubt if we could have our own version of "african tigers" story.

Ethiopia is tribalistic like Kenya and Nigeria. It's problems are rooted in division.

@ednited, what's going on. News coming out of your country is sad. We see Ethiopians now becoming refugees in Sudan!

jln115:
Malaysia I would agree in some instances but not Indonesia

Malaysia is far ahead. The only reason you are neck to neck with Indonesia is due to Indonesia's huge population.

obaaderemi:
Grasping at straws as usual.

lol!! ironic coming from you!!!

obaaderemi:
Malaysia is far ahead. The only reason you are neck to neck with Indonesia is due to Indonesia's huge population.

Cool story bro maybe you should read my previous posts

With its current growth, Indonesia will totally leave South Africa in the dust in 3 years only.

Economic growth (IMF projections for 2020)
Indonesia: -1.5%
South Africa: -8%

Per capita income (IMF projections 2020)
South Africa: US$ 4,736
Indonesia: US$ 4,038

Unemployment rate
Indonesia: 4.84%
South Africa: 23.3%

FDI (2019)
Indonesia: US$ 28.2 billion
South Africa: US$ 4.6 billion

HDI
Indonesia: 0.707
South Africa: 0.705

Thailand has been richer than SA. I'm afraid if there is another asian country that will surpass the richest african country, that would be Indonesia. Soon, Philippines, Vietnam and Bangladesh may surpass SA too. And here we are still reluctant to admit our failures to acknowledge our weaknesses. We need to wake up!

rainmon:
With its current growth, Indonesia will totally leave South Africa in the dust in 3 years only.

Economic growth (IMF projections for 2020)
Indonesia: -1.5%
South Africa: -8%

Per capita income (IMF projections 2020)
South Africa: US$ 4,736
Indonesia: US$ 4,038

Unemployment rate
Indonesia: 4.84%
South Africa: 23.3%

FDI (2019)
Indonesia: US$ 28.2 billion
South Africa: US$ 4.6 billion

HDI
Indonesia: 0.707
South Africa: 0.705

Thailand has been richer than SA. I'm afraid if there is another asian country that will surpass the richest african country, that would be Indonesia. Soon, Philippines, Vietnam and Bangladesh may surpass SA too. And here we are still reluctant to admit our failures to acknowledge our weaknesses. We need to wake up!

since when were we talking about Thailand.....?? Besides

I don't focus to much on short term economic outlook, maybe read this


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pwc.com/content/pwc/script/gx/en/amp/issues/economy/the-world-in-2050.html

Also Bangladesh, Vietnam and the Philippines have much larger populations thus it would be natural that the size of their economies would overtake that of SA however per capita neither these countries including Indonesia would overtake SA in the long run. In fact according to the study by PWC the per capita GDP gap between SA and these countries will widen, SA will also close the gap on Malaysia when it comes to GDP per capita

jln115:
lol!! ironic coming from you!!!

It's a fact! And you just proved me right. We were talking infrastructure and after combing the net for a link that put SA ahead of Indonesia without success, you had to post one on logistics to save face. Typical jli

jln115:
since when were we talking about Thailand.....?? Besides

I don't focus to much on short term economic outlook, maybe read this


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pwc.com/content/pwc/script/gx/en/amp/issues/economy/the-world-in-2050.html

Also Bangladesh, Vietnam and the Philippines have much larger populations thus it would be natural that the size of their economies would overtake that of SA however per capita neither these countries including Indonesia would overtake SA in the long run. In fact according to the study by PWC the per capita GDP gap between SA and these countries will widen, SA will also close the gap on Malaysia when it comes to GDP per capita

Stop your straw grasping, boy! It's not about population. Singapore is smaller than SA but has a larger GDP.

obaaderemi:
It's a fact! And you just proved me right. We were talking infrastructure and after combing the net for a link that put SA ahead of Indonesia without success, you had to post one on logistics to save face. Typical jli

lpi measures infastructure as well mate......

jln115:
lpi measures infastructure as well mate......

Indeed. Yet your link showed only trade logistics and put cotedvoire ahead of Russia.
Talking about straw grasping.

What are the economic drivers of SA that would make it keeps growing healthily in the long run? Well, just look at the credit ratings

S&P / Moody's / Fitch

SA: BB- / Ba2 / BB-
India: BBB- / Baa3 / BBB-
Indonesia: BBB / Baa2 / BBB

That projection by PwC was made long before the pandemic. I firmly believe Bangladesh and Vietnam could be the economic giants, larger than SA's economy, in 3-5 years.

Tyson still looking strong and fit at 54! He could have killed Jones in the ring but then it was just two men past their prime pawing each other in the ring for serious money!

Tyson pocketed around $10 million for this comeback fight, a handy payday for the boxing star who famously blew most of his career earnings, which Forbes estimated could have been as much as $685 million

]
But then, how does one go through $685 million in about 10 years! Talking about the financial illiteracy of many Africans! The same can be seen today in how African countries are managed. We need to wake up and break this jinx!

rainmon:
What are the economic drivers of SA that would make it keeps growing healthily in the long run? Well, just look at the credit ratings

S&P / Moody's / Fitch

SA: BB- / Ba2 / BB-
India: BBB- / Baa3 / BBB-
Indonesia: BBB / Baa2 / BBB

That projection by PwC was made long before the pandemic. I firmly believe Bangladesh and Vietnam could be the economic giants, larger than SA's economy, in 3-5 years.

Yes, both Vietnam and Bangladesh are growing economically while South Africa suffers recession after recession. Meanwhile the economy of Vietnam is already larger.https://www.thecable.ng/us-uk-canada-south-africa-here-are-40-countries-experiencing-a-recession-in-2020

obaaderemi:
Stop your straw grasping, boy! It's not about population. Singapore is smaller than SA but has a larger GDP.

in terms of GDPppp SA has a larger economy..... But besides the point I never compared SA to Singapore

rainmon:
What are the economic drivers of SA that would make it keeps growing healthily in the long run? Well, just look at the credit ratings

S&P / Moody's / Fitch

SA: BB- / Ba2 / BB-
India: BBB- / Baa3 / BBB-
Indonesia: BBB / Baa2 / BBB

That projection by PwC was made long before the pandemic. I firmly believe Bangladesh and Vietnam could be the economic giants, larger than SA's economy, in 3-5 years.

Luckily I'm not basing my statements on my personal beliefs like you but actual studies

obaaderemi:
Indeed. Yet your link showed only trade logistics and put cotedvoire ahead of Russia.
Talking about straw grasping.

and your point is?? I didn't do the study.... The World bank did

jln115:
and your point is?? I didn't do the study.... The World bank did

The major point is that your desperate attempt made you post a link on trade logistics while we were talking general infrastructure development.

jln115:
in terms of GDPppp SA has a larger economy..... But besides the point I never compared SA to Singapore

You never compared SA to Singapore but you said "Bigger countries would naturally have bigger economies than smaller countries". Yet the Singaporean economy is bigger than South Africa's.

obaaderemi:
You never compared SA to Singapore but you said "Bigger countries would naturally have bigger economies than smaller countries". Yet the Singaporean economy is bigger than South Africa's.

Let me try and dumb it down so you can understand Firstly Singapore is an outlier and just because it has a bigger economy than countries with larger populations doesn't make it the norm..............My statement is still 100% true and if we look at PWCs 2050 projections Singapore doesn't even feature in the top 32...........also of that 32 countries 90% of them are also the largest in terms of population

Also FYI Singapore has a smaller economy than SA (GDPppp)

obaaderemi:
The major point is that your desperate attempt made you post a link on trade logistics while we were talking general infrastructure development.

Infrastructure was also ranked in the LPI study

jln115:

Luckily I'm not basing my statements on my personal beliefs like you but actual studies

Well, my "personal beliefs" is actually supported by factual data. SA doesn't have enough drivers to propel its economy to grow faster than asian countries. Its credit ratings admittedly suck too. Let alone its economic growth that cannot even compete with Bangladesh'. And how is your GINI index again? Among the worst in the world. Is that a nation that we truly want to create? A nation that is unequal and violent?

There are lots of success stories from Asia, but why we keep being denial to learn a thing or two from them?

jln115:
Let me try and dumb it down so you can understand Firstly Singapore is an outlier and just because it has a bigger economy than countries with larger populations doesn't make it the norm..............My statement is still 100% true and if we look at PWCs 2050 projections Singapore doesn't even feature in the top 32...........also of that 32 countries 90% of them are also the largest in terms of population

Also FYI Singapore has a smaller economy than SA (GDPppp)

Dumbo, Switzerland, Norway, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Singapore, hong Kong all are smaller than South Africa but with bigger economies. How many more outliers do you want? Argentina, Chile also. Outlier indeed.

rainmon:


Well, my "personal beliefs" is actually supported by factual data. SA doesn't have enough drivers to propel its economy to grow faster than asian countries. Its credit ratings admittedly suck too. Let alone its economic growth that cannot even compete with Bangladesh'. And how is your GINI index again? Among the worst in the world. Is that a nation that we truly want to create? A nation that is unequal and violent?

There are lots of success stories from Asia, but why we keep being denial to learn a thing or two from them?

yeah and PWC used imagination to come up with there report ..... I'm definitely now convinced that a random dude on NL is more qualified and knowledgeable than the 2nd largest professional services network in the world.