Etrusen:
The quote from Oba Akenzua 11 is so inspiring to all who seek to make Africa great again.

the link shows the uniqueness of old benin empire and it largeness from east to west and even outside Nigeria.

THE QUOTE !
" I Would rather serve my God in the Benin way, I would rather worship Him in the Benin manner, I will sing songs of praise to Him in Benin custom, unless it can be proven to me He does not understand the Benin language". Quote by Oba Akenzua II of Benin.


THE LINK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j8KOS9X70U

Goldp5988:






THE QUOTE !
" I Would rather serve my God in the Benin way, I would rather worship Him in the Benin manner, I will sing songs of praise to Him in Benin custom, unless it can be proven to me He does not understand the Benin language". Quote by Oba Akenzua II of Benin.

Was he a Christian?

Abovebonny:
Oxford definition of "empire": a group of countries or states that are controlled by one ruler or government e.g. the Roman Empire.

Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River, let alone outside of Nigeria's boarders, means that it does not qualify for empire status.

The Benin Kingdom was just that, a kingdom.

The map I've provided shows just how small Benin was, comparable in size and influence to the Nri kingdom.

Look at Mali, Songhai, Ghana & Akan these can be classified as empires as they fit the definition perfectly.

I still think The Benin Kingdom was a formidable and rich culture with deep spiritual and militaristic traditions, but they weren't an expansionist enterprise like the other larger west African empires.

Even Oyo, the largest Yoruba kingdom was far greater territorially than Benin.

Please stop overstating history because you have a bias towards a particular topic.

Etrusen:




ok thank u bye bye



saying Oyo is more greater than benin and it never extended beyond it torritory is enough reason for me not to argue with you


the Oyo u claim can't be found in your own map where others are shown in west Africa you claim it to be great maybe by fighting against fellow Yoruba's in Dahomey and the Benin you claim is small is all over Yoruba land and Nri land not the migrants that fled Benin to a far location eg those far in Imo state and even Benin republic


you people keep comparing Oyo that only fought with fellow Yoruba's and couldn't unite the language to Benin. that only war Oyo fought against another tribe was the Fulani and they were defeated and you come here to make about it.


there is no difference between Yoruba and Igbo monarch were each community have entirely independent monarch.

Obalatule:
Bini was at best big kingdom stop bastardising that word empire

gregyboy:



Benin Kingdom is edo people

Benin empire is outside edo, kogi, delta lagos, ogun, osun ondo, ekiti

Now you can use yout brain

Abovebonny:
Oxford definition of "empire": a group of countries or states that are controlled by one ruler or government e.g. the Roman Empire.

Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River, let alone outside of Nigeria's boarders, means that it does not qualify for empire status.

The Benin Kingdom was just that, a kingdom.

The map I've provided shows just how small Benin was, comparable in size and influence to the Nri kingdom.

Look at Mali, Songhai, Ghana & Akan these can be classified as empires as they fit the definition perfectly.

I still think The Benin Kingdom was a formidable and rich culture with deep spiritual and militaristic traditions, but they weren't an expansionist enterprise like the other larger west African empires.

Even Oyo, the largest Yoruba kingdom was far greater territorially than Benin.

Please stop overstating history because you have a bias towards a particular topic.

Obalatule:
lol.....provide evidence of Bini rulership over this places or crawl back to your Bini land cursed with eternal violence

Etinosa12345:


Ur explanation already gave u away...

Benin according to u controlled the land up to the Niger River but not beyond

Etrusen:




ok thank u bye bye



saying Oyo is more greater than benin and it never extended beyond it torritory is enough reason for me not to argue with you


the Oyo u claim can't be found in your own map where others are shown in west Africa you claim it to be great maybe by fighting against fellow Yoruba's in Dahomey and the Benin you claim is small is all over Yoruba land and Nri land not the migrants that fled Benin to a far location eg those far in Imo state and even Benin republic


you people keep comparing Oyo that only fought with fellow Yoruba's and couldn't unite the language to Benin. that only war Oyo fought against another tribe was the Fulani and they were defeated and you come here to make about it.


there is no difference between Yoruba and Igbo monarch were each community have entirely independent monarch.

Abovebonny:


I made the point to illustrate how small Benin was... The Benin Kingdom did not control any part of the Niger River, which was a major trade network they could have taken advantage of, but never did.

Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River,

Etinosa12345:


Yes but they traded with the Portuguese,dutch, British... Using another trade network .. so there was no need for the river niger

According to ur explanation, Benin should be called an Empire because they controlled kingdoms up till the Niger River which u said


Are u implying that Benin directly borders the river niger or there were no kingdom from Benin to the the river niger

Abovebonny:


Look at the map again, left of Benin it says Yoruba and this represents the Oyo Kingdom which was clearly much larger & had greater influence. The Yorubas influence stretched as far west as Ghana, hence the Ga people who are directly related to the Yorubas.

The Yorubas engaged in far more conflict than Benin. Although Benin had a large army they never put it into action like the Hausas or Yorubas did. Even the Different Igbo tribes were constantly at war with their neighbours and with each other. Benin is very ancient yes, but not very formidable in terms of conquest.

samuk:


Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past.

The Alaafin in 1911 seems to have provided his own idea of the power the kings of Benin had once held, from an African (Oyo Yoruba) perspective.

Anyway, the statement from Clapperton:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Obalatule:
lol.....provide evidence of Bini rulership over this places or crawl back to your Bini land cursed with eternal violence

Abovebonny:


Empires are large and stretch across vast amounts of land with many different people from other nations.

The Benin Kingdom consisted of other smaller communities of people but they never conquered a nation, Benin never conquered the Igbo, Yoruba Ijaw or any other major tribe in the region.

Let’s compare Benin to Rome.

Rome began as a small city state on the Italian Peninsular surrounded by other Latin & Greek city states. Rome eventually conquered the surrounding peoples and secured Italy. It was only then that Rome became a Republic (Kingdom). Rome then expanded into Greece, Iberia, Gaul, Britannia etc etc... The Roman Republic was now an empire.

Look at The Roman Empire on the map, now that’s a true empire... not Benin...

Obalatule:
lol.....provide evidence of Bini rulership over this places or crawl back to your Bini land cursed with eternal violence

Etinosa12345:


When I'm less busy I'll show u works of historians where Benin was referred to as Empire ... And for ur info... Igbo(Olaudah Equaino bio, Nnamdi azikiwe Odyssey) were under the Benin Empire. Also Yoruba(Lagos and most eastern Yoruba states) were under the Benin Empire...

Now if the following is true, won't Benin now be an Empire according to ur definition?

And also ... There is no definite size for a kingdom to be referred to as an Empire

Benin reason for the Empire was mainly to control trade

The way u described Roman Empire, is it also the same way the Oyo Empire grew?

samuk:


Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past.

The Alaafin in 1911 seems to have provided his own idea of the power the kings of Benin had once held, from an African (Oyo Yoruba) perspective.

Anyway, the statement from Clapperton:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Abovebonny:


I'm sorry but this is a gross misunderstanding of history, I have read both books and neither of them make reference to Igbo's being under the thumb of the Benin Kingdom.

Asaba lies on the West Bank of the Niger River, and is the largest Igbo town across the Niger.
This means that Asaba is close to the Benin boarder, yet they were never ruled by any Oba and remained an independent Igbo community.
Which part of Igboland did Benin rule? Enugu? Owerri? please talk with historical facts and stop making historically inaccurate claims.

I am aware of Igbo migrations into the Delta and Benin areas, but that is not what we are discussing.

SO Benin and The British Empire are on the same level in terms of empire? since you think size does not matter?

Before The British Empire do you think the small Kingdoms which existed in England were called empires?
The Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia, Kent, Northumbria etc all existed within Britain at one time... even when all these kingdoms came together to form England, England was still a kingdom.
When England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland became one state, it was still referred to as the "United Kingdom" as it is today.
It wasn't until Britain conquered other nations such as: Nigeria, India, Australia, South Africa, Canada etc that it became THE BRITISH EMPIRE.... so yes size does matter!

Its very simple to understand, in Nigeria there existed small kingdoms such as Benin, Oyo, Nri, Hausa and so forth. The only empire to exist in Nigeria was the Sokoto Caliphate.


Controlling trade in an area does not make you an empire, the Arochukwu-confederation had a monopoly on trade in the east yet no educated person would consider them an empire.

There is no shame in being referred to as a kingdom, all major states and empires began as kingdoms. Benin is one of the kingdoms which make up the state of Nigeria, the same way Wales is one of 4 kingdoms which make up the United Kingdom.... very simple logic to understand.

Abovebonny:


Look at the map again, left of Benin it says Yoruba and this represents the Oyo Kingdom which was clearly much larger & had greater influence. The Yorubas influence stretched as far west as Ghana, hence the Ga people who are directly related to the Yorubas.

The Yorubas engaged in far more conflict than Benin. Although Benin had a large army they never put it into action like the Hausas or Yorubas did. Even the Different Igbo tribes were constantly at war with their neighbours and with each other. Benin is very ancient yes, but not very formidable in terms of conquest.

Obalatule:
lol.....provide evidence of Bini rulership over this places or crawl back to your Bini land cursed with eternal violence

Etinosa12345:

Then clearly u should have known abt Olaudah

He was an Igbo slave... what does his story have to do with Igbo's and Benin?

Asaba claim to have a relationship with the Benin as at the 19th century...
Ezechima is said to Have migrated to Onitsha from Benin

Relationship yes, but not conquered

So will u put the Oyo Empire and the British Empire on the same level?
Or the Ethiopia with the British?

No Oyo is also a kingdom like Benin... Ethiopia is also a kingdom not an empire. Mali was an empire, Sokoto was an empire etc


I don't have time for back and forths.. otherwise... I know there are some account that rightfully refered the Benin as an Empire..

then they are wrong

Benin Empire fulfils the definition u gave there

its misleading and false


Just rest...

Etrusen:




Oga if you say Yoruba

they are many some Akure , Ekiti , Osogbo etc

but in all this you claim there has been nothing called Yoruba kingdom rather what we have is

Oyo kingdom Akure land ife land etc

unlike Benin which was united and operate one monarch system

talking about going to Dahomey for war or Ghana by Benin can't be compared to that of Oyo who is in close border land with those people

talking about Dahomey, it was fellow Yoruba's in Dahomey that Oyo people fought

talking about Ga of Ghana they were not associated to Yoruba through Oyo conquest but maybe by migration from one of Yoruba enclave.

even the said Ga can't be totally link to Yoruba because there are some opposing account that link them to Benin.

I know some will want to prove me wrong on the Ga Benin connection because of what a king said to ooni. But the opposing accounts also bring some viable history of tribes in both Dahomey and Ghana linking to Benin.

You will want to mention those Yoruba's in East Africa or maybe some further part of Africa , the thing is Apart from Dahomey Yoruba and maybe those close to the area of Dahomey the others were absolutely victim of slave trade who were move from one place ( especially Nigeria) to other parts of the world or how do you think the Yoruba's in Brazil got there ?

in method of ancient travel the Yoruba's victim of slave trade really have the Benin to thank for selling them in ancient days as slave which helped their tribe to spread.

in the map you brought look at it critically you will notice Benin covering Yoruba land especially ondo, Ekiti, Lagos and some parts of Ogun

I stand by my word that Yoruba ( if there is a single kingdom called Yoruba) never wage a war against any other tribe.

the only tribe they wage war against was Oyo kingdom waging against Fulani and Oyo lost the war


Benin emperiotic period started before Oyo but Oyo ended before Benin , it took the NO THANKS help of an international kingdom to bring Benin to and end

I think my last word will help you compare Oyo and Benin because there is nothing called Yoruba kingdom so when addressing it please be specific.

Abovebonny:


I'm sorry but this is a gross misunderstanding of history, I have read both books and neither of them make reference to Igbo's being under the thumb of the Benin Kingdom.

Asaba lies on the West Bank of the Niger River, and is the largest Igbo town across the Niger.
This means that Asaba is close to the Benin boarder, yet they were never ruled by any Oba and remained an independent Igbo community.
Which part of Igboland did Benin rule? Enugu? Owerri? please talk with historical facts and stop making historically inaccurate claims.

I am aware of Igbo migrations into the Delta and Benin areas, but that is not what we are discussing.

SO Benin and The British Empire are on the same level in terms of empire? since you think size does not matter?
Before The British Empire do you think the small Kingdoms which existed in England were called empires?
The Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia, Kent, Northumbria etc all existed within Britain at one time... even when all these kingdoms came together to form England, England was still a kingdom.
When England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland became one state, it was still referred to as the "United Kingdom" as it is today.
It wasn't until Britain conquered other nations such as: Nigeria, India, Australia, South Africa, Canada etc that it became THE BRITISH EMPIRE.... so yes size does matter!

Its very simple to understand, in Nigeria there existed small kingdoms such as Benin, Oyo, Nri, Hausa and so forth. The only empire to exist in Nigeria was the Sokoto Caliphate.


Controlling trade in an area does not make you an empire, the Arochukwu-confederation had a monopoly on trade in the east yet no educated person would consider them an empire.

There is no shame in being referred to as a kingdom, all major states and empires began as kingdoms. Benin is one of the kingdoms which make up the state of Nigeria, the same way Wales is one of 4 kingdoms which make up the United Kingdom.... very simple logic to understand.

Abovebonny:


I really don't care my initial argument is that Benin is a kingdom not an empire.... the Yoruba kingdoms are also as such, kingdoms.

Etrusen:




the answer you seek is on the map you brought but if you can't understand it, then it will be a shame on your part

Obalatule:
This one has turned to low budget poet

Provide evidence of how Bini ruled over various tribes of Africa or shut your mouth and stop shouting Empire

Abovebonny:
Oxford definition of "empire": a group of countries or states that are controlled by one ruler or government e.g. the Roman Empire.

Considering Benin's borders never extended beyond the Niger River, let alone outside of Nigeria's boarders, means that it does not qualify for empire status.

The Benin Kingdom was just that, a kingdom.

The map I've provided shows just how small Benin was, comparable in size and influence to the Nri kingdom.

Look at Mali, Songhai, Ghana & Akan these can be classified as empires as they fit the definition perfectly.

I still think The Benin Kingdom was a formidable and rich culture with deep spiritual and militaristic traditions, but they weren't an expansionist enterprise like the other larger west African empires.

Even Oyo, the largest Yoruba kingdom was far greater territorially than Benin.

Please stop overstating history because you have a bias towards a particular topic.