abeg wetin liverpool play self ?

Etrusen:
abeg wetin liverpool play self ?

4-0

Etrusen:
we are not done with oduduwa because you have not proven oduduwa was an ife man.
please tell me again how did oduduwa come to be? am waiting
OK madam give an account of the ife people saying he was an ifeman

The following clarification must be made prior to delving into the details of the indigenous Ife traditional accounts on the person of Oduduwa and his roots.

Until deep into the 1900s, the general direction regarding Oduduwa’s roots was to look outside of Africa in the direction of the Middle-East — not merely “east” but Middle-East.

This attitudes originally traces back to the early 1800s writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto who regarded the the Yorubas as having originally come from Arabia.

This attitude was then picked up by Rev. Samuel Johnson (via Captain Clapperton’s writings as collected from Sultan Bello) and vigorously expounded and popularized to become what is now known by historians as the Johnsonian hypothesis.

In sum then, this Middle-Eastern direction originated from far away Hausaland — not from anywhere within the boundaries of Yorubaland, nor was it collected from Ife itself.

“Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson’s ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there still existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately, a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed (as part of a more scientific study of African history in general) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of all the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found.

The traditional accounts of the development and growth of the political troubles in Ife in Oduduwa’s time are many and complicated. ... Nevertheless, by carefully sifting through the infinite variety of traditions and versions, we can put together the basic traditional narrative that follows.*

Some small settlements had, for a long time, existed on hills beyond the immediate environs of the settlements in the Ife bowl. At some point in time, one of them moved down, staked claims to some land within the area and started to build a new settlement. Its leader was a man named Oduduwa. Before this group came, there was already an area that the old settlements generally regarded as land for strangers. It was into this area that the group now commonly represented in the traditions as the Oduduwa group moved. From the moment that this group arrived, it was unprepared to accept the claims of precedence by the older settlements; it was also not willing to have any dealings with the existing alliance of kings. All this led to the beginning of the conflicts between the Oduduwa group and some of the older settlements, and these conflict got worse over a long time.”

Reference: S. Adebanji Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp. 56-57.

This account is noted by the author to have also been cited by (a) Adediran: “The Early Beginnings of the Ife State,” pp. 77-95 In I. A. Akinjogbin: The Cradle of a Race: Ife From the Beginning to 1980, Sunray Publications, 1992; as well as by (b) Obayemi: “The Phenomenon of Oduduwa in Ife History,” pp. 62-76 Also in Ibid, 1992.

but benin history being on the east of ife always give you how he came to be but you people are always carried by population problem ( although lots claim they have nothing to do with oduduwa )

What is “east”?? What is “population” ?? What are you replying to ?? Why are you angry ?? Lol.

Benin is oduduwas origin no matter how you deny it because Benin is even more older than ife and is on the east wing of ife , these are my two reserve reasons

Again, what is “east” ?? Lol.

Again, Benin is not older than Ife, I have refuted that on page 2. This is your thread, you should at least be willing to read a lot of the post therein. Don’t be scared. Read!

Again, I am not sure how many times it has to be re-written before you would come to terms with the real-world. Now listen again:

The recent 1970s Benin idea that Oduduwa was from Benin has been debunked, time and time again by historical scholarship, as an incoherent fraud.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

Etrusen:
i really think you are proud and you are been driven by Afonjing likers and sharers

I’d rather be a proud literate, than be you — a proud ignoramus. Lol!

simple question when did oyo fall?

Interesting! I could have sworn that your so-called “simple question” was originally as follows:

“did the benin civil war stop Benin from being independent until 1897?”

And to which I responded appropriately along the same line of independence as follows:

“Lol. None of the two civil wars stopped either of them from being independent.

Their respective independence only stopped with British take over.”

In other words, my response was in line, direct, and relevant to the question — even though the question itself was of no relevance to anything being discussed.

Now, to answer your fresh inconsequent question, the Oyo empire fell from its imperial height in circa 1835.

But did the kingdom continue independently? Yes it did (although very, very weakened compared to what it used to be, and in a different location) until British takeover towards the end of the 1800s.

Similarly, after Benin’s civil war of 1689-1721, did Benin remain at its (relatively lower to Oyo’s) imperial height prior to British take over? No!

In fact, prior to the British take over of Benin in 1897, the following quotation shows the eyewitness testimony of Mr Cyril Punch — a British merchant who travels around the Yoruba country and Benin in the late-1880s and early-1890s:

“All the rest of West Africa that I know is squalid. Squalor is just the one idea that strikes one. Benin in the old days was more than squalid. It was gruesome. What the exact influence of the place was, or rather what the cause was of the influence felt, I cannot say, but the fact remains that no one who went there in the old days came away without being impressed.

•••

As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and a sense of a spirit of a long past of atrocities, which if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers’ men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly on their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

Reference: Cyril Punch‘s Letters, c.1890; quoted in H. Ling Roth, 1903, p. vii.

Having said that, it is important that I add that the circumstances and period (two things) of the respective civil wars of Oyo and Benin are in fact universes apart.

The Oyo’s civil war was in the 1800s, while the Benin’s on the other hand was in the 1600s/1700s. The Oyo civil war was largely colored by religion; while the Benin‘s civil war had no such coloration.

The Oyo civil war was closer to the period of British imperial agenda in the “Nigeria” region; the Benin civil war, on the other hand, was way over a century prior to British takeover.

A fair consideration of this background thus leads one to the clear conclusion that comparing the date of Oyo’s fall to civil war with the date of Benin’s fall to British takeover is not merely as comparing apples and oranges; it is in fact a meaningless comparison.

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

gregyboy:


Are you aware oba eweka11 agreed in 1914 to have been an oduduwa son and he paid homage to ooni and alafin

Never happened.
Where did you get this rubbish from ?
When you say stuff like this, at least attempt to substantiate it.
Oba Eweka II was raised by Oba Ovonramwen, the last independent emperor of Benin, when Oba Eweka 2 ascended the throne (1914) many people in the region (mostly the yoruba) were afraid he would make his father's empire rise again.

So please prove your claim. I want to see how you are going to explain this rubbish.

Etrusen:





you nor fit talk where oduduwa come from tao ?


am still waiting

You will wait until chicken grows teeth. Tao doesn't like to discuss real history because she knows the Yoruba have nothing in comparison to Benin.

She has already chickened out and run away from my direct challenge to her? I even offered her $1000 to provide eyewitness written historical accounts of Benin/Ife relationship earlier than 1800s.

What she likes to do is sneak into a thread and start giving skewed citations that favoured her narrative.

The truth is, Yoruba history started proper by the likes of Ajayi Crowder and S. Johnson in the late 1800s. These early Yoruba historian's works were heavily in favour of Oyo, they tried to make Oyo greater than it was.

By 1930, after the British have unsuccessfully tried to change the Benin dynasty because of the 1897 massacre, they sort to bring all Western Nigeria Obas under their friend and more pliable ally, the Ooni of Ife. This was the reason for the first meeting of all Western Obas in 1937. Prior to 1937, there were no such meetings.

Ooni's political position of leadership had no historical backing, it was just political.

Nigeria got Independence in 1960 and the Western obas political creation collapsed, the Oba of Benin moved his people out of the West to form the mid-west in 1963. Superiority contest began between the Ooni and other Obas such as the Awujale of Ijebu and Alaafin of Oyo who saw themselves as more senior to the Ooni, the descendant of a shrine keeper in Ife according to the Yoruba historian, S. Johnson.

Since the 1930s, people have been trying to push the Ife supremacy through the Oduduwa myths.

Oduduwa was nothing but myth. In the myth, the Oba of Benin was supposed to be the most prominent heir to the Oduduwa dynasty through Oranmiyan, Alaafin of Oyo is supposed to be Oba of Benin junior brother and Ooni their chief priest, AKA shrine keeper.

Today, the Awujale still doesn't subscribe to being Oduduwa lineage or being from Ife, the Oba of Lagos struggles to see the Ooni as his senior, he claims the Oba of Benin as his father. The current Alaafin never accepted the former Ooni as his senior, I don't know if his position has changed with the current Ooni.

Historically, Nigeria really had two empires. The Benin empire, which lasted for about 500 years and the Sokoto caliphate which is controlling part of the north and Yoruba for over two hundred years now.

This is why Benin/Ife relationship have problem.

A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship1
A. F. C. Ryder
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021853700005314
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 22 January 2009
Extract
The traditions now current among the Edo of Nigeria trace the origin of the Benin dynasty and the associated cire-perdue technique of brass-casting to Ife. Some of the information recorded by European visitors to Benin since the fifteenth century is not easily reconcilable with this tradition. [/b]Material evidence, especially that contained in the Benin bronzes, and the results of archaeological investigation have also raised difficulties. It is suggested that many conflicts in the evidence could be resolved by adopting a hypothesis which would ascribe a more northerly origin to the dynasty. [b]The Nupe-Igala area straddling the confluence of the Niger and Benue emerges as the key area in such a reconstruction of Benin dynastic affiliations. The Yoruba States would seem to be related to the same general complex, but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference become far less certain when placed in context.


According the prevalent myths of Ooni of Ife before his 1930 political elevation.

S. Johnson said in his book, The History of the Yorubas that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book; the historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Yorubas are here to deceive and capitalize on the ignorance and gullibility of majority of their readers. if they think they have history, they should come out and lets debate it,

TAO11:
I’d rather be a proud literate, than be you — a proud ignoramus. Lol!

Interesting! I could have sworn that your so-called “simple question” was originally as follows:

“did the benin civil war stop Benin from being independent until 1897?”

And to which I responded appropriately along the same line of independence as follows:

“Lol. None of the two civil wars stopped either of them from being independent.

Their respective independence only stopped with British take over.”

In other words, my response was in line, direct, and relevant to the question — even though the question itself was of no relevance to anything being discussed.

Now, to answer your fresh inconsequent question, the Oyo empire fell from its imperial height in circa 1835.

But did the kingdom continue independently? Yes it did (although very, very weakened compared to what it used to be, and in a different location) until British takeover towards the end of the 1800s.

Similarly, after Benin’s civil war of 1699-1721, did Benin remain at its (relatively lower to Oyo’s) imperial height prior to British take over? No!

In fact, prior to the British take over of Benin in 1897, the following quotation shows the eyewitness testimony of Mr Cyril Punch — a British merchant who travels around the Yoruba country and Benin in the late-1880s and early-1890s:

“All the rest of West Africa that I know is squalid. Squalor is just the one idea that strikes one. Benin in the old days was more than squalid. It was gruesome. What the exact influence of the place was, or rather what the cause was of the influence felt, I cannot say, but the fact remains that no one who went there in the old days came away without being impressed.

•••

As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and a sense of a spirit of a long past of atrocities, which of not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of the return of two of Miller Brothers’ men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly on their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

Reference: Cyril Punch‘s Letters, c.1890; quoted in H. Ling Roth, 1903, p. vii.

Having said that, it is important that I add that the circumstances and period (two things) of the respective civil wars of Oyo and Benin are in fact universes apart.

The Oyo’s civil war was in the 1800s, while the Benin’s on the other hand was in the 1600/1700. The Oyo civil war was largely colored by religion (a most certain non-negotiable factor); while the Benin‘s civil war had no such coloration.

The Oyo civil war was closer to the period of British imperial agenda in the “Nigeria” region; the Benin civil war, on the other hand, was way over a century prior to British takeover.

A fair consideration of this background thus leads one to the clear conclusion that comparing the date of Oyo’s fall to civil war with the date of Benin’s fall to British takeover is not merely as comparing apples and oranges; it is in fact a meaningless comparison.

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

And the cold blood massacre continue

To my Yoruba folks, I am actually saying the following with all sense of humility:

If you must engage these fearful and insecure Bini fraudsters at this point onward on this thread, please note that virtually all the silencing answers to their moronic contentions have already been provide on this same thread up to this page.

Do not be in a hurry, take your time to acquaint yourself with my comments so far (step by step from page 1) on this thread before you proceed to engage them if you must.

Notice what kind of reply and argument was provided to their dumb contentions. If this is mastered, you may never fall for their dishonest tactics and double standards.

Remember, they are very skilled with dishonesty and deceit. And it is understandable.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

TAO11:
I’d rather be a proud literate, than be you — a proud ignoramus. Lol!

Interesting! I could have sworn that your so-called “simple question” was originally as follows:

“did the benin civil war stop Benin from being independent until 1897?”

And to which I responded appropriately along the same line of independence as follows:

“Lol. None of the two civil wars stopped either of them from being independent.

Their respective independence only stopped with British take over.”

In other words, my response was in line, direct, and relevant to the question — even though the question itself was of no relevance to anything being discussed.

Now, to answer your fresh inconsequent question, the Oyo empire fell from its imperial height in circa 1835.

But did the kingdom continue independently? Yes it did (although very, very weakened compared to what it used to be, and in a different location) until British takeover towards the end of the 1800s.

Similarly, after Benin’s civil war of 1699-1721, did Benin remain at its (relatively lower to Oyo’s) imperial height prior to British take over? No!

In fact, prior to the British take over of Benin in 1897, the following quotation shows the eyewitness testimony of Mr Cyril Punch — a British merchant who travels around the Yoruba country and Benin in the late-1880s and early-1890s:

“All the rest of West Africa that I know is squalid. Squalor is just the one idea that strikes one. Benin in the old days was more than squalid. It was gruesome. What the exact influence of the place was, or rather what the cause was of the influence felt, I cannot say, but the fact remains that no one who went there in the old days came away without being impressed.

•••

As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and a sense of a spirit of a long past of atrocities, which if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers’ men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly on their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

Reference: Cyril Punch‘s Letters, c.1890; quoted in H. Ling Roth, 1903, p. vii.

Having said that, it is important that I add that the circumstances and period (two things) of the respective civil wars of Oyo and Benin are in fact universes apart.

The Oyo’s civil war was in the 1800s, while the Benin’s on the other hand was in the 1600/1700. The Oyo civil war was largely colored by religion (a most certain non-negotiable factor); while the Benin‘s civil war had no such coloration.

The Oyo civil war was closer to the period of British imperial agenda in the “Nigeria” region; the Benin civil war, on the other hand, was way over a century prior to British takeover.

A fair consideration of this background thus leads one to the clear conclusion that comparing the date of Oyo’s fall to civil war with the date of Benin’s fall to British takeover is not merely as comparing apples and oranges; it is in fact a meaningless comparison.

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

simple question oooo

abeg answer na

so that your likers and sharers can still share it

TAO11:
The following clarification must be made prior to delving into the details of the indigenous Ife traditional accounts on the person of Oduduwa and his roots.

Until deep into the 1900s, the general direction regarding Oduduwa’s roots was to look outside of Africa in the direction of the Middle-East — not merely “east” but Middle-East.

This attitudes originally traces back to the early 1800s writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto who regarded the “father” of the Yoruba as a Meccan prince.

This attitude was then picked up by Rev. Samuel Johnson (via Captain Clapperton’s writings as collected from Sultan Bello) and vigorously expounded and popularized to become what is now known by historians as the Johnsonian hypothesis.

In sum then, this Middle-Eastern direction originated from far away Hausaland — not from anywhere within the boundaries of Yorubaland, nor was it collected from Ife itself.

“Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson’s ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there still existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately, a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed (as part of a more scientific study of African history in general) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of all the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found.

The traditional accounts of the development and growth of the political troubles in Ife in Oduduwa’s time are many and complicated. ... Nevertheless, by carefully sifting through the infinite variety of traditions and versions, we can put together the basic traditional narrative that follows.*

Some small settlements had, for a long time, existed on hills beyond the immediate environs of the settlements in the Ife bowl. At some point in time, one of them moved down, staked claims to some land within the area and started to build a new settlement. Its leader was a man named Oduduwa. Before this group came, there was already an area that the old settlements generally regarded as land for strangers. It was into this area that the group now commonly represented in the traditions as the Oduduwa group moved. From the moment that this group arrived, it was unprepared to accept the claims of precedence by the older settlements; it was also not willing to have any dealings with the existing alliance of kings. All this led to the beginning of the conflicts between the Oduduwa group and some of the older settlements, and these conflict got worse over a long time.”

Reference: S. Adebanji Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp. 56-57. The asterisked account is noted by the author to have also been cited in (a) Akinjogbin: The Cradle of a Race: Adediran: “The Early Beginnings of the Ife State,” pp. 77-95; and (b) Obayemi: “The Phenomenon of Oduduwa in Ife History,” pp. 62-76.


What is “east”?? What is “population” ?? What are you replying to ?? Why are you angry ?? Lol.

Again, what is “east” ?? Lol.

Again, Benin is not older than Ife, I have refuted that on page 2. This is your thread, you should at least be willing to read a lot of the post therein. Don’t be scared. Read!

Again, I am not sure how many times it has to be re-written before you would come to terms with the real-world. Now listen again:

The recent 1970s Benin idea that Oduduwa was from Benin has been debunked, time and time again by historical scholarship, as an incoherent fraud.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

you can't answer simple question

you just like long story to cover yourself

I can't count about five decent questions that people have you but can't give answer because it doesn't suit your argument.

its all noted how bias you to history

TAO11:
To my Yoruba folks, I am actually saying the following with all sense of humility:

If you must engage these fearful and insecure Bini fraudsters at this point onward on this thread, please note that virtually all the silencing answers to their moronic contentions have already been provide on this same thread up to this page.

Do not be in a hurry, take your time to acquaint yourself with my comments so far (step by step from page 1) on this thread before you proceed to engage them if you must.

Notice what kind of reply and argument was provided to their dumb contentions. If this is mastered, you may never fall for their dishonest tactics and double standards.

Remember, they are very skilled with dishonesty and deceit. And it is understandable.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

Good that you are warning all your Yoruba folks on how to respond to the Benins because you know they are illiterate dullard.

It's easy to throw mould on great Benin historical achievements and accomplishments when your tribe have nothing to showcase.

The last time in April/May this year we engaged in this kind of debate, you were so beaten, you went on a long sabbatical, only to come back recently to reply to my comment. I am sure you will go back into another long hibernation after this debate because numerous teaching moments awaits you.

What have we learned so far about Yoruba history.

1. I have cited Yoruba historical sources, S. Johnson, Law, etc. That confirmed Ooni as shrine keeper and no royal until 1930.

2. Oyo alleged greatness has been demystified by references provided of Alaafin of Oyo paying tributes to Benin, Alaafin of Oyo request of military assistance from the Oba of Benin to help put down his rebellious neighbours, the Fulani defeat of Oyo and annexation of Ilorin till date.

3. I made reference to the Awujale of Ijebu Ode rejection of Ife/Oduduwa lineage and rejection of Ooni of Ife supremacy.

4. I made reference to the Oba of Lagos claiming Oba of Benin as his historical father.

5. I provided Yoruba historical accounts and references of how Benin dominated eastern Yoruba.

6. Despite repeated requests, you haven't been able to give convincing reply to the origin of Oduduwa according to early Yoruba historical accounts. We are not interested in your later day revisionist fabrications.

7 Early Yoruba accounts of the origin of Oduduwa traces him to the middle east or from the sky and the Benin version have him from Benin.

So far, almost all parts of Yoruba land have been touched and the thread is only five pages.

TAO11:
To my Yoruba folks, I am actually saying the following with all sense of humility:

If you must engage these fearful and insecure Bini fraudsters at this point onward on this thread, please note that virtually all the silencing answers to their moronic contentions have already been provide on this same thread up to this page.

Do not be in a hurry, take your time to acquaint yourself with my comments so far (step by step from page 1) on this thread before you proceed to engage them if you must.

Notice what kind of reply and argument was provided to their dumb contentions. If this is mastered, you may never fall for their dishonest tactics and double standards.

Remember, they are very skilled with dishonesty and deceit. And it is understandable.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

you have proven to be insecure and fearful by not answering the questions ask

where is oduduwa, from is that a bad question?

and others asked


I Wonder what a non Benin / Yoruba will be thinking after observing that weakness

please I want a non Benin and Yoruba reading this to tell me if my question is bad

Etinosa12345:
4-0

ok

Etrusen:





you have proven to be insecure and fearful by not answering the questions ask

where is oduduwa, from is that a bad question?

and others asked


I Wonder what a non Benin / Yoruba will be thinking after observing that weakness

please I want a non Benin and Yoruba reading this to tell me if my question is bad

Tao is only interested in throwing mould on the history of Benin. She shy away from questions examining Yoruba history because Yoruba history is full of myths and legends.

As simple as this your question, it's very difficult for the Yoruba to answer because there is no unified Yoruba answer to it. The answer you will often get depends on who you are speaking to at that particular moment. That is why she warned them to be careful with their replies.

Yoruba keep reversing their histories and modifying the lies in them.

samuk:


Tao is only interested in throwing mould on the history of Benin. She shy away from questions examining Yoruba history because Yoruba history is full of myths and legends.

As simple as this your question, it's very difficult for the Yoruba to answer because there is no unified Yoruba answer to it. The answer you will often get depends on who you are speaking to at that particular moment. That is why she warned them to be careful with their replies.

Yoruba keep reversing their histories and modifying the lies in them.

I am sure the Tao11 I know will still beat around the bush should I ask her now

if there was anything called Yoruba kingdom.


Afonjalism and insecurity problem

Etrusen:





simple question oooo

abeg answer na

so that your likers and sharers can still share it

She rushed into the thread thinking she was coming to pour sand on Benin history as usual,

samuk:



She thought she was coming to pour sand on Benin history,

she has always proven to be a cruel type

this was how she have bashing Benin kings by counting them as 37,38, and 40 without 39 until I corrected her brain behind it

Tao11 serve only to her gain which makes her cruel historian that work for her tribal benefits even when she is obviously wrong

though am not surprise because these are features of Afonjalism

Etinosa1234 asked her simple question how a Deji of Akure was removed from the throne but she rather choose to beat around bush than answer simple question.

she will always bring a picture titled by the Yoruba's as the gathering of yoruba obas when she don't even know the struggle of Akenzua 11 against the west and Awolowo. she will always bring the picture with even knowing about the reason for the gathering and what was discussed and all she knows is that the book says the gathering of Yoruba obas even when the oba of Benin was the only one addressed as OBA on the paper she provided


I repeat Tao11 only give half scripted story and the part the suit her argument. the Yoruba's have nothing called Yoruba kingdom if am lying then let Tao11 prove me wrong.

I wonder the thought of her ignorant likers and sharers who are blind to the truth

I can lot of decent questions people have ask Tao11 but she refuse to give a direct answer because she is insecure to what may come next

I don't argue too much online all I do is focus on my Benin work, I am Tao11 greatest nightmare on Nairaland when it comes to Benin and yorubas but am not move because a full blooded Edo man son to Udugbamen and decendant of the enogie of Ute in orhionmwon and decendant of Ogierunmwanbo N oka in Ikpo _ okha knows the history of his people


my simple advice to Tao11 is that

if she want to claim Yoruba worth, I have no problem with that but she should do it without mentioning Benin because Benin is already establish even before the foundation of ife which they claim as their origin ( although some deny the claim.)

TAO11:
(1) Regarding the age of the Ife settlement w.r.t. Benin, it is an absolutely laughable ignorant falsehood to say that Benin predates Ife or that Ife wasn’t settled prior to the 1500s.

(A) Some radio-carbon dates of Ife potsherd pavements (or “street tiling” in modern terminology) at Ita-Yemoo, Ife as obtained by Frank Willett goes back to as early as circa 960CE.

(B) Some radio-carbon dates of charcoal samples from Orun Oba Ado as obtained by Frank Willett goes back to as early as circa 560CE.

(C) In his 1969 report of a preliminary archaeological survey of Ife, Paul Ozanne finds that many settlements were already established in Ife by circa 350BCE.

I would wait to see his evidence for how Benin was settled prior to Ife. Joke of the century.

———————————
(2) Regarding the sorrowful rant that there was no classical relationship between Ife and Benin, well this has been debunked as an ignorant falsehood many times on Nairaland.

See any of the two links below for some examples of such refutation:

https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798

https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

Having said that, the allusion to A.F.C. Ryder is not only a warped one but also an ignorant one as is to be seen below:

Ryder never claimed to have any evidence of no classical Ife-Benin relationship. Rather he simply questioned the widely acknowledged relationship and proposed his undecided alternative — an hypothesis which has unfortunately yielded zero result even till date.

In fact, four years after his hypothesis, Ryder is reported in a joint publication by Professors Elizabeth Allo Isichei & Peter Uche Isichei to have abandoned the hypothesis. The authors note in this regards as follows:

“It is noteworthy that Ryder, who questioned the Ife connection and argued the case for the linkages with a northern kingdom, abandoned the line of argument in his later book, Benin and the Europeans.”

Reference: Elizabeth A. Isichei & Peter Uche Isichei, “A History of Nigeria”, Longman (1983), Volume 2, p. 137. [You may click on the bolded word “Reference”]

Moreover, even if Ryder had failed to retrace his steps, his mere undecided questioning does absolutely nothing to overturn the corpus of evidence upheld by almost every single scholar on the subject.

A remarkable example of the many scholarly devastating refutations which trailed Ryder’s hypothesis was from Professor Robin Horton in his “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment”.

See the link below for my excerpt of relevant quotations from the work showing how Ryder’s hypothesis was debunked:

https://www.nairaland.com/6048841/how-unveil-promote-ancient-igbo/55#93649575

—————————
(3) The idea that the Binis settled in Lagos via a military invasion; or that the progenitor of the present-ruling dynasty of Lagos island is a Bini blood have both being debunked in the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6286709/ijebu-vs-jebusite/1#96593783

Moreover, the idea that Benin ruled over some Yoruba frontier territories to its west has also been debunked in the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/15#96519494

cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

This particular comment made me send you into
Oblivion the last time


The last time i asked that little sculpture found in the palace if it was ooni of ife why is different from the vast ife sculpture both in costume and in shape
You were dumbfounded
I also present fact that that sculpture most likely was from an eastern Yoruba area bini had extensive contact with

You make me laugh,


So if that sculpture could be found in benin from ife that automatically means every other yoruba should have one of those sculpture buried in their palaces to show they had relationship with ife



I will be needing such sculpture from every palace of every yoruba clan only benin can't be an exemption

By so doing we can be assured it was a deliberate act from ife to show sovereignty and connection to her children

Samuk see the transgendered aka amazingly dullard wanting to catch crusie with that owo sculpture found in the oba palace she is claiming it as ife sculpture to Etrusen to deceive him



Benin love documenting on sculpture, they documented sculptures of western ibos kings and their ladies in benin, yet they manage to skip their ancestral town ife


TAO11 obsession will not end you, repeat after me

I ilke your obsession anyway it has we bini than you

Obalatule:
You are the definition of pain and insecurity, Bini is a Yoruba sub-tribe even your Oba acknowledged this publicly


Do you guys really need to always put yourselves through this painful trashing at the hands of the yorubas all the time?

Did you see my thread were i said niggas like you should prove bini - ife had a connection

Without the useless oral account flying up and down

samuk:


Go and call your teacher Tao here right now, you have nothing upstairs to talk about. Let her know that I am ready to offer her or anyone $1000 who is able to provide eyewitness written historical accounts of Benin/Ife relationship early than 1800s.

Obalatule just woke uo from dream


Benin-ife relationships is too farfetched

He should prove oyo-ife relationships with archeological finding or writeup which proves oyo originated from ife, or prove ife-oyo father and son relationship


Just watch how they will cry foul

Obalatule:
You just dey edit this one comment to better hide and disguise your pains

Go and offer your Oba ewuare $1000 to recant his shameful statement about descending from Ile-ife

Lol, the oba claims ife came fron him.....

Atleast ww dont believe him, on that

But it seems you believe the ooni of ife own side of the history so prove it, prove your ooni right

TAO11:
Or he should treat himself to at least a $1,000 shopping if he finds eyewitness written historical accounts of his daddies such as:

Eweka 1, Uwakhwuahen, Ehenmihe, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifokun, Ewuare 1, Esegie, and many others.

But if he fails to find any such eyewitness written historical account, then he may be consistent enough with his warped logic to conclude that his daddies are no more than fictional cartoons — aka. santa-cluases.

————————
Having said that archaeological evidence dating to centuries prior to the 1800s have already been adduced to establish the classical Ife-Benin relationship which consistently portrays Benin kingdom as the subject and Ife as the overlord.

See links below as already discussed in details on page two of this thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798

https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

cc: Obalatule

Desperado transgendered

Etrusen: So, tell me Tao: (A)What is 2 + 2 ??, and (B)What is that capital of Lagos State ??

Me: (A)2 + 2 is 4, and (B)The capital of Lagos State is Ikeja. Having said that, I really want to touch on the actual relevant issue of •••

Etrusen: Why don’t you answer my questions? Please answer my questions [yet he quotes the same comment containing the answers].

Me:www.nairaland.com/attachments/12764247_ae211438cf114ce8a40cc13d10971a84_jpeg_jpega19392d9286f87690d4462b719f1beed [ROTFLMAO and asking myself] Is “selective seeing syndrome” truly a thing ?? Wonderful !!

These Bini slave-dullards must hurry-up to find a new hubby and get a life.

In the meantime, I’d suggest you all go back to join your sand play-mates. One of them is already waiting.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12647307_img20200916212710_jpeg67fd5262a10290889c45f9b351a68fba


You all are clearly doing a terrible job at defending the poor Yoruba-Oba of Benin kingdom.

cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

TAO11:
Interesting! All traditional rulers said that?? Wow!

Oh, except the traditional rulers of the actual kingdom where Oduduwa himself reigned.

—————————
Let’s try something similar for Benin and see how it goes:

All aboriginal families/institutions within Benin (who are independent of the present dynasty) insist that the present dynasty of Benin is of foreign origin from Ife.

How does that sound? Well, it actually sounds more legit than the one above.

As a matter of fact, the Ogiamien family (who are the descendants of the Ogiso) in Benin are still angry that the Oba of Benin no longer wants to acknowledge the Ekiokpagha treaty (I hope I spelled it right), a rent that the Obas of Benin used to pay to the Ogiamien for allowing Yoruba foreigner Oranmiyan and his descendants to make use of the land. If truly Oduduwa was some spurious Izoduwa, or Imadoduwa, or Ekala-whatever from Benin, how come his descendants via Oranmiyan were made to pay rent to the Ogiamien for the land they occupied?

TAO11:
Etrusen: So, tell me Tao: (A)What is 2 + 2 ??, and (B)What is that capital of Lagos State ??

Me: (A)2 + 2 is 4, and (B)The capital of Lagos State is Ikeja. Having said that, I really want to touch on the actual relevant issue of •••

Etrusen: Why don’t you answer my questions? Please answer my questions [yet he quotes the same comment containing the answers].

Me:www.nairaland.com/attachments/12764247_ae211438cf114ce8a40cc13d10971a84_jpeg_jpega19392d9286f87690d4462b719f1beed [ROTFLMAO and asking myself] Is “selective seeing syndrome” truly a thing ?? Wonderful !!

This Bini slave-dullards must hurry-up, find a new hubby, and get a life.

In the meantime, I’d suggest you all go back to join your sand play-mates. One of them is already waiting.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12647307_img20200916212710_jpeg67fd5262a10290889c45f9b351a68fba


You all are clearly doing a terrible job at defending the Yoruba-Oba of Benin kingdom.

cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

Tao11 please I want to know

are you male?



I hope this is easy?

Etrusen:
Tao11 please I want to know
are you male?
I hope this is easy?

No! And why does the “f” beside my moniker look somehow like “male” to you? Lol.

Are you sure everything is fine with you as regards seeing?

I’ve been noticing that your replies lately seem to be having something to do with not seeing properly.

It’s been a recurring pattern.
———————
I really hope your reply to this won’t be you usual fake “why don’t you answer me?” rant.

Otherwise, it is high time you visited an ophthalmologist already.

TAO11:
No! Are you planning to get married?
———————
I really hope your reply to this won’t be you usual fake “why don’t you answer me?” rant.

you have proven always to be insecure

have gotten my answer so relax

it is really funny that you can't answer if oduduwa was an ife man with the same YES or NO

you answer it that way because you are afraid of the unknown question that is to come.

why don't you just answer it

TAO11:
No! And why does the “f” beside my moniker look somehow like “male” to you? Lol.

Are you sure everything is fine with you as regards seeing?

I’ve been noticing that your replies lately seem to be having something to do with not seeing properly.

It’s been a recurring pattern.
———————
I really hope your reply to this won’t be you usual fake “why don’t you answer me?” rant.

Otherwise, it is high time you visited an ophthalmologist already.

you are too insecure for saying that

people impersonate ,( especially Hausa and Yoruba ) so don't feel or think anything different

Etrusen:
••• it is really funny that you can't answer if oduduwa was an ife man with the same YES or NO

you answer it that way because you are afraid of the unknown question that is to come.

why don't you just answer it

I have answered your simple question since page 3. In fact you quoted the answer and still asked for the answer.

I have attached the screenshot below only because you have repeatedly proven yourself to be blind Bini dullard. Or is this delusions

How any sane person would conclude that your question [“is Oduduwa an Ife man?”] is not yet answered remains a mystery to me?

Is “dullardism” a genetic Bini thing?? Are you naturally dull or just pretending to be dull?

Newton85:


As a matter of fact, the Ogiamien family (who are the descendants of the Ogiso) in Benin are still angry that the Oba of Benin no longer wants to acknowledge the Ekiokpagha treaty (I hope I spelled it right), a rent that the Obas of Benin used to pay to the Ogiamien for allowing Yoruba foreigner Oranmiyan and his descendants to make use of the land. If truly Oduduwa was some spurious Izoduwa, or Imadoduwa, or Ekala-whatever from Benin, how come his descendants via Oranmiyan were made to pay rent to the Ogiamien for the land they occupied?

we are dealing with oduduwa origin so don't change topic but if you want to know about ogiamien, first settle that of oduduwa then we can come to ogiamien

any way this will help you

https://www.nairaland.com/6291503/evidences-shows-ogiamien-claim-original

TAO11:
The attachment below is because you repeatedly have proven to be blind Bini dullard.

How any sane person would conclude that your question [“is Oduduwa an Ife man?”] is not yet answered remains a mystery to me?

Is “dullardism” a genetic Bini thing?

madam don't think am blind.

am asking you a direct question

do you agree to this account ?

nothing more, answer if he was an ife man with either yes or no

is this too hard for you ?