luvmijeje:


My goodness! In order to understand how powerful it's, try arguing this fact in the real world, you will instantly be seen as a devil.

I can only say what I'm saying online. I keep all this to myself in the real world. I'm not ready for unnecessary enmity.

I argue it in real
Life. Seriously I do.

Ihedinobi3:


There is a leap of logic then in your thinking.

Yes, it is true that Eve considered Seth a replacement for Abel, but why do you assume that Seth was the only other child that they had? Is it impossible that Seth was specifically named because he was their only other child with a similar bent to Abel? That is, is it impossible that he is the only other child who was like Abel in his attitude to God?

Is it impossible that Cain and Abel were not the only children that they had at first? That is, the "other sons and daughters" in Genesis 5:4 were born both before Seth and after him?

I see nothing in those texts to suggest that the answers to the questions above is "yes." If you do, I'd like to hear your reasons.

Adam had other children after Cain was exiled. And not before. So there was no way in hell he got married to his sister.

God only exiled Cain and no one else.

FatherOfJesus:
I argue it in real
Life. Seriously I do.

You must be troublesome. I try as much as possible to avoid confrontation. I value my peace.

luvmijeje:


Adam had other children after Cain was exiled. And not before. So there was no way in hell he got married to his sister.

God only exiled Cain and no one else.

I don't believe I have ever seen the portion of the Bible that said that Adam had other children after Cain was exiled. Do you have a passage that states this?

As for God exiling Cain and no one else, we don't know this either. The Bible does not say that no one else was exiled. It also does not say that anyone else was. It is only silent on the issue. However, that God exiled only Cain does not mean that others who wanted to join him in his exile could not.

Ihedinobi3:


I don't believe I have ever seen the portion of the Bible that said that Adam had other children after Cain was exiled. Do you have a passage that states this?

Gen 4:25

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.


Oya, you give me the scripture that says Adam gave birth to other Children before Cain was exiled.

luvmijeje:


I'll tell you why the Book of Genesis gave birth to the enslavement and demonisation of women 1st Timothy 2:10-14

2I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.13For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

This too is a leap of logic. I don't see how 1 Timothy 2:10-14 is the reason that Genesis 2-3 is in the Bible. It's a big claim to make. Can you prove it?

luvmijeje:


You must be troublesome. I try as much as possible to avoid confrontation. I value my peace.

Lol, I don’t usually confront, I counter confrontation.

Btw, are you based in Lagos?

Ihedinobi3:


This too is a leap of logic. I don't see how 1 Timothy 2:10-14 is the reason that Genesis 2-3 is in the Bible. It's a big claim to make. Can you prove it?

How's it a big leap. Didn't he refer to the Story of Adam and Eve Moses gave to us. The story that took place thousands of years before Moses was born.

FatherOfJesus:
Lol, I don’t usually confront, I counter confrontation.

Btw, are you based in Lagos?

I'm based in Lagos.

luvmijeje:


I'm based in Lagos.

Its the first time I’m seeing a lady think in this manner.

I hope to have a facial conversation with you someday.

FatherOfJesus:
Its the first time I’m seeing a lady think in this manner.

I hope to have a facial conversation with you someday.

I can't promise you.

luvmijeje:


I can't promise you.

if you don’t mind, you can email me your contact number. gijap59953@hebgsw.com

It’s a temporary mail, goes off in less than an hour.

luvmijeje:


Gen 4:25

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.


Oya, you give me the scripture that says Adam gave birth to other Children before Cain was exiled.

I think you might be deliberately missing the point here. I have explained my position on this. I don't owe you ap passage saying anything, since I have only been arguing that you are forcing things into the Bible.

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other children. We have that from Genesis 5:4. It just doesn't say explicitly when these children were had. Because it doesn't, it is not unreasonable to assume that at least some of them were born around the same time as Cain and Abel were. In fact, because the Bible is quite detailed about the creation of the original humans, it forces us to acknowledge the existence of siblings by mentioning Cain's wife whose existence can only be explained on one of two ways: (a)unique creation like Adam and Eve or (b)Adam and Eve's child. Since Eve is the mother of all humans (Genesis 3:20), it is clear that there are no human beings that exist who don't ultimately derive from Adam and Eve. This leads us to understand that if Cain had a wife, then he had siblings besides Seth.

This is just using information in the Bible. Your argument distorts what the Bible actually says, attributing things to it with no clear justification for doing so. That is what I'm hoping that you will see.

luvmijeje:


How's it a big leap. Didn't he refer to the Story of Adam and Eve Moses gave to us. The story that took place thousands of years before Moses was born.

Yes he did, obviously. My confusion right now is how cause is following effect in your argument. You appear to suggest that Genesis was written because of 1 Timothy, but 1 Timothy was written more than a thousand years after Genesis, so I don't see how your argument is reasonable.

Ihedinobi3:


Yes he did, obviously. My confusion right now is how cause is following effect in your argument. You appear to suggest that Genesis was written because of 1 Timothy, but 1 Timothy was written more than a thousand years after Genesis, so I don't see how your argument is reasonable.

I never said that. I said the event that took place in the Book of Genesis was the basis used by most of the Authors in the Bible to justified the demonisation and the seeing of women as a second class Citizens.

luvmijeje:


I never said that. I said the event that took place in the Book of Genesis was the basis used by most of the Authors in the Bible to justified the demonisation and the seeing of women as a second class Citizens.

Oh, I understand that now. I suppose the trouble for me now is that you claim that authors in the Bible justified the demonization of women or seeing them as second-class citizens.

Since you quoted 1 Timothy 2, you must be defining demonization and second-class citizen different than I know. Why do you call what Paul said "demonization" or "seeing women as second-class citizens" here?

Ihedinobi3:


I think you might be deliberately missing the point here. I have explained my position on this. I don't owe you ap passage saying anything, since I have only been arguing that you are forcing things into the Bible.

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other children. We have that from Genesis 5:4. It just doesn't say explicitly when these children were had. Because it doesn't, it is not unreasonable to assume that at least some of them were born around the same time as Cain and Abel were. In fact, because the Bible is quite detailed about the creation of the original humans, it forces us to acknowledge the existence of siblings by mentioning Cain's wife whose existence can only be explained on one of two ways: (a)unique creation like Adam and Eve or (b)Adam and Eve's child. Since Eve is the mother of all humans (Genesis 3:20), it is clear that there are no human beings that exist who don't ultimately derive from Adam and Eve. This leads us to understand that if Cain had a wife, then he had siblings besides Seth.

This is just using information in the Bible. Your argument distorts what the Bible actually says, attributing things to it with no clear justification for doing so. That is what I'm hoping that you will see.

Bullshit! Why didn't you quote Gen 5:4 if you are so sure of yourself. I'll quote it. Gen 5:4

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:


As you can see with your eyes, the sons and daughter was after the Exile of Cain. And his sons and daughter weren't exiled like Cain.

How does any man finds a wife..social media, introduced by friends or family, or meet at a club or party or in church or other religious gathering...

The law is dont marry a close or blood relative...thats incest.

luvmijeje:


Bullshit! Why didn't you quote Gen 5:4 if you are so sure of yourself. I'll quote it. Gen 5:4

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:


As you can see with your eyes, the sons and daughter was after the Exile of Cain. And his sons and daughter weren't exiled like Cain.

I thought I had quoted it before, that was why I didn't. Just saw that I hadn't. I did mention it in my very first response on the thread and more than once since. If I was trying to pretend that it said something it doesn't actually say, why would I even offer the reference? Wouldn't it be easy to see that I am lying?

I don't see that passage saying either that the sons and daughters of Adam were born after Cain's exile or that none of them was exiled. We are reading the very same text that you posted. I don't see any "after Cain's exile" there, do you? Do you see any "no other child of Adam's was exiled"? I don't. These are foreign intrusions on the text that you are reading. If you could justify it with some reasoning, then maybe we could see how you see it implied in the text, but so far you have no provided such reasoning.

Ihedinobi3:


Oh, I understand that now. I suppose the trouble for me now is that you claim that authors in the Bible justified the demonization of women or seeing them as second-class citizens.

Since you quoted 1 Timothy 2, you must be defining demonization and second-class citizen different than I know. Why do you call what Paul said "demonization" or "seeing women as second-class citizens" here?

God bless you for that question. The Bible treat women as a person with no agency. As a person that cannot think. As a person that is incapable of leadership. As an extension of a man. And that has done an incalculable damage.

It's the reason most women believes they are incapable of leadership. They believe the highest achievement as a woman is to be married. It's the reason they rely on men to survive. It's the reason they don't strive for more in life. It is the reason they tone down their star because they don't want to hurt the man in their life. It's reason for so much War. It's the reason they hide their intelligence because they don't want to threaten the men they come across.

Religion has done an incalculable damage to the Psyche of women for generations.

Ihedinobi3:


I thought I had quoted it before, that was why I didn't. Just saw that I hadn't. I did mention it in my very first response on the thread and more than once since. If I was trying to pretend that it said something it doesn't actually say, why would I even offer the reference? Wouldn't it be easy to see that I am lying?

I don't see that passage saying either that the sons and daughters of Adam were born after Cain's exile or that none of them was exiled. We are reading the very same text that you posted. I don't see any "after Cain's exile" there, do you? Do you see any "no other child of Adam's was exiled"? I don't. These are foreign intrusions on the text that you are reading. If you could justify it with some reasoning, then maybe we could see how you see it implied in the text, but so far you have no provided such reasoning.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Let's leave it to the reader to be the judge.

luvmijeje:


God bless you for that question. The Bible treat women as a person with no agency. As a person that cannot think. As a person that is incapable of leadership. As an extension of a man. And that has done an incalculable damage.

It's the reason most women believes they are incapable of leadership. They believe the highest achievement as a woman is to be married. It's the reason they rely on men to survive. It's the reason they don't strive for more in life. It is the reason they tone down their star because they don't want to hurt the man in their life. It's reason for so much War. It's the reason they hide their intelligence because they don't want to threaten the men they come across.

Religion has done an incalculable damage to the Psyche of women for generations.

I'm afraid I don't see any reason to believe that anything in the above is true.

9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” 11 And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
12 But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called.
Genesis 21:9-12 (NKJV)

4 Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time.
Judges 4:4 (NIV)

20 My son, keep your father’s command
and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.
Proverbs 6:20 (NIV)

1 The words of King Lemuel, the utterance which his mother taught him:
Proverbs 31:1 (NKJV)

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”
John 20:17 (NKJV)

9 Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles.
Luke 24:9-10 (NKJV)

11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
1 Corinthians 11:11-12 (NKJV)

26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Acts 18:26 (NKJV)

These are by no means the only passages in the Bible that demonstrate the true view of women in the Bible. I see nothing in them to even suggest that your claims are true. There is no doubt that the Bible tells women to submit to male authority, but how this translates to demonizing women or making them second-class citizens is completely lost on me. I just don't see it. It is easy enough to make the accusation, but proving it is what I have never seen anyone do. Perhaps you do know parts of the Scriptures that do teach these things, but I don't know them, so you will have to show them to me.

luvmijeje:


We'll have to agree to disagree. Let's leave it to the reader to be the judge.

I am certainly fine with agreeing to disagree. What I don't believe is that there is any real reasonable doubt apparent in your position. It seems to me as if you just want the Bible to say what you are insisting that it says so that you can have an excuse for your rejection of it, but it is quite glaringly obvious that what you are claiming is not in the Bible at all.

Nonetheless, you have a God-given right to believe anything you want. It is still your responsibility - and yours alone - to deal with the consequences of your choices, so I will leave the matter as you have chosen to.