patrickmuf:
75k weekly is too much for Greenwood...

What exactly has Greenwood done to deserve such pay?

Our players are some of the most overpaid in football...

Considering his talent, potential, and the position he plays this is one of the more reasonable deals we have made recently. AWB was also unproven when we gave him 90k weekly, and he is a defender.
Dr Jones and Dr Rojo discharged themselves from hospital long enough to sign new deals for 75k and 80k weekly.

afrodoc2:


Considering his talent, potential, and the position he plays this is one of the more reasonable deals we have made recently. AWB was also unproven when we gave him 90k weekly, and he is a defender.
Dr Jones and Dr Rojo discharged themselves from hospital long enough to sign new deals for 75k and 80k weekly.

I am comparing his pay to players of similar talents and same age bracket...Saka and Fati earn around 50k weekly or less and just as talented as Greenwood if not more...

I careless of Dr. Jones and Rojo who shouldn't be here in the first place...

As for AWB, we overpaid to sign him and 90k a week is way too much considering what he was earning at Palace...

patrickmuf:
I am comparing his pay to players of similar talents and same age bracket...Saka and Fati earn around 50k weekly or less and just as talented as Greenwood if not more...

I careless of Dr. Jones and Rojo who shouldn't be here in the first place...

As for AWB, we overpaid to sign him and 90k a week is way too much considering what he was earning at Palace...

Martinelli at Assanal is on 90k weekly. Ansu Fati is on 45k and that was his first senior contract, compared to Greenwood who got 35k weekly.

GloryIsaac:


The discussion is how McFred play a role in hindering VDBs excellence for the team.

I have explained it up there that Fernandes bears the same burden that two attacking midfielders bear at Man City.

Which means that when VDB is put to replace Fernandes, he automatically bears same burden, and he can’t function properly with that much on him, Lingard and Perriera were much worse in same position.

And considering putting in a shift, the same is done for any position on the pitch regardless of the team. Leicester’s not special, but in spite of that, Ndidi still brings that long-sought balance to the midfield.

It’s understandable that this might look alien because we’re already familiar with McFred, but as a team looking to dominate the league and the continent at large, these little things matter. Matic could have been the better option in the team if not for old legs.

Those midfielders that you're calling AM in ManCity were not originally AM, the training and tactics made them so. Watching Cancelo, one would think he plays in the midfield for City. That City are able to push forward is not because Rodri is very solid and offers that defensive shield, its because the attackers and other midfielders are very disciplined and stay on their men. They fall back to block the channels and win the ball back asap

afrodoc2:


Martinelli at Assanal is on 90k weekly. Ansu Fati is on 45k and that was his first senior contract, compared to Greenwood who got 35k weekly.

I can only imagine how much Greenwood will be earning by 23 or thereabout...I prefer players to earn their pay rather than get paid because of their potential...

GloryIsaac:


The discussion is how McFred play a role in hindering VDBs excellence for the team.

I have explained it up there that Fernandes bears the same burden that two attacking midfielders bear at Man City.

Which means that when VDB is put to replace Fernandes, he automatically bears same burden, and he can’t function properly with that much on him, Lingard and Perriera were much worse in same position.

And considering putting in a shift, the same is done for any position on the pitch regardless of the team. Leicester’s not special, but in spite of that, Ndidi still brings that long-sought balance to the midfield.

It’s understandable that this might look alien because we’re already familiar with McFred, but as a team looking to dominate the league and the continent at large, these little things matter. Matic could have been the better option in the team if not for old legs.

Actually, I don't see how its any of those 2 fault. VDB has to do more than running into the box and playing those short, safe passes you accuse McFred of

eph12:

Those midfielders that you're calling AM in ManCity were not originally AM, the training and tactics made them so. Watching Cancelo, one would think he plays in the midfield for City. That City are able to push forward is not because Rodri is very solid and offers that defensive shield, its because the attackers and other midfielders are very disciplined and stay on their men. They fall back to block the channels and win the ball back asap

Gundogan for instance is starts at CM but pushes up the pitch as they attack...Most folks look at the position o Gundogan when they attack and think he plays as an attacking midfielder...

If we're that dominant, Pogba too will push up and people will say he plays as an attacking midfielder.

patrickmuf:
I can only imagine how much Greenwood will be earning by 23 or thereabout...I prefer players to earn their pay rather than get paid because of their potential...

Imagine how much Martinelli will be earning by 23 as well, or how much Fati will earn when it is time for him to negotiate his 2nd deal in a Messiless Barca.

eph12:

Actually, I don't see how its any of those 2 fault. VDB has to do more than running into the box and playing those short, safe passes you accuse McFred of

That's unfair criticism

VDB isn't Bruno he is a different player and his strengths are; link up play, short passes and goal predator in the box.

People make this unfair assertion that VDB is suppose to do a Bruno ( play line breaking passes and long passes into the box) VDB isn't that player.


Unfortunately the only person that has scouted and watched VDB extensively on this thread is Kagawa and Afrodoc2 to less degree. Kagawa listed his qualities as far back as 2018 and analayzed what he does best.



If Amaka can't find a system or adjust his system to suit VDB when he plays that's Amaka's fault. He should find another creative player to provide such creativity unfortunately Mcfred can't provide that.

#OleOUT
#EndOLE
#OleMustGo
#EndOLECluelessness
#SackTheFraud
#KillTheBasterd
‼️

afrodoc2:


Imagine how much Martinelli will be earning by 23 as well, or how much Fati will earn when it is time for him to negotiate his 2nd deal in a Messiless Barca.

Greenwood should start delivering the goods because they'll be added scrutiny...

patrickmuf:
Gundogan for instance is starts at CM but pushes up the pitch as they attack...Most folks look at the position o Gundogan when they attack and think he plays as an attacking midfielder...

If we're that dominant, Pogba too will push up and people will say he plays as an attacking midfielder.

Gundogan, technically plays as an attacking midfielder at City. If a team dominates for 60-70 minutes out of 90 and a CM mostly plays in AM position throughout the game, then the initial position does not matter.

One question, how come there is a huge space for Rodri to cover when City surrenders possession (completely)?

patrickmuf:
Greenwood should start delivering the goods because they'll be added scrutiny...

At least i have shown that he is being paid in the same range that upcoming stars in other clubs are getting. Even Hudon Ode is getting 100k weekly.

Now as a highly touted young United forward with recognized potential the scrutiny is already high. Getting paid 50k instead of 75k will not lessen the scrutiny.

nitrogen:


Gundogan, technically plays as an attacking midfielder at City. If a team dominates for 60-70 minutes out of 90 and a CM mostly plays in AM position throughout the game, then the initial position does not matter.

One question, how come there is a huge space for Rodri to cover when City surrenders possession (completely)?

That Cancelo pushes forward does not make him a CM or winger. If we play that dominantly too and are disciplined, McFred will be playing as AM too

afrodoc2:


At least i have shown that he is being paid in the same range that upcoming stars in other clubs are getting. Even Hudon Ode is getting 100k weekly.

Now as a highly touted young United forward with recognized potential the scrutiny is already high. Getting paid 50k instead of 75k will not lessen the scrutiny.

Odoi was almost signed Bayern Munich which skyrocket his value. Who came for firewood?

eph12:

That Cancelo pushes forward does not make him a CM or winger. If we play that dominantly too and are disciplined, McFred will be playing as AM too

What is the origin of this Gundogan CM or AM debate sef?

Panther7:
That's unfair criticism

VDB isn't Bruno he is a different player and his strengths are; link up play, short passes and goal predator in the box.

People make this unfair assertion that VDB is suppose to do a Bruno ( play line breaking passes and long passes into the box) VDB isn't that player.


Unfortunately the only person that has scouted and watched VDB extensively on this thread is Kagawa and Afrodoc2 to less degree. Kagawa listed his qualities as far back as 2018 and analayzed what he does best.



If Amaka can't find a system or adjust his system to suit VDB when he plays that's Amaka's fault. He should find another creative player to provide such creativity unfortunately Mcfred can't provide that.

Then people should stop blaming McFred for everything that happens to the club. At this time, VDB does not fit in, simple. He will need to adjust his game to play fast counter football like Ole wants. It has nothing to do with McFred. If another coach comes tomorrow and prefer the patient build up style, emphasizing on the use of their brain when with the ball or without it, VDB will do better in that system

afrodoc2:


What is the origin of this Gundogan CM or AM debate sef?

Nitrogen said midfielders should not be scoring goals, that we should check other top teams. He goofed by mentioning City, so I brought up Gundogan's stats. Someone that has only 1 assist in a free scoring City side

eph12:

Actually, I don't see how its any of those 2 fault. VDB has to do more than running into the box and playing those short, safe passes you accuse McFred of

They play a role in it because they’re occupying the space of an extra player.

They can’t individually function in their primary role well due to their limitations hence the need to pair them for technically the same role.

At Madrid, Casemiro plays that role.
At Barca, Busquets.
At City, Rodri or Fernandinho.
At Bayern, Kimmich.
At Liverpool (at full strength), Fabinho.
At Chelsea (Pre-Tuchel), Kante.
At PSG, Gueye.

The mentioned players all possess both abilities of McFred, and they aren’t hybrids.

As said earlier, this might look alien because we’re already accustomed to McFred.

eph12:

Nitrogen said midfielders should not be scoring goals, that we should check other top teams. He goofed by mentioning City, so I brought up Gundogan's stats. Someone that has only 1 assist in a free scoring City side

LOL OK. E remain make una draw graph. Everybody has to chip in in terms of goals and assists. That is another aspect in which your man Freddy Krueger struggles. He should be chipping in a few goals na. Abi how you take see am?

Having said that, McFred is not responsible for VDB's struggles. He is just a very intelligent player with okay football skills, and those 2 qualities make him seem like a midfield hyena.

nitrogen:


Gundogan, technically plays as an attacking midfielder at City. If a team dominates for 60-70 minutes out of 90 and a CM mostly plays in AM position throughout the game, then the initial position does not matter.

One question, how come there is a huge space for Rodri to cover when City surrenders possession (completely)?

Exactly.

I thought I explained this well in the initial post but it seems to be misunderstood.

Anyone who watched last night’s game should easily take note of this.

Sterling & Foden on the left, Silva & Mahrez on the right, G.Jesus operating as a false nine.

GloryIsaac:


They play a role in it because they’re occupying the space of an extra player.

They can’t individually function in their primary role well due to their limitations hence the need to pair them for technically the same role.

At Madrid, Casemiro plays that role.
At Barca, Busquets.
At City, Rodri or Fernandinho.
At Bayern, Kimmich.
At Liverpool (at full strength), Fabinho.
At Chelsea (Pre-Tuchel), Kante.
At PSG, Gueye.

The mentioned players all possess both abilities of McFred, and they aren’t hybrids.

As said earlier, this might look alien because we’re already accustomed to McFred.

Did Pogba not pair either of them before he got injured?

What's this accustomed you have been saying? Because of this season, e don turn accustomed? We are saying the system is shit and instead of pointing fingers in the right direction, we are looking for targets we don't like. VDB has not done himself any favors too

eph12:

Then people should stop blaming McFred for everything that happens to the club. At this time, VDB does not fit in, simple. He will need to adjust his game to play fast counter football like Ole wants. It has nothing to do with McFred. If another coach comes tomorrow and prefer the patient build up style, emphasizing on the use of their brain when with the ball or without it, VDB will do better in that system

VDB may still do well under Olé, going by what he has been saying. He’ll do well playing in a possession based style surrounded by players who can pass the ball well. He is very good up the pitch in and around the opponents box.

OGS said recently that the team is playing more with a high line these days in contrast to last season. But then...

afrodoc2:


LOL OK. E remain make una draw graph. Everybody has to chip in in terms of goals and assists. That is another aspect in which your man Freddy Krueger struggles. He should be chipping in a few goals na. Abi how you take see am?

Having said that, McFred is not responsible for VDB's struggles. He is just a very intelligent player with okay football skills, and those 2 qualities make him seem like a midfield hyena.

LOL Tom is scoring enough for both

Fred should have had a goal or two, but his village people are strong. His assists get wasted by the usual suspects

United can do same with a Pogba / Bruno / Matic (or some other capable person).

Rashford & Pogba on the left, Greenwood & Bruno on the right, and an occasional switch to destabilize the opponent’s defensive setup, while Matic sits.

With VDB, it would be Rashford & Bruno on the left, Greenwood & VDB on the right, with the same occasional switch. While Martial or Cavani tension the back line.

The issue with this is that the players must be sharp with the ball at feet, and there must be a capable midfielder behind the attacking 5. Even if it means committing technical fouls occasionally to break up play when the team loses possession.

eph12:

Did Pogba not pair either of them before he got injured?

What's this accustomed you have been saying? Because of this season, e don turn accustomed? We are saying the system is shit and instead of pointing fingers in the right direction, we are looking for targets we don't like. VDB has not done himself any favors too

McFred has been together before this season.

GloryIsaac:
United can do same with a Pogba / Bruno / Matic (or some other capable person).

Rashford & Pogba on the left, Greenwood & Bruno on the right, and an occasional switch to destabilize the opponent’s defensive setup, while Matic sits.

With VDB, it would be Rashford & Bruno on the left, Greenwood & VDB on the right, with the same occasional switch. While Martial or Cavani tension the back line.

The issue with this is that the players must be sharp with the ball at feet, and there must be a capable midfielder behind the attacking 5. Even if it means committing technical fouls occasionally to break up play when the team loses possession.

Apart from a highly capable CDM you need a high line with relatively mobile CBs for this to work. This your permutation dies at the feet of slow and slower (Lindelof and Maguire).

Leyqute:


VDB may still do well under Olé, going by what he has been saying. He’ll do well playing in a possession based style surrounded by players who can pass the ball well. He is very good up the pitch in and around the opponents box.

OGS said recently that the team is playing more high lines these days in contrast to last season. But then...

I am confident he will still do well. I only have problem with people looking for other players to blame for his current situation.

We currently have attackers who always rush their passes, instead of the patient build up VDB is used to. Maybe if injury strikes and he spends some time on the field, he will get used to the system faster.

I saw OGS last presser. Thankfully he recognized the different systems the team have had to play between last season and now and hopefully he finally settles with one and everyone understands their role or get in players that can do the job

GloryIsaac:
United can do same with a Pogba / Bruno / Matic (or some other capable person).

Rashford & Pogba on the left, Greenwood & Bruno on the right, and an occasional switch to destabilize the opponent’s defensive setup, while Matic sits.

With VDB, it would be Rashford & Bruno on the left, Greenwood & VDB on the right, with the same occasional switch. While Martial or Cavani tension the back line.

The issue with this is that the players must be sharp with the ball at feet, and there must be a capable midfielder behind the attacking 5. Even if it means committing technical fouls occasionally to break up play when the team loses possession.

Funny aspect of this is that this is exactly what the coach tries to achieve when playing a diamond formation, because a midfield 3 can’t execute it without the right personnel.

Bet this is why Guardiola goes out of his way to select players.

afrodoc2:


Apart from a highly capable CDM you need a high line with relatively mobile CBs for this to work. This your permutation dies at the feet of slow and slower (Lindelof and Maguire).

I mentioned this in my initial post.

That McFred in addition to occasional brain farts from the CBs is the reason why there’s a problem.

That being said, if United is serious about competing with the big boys locally and on a continental level, this better be fixed.

eph12:

That Cancelo pushes forward does not make him a CM or winger. If we play that dominantly too and are disciplined, McFred will be playing as AM too

With their technical limitations?

Have you seen how McTominay behaves when the ball is passed to him?

To play as AM no be for mouth

GloryIsaac:


McFred has been together before this season.

Pogba injury caused them to play together for some time until Tom got his own injury too last season. Immediately football resumed back, Bruno and Pogba were the first players in our midfield. The season before then Fred barely featured. He was struggling