Jashub:
This has no correlation to what we're discussing. And for your information, Satan was cast from Heaven prior to the book Job. So how does 1914 fit into this; why couldnt have been in another time frame...like the Spanish flu or Bubonic plague or the Crusades; why was it during the era of Charles...or doesnt that sound fishy ?

Secondly, Jesus categorically said His second coming was for judgment ; not scripture editing. So where did the disgruntled Charles get that notion of his from?

Jashub:
The bible says in
1 Thessalonians 5:2" For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief". So how come Charles go this date right when even Jesus Himself did not know...? That's the question I want you to answer logically. Or are you telling us here that Charles prophesies were false?

Jashub:
This has no correlation to what we're discussing. *1.
And for your information, Satan was cast from Heaven prior to the book Job.

*2
So how does 1914 fit into this; why couldnt have been in another time frame...like the Spanish flu or Bubonic plague or the Crusades; why was it during the era of Charles...or doesnt that sound fishy ?


*3
Secondly, Jesus categorically said His second coming was for judgment ; not scripture editing. So where did the disgruntled Charles get that notion of his from?

MaxInDHouse:


You don't understand what "CAST OUT" means my guy!
If Satan has been cast out please what was he doing in the midst of God's sons(angels)?
For your information he was freely moving from heaven to any part of the earth during Job's time! Job 1:7
But after his casting out from heaven in 1914 there was no place for him and his demons again {Revelations 12:8} moreover Satan can't be driven out from heaven when the Born Again Christians have not conquered him that's why Jesus was overjoyed when his disciples began the work that will justify Satan's ousting from heaven! Luke 10:19




Before the judgment he will first separate the sheep from the goats! Matthew 25:32
The separation work is what Jesus is doing presently that's why millions are running away from the falsehood of TRINITY {Revelations 18:4} and flocking into the TRUTH!

Janosky:




[b]Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.

Overview of the prophecy.
God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.​—Daniel 4:​1, 10-​16.

The prophecy’s initial fulfillment.
The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:​20-​22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:​25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.​—Daniel 4:​34-​36.

Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:​17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”​—Daniel 2:​31-​44.

Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-​27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:​30-​33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.​—Matthew 11:29.

What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent?
In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-​24; 31:​2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.

What does the tree’s being chopped down mean?
Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.​—1 Chronicles 29:23.

What do the “seven times” represent?
The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *​—2 Kings 25:​1, 8-​10.

How long are the “seven times”?
They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:​6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.​—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

Jashub:
Error number one :The Book of Job never said Satan was roaming from heaven to the earth; look what it said[b] "Where have you come from?” the LORD asked Satan. Satan answered the LORD, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”(Job 2:2). This means literally that Satan was not in heaven. So don't add your own jara according to revelation (22:18). [/b]


Error number two :The word Cast out means to boot, dismiss, expel, kick out...and the hebrew word
לְנַדוֹת( this means expel). So the interpretation is still intact and it means the same thing with my bible. So only God knows where your perverted interpretation came from.

Error number three : Jesus said specifically in Matt25:32 that[b]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.[/b] So where was the gathering of the nations? Where was my nation when Charles chose to from his own gathering?

Jashub:
[b][/b] [s]You're not intelligent enough to back your claims. So get lost[/s]

Janosky:


Revelation 12:7-9 , God gave to Jesus @ Rev1:1.
Then war broke out in heaven. Michael(P) and his angels fought against the dragon,(Q) and the dragon and his angels(R) fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent(S) called the devil,(T) or Satan,(U) who leads the whole world astray.(V) He was hurled to the earth,(W) and his angels with him.

Revelation 12:7-9 , God gave to Jesus @ Rev1:1.
"War broke out in heaven"
Bros , where you there?
Please STOP DECEIVING yourself

Janosky:


Jashhub DUBIOUSLY dodge Revelation 12:7-9.
The Revelation 1:1,12:7-9 given to Jesus Christ, this artful dodger,Jashub says it's his personal "insecurities & low self esteem"
Your ego is more important than the holy scriptures.
Issorait !




Revelation 12:7-9 is a goal, devastating knock to your overbloated ego.

Jashub:
So where does your sense of morality stem from? Because last time I checked, Atheisim has no sense of morality.

hakeem4:


I find this question actually very insulting.
If you need god or religion to be a good person, then you’re ultimately a bad person. It means you’re doing good cause you want to get an eternal reward?

Jashub:
But the question was not directed at you ; it was directed at MaxIntheHouse. Or are you now his advocate? Oh...I forgot you're jobless and looking for relevance

Janosky:


Bros, this is a public forum , stop all this childish trantrums you're throwing upandan.
Very immature of you.


Revelation 12:7-9 PROVED that your claim at Job2:1-2 is faulty and FALSE.

Bros, swallow your overbloated ego or better still, dump it into your dustbin.

Jashub:
[s][/s] You're a very deluded fellow. I asked a question but you were too stupid to answer it. . Instead of being matured and providing factual answers that correlate with the discussion at hand, you miserably started quoting out context pretending not to see the question. Which just goes to show you're pathetic in your miserable thinking.

Jashub:
You're diverting. Kindly answer the questions or shut the fvck up.

Janosky:


Growing old is very mandatory but growing up is optional.
Bros, grow up !

Jashub:
You're diverting. Kindly answer the questions or shut the fvck up.

hakeem4:
I get my morals from biology and society.

Do unto others what you want others to do to you.

We don’t require divine permission to know right from wrong.

We don’t need tablets administered to us 10 at a time on pain of death to be able to have a moral argument; no! We have the reasoning and moral suasion of Socrates and of our own, we don’t need dictators to give us right from wrong

Thank you

hakeem4:
I get my morals from biology and society.

Do unto others what you want others to do to you.

We don’t require divine permission to know right from wrong.

We don’t need tablets administered to us 10 at a time on pain of death to be able to have a moral argument; no! We have the reasoning and moral suasion of Socrates and of our own, we don’t need dictators to give us right from wrong

Thank you

Jashub:
Error number one :The Book of Job never said Satan was roaming from heaven to the earth; look what it said[b] "Where have you come from?” the LORD asked Satan. Satan answered the LORD, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on[/b].”(Job 2:2). This means literally that Satan was not in heaven. So don't add your own jara according to revelation (22:18).

Error number two :The word Cast out means to boot, dismiss, expel, kick out...and the hebrew word
לְנַדוֹת( this means expel). So the interpretation is still intact and it means the same thing with my bible. So only God knows where your perverted interpretation came from.

Error number three : Jesus said specifically in Matt25:32 that[b]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.[/b] So where was the gathering of the nations? Where was my nation when Charles chose to from his own gathering?

MaxInDHouse:


Satan was answering God in the midst of loyal angels that's why God asked him the question since Satan is no more part of the loyal angels!
Meanwhile that's not an addition rather it's called full understanding rather it's Kumuyi you ne[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=99465061]

Satan was answering God in the midst of loyal angels that's why God asked him the question since Satan is no more part of the loyal angels!
Meanwhile that's not an addition rather it's called full understanding rather it's Kumuyi you need to go and ask where God said people mustn't drink alcoholic beverages or where God said women mustn't wear jewelries and make-ups!



Satan has not been CAST OUT not until Jesus' earthly assignment was successful Sir!





So you're expecting a literal gathering of people of all the nations shey?

Well it simply means all the nations will be visited by his true disciples whose preaching and teaching determines will their future, remember that all those who refused to believe in the preaching and teaching of Jesus' disciples has been judged already {John 3:18} so it doesn't literally means gathering people in a geographical location Sir!

MaxInDHouse:


Satan was answering God in the midst of loyal angels that's why God asked him the question since Satan is no more part of the loyal angels!
Meanwhile that's not an addition rather it's called full understanding rather it's Kumuyi you need to go and ask where God said people mustn't drink alcoholic beverages or where God said women mustn't wear jewelries and make-ups!



Satan has not been CAST OUT not until Jesus' earthly assignment was successful Sir!





So you're expecting a literal gathering of people of all the nations shey?

Well it simply means all the nations will be visited by his true disciples whose preaching and teaching determines will their future, remember that all those who refused to believe in the preaching and teaching of Jesus' disciples has been judged already {John 3:18} so it doesn't literally means gathering people in a geographical location Sir!

Jashub:

1. Bros you're lying swine and I'm not intrested in your pathetic explanations. Where are you biblical references that say Satan was not cast from Heaven in Job...? Kindly provide the answers from scripture directly abeg.

2.Also provide the biblical references that say Satan was not cast out until Jesus earthly ministry was successful.

3. I cannot accept the last lie you told because it doesnt sit well with Christian any belief system I know(except if you're brainwashed by Charles ) . And that verse (not according to your lame explanation) doesn't say that Jesus' disciples will preach anything. Rather it states categorically that Jesus Himself will return to judge men according to their works.

MaxInDHouse:

Guy you will continue to argue and argue and argue with nothing to show for your arguments!
I don't need to continue spoon-feeding you with the scriptures, if Satan is an angel in heaven before he rebelled against God then there must be a time when he was cast out and that time was later not before the Bible book of Revelation! {Revelations 1:1} Things that must shortly come to pass not things that has come to pass!


Revelations 1:1 compare to Revelations 12:7-12





Keep waiting for all the nations to be gathered literally!

Jashub:
No biblical references; not even a single sentence with a biblical verse to support the fumes of lies you have been tossing all day. Truly pathetic. Well such should always be expected from Charles and his merry band of brooding liars.

Janosky:


Luke 24:21, the same manner the disciples said "God's kingdom will arrive immediately".
Bros, did their prediction come to pass?

1 Samuel 16:6,10, the Prophet of Jehovah gave a false prediction.
Bros, did his prediction come to pass?

Is Galatians 2:11-14 missing in your Bible?
1 Samuel 16:6,10 , Galatians 2:11-14 and Luke 24:21, the Bible truth is bitter.

Until you provide proof that 1 Samuel 16:6,10 , Galatians 2:11-14 and Luke 24:21 is missing in your Bible, your claims against JWs on this thread is GIBBERISH.

Xmuslim:
if prophets in the bible gave a false prophesy, is that not a sign that the religion is not from all knowing being? Both Islam and Christianity have histories of fake prophecies.

Jashub:
So as an atheist, your standard for morals comes from what precisely? And if you're saying biology and society then animals too should have the same sense of morals as we have...right?


Do you know that science and Socratic logic is based on assumptions you can't prove...

hakeem4:

I am not an expert on animal politics or psychology, but I can state a few things from which I have studied

To go beyond primates, even in bats, a female will share food with a friend to save the friend’s life after a night or two of unsuccessful hunting, and usually, the friend will reciprocate at other times; but when an individual fails to reciprocate, others become more reluctant to come to her aid. Through the cold calculus of death, natural selection can therefore work against selfishness and in favour of generosity and reciprocation.

This seems a fundamental instinct in certain other animals as well, and arguably, our civil laws and religious beliefs are themselves products of evolution that function to codify and enforce these prehistoric, preliterate moral “codes.”

Janosky:

Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.

Overview of the prophecy.
God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.​—Daniel 4:​1, 10-​16.

The prophecy’s initial fulfillment.
The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:​20-​22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:​25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.​—Daniel 4:​34-​36.

Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:​17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”​—Daniel 2:​31-​44.

Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-​27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:​30-​33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.​—Matthew 11:29.

What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent?
In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-​24; 31:​2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.

What does the tree’s being chopped down mean?
Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.​—1 Chronicles 29:23.

What do the “seven times” represent?
The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *​—2 Kings 25:​1, 8-​10.

How long are the “seven times”?
They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:​6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.​—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
Note: October, 1914 is the same period that the first world war began....
("Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the devil has been hurled down, having great anger,)