[b]See: [/b]https://www.nairaland.com/2783928/intellectual-discussion-black-people-lower#40919933

My post above that has now been unlocked.

Hello,

Could someone please unlock my post in...

https://www.nairaland.com/2783928/intellectual-discussion-black-people-lower

Oddly enough that was my first post. Usually it bans you if you post a lot or try and change a post. This one closed my post and banned me on my first post in a couple weeks. Someone needs to tweak the ban algorithm.


that said, thanks

I knew this was pleep as soon as I saw the title of the thread.

Give it up pleep you've been on the same stuff for 3-4 years now. You had the same argument between your self and physicsPHD 3-4 years ago. except it was concerning Jews. You've rehashed the same topic countless times now. Matter of fact I just replied to one of your nonsense topics a couple months ago dealing with the same thing( https://www.nairaland.com/2233409/black-race-iq-intelligence-eugenics ) .....It's getting old.

If you have personal demons because someone "lied to you" about African history or what ever it was you said had happened to you, then deal with that. If you need assistance in dealing with it at least be upfront about the fact so everyone knows what the deal is.

I feel like I'm the only one who remembers pleeps issues.

musicwriter:
@OP.

I think every other language would do what you're asking, cause it appears to be natural to all languages.

@All

I'm looking for KEYBOARD for indigenous Nigerian languages. Igbo keyboard, Yoruba keyboard, Hausa keyboard, e.t.c. Anybody know where I can buy one?.

True but that's not the point of contention.
That's almost like asking how are nouns/adjectives used in a language or what's the word for tree, then someone says well all languages have adjectives either before or after the noun and a word for tree.

The point is to see how logic is conceived/processed in a given set of languages, for compilation purposes not for comparative purposes or to state what is unique to any given language.

words are used to linguistically encapsulate phenomena for use in communication. We all share the same fundamental reality(just different areas/constructions of it) so we are going to see a large overlap in phenomena. As a result words are going to encapsulate similar things and grammar is probably going to overlap even more in content(example: logical concepts)/if not structure of that content(procedure those concepts take).


Semantics war !!!! ....sorry, saw a chance and had to use it

LordBabs:
Na so. Hows the semantics war going?

semantics war ....now I have to find a reason to use that in a conversation

Radoillo:



...An old chant I knew as a child, which we used to start off children's stories, just came to me. In that chant, É- è-é means 'no'... but it never means yes - and it certainly doesn't mean yes and no simultaneously.

he already acouted for both yes and no(see below) ...now you see my issue

[T]he number 2 is encapsulated in the Igbo mystical idiom of ‘the two words of God’, namely eeye/Aa (yes) and ee - ehimba (no). It is only human beings that add a third word namely: Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no), which introduces obscurity, falsehood, deception, fraud and other evils’ (1997:34).

well at least i'm not alone in my confusion

Sooo...

3. Does Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no) mean "yes" and "no" simultainiously?

Why is this story odd to anyone?


[img]http://ndebe.files./2009/08/igbogirlwedding.jpg[/img]

It's only odd because missionaries got into some peoples heads.



I say do you.

NOTE: I'm still working on the medu neter addition but while looking through my notes came across something that caught my eye...

Quick question for the Igbo speakers amoung us

It is no surprise, therefore, that this complementary duality cannot but frame the way the Igbo think about all facets of existence. Umeh, a Professor of Estate Management but also chief priest to the Idemili shrine in Nobi, Southeastern Nigeria, a diviner and herbalist, adds an explanatory note to these endless pairings:

[T]he number 2 is encapsulated in the Igbo mystical idiom of ‘the two words of God’, namely eeye/Aa (yes) and ee - ehimba (no). It is only human beings that add a third word namely: Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no), which introduces obscurity, falsehood, deception, fraud and other evils’ (1997:34).

While not wishing to challenge Umeh’s mystical insight, for which I have no competence, I would add that human beings’ addition of a third word is an indication of human limitations, of the inability to make definitive statements that can only emanate from God. This would also seem to account for the conceptual emphasis on

I'm confused here about the "third word" ...Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no)

1. Does Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no) mean "and"?
2. Does Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no) mean "or"?
3. Does Ee - ee - eh (yes and no or yes-no) mean "yes" and "no" simultainiously?


The way that was phrased throws me off a bit.
Thanks in advance

Radoillo:


The inflections are on the vowels, no matter where they are in the word. Niger-Congo languages are very..."vowelocentric" (excuse the coinage )
For example:
élílí - thread/string/rope.

èlìlì - electric cat fish

**Slaps face** yes that make sense given the vowels are the "voice" of the word. I should have guessed that actually.

Radoillo:


The most popular example of this from the Igbo language

1. ákwá - cry (noun)
2. àkwá - egg
3. ákwà - cloth
4. àkwà - bed
5. àkwà - (same tone as bed) bridge

Also I notice the inflection is at the first and last letter(phoneme). Is that standard or can it be anywere in the word? I thought it was at the start of any syllable where you might find an inflection point.

If so could you give an example of a word with the inflecion in the midde?
The word doesn't have to have as many meanings as above, 2 or 3 will work fine to illustrate the point.

I see what your saying, sort like if I were to say "put it on the bed"

It could mean bed you sleep in


It could also mean truck bed




Its just determined by the situational context.
What you're close to and what's being put "on the bed" (you wouldn't put a car motor on the bed you sleep in ....or would you )

Radoillo:

4. àkwà - bed
5. àkwà - (same tone as bed) bridge

Is the distinction between both contextual?
If so could you give an example?

@bigfrancis21

Last time I did this someone(I don't know if it was you or not) put one word that had 5-8 meanings based on tone infliction. Could you post such a word now? Just one word and the different meaning based on tone(\,|,/) nothing crazy.

I'm working on adding a Medu Neter(ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics) listing right now. Trying to decide what to put in it.

Thanks

tpiander:
Op

every culture has logic.

what you are looking for is the form of the logic, not the measurement of how the logic stands in relation to your own.

Of course "every culture has logic." ...that's why I asked in the first place

Language is one of the primary ways in which it is expressed though not exclusively. Even things like spiritual practices/concepts contain useful logic notions with a definite high lite on divination practices. Though at this moment I'm asking about language proper.


NOTE: this is not a comparison piece .....it's a compendium piece.
(I get the impression that wasn't understood given the question)

bigfrancis21:
Wow!

How did you retrieve those posts from the nairaland loss?

Magic!! ..... ...... nah, it's just the wayback machine https://web.archive.org/web/


Man you don't know how big of a shot that data wipe was for me. Alot of my "intellectual thought" goes into many of my post since I don't utilize any other medium(private writings, blogs, academic journals, book writing, etc.)

I've never been the same(posting wise) since. It's like I have a great idea and want to write something ....but can't be bothered.

Language YORUBA
by Macof


Green= Awo Ewe
Grey = Awo Iru
Gold(goldish brown)? = Awo wura
Silver/Steel colour = Awo fadaka
Yellow = pupa-...?/Awo Iyeye
Pink = pupa-feere
Blue = Awo Aro/Awo Sanma
Brown = Awo Aragi/buraun/burauni
Orange = Awo Osan
Purple = Awo Aluko
Indigo = Awo Aro

Basically except for funfun, dudu, pupa...colours are named after the most popular object with that colour
Ewe = leaf
Iyeye = a yellow fruit from a tree who's leaves are used for medicine
Aluko = woodcock, it's species are purple feathered in Yorubaland
Iru = locust bean

So to figure out the name of a colour, think of the most common thing with that colour
Our ancestors were very brilliant

RandomAfricanAm:



**Old man fist shake**
Dang, You are making me want to revive a thread I made on "the logic embedded in different languages".
(It was a thread lost in the big data wipe last year) After that data wipe I got pissed and left nairaland for months... still not all the way back

I'm curious about...
1. the Literal meaning of the word Awo
2. the semantic meaning of the word Awo
3. the function of the word Awo in relation to others


It looks to me that given some set/array of attributes
Object = [mass, position, color,.........,etc.]

The "logical" function of Awo is to denote/extract the color associated/embedded in the set/array of attributes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awo (Object) -> Color.Object -> Color.[mass, position, color ,.........,etc.] -> color

Awo (Ewe) -> Color.Ewe -> Color.[mass.16 measuring units, position.[x=1000, y=1300, z=1200], color.green ,.........,etc.] -> green

Awo Ewe -> green
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Which leads me back to the question of what does Awo mean that allows it to be used as such?


Note: My apologies about the "longwindedness" of the post. While my self training is in African world views(history/culture/spirituality). My formal training is software engineering/computer science which deals with languages in a different/distinct manner then what a pure linguist would, hence the weird question

To be honest, I didn't understand everything you have here

But I understand you are confused about "Awo"
Awo(Ahworh) simply means colour, appearance..maybe even description
Awo Ewe would mean colour of a leaf/leaf's colour

To describe something green would be "alawo ewe" = that which has the colour of a leaf

Language IGBO
by Bigfrancis21

I don't think its an odd question. Rather I think its an intelligent one. From your write-up I see some grammatical similarities between AAVE and Igbo. Most of the features you outlined exists in Igbo as well.

1) Tone/Pitch: In Igbo tones/pitch can change a statement from a command to a question. For example?

a)
Command: Unu naabo no n'ilo. You two stay outside.
Question: Unu naabo no n'ilo? You two are outside?
The difference in speech in both sentences comes from the tone of 'no'. In the command question, the 'no' has a falling inflection and in the second it has a rising inflection.

b)
Command: O si gi puo ebe a. He/she said you leave here.
Question: O si gi puo ebe a? He/she asked you to leave here?

O is the pronoun for he/she/it. Igbo doesn't differentiate between masculine and feminine pronouns. 'si' means 'say/said/tell/told'. 'gi' means you/your. 'puo' means 'leave'. 'ebe a' literally means 'this place'. Or it means 'here'.

2) Conditionals using an event / consequence notation

Wow. This is so common in Igbo. In fact Igbo speakers rarely use 'if' statements to express event/consequence notation. The tone of the statement portrays the meaning.

a)
Conditional: Nwoke, I jee ebe afu, agwo ga-ata gi. (Man, you go there, snake will bite you)
Conditional: Agwo afu taa gi, o tanye gi oya. (That snake bites you, it gives you poison/sickness)
Conditional: O tanye gi oya, I nwuo. (It gives you poison/sickness, you die).

If statements are only averagely used in Igbo daily speech. The if statement in Igbo is, 'o bulu na'. Literally, 'if it is that'. For eg,

O bulu na I jee ebe afu, agwo ga-ata gi.

3) Neutral/Question Feature: One other feature common to both Igbo and Ebonics which you forgot to mention is the neutral/question feature whereby one statement can be expressed neutrally and inquisitively. This is common in English as well.

a)
Neutral: Fa tupulu ibu Emeka n'ilo. They threw out Emeka's load outside.
Question: Fa tupulu ibu Emeka n'ilo? They threw out Emeka's load outside?

b)
Neutral: O kpoo kita na-asi o na-abia. He called now saying he's coming.
Question: O kpoo kita na-asi o na-abia? He called now saying he's coming? (Let's assume its a he the 'o' represents).

This feature may be available in other Nigerian languages as well.

4) The feature you mentioned about making new words by combining old words or based on their features is common in Igbo. Many modern Igbo words which hitherto weren't existing have been made that way. For example:

Aeroplane: our ancestors rarely saw aeroplanes or knew what it was so there isn't an age-long Igbo word for it. It had to be coined from its characteristics. Ugbo enu = air boat.
Car: Ugbo ana = land boat.
Train: Ugbo igwe = Iron boat
Vegetable: akwukwo nni = food leaf. Akwukwo also means paper in Igbo.
Mobile phone: ekwe nti = ear barrel/drum. Ekwe is an Igbo musical instrument that makes sounds when struck with a wooden object. Since mobile phones also make sounds too, it can as well be called 'ekwe'. And since its used on the ear, therefore, it is ekwe nti!

This is a repost from back before the big wipe in may 2014. I was able to recover chunks of data from before the big wipe and decided to repost this and one other thread because it had potential to be a stand out contribution. I wasn't able to get all of it so I'm largely starting over.

Me, @bigfrancis21, and one or two other people(notably a linguist named @Hernyolar who was speaking on proper notation of tone) had some good stuff going but I can't remember anything but a nice conversation about different perspectives on how to look at "if statements" in igbo along with general tone issues (\,|,/) across African language families with the linguist.

@Macof conversation about color in Yoruba made me finally revive this thread.

Without further ado....

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[size=14pt]How does your language handle logical statements?[/size]

For instance in AAVE(African American vernacular English)...

1. I can use tone/pitch to change a statement from being a command to a question.

Command( Neutral tone: "you two stay in the front yard" )
Response "ok, understood"

Question( High tone: "you two stay in the front yard" )
Response "yes sir, that's where he told us to stay"

Note: There is no need for extra terms/determinatives like "you two (should/need to) stay in the front yard" or
"(will/are)you two stay(ing) in the front yard" to distinguish between the two because the pitch does that.


2. I can state conditionals using an event / consequence notation.

Conditional("man you go over there, you getting bit by that snake" )
Conditional("you get bit by that snake, you getting poisoned" )
Conditional("you get poisoned, you gone die" )

Note: There is no need for "if" / "then" / "while" statements. The conditional deals with events that contain consequences somewhere along the point of experiencing those events.


3. I can make a neutral statement using a double negative

Qualitative("I don't like the beach, I also don't not like the beach" )

Note: The idea of double negatives(two negatives make a positive) is not used. Nor is the European concept of dualism(if this is good that is bad / if this bad that is good). Here the negation of the extremes is used to detail the extent(wiggle room) at the neutral point.


So what are some of the "logical features" of your language?
One thing of interest that I noticed was the making of new words being built from combining other words(they did this a lot in ancient Egypt). My favorite was a village guy calling a car a "land-boat". I assume starting with the grammatical Idea of "boat" as...

"boat" = "Movement(transportation) method(over) medium(water)" = "transportation over water"

when you add "land" you are changing the value of medium(water) by inserting "land" making...

"land-boat"= "medium(land)" - "Movement(transportation) method(over) medium(water)" = "transportation over land water"

When we look at English we find a lot of pre & suffixes that don't mean much outside the context of their relation to other words. Few use words like (pre, auto, post, -ism, -can,...) on there own.

---

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Context:
My background is software engineering with a focus of interest dealing principally with game design. Which obviously comprises things like Artificial Intelligence to deal with how computer controlled entities move around their artificial environment. Awhile back I noticed that the logic fundamentals of programming languages were simply if, then, else, and, etc. etc. statements completely stripped of "meaning". Which isn't a big deal until you look at the foundation and see that this is the continuation of plato / aristotle lines of reasoning.

In these schools of thought you make a split between the "thinking(rational) self" and the "feeling(emotional) self". Afterwards you declare the "thinking self" a good thing to be promoted and the "feeling self" a bad thing to be suppressed. Western logic fundamentals extends this and deals almost exclusively with the rational at the expense of the emotional. So by the time you deal with complex A.I There is no foundation to draw from because at the very beginning it was declared by the likes of plato / aristotle as a bad thing to be suppressed.

To put it simply I felt like my work & brain was simply furthering of European cultural institutions at the expense of exploring & furthering my own. So I now want to look behind the curtain at those African cultural institutions and ask...

[size=14pt]How does your language handle logical statements?[/size]