USADiasporan:

I tried watching the videos in your thread, but for some reason my browser crashes every time. What do they say in the videos?

Try clicking the button on the bottom right side of the video to watch it on YouTube.
Also if the page takes a while to load that's normal, just give it a bit.

Luckily people aren't waiting around for folks to decide if they "should go" or if they're "welcome" or not.

African Americans in Africa
https://www.nairaland.com/1455678/african-americans-africa-find-claim

Hey Tony,
sorry I saw this post and said to myself I'd reply in the morning then forgot about it.

1. No I think kid only goes by kidstranglehold & stranglehold(Given that it's the holidays he's probably with his family right now)

2. Slight possibility ...sure. Just know that possibility and proof are to different things. Possibilities are what you follow till you find proof. In scientific parlance "possibility" is commonly referred to as hypothesis.

3. I have no reason to believe there were any colonies along the west African coast.(at most there might have been trade but I have no evidence)

4. Yes I'm familiar with them. My understanding is they claim to have come from southern Yemen so boat would be the obvious thought. There were trade relations between the Swahili coast and the Great Zimbabwe area so I could see them following trade routs inland.
[img]http://3.bp..com/-O3_4vA7z3JI/UIVzPXfh8vI/AAAAAAAAEM0/NigJJpKe1Xw/s1600/Map_of_the_Periplus.jpg[/img]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Map_of_the_Periplus_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.jpg

As far as the land routs my understanding is that A. Abyssinia was a Hebrew country before converting to Christianity. B. Abyssinia invaded Yeman because Christians were being persecuted by Hebrews. C. Before the founding of islam there were Hebrews in Somalia who are now an outcast caste(the 'Yibir') in Somali society.
http://books.google.com/books?id=gYcv2qE1pH8C&lpg=PT38&dq=somali%20outcast%20jewish&pg=PT38#v=onepage&q=somali%20outcast%20jewish&f=false

Which points to there being Hebrews around the coast of north east Africa I could easily see them walking from Somalia to Kenya then following trade routes inland.
(Note: I'd suggest you check the dates on everything I said to see which scenario line up date wise)

5. My stance on the Yoruba stems from my over arching stance on all Africans. Which is the commonality seen in Africans stem from a common habitat and cultural relations in the green Sahara. After the Sahara dried out this common culture spread out west, south, and east with trade relations being kept by way of the Sahel and Nile(Blue & White). Around 1000BC both the Bantu & Tamazight "People of the green Sahara" migrated to the north and south of the continent. Around 800-1200 AD Muslim incursions pushed those "People of the green Sahara" who didn't want to convert down the Niger, Volta, & Lake chad rivers inland. This is around the time we find that the Akan, Fon, Edo, Yoruba, Igbo, Bamaleki, Congo, Etc come on the scene.

Now that's not set in stone but that's my political (hypothesis / starting point) when talking migrations and the founding of the "forest kingdoms/empires".

Note: My base stance isn't based on a particular affinity for any particular people it's based on looking at the overarching migration and geological patterns. After that then I look at specific groups of people. I feel that allows me to cut out any obviously contradictory scenarios.


Good luck on the research!!!

Sorry buddy you don't get the privilege of dodging the points raised here cause I will call you out.
Answer, keep running, or go home your choice. Post# 68 & 67



and Since you like the gifs so much ...here's another for you while I wait.
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Where do they find these lightweights SMH

birdman:

Cell phones are not just a status symbol. For communities where there were no land lines, this infrastructure cost can now be skipped, and many people are able to do business and communicate at much lower costs. The benefits of this technology generation jump is well known to those who actually research the continent. Google high speed internet by air is one project piggybacking on this concept. There are grocery stores, banks etc that have stayed afloat precisely because of cell phone availability

Yawn ...You know darn well the point I was making(That the power grid is over taxed by use of luxury items that the infrastructure can't handle) whether that be electricity, gas, or roads. Try again.

birdman:
Why would YOU go to school to become a neurosurgeon, when your communities (that you highlighted) are better suited for agriculture. Last I checked, many dont even have past basic hospitals. To carry your logic even further, why study to become an astronaut when being an entertainer is the most visible sign of success. See how dumb you sound? Do you realize that there are many traveling neurosurgeons who go back and forth on continents practising for free many times? The Nigerian surgeon may not be resident, but at least he can be called upon for goodwill missions occasionally.

If we followed your crappy logic, we wouldn't have a satellite with locally staffed scientist passing down technological know how. Neither would Kenya have an IT hub that is becoming a hotspot on the continent. Your views, to put it mildly, are nonsensical. They are the kind of policies an idi amin would make, because that is the only thing that makes sense to his simple mind.

And he still tries ...my point still stands "If they wanted to do medicine primary care, nursing, and pharmacology would be the focus until you have the infrastructure to support "specialty medicine"

Especially considering you were the one who stated

birdman:
No young talent or graduate is going to miss a chance at expanded potential in the big city, even if it ends up being a mirage. What 23 year old graduate wants to risk becoming the 43 year old man with no future in a nameless small town.

The brain drain argument was also echoed by Fashola recently. They forget that the Nigerian who became a star neurosurgeon in the US would be a store clerk at some nameless company had he stayed behind.

The brain drain is the result, not the cause

I.E My point still stands

birdman:
Lol! See pot calling kettle black. Put the skunk weed down brah.

Look who's talking SMH ...now what about the topic of Malcolm and king(You know, what this thread is actually about)

birdman:

Very true. But then, I wonder...do you really own what you are unable to protect? Black wall street is still history after is was brutally taken down. Perhaps Malcolm's message is more relevant to the south than you realize

Considering that the damage done to Tulsa Oklahoma is exactly what I mean when I say...

"just like Haiti and other African countries they experienced that when you have "your own", Europeans uses economic & military means to control or manipulate that space."

I'd say my position is still within it's proper context. especially considering it was civil rights legislation that opened the space to politically control the space you live in. I.E it was the civil rights legislation that allowed Malcolm's idea to be politically feasible. Now if you want it to be militarily feasible also ...buy a bunch of guns and train the people(shrugs).

Though when you control the political apparatus of the locality you also control the law enforcement. So it's actually a two for one deal. If you want an African American politically/"militarily" run area such as Malcolm envisioned move to one of the counties listed on the prior page. Though you still have to deal with...(see your own comment below)

birdman:
No young talent or graduate is going to miss a chance at expanded potential in the big city, even if it ends up being a mirage. What 23 year old graduate wants to risk becoming the 43 year old man with no future in a nameless small town.

The brain drain argument was also echoed by Fashola recently. They forget that the Nigerian who became a star neurosurgeon in the US would be a store clerk at some nameless company had he stayed behind.

The brain drain is the result, not the cause

That's neither here nor there... not only is it readily apparent that the brain drain is the "result, not the cause" we also know what it is the result of(under development caused by European enslavement /colonization of African peoples) and that the talented are the means by which that underdevelopment is corrected.

Now a better conversation would be why do we go to school for things which we have not the infrastructure to support? Be it on the continent or in the diaspora you see people trying to walk before they crawl. People in the diaspora Spending money on stupid flashy status symbols instead of using it to open a grocery store, bank, or buy/pay off your home. People on the continent with flashy cell phones and tvs electronics(there happy now?) and can't keep the electricity on 48 hours.

Why the hell would that "Nigerian who became a star neurosurgeon" go to school in a field that his/her country has not the infrastructure to support? If they wanted to do medicine primary care, nursing, and pharmacology would be the focus until you have the infrastructure to support "specialty medicine".

Diaspora & continent with a** backward priorities wasting great talent

Just to make it absolutely plain the position of Malcolm to be separate from Europeans and have/manage our own etc etc
Was already largely achieved by lots of African Americans in the south. As such his vision held less meaning to southern African Americans. Because just like Haiti and other African countries they experienced that when you have "your own", Europeans uses economic & military means to control or manipulate that space.

Southern African Americans already had/ currently have what Malcolm envisioned they were/ currently are trying to solidify control over it. The problem today is similar to other African peoples which is brain drain.

(Graduates leaving to maintain other peoples cities in exchange for a shiny home & night life instead of building their own, back home)

**It was/is not an ether/or proposition it's an order of execution issue**

This also reminds me of how I have to laugh when I here someone say "we need to start our own town" or "black folks need to get some land" That's my automatic que that the person isn't from the black belt.

[size=16pt]List of U.S. counties with African-American majority populations in 2000 [/size]

Alabama
Bullock County (69.5%)
Dallas County (69.4%)
Greene County (80.4%)
Hale County (58.3%)
Lowndes County (72.8%)
Macon County (81.5%)
Marengo County (51.7%)
Perry County (68.0%)
Sumter County (73.6%)
Wilcox County (72.2%)

Arkansas
Chicot County (53.96%)
Lee County (57.24%)
Phillips County (59.04%)
St. Francis County (52%)
Crittenden County (51%)

Florida
Gadsden County (57.1%)

Georgia
Baker County (50.4%)
Burke County (51.0%)
Calhoun County (60.6%)
Clay County (60.5%)
Clayton County (51.6%)
DeKalb County (54.2%)
Dougherty County (60.1%)
Hancock County (77.8%)
Jefferson County (56.3%)
Macon County (59.5%)
Randolph County (59.5%)
Stewart County (61.5%)
Talbot County (61.6%)
Taliaferro County (60.3%)
Terrell County (60.7%)
Warren County (59.5%)
Washington County (53.2%)

Louisiana
East Carroll Parish (67.3%)
Madison Parish (60.3%)
Orleans Parish (67.3%)
St. Helena Parish (52.4%)
Tensas Parish (55.4%)
West Feliciana Parish (50.5%)

Maryland
Baltimore City (64.3%)
Prince George's County (62.7%)

Mississippi
Adams County (52.8%)
Bolivar County (65.1%)
Claiborne County (84.1%)
Clay County (56.3%)
Coahoma County (69.2%)
Copiah County (51.0%)
Hinds County (61.1%)
Holmes County (78.7%)
Humphreys County (71.5%)
Issaquena County (62.8%)
Jasper County (52.9%)
Jefferson County (86.5%)
Jefferson Davis County (57.4%)
Kemper County (58.1%)
Leflore County (67.7%)
Marshall County (50.4%)
Noxubee County (69.3%)
Quitman County (68.6%)
Sharkey County (69.3%)
Sunflower County (69.9%)
Tallahatchie County (59.4%)
Tunica County (70.2%)
Washington County (64.6%)
Wilkinson County (68.2%)
Yazoo County (54.0%)

Missouri
Saint Louis City (51.2%)

North Carolina
Bertie County (62.3%)
Edgecombe County (57.5%)
Halifax County (52.6%)
Hertford County (59.6%)
Northampton County (59.4%)
Warren County (54.5%)

South Carolina
Allendale County (71.0%)
Bamberg County (62.5%)
Clarendon County (53.1%)
Fairfield County (59.1%)
Hampton County (55.7%)
Jasper County (52.7%)
Lee County (63.6%)
McCormick County (53.9%)
Marion County (53.4%)
Marlboro County (50.7%)
Orangeburg County (60.9%)
Williamsburg County (66.3%)

Tennessee
Haywood County (50%)
Shelby County (52%)

Virginia
Brunswick County (56.9%)
Charles City County (54.9%)
Emporia City (56.2%)
Franklin City (52.3%)
Greensville County (59.8%)
Petersburg City (79.0%)
Portsmouth City (50.6%)
Richmond City (57.2%)
Surry County (51.6%)
Sussex County (62.1%)

National Rankings
Jefferson County, Mississippi (86.49%)
Macon County, Alabama (84.64%)
Claiborne County, Mississippi (84.11%)
Greene County, Alabama (80.34%)
Petersburg City, Virginia (78.97%)
Holmes County, Mississippi (78.66%)
Hancock County, Georgia (77.76%)
Lowndes County, Alabama (73.37%)
Sumter County, Alabama (73.17%)
Bullock County, Alabama (73.11%)
Wilcox County, Alabama (71.90%)
Humphreys County, Mississippi (71.51%)
Allendale County, South Carolina (71.00%)
Tunica County, Mississippi (70.15%)

Being from the U.S south(black belt region) I have to speak on this issue because I never hear anyone else do it.

I assume most of you speaking on this are from, lived, or currently living in the U.S north. There seems to be this fundamental break in narrative between what people in the north(or even out west) are given as history and what people down here are given.

The integration myth - There is no big discussion about integration down here. We were basically neo-colonized down here. While in New York / Chicago African Americans might have a side of town or burrow. African Americans in the south have entire counties were they are the majority. Problems were that they couldn't manage their own cities and counties because they were disenfranchised from the political process. "Integration" was basically a shinny package that contained access to public processes and accommodations. I.E it was a means to an end it wasn't an end in and of it self(Which is what northerners seem to believe).

It would be like African Americans demonstrating and shutting down the ore plants that move goods that come from the Congo or other African countries unfairly having there resources ripped off while Africans on the continent demonstrated the pits and warehouses they are being pulled from and stored at until they "integrate" the process and make it more equitable. The notion of "Integration" would be a package with the content being control of our own resources.

From a previous post

RandomAfricanAm: I don't think anything is inherently wrong with "Unclad girls" or na.ked girls/people at all. Nu.dity was/is religious European & Arab insecurities that was imparted on others. I have a problem with trying to market sex in an attempt to sell me something as though it's some kind of common denominator that goes with everything from Breakfast cereal to New cars.

Actually ...I don't have a problem with "Unclad girls" or sex. I have a problem with insulting lots of peoples intelligence by lazily pandering to the idea of ("Unclad girls" or sex) to sell stuff.

It's like Hollywood movies where everything has to have a love interest and a happy ending. It's just lazy, be adventurous and explore the world of ideas!

I was going to reply back to this thread but it appears to be some politics going on here(not that there's anything wrong with that) instead of straight inquiry on the topic.

You guys have fun. Though I do suggest if you didn't before to check out the thread I linked to before. It can add context to the time period in question.


https://www.nairaland.com/1530367/when-arabian-peninsula-northeast-africa

here's another that gives an account of The goings on in Africa till immediately prior to the Yoruba founding.

https://www.nairaland.com/1519253/account-dispersal-people-across-sahale



Have fun I'm out

Also, the point isn't to marginalize or dismiss the observation my point is to agree and show the vector of attack and point out common symptoms around the world.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGd6qtMco7Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GdNnBCaocI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADw7erT7-GU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRp6seV9pYs

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This S**T is crazy and seeing how it affects other people shows that media(movies, TV, internet, etc) is another vector of attack that is reinforced by the past of colonialism

Oh I get it ...and I agree with pretty much everything you just said. Not only that but my previous post gives support to that notion
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My point of contention is the idea that India and China are unaffected by being occupied and or colonized and that they...

DON'T GIVE A FUCKKS ABOUT THESE WESTERN CULTURE

It's an issue in their society but as I said before the further away from the epicenter you are the less severe it is. I.E it's an issue there but because it wasn't hit as hard and long it's worse in nigeria.

A good example of were it's worse would be to look at the epicenter The Americas or even Australia were the natives are in a depressed drunken stupor. You have Native Americans who refuse to even claim there heritage and claim there "Spanish" or "latino". All those so called "latinos" from northern Mexico the U.S constantly go on and on about are basically native people who were pushed south at the end of the Mexican American war who are now coming back because U.S corps wanted cheap labor(not to mention the chaos caused by the parasitic NAFTA trade agreement and drug war violence)

Why is it so bad for them? Because they are at the epicenter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6ChgL1EC4

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I agree, I'm just taking the extra step and putting it into context. It's happened to lots of people the difference is to what degree.

SPEAKING ENGLISH DOESN'T SHOW INTELLECT ....LOOK AT CHINESE,RUSSIANS AND EVEN INDIANS THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCKKS ABOUT THESE WESTERN CULTURE ...

This is the one thing I disagree with. I follow enough Indian/Chinese news to know that the self hate is pretty damn rampant throughout most places that were occupied/colonized (I notice a lot of people are under the weird Idea that Africa is the only place that got hit )

General rule:
The Americas were the epicenter it gets less severe the farther east you go with Japan takeing the least heavy hit.
1. American natives were occupied, colonized, lost two continents, and millions of people
2. Africans were occupied, colonized, and lost millions of people
3. India was occupied and colonized
4. China was occupied
5. Japan simply traded
(at this point the whole thing imploded under it's own weight like most European endeavors/societies ...Find it odd the self haters ignore that)

I think you guys should pause and checkout the tread...
https://www.nairaland.com/1530367/when-arabian-peninsula-northeast-africa
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You all are doing two things tthat always confuse me.
1. You are using the English names as a proxy to determine how close Yourba terms are to Hebrew instead of looking at the Hebrew terms themselves(The English language bible is like a translation of a translation of a translation)

2. You all never mention the pink elephant in the room namely that Hebrews came into world history in Africa they weren't Hebrews before that they got there culture in Africa! How can the child birth the parent? People act like Africans were twiddling there thumbs waiting for foreigners to bring culture. My contention is that most of the similarities you see will be retentions from the Green Sahara passed on to Ancient Egyptian then obviously being absorbed by who ever resided in Ancient Egypt long enough to learn there culture (Abraham entered Egypt *Alone* moses didn't leave until *multiple* generations later)




Again, please review the basic history in the link above

Quick history lesson from a previous posts (enjoy)
RandomAfricanAm

[s] osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?[/s]

[s]No because that idea hinges on the notion that the "material progress" we see today is predicated on the human genetic evolution of some set of people ...which isn't true, or at least verified.

This actually plays into a discussion Physics and pleep were having a couple of months back about Jews, IQ, and genetics that I meant to insert myself into but never got around to.[/s] Todays worlds is built on the back of ideas not some random genetic leap among modern man which is largely genetically the same.

To put it simply:
1. Humans seek to meet their basic needs of food, security, shelter, etc. any method(s) they develop to meet those needs live and die within the confines of that group in the form of cultural Memes. These "methods of production" are largely based on environment.


2. If conditions force groups into close proximity and provides the ability to meet their basic needs those "methods of production" once confined to particular groups spreads replacing/coexisting with other models(for better or worse).

See: Nile valley


See: Ghana-Mali-Songhai Complex
[img]http://fpif.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/GHANA-MALI-SONGHAI-EMPIRE.jpe[/img]

See: Swahili coast
[img]http://davidderrick.files./2013/04/swahili-coast.jpg[/img]

See: Mesopotamia


See Indus valley civilization


See: Shang Dynasty


See: Olmec civilization


3. In that environment which sustains larger populations the chance, need, speed, and variety of production methods increase. Given the close quarters of people these cultural memes spread throughout the inhabitants increasing derivatives and improvements while also insuring survival.

4. Those "methods of production" are further spread by trade relation between said population centers. The extent to which you are isolated from those trade routes determines the extent to which you are isolated from the ideas of the world.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Niger_saharan_medieval_trade_routes.PNG[/img]



5. As the worlds cultural memes diversify and form ever complex configurations through increased population and means to fund more complex expressions of cultural memes you get todays world.


In conclusion:

[s] osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?[/s]

No because the world is the way it is because of the accumulated population and subsequent ideas of man ...along with the massive influx of capital that went into the capitalist system that was birthed by the accumulated wealth gained off the backs of free African labor in the Americas along with the raw materials still being taken from the bowls of Africa today.

This materialized not on the back of some special strain of DNA but on the martialing of a huge subset of the accumulated ideas of man that was deposited in Europe at the fall of the Moorish occupation of Spain.[s] All you would really be saying is that the foundation of the worlds accumulated culture and genetic make up that facilitated that comes from "us"


But really everybody is a subset of "us" so what's the point <---That's the real question[/s]

In Musangwe it is believed that stimulating the male sexual organs after a knockout increases their chances of surviving.

Oh!!! well at least that ones cleared up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61egPvFeI5A




They gotta get a female ER crew or something

ezeagu:

Yes.

In that case what occurs on those days (I.E market day, rest day, etc) and what is the literal translation of those days?

...

...

ezeagu:

North, south, east, west is also Afo, Nkwo, Eke, Orie/Oye, similar to Bini.

The caption says "days". Is there suppose to be some correlation between "days" and direction?

Fantastic post!

Humanity moved away from phenomenal living long time ago.

I disagree on this point, those modern clocks are still synced with some agreed upon(by Europeans) natural phenomena it's simply phenomena that can only be clearly detected with some instrument used as a middle man as opposed to your unfiltered/assisted sight, smell, touch, taste, or hearing. (I.E something like the atomic decay of some random atom ...which obviously can't be seen by the unaided eye)

That said I was referring specifically to methods of detecting direction prior to said methodologies were imparted by Europeans. For most things a literal translation gives you a clear window into what you need to know to understand worldview prior to Europeans such as...
East = Ila oorun = riseing sun

Yoruba society is an agricultural one, with fishermen and hunters but no nomadic group. So how do we tell the cardinal directions and their phenomenal meaning? Ladi has mentioned the translations but my followup here is on the phenomenal depth.

An agricultural society must have tools and implements, hence ironsmiths and blacksmiths. The Yoruba deity of iron is Ogun. Likewise, for soil cultivators that work in the open field and depend on moisture from rain, thunder and lightning strike must be a concern. The Yoruba deity of thunder is Sango.

Look at the following diagram, this is very revealing. I took this from the post titled Short History of Yorubaland in Pictures.

Again, fantastic post! I'm going to look over the info/image and give it the reply it deserves.
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You just killed two or three birds with one stone right there. My background is software engineering and I've been looking at divinary systems in Africa that uses systems larger then binary(I.E "multi-Item & placement" divination systems) where you have 4 or 5 different "items" that each hold a value and you divine based on the "place" they fall along with if/what they touch or not.

That said it's nice to come back to the fundamentals laid down in IFA and see other possible traditional uses. It also gives me more resolve concerning the idea of searching what was left for future generations in order to build a better Africa based on it.

Lastly, I've been looking over spiritual systems and their concepts to get an idea of how the people described and thought about the phenomena they witnessed in the world around them. Spiritual systems are nice sources because they tend to deal with more complex concepts as opposed to simple thing like how much does it weigh & how many do you have.
There's a big difference between...

1.How many cows/much land do you have?
and
2.How has those cows/ that land helped your family survive throughout the generations?

Your commentary on pastoralist & agriculturalist reminded me to look at other expressions of the navigation of the related phenomena other then spirituality. Or maybe I should say before looking into a societies spirituality I should take a detailed look at the life they lead. it's the life the people lead that dictates the type of phenomena that people are exposed to cause it's through that exposure arises a unique spiritual view of the world. That's the point at which you can understand how they related to everything. I might've been a bit ahead of myself.

Random question, kinda related to the copying notion above and maybe better suited to another thread but...

How do we come through the other end of "this"(colonialism/slavery/neo-colonialism/IMF & world bank/World Wars/militarism/Massive ecological pollution) without turning into the type of people who perpetrated that kind of non-sense?

Now I have no problems busting heads when the time comes but I have no desire to turn into "that"/"them" or bequeath that type of heritage/society/Africa down to future generations. I don't have any kids of my own but that's besides the point in the larger scheme of things.

Key

Direction: (in english)
Native Translaton - Literal english translation

Yoruba:


East
Ila oorun - riseing sun

West
iwo oorun - setting sun

South
gusu - combination of "ogun" and "esu"(note: Ogun is the father of esu)

North
Ariwa - "sighted before coming" or "envisioned before coming"

---

Igbo:


East
Owuwa anyanwu - 'rising' of the sun (note:Sun in Igbo is anyanwu or anwu)

West
Odida anyanwu - 'falling' of the sun

North
Mgbago - North (Note: not sure how north or south is determined)

South
"Mgbada"/"ndida" - South

---

Fula:


East
"Lettugal"/"Fombina" - ?? (Note: Not sure how east, west, south, north are determined)

West
Hirnaange - ??

South
"Nänu"/"Worgo"- ?? (Note: Nänu in Nigeria, Worgo in Senegal/Guinea and extreme west Africa)

North
"Yamu"/"Reo" - ?? (Note: Yamu In Nigeria, Reo in Senegal and other extreme west Africa)

---

Unknown:


East
Funaa'nge( funa) - ?? (Note: Not sure how east, west, south, north are determined)

West
Hirna'nge( hirna) - ??

South
Fombina - ??

North
Waila - ??

I've always said Afars have some of the most epic Afros around ...top 3 on the continent

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Ol boy on the left rock'n a strong Jim Kelly

[img]http://www.onrembobine.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/JIM-KELLY.jpg[/img]
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Sidenote I love when women rock an Afro right
[img]http://3.bp..com/-GGx7Jllx7ew/TWQJK3yfbEI/AAAAAAAAAOg/eed0-kDKjeM/s1600/afro+4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://2.bp..com/__JRSadFgL28/THRrM-lMYdI/AAAAAAAAB30/UytiBaZRo4g/s1600/IMG_0137.jpg[/img]



Ok back on topic

[size=16pt]Struggle Between those for Independence and Those Copying Imperialist Ways [/size]

Even after Africans free themselves from Arab domination, effects of that experience linger and are manifest in the ways some of them want to restructure society.

This creates a split among Africans. A struggle emerges between the "producers" (those who wish to return to the way) and the "parasites" (those who wish to emulate the ways of foreigners). Armah connects the urges of the latter to a misguided fascination with the power of white people. "They urged on us the setting up of a king from among the parasites to whom all - parasites, producers, women, children, in the condescension of the white destroyer's road - would be bound in unthinking, unquestioning allegiance. In such arrangements, the admirers saw the roots of the white predators' power."

Implications of the decision to abandon long-held notions of social equality are far reaching. Traditionally, gender equality was experienced in the larger context of general social equality. In other words, men weren't seen as superior to women just as no one is society was seen as superior to anyone else.

However, as society is transformed and certain people are given power over others, the role of women is transformed and women are confined to roles of child bearers and homemakers. " In the suppression of women first, in the reduction of all females to things - things for pleasure, things for use, things in the hands of men. - these admirers of the white predator's road saw a potent source of strength for men"

These societal changes eventually give rise to opportunism, form collaborator kings who, for their personal benefit, allow Europeans to set up an outpost of the slave trade, to "askaris" who make a living by aiding in the destruction of their own people.

The point Armah makes in all this is that social inequality, the oppression and exploitation of women, allowing certain people to rule over everyone else - all of these things constitute a break from African tradition.

Armah not only outlines how those breaks from tradition develop, creating a pathway for both the physical and ideological domination by foreign peoples. He also challenges the notion that African somehow welcomed enslavement by chronicling the movement for resistance

-Excerpt from amazon review of "two thousand seasons"

"We told the white missionary that we had such fables too, but kept them for the entertainment of those yet growing up -- fables of gods and devils and a supreme being above everything. We told him we knew soft minds needed such illusions, but that when any mind grew among us into adulthood it grew beyond these fables and came to understand that there is indeed a great force in the world a force spiritual and able to shape the physical universe but that that force is not something that is cut off not something separate from ourselves."

-Ayi Kwei Armah

@fulaman have you ever read "Two Thousand Seasons"

Yeah when you said North I should have asked if you knew the means by which north & south was determined.

Examples:
1. Perpendicular to east/west path of sun

2. Tree moss (moss avoids sun so it grows thickest on north or south face)


3. Termite mound face (same as tree moss its widest side faces north/south directions)


4. Star charts & constellations (stars appear in set places of the sky at night)

5. Etc...

6. Etc...

After a method is successfully carried out(saw tree moss) the direction that has been determined is delineated with the term Mgbago(or mgbada).
So now that we know the terms do you know the traditional method for determining north & south prior to Europeans coming in slapping there terminology & methods everywhere?

Yeah the point I realy hope got across was that though all those regions were exposed to a lot of the same ideas(because of similar trade contacts) but they didn't just copy other peoples societies they used the ideas from those other societies to expand on there own. This is what African people need to realize.

There is this weird idea among a lot of people that the choice is between...
1. Staying exactly the same
(which I have no issue with provided it's not enmass to the point where we can't defend ourself militarily, socialy, & economicly)

or

2. Completely trashing everything and copying another people.

That's simply a false choice and it saddens me that people don't see that (though without a clear historical memory how could they?)

bigfrancis21: North - Mgbago (literally meaning 'up north')

South - Mgbada (literally meaning 'down south')

something is fishy here. Did you get this from a dictionary?
If this is true that would mean all or part of this word didn't exist until European contact because the word north & south isn't native to Africa in general or Igbo land in particular.

Actually no ...I could be wrong and over thinking things. If you have a notion of the stars or know the sun rises in the east sets in the west you can note a direction that's perpendicular to the movement of the sun. That's literally the phenomena that the word describes(unless your talking about magnetic or polar north). I think my mistake is in confusing the term "literal meaning" with the "phenomena" the word describes. I was expecting the literal translation to point to the phenomena it describes same as east = sun rise or for north = "sighted before coming" in Yoruba(though I'm not sure the full significance of the phrase).

I noticed the need for literal translations & phenomena contextualization when I came across the term slave while reading an anthropology book. When he gave the literal meaning of the word the local Africans used it ment "pot holder" and I was like "wait what"? In the Congo the words' literal translation was a district in the kingdom that was fighting against the king today it's a distinct linguistic/ethnic group. Also when you read what they were doing (I.E the actual phenomena the word slave is sapose to describe) it had little in common with what it described throughout the Americas.

So I'm now a stickler for literal translations & phenomena contextualization. It still annoys me when people say chief, traditional "gods", tribe, etc.


Ok I'm all off topic. Hmmm... What are the words for up and down in Igbo? I guess I was expected something like...

North
Mgbago - place up (up place)

South
Mgbada - place down (down place)

I feel like doing another...

[size=16pt]History lesson 2: original thought & incorporation of foreign ideas V.S flagrant copying[/size]

Soon after the dispersal of Africans from the Sahara several original knowledge & production systems occurred...

[img]http://1.bp..com/-nzzzWlQL3OQ/To1qWz78fSI/AAAAAAAAACk/BZZ7-lXdnYw/s1600/kerma.gif[/img]












[img]http://img1.advisor.travel/f550x450px-9010136964c1ccca6c8cc6581580774.jpg[/img]




Further on in time trade relations brought the knowledge of the wider world in contact. Now did they straight copy from everyone else or did they use the knowledge of the world to extend there own knowledge systems

[img]http://www.sankofa.asso.fr/ghana_fichiers/Cartes/carteempireghana.JPG[/img]
[img]http://4.bp..com/-DRPrsrA_lDY/Tx8oDgEzaeI/AAAAAAAAAA4/Ot5VaIUWn90/s1600/Indian+Ocean+Trade+Routes.jpg[/img]





[img]http://www.gfmer.ch/SRH-Course-2010/participants/images/Getahun-Birhanu-Sendek.jpg[/img]




[img]http://4.bp..com/-EotTDZAl2Z8/TyHYO0_5P8I/AAAAAAAAAC4/K8BglFjufUA/s1600/Swahili+people-097.jpg[/img]
[img]http://3.bp..com/-8kcTAXF9FkU/TyHYMN4LK3I/AAAAAAAAACw/_aYfpYqpWVQ/s1600/Swahili+people-066.jpg[/img]
[img]http://3.bp..com/-IvZ-PUCRVaU/TyHFk5aM-3I/AAAAAAAAABo/HnbteqBJ1Gk/s1600/Zanzibar-05.jpg[/img]

[img]http://4.bp..com/-eB8hXltLZrY/Tx8uId4WAjI/AAAAAAAAABA/52JL0uCT_y8/s1600/Arab+Manuscrip-01.tiff[/img]
[img]http://4.bp..com/-PJxK49Ot9a4/TyHGnYNn_9I/AAAAAAAAACg/7Hehn7mRl50/s1600/Swahili+Women-06.jpg[/img]







[img]http://www.actual.tm.fr/assofrani/expo2009/imgs/23samedi.jpg[/img]




Looks to me as though they took the ideas gained through trade and used them to expand on and apply their own unique cultural conceptions there by bringing something new to the world. Though I quess it's hard to ask someone to expand on what they have when they hate/feel ashamed of it themself...
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Or hey you could just give it over to Europeans and let them update your traditions for you if your to ashamed to do it your self.



(Traditional homes sold to Europeans then renovated/"modernized" *introducing new ideas to old designs...you know what was done before*)

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Though be careful not to let your self be eaten up by other cultures ...likewise don't voluntarily "sacrifice" yourself to other cultures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIVXDbULzGY