and if anybody thinks he is a slave, good for him. You probably are


please dont drag anybody else into your bottomless pit of idiocy. Nobody else apart from morons who yap about "slave" rubbish talk nonsense like that. Slave yada yada yada. Arrant nonsense that very foolish people parrot

i seriously hate people who come on here and go on and on with this "black" nonsense. Any African who buys that kind of mentality deserves to be shot on the spot witout hesitation

Those who have that type of mentality are Zap.e.d up for life and I hate them with every bit of me.

I mean who the Zap goes around thinking "black African" rubbbish that morons on here parrrot. Seriously!!!!!

Now watch the fools come back and start yapping about "slave" this and "slave" that

kodewrita:

Finally ROSSIKE gets called to order. Told u , u are stuck in the 70s. Dont worry, you are forgiven but please catch up with your reading, the world has moved on since then. We dont think in terms of BLACK AFRICANS anylonger. you are an isolated racist at the moment.

However I commend your stand on this topic (aside the BLACK AFRICAN ish which you still have to get rid of).

+10000000000

The starter of this thread makes himself look like a buffon with his "black African" nonsense IMO

of course he thinks he is educated and so is stuck on such idiocy. His past threads have reflected the same mentality imo. He blabs about "Arab" this and "that" and thinks he is making sense.

His type of mentality is what every right thinking African "white", "yellow" "brown" or "black" should completely avoid. Archaic mentality at its worst!!
of course he is going to ome back yapping about some "black African" nonsense so there is no point in even engaging him


A moderator needs to chane the topic of this thread to Chadians imported into Lybia or something like that.

The guys mentality is seriously bleeped up with this "black" nonsense he is into

The original poster was not even born or raised in Nigeria, so WTF is he talking about

@Post

North Africa is White and Arab but that is not the reason why they are revolting and has nothing to do with what is going on


Its a case of jobless youth and corrupt regimes that want to stay in power forever.

There are certainly other parts of Africa where this could happen also if the conditions are right for it

@Ikengawo

this is in the context of people kicking out a corrupt dictatorship who is stealing their people blind and rigging elections to stay in power for ever

I said it could happen in some places on other parts of the continent also but I dont know how extensive

ie for example When are people in Cameroun going to revolt and kick Paul Biya out? He has been in power longer than Ben Ali and almost as long as Mubarack

EzeUche_:

Maybe in North Africa and the Middle East. Not Sub-Saharan Africa though. . .

There is a possibility in places like Djibouti, Mauritania, Eritrea, Sudan etc. It can happen in some places in "sub-saharan" Afrrica. I just dont know how extensive it would be

morpheus24:

Thats Arab/berber Africa bush man.

Correct yourself

@Morpheus my man

The majority of Berbers can be called white so technically he is correct. Even using American census standards North Africa is also "white"


anyways, I dont know if what is happening now can be replicated all across the continent though. Two many heavy handed dictators

archive:

i assume you have done your research on how well, or otherwise native Zimbabweans were living before the whites took over? and again how they have been living since the whites left. also, you seem to ignore the fact that he killed thousands of BLACKS over decades. it's like the muslim extremists yelling about the evil westerner when they kill their fellow muslims in droves. reta rded.

also, you get me wrong. i am not saying that an African leader finally getting rid of the shackles of imperialism is a bad thing. i just cannot applaud mugabe because of WHO he is. i look at the broader picture. we are not talking about just any leader who got rid of apartheid and white oppression (by the way he didn't actually get rid of wht oppression after all, did he?) in his country. I am talking about MUGABE. to say 'no leader is perfect' when we're talking about such an evil entity is just ridiculous and makes you seem jaded. please watch any documentary about his rule and pay particular images to scenes of massacre and see if it doesn't appeal to your human side - but then you may say that that is all white man propaganda.

I have read the contents of ZIDERA. Yes, the western powers have fought a dirty came since the beginning, and of course they are not going to want to relinquish control and sovereignty. but we must learn to play the game, and if so fight dirty against the RIGHT PEOPLE. i don't know much about the politics of countries outside of Nigeria, but in Nigeria we cause so many problems for OURSELVES. when we can get our mindset right, then we can start to figure out how to fight against the system that was set up by and for the west. africa is a large continent - we should be in a position to lend help to fellow african countries, thus easing the reliance on western financial organisations. you can't complain about their presence in african countries and then at the same time whine about how they won't lend financial help to us. it's give and take. we need to be in a position where we can call the shots and have THEM relying on US. for example, any moves that china makes now can have dramatic effects on the WORLD economy - and this was through their genius. how many african countries can say that?

bottom line is, if we;re smart enough we can get out of many of the strongholds we are in. what has asia got that africa hasn't? i'll tell you - they had certain things from way back in history that africa didn't. japan was very advanced for a long time. of course not in the way it is now, but it could hold its own around the time of the industrial revolution. why do you think they were able to launch an attack in WW2? let me tell you, african countries were on the whole illiterate when the europeans arrived. that's a key marker of a sheer lack of development. south america, india, china , japan, arabia etc had their own writing systems. where were ours? adn pls dont mention the egyptians.

it was a completely different playing field. africa didn;t have a clue. one thing i do know is that as humans we are meant to learn from each other. and learn quick. do what other people have done before, but do it better. africa can't even seem to do this in the modern world. there's just a lack of enterprise and ambition.

you talk about 'overthrowing' like we are in another time. the world isn't like that anymore. you have to be smarter than that now. work with the powers that be while simultaneously building your own power up. the west will always play their game. even the 'china threat' is largely a construct of the western media to send the world on premature high alert of a country that is rapidly rising in economic power, but in reality still has a high population of poor citizens. they are scared because china has them by the neck. china has learnt to play the game. china knows what it is doing even though it is still very much a DEVELOPING country

we don't. end of

I totally agree with you especially your very first post.

morpheus24:

The President did the right thing. He has adhered to the overwhelming voice of his people. It was an honorable thing to do. I applaud that. However here come the opposition sharks who now smell blood and will come with their promises of changing the country when in all honesty its merely a power struggle on what to control.

Long live Africa and ALL its people. Change is in the wind.

Now only if those fools to the south like Gbagbo will do the same thing. I doubt it though since most of the people are illiterate ethnic driven buffons

Morpheus you still dey? I havent seen you in a while

buzugee:

let me see you fill out a job application in america or britain and the box where it asks you to tick your race, let me see you try to explain to them that race is a social construct and irrelevant and does not exist. they will throw you out on your ear and call the security guard to keep you out. this shytt is real. it is here to stay. better embrace it if you live in the west. only deep thinkers know it is bullcrap. but how many deep thinkers exist in this world ? better get with the program sire

@buzu

Are you suggesting we all become shallow thinkers

Who would do all the deep thinking and revel the facts?

The world needs more deep thinkers not vice-versa

Ochi_Agha:

What happened to this thread? I was having an intellectual debate in this thread earlier. The "Race" issues is always a controversial topic. The simple fact that the term "race" is a social construct. There are more genetic variations amongst a population, than there are amongst the different "races." This is a fact.

+1000

That was one of the findings of the Human Genome Project. I wish people here would review it before getting into this debate so we can actually discuss facts and not fantasy

So many people here are stuck up on artficial terms like "black", "white" and social constructions like "race"

buzugee:

sage getting a right old rollicking from all angles this is the 4th rollicking he getting on this here topic. might as well go ahead and hop off this haplogroup ship. it has absolutely nothing to do with nothing.

What I said was correct, infact the map proves my point about North Africans having a different haplotype from Europeans and sharing a Haplotype common to Africans


You guys mistook my comments. I ment that peple like Andamanese and Negeritoes who have "black" skin and kinky hair are the most genetically distant from Africans among all humans and this is proven fact. You can check it out

A white Berber and an Hausa man are much more close to each other genetically than a black Andamanese or Negerito

I dont make points that I am not sure of and I was correct in my assertion


Nowhere in my posting did I say that all haplogroups did not emarge from Africa

I was trying to disprove a point about looks and how looks are not indicative of a person being an African or not in the indiginous sense and so I was contrasting North Africans to Negeritoes

You can carry out work on remains and identify if a person is of West African descent, East African descent or Southern African descent. Same with a Northern Europeans, Southern Europeans etc It has nothing particularly to do with "race" unless all these groups are also "races" themselves

Its sort of like Sickle cell disease. Scientists, back in the days when they thought humans were divided by "race", used to falsely classify Sickle cell as a "black race" disease.

Well now most people know that was false science because people in Greece, the middle East and Asia suffer from sickle cell disease while many "black" Africans in parts of the continent are not susceptible to Sickle cell.

Sometimes population clusters have commonalities

but none of that has anything to do with "race" and a "black race" or any race for that matter does NOT exist in nature

only in social classifications

MzDarkSkin:

Sage, you an continue to be "brainwashed" but I use facts. I do not believe in evolution for various reasons. You all say whites came from blacks and look that way due to the cold weather, but what is it about asia's environment that gave those people a tan/yellow complexion, bone straight hair and almond shaped eyes? please.

In the U.S. when a person is murdered or to be identified and is nothing more than skull and bones they classify the unknown victim using the caucasoid (white), negroid (black), and mongoloid (asian) bone structures.

In several of the "Skeleton stories" and "Cold Case Files" television shows, it never ceased to amaze me how relevant me theory is.

In one show a native Canadian is despoiled, murdered and buried. Investigators were able to find her due to a video of she and her alleged attacker on camera in front of a store together. The man was asian in appearance, long black hair characteristic of asians and have blonde dyed streaks. Well asian like hair with long blonde streaks were found in the woods (forest) where her remains were descovered. They identified the man after running tests which concluded her attacker was EITHER: asian, native canadian/American, pacific islander or perhaps a Mexican immigrant.They labled those groups as "mongoloid" and noted the blonde dyed in his hair was actually more of a "golden rod" shade due to the fact that Asians, American and Candian Natives and Asian descendant pacific islander's hair react to blonde hair dye in the same fashion, unless applied more and more the blonde will not come out blonde but rather orange like. He, it turned out was native Canadian. My point: Asian = super group, the rest = subgroups or ASIAN DESCENDANTS (migration does NOT change one's origins/dna and Canadian/American natives crossed the straight that once connected North America to Asia just LIKE the Berbers/Moors from S.Arabia did to Africa). Mexicans, Pacific Islanders and Canadian Natives have lived in the West for THOUSANDS of years yet their ancestry is traced BACK to Asia (not Africa, not Europe. . .ASIA!). The Moors/Berbers are NOOOOO different.

Story two: A man leaves his Afro. Cuban wife and children to go to "work". He kisses them good bye and that is the LAST time he is seen alive. He too is murdered and buried for a long time. His remains were only bones. His identity was revealed but while tests were being conducted on his remains, he is classified as a "white male of mixed asian and negroid ancestry" with that information investigators were able to conclude that he was either of South American, Caribbean or even rarely Mediterranean descent. He was identified as a Cuban American national.


Another case was of a woman (love-peddler) who was murdered and was still unknown at the time the episode originally aired, so they posted a "if anyone has any information please call" message but said she is EITHER a light skinned African American or of Creole Caribbean descent. When they showed s sketch of how they believe she looked prior to her mutilation she looked more like Alicia Keys than someone who is of "pure African" descent. However due to the amount of African, European and Asian dna in her they were not only able to accurately put her origins in one region (she was later identified as Puerto Rican) however but also find a way to recreate her face based on her skeletal features (the cheek bones, nose and head shape all characteristics used to differentiate the three different races: black, white, asian).


The basic, probability that someone who has ALL three White, black, asian in them and the amount of each is how scientists identify Jane/John Does. so in essence those three races are the "primary colors" of humanity. They cannot be duplicated but can be fused to create new colors: Pacific Islander, Hispanic, Middle Eastern. This definitely contradicts "evolution" in my opinion as it the racial mixing that is the reason the majority of the world can trace ancestry to Africa, not some monkey who learned to walk upright.

Unless each race had evolved from "different apes" there is NOTHING that convinces me due to the difference in DNA, Skull shape and stature. First they claimed we all came from Asia, then Hitler had his own team of scientists who claimed they had evidence that the world population was mutations of the Aryan race . Then they said Neanderthals were a different type of humanoid species but it turns out they were ancient Germans LOL. It's all bull and man made attempts to find answers only God knows. So with that said this black woman is not gullible, and my black skin is all the proof I need to know where I came from and that is what matters. Guilty white folks who want to place their ancestry in Africa to "let by gones be by gones" can frigg themselves. We might all be "one" but it doesn't change history, it doesn't make the wrongs done to my race right, it cant bring back what was stolen from us. God is our one and only common ancestor, Period.

Nothing you typed up here has anything to do with "race"

You can use remains to decipher if a person is of Northern European or mediteranian descent. the same with an East African and a West African. they have differences too.

Non of this has anything to do with "race" and there is no such thing like "your race" or a "black race" in nature

quit deceiving yourself

ROSSIKE:

sage said:


Every race has genetic connections to Africa. You do realise that it was just one out of the three DNA haplogroups of Africa which migrated out to form the other races?



Haplogroups L1, L2 and L3 . . . are largely confined to Africa. The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3.

And both L2 and L3 descended from L1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

I love your Map dude its awesome and it tells the story of Haplogroups better than I can

Ive been saying it from the start of this threadabout North Africans and the Haplotypes on the African continent as opposed to others outside Africa

Your map tells the story well

ROSSIKE:

sage said:


Every race has genetic connections to Africa. You do realise that it was just one out of the three DNA haplogroups of Africa which migrated out to form the other races?



Haplogroups L1, L2 and L3 . . . are largely confined to Africa. The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3.

And both L2 and L3 descended from L1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

I had to come back and clarify that point.

What I ment is that you can have dark skin and kinky hair and still be the most genetically distant from so ccalled "black" Africans. My point was that light skin does not indicate not being an African neither does having dark skin and kinky hair indicate genetic closeness to Africans

The "black" people of Asia and Australia(Andamanese and negeritos are testament to that

What happened to Ochi_Agha? We were actually having a good discussion

Its really sad how this thread has turned out. I am the type that is keen on learning new stuff but this thread has gone downhill since then

We should try to make threads like this informative and back up our information with facts

I dont understand why this thread started to go this way

If you are European who is living in North America, your haplogroup and markers would all point to your ancestry same with Asians same with Native Americans same with Austalasians etc

In the case of North Africa theirs point to North African origins which places them squarely as African indigines. They are not of European descent at all

How hard is that to comprehend? Why does it have to deginirate to something else?


@ Buzu

Its nothing personal at all. I love informative topics and I love debates backed by facts. If studies show tommorrow that North Africans are descendants of Northern Europeans I would accept it.

I dont like blind arguments and the thread seemed to be heading that way rather than serving an informative purpose
Im signing out of this topic for today though

buzugee:

yeah keep recycling the same tired rhetoric. what you need to do is get a job at a recycling plant cuz you got recycling skillz bro

Keep recycling falsehood then


Im done with discussing this issue with you. Its pointless and would only deteriorate to personal insluts which I am not a fan of at all.

the way reasonable people discuss an issue is that rather than insulting each other or just posting peoples opinion, we could learn a lot from each other by asking for back up scientific studies to our points

Everybody involved would benefit because we would all learn new things

There is absolutely nothing to gain from two people insulting each other continously

and I am not inclined to do that

@MZDarkSKin

Berbers did not migrate from Saudi Arabia. Where did you get that from

buzugee:

what you need to do, sire, is to go back and re-read this thread because only then will you see that the stuff you regurgitated up there is an attempt by you to cloak your 'exposure'. take 'mediocrity' like a man dammit  

We are getting nowhere fast dude. Just give it up till you can grasp some simple concepts. Nothing we say here can change the FACT that North Africans are indiginous Africans neither would it make any difference in the larger scheme of things


I didnt get into this thread for personal insults and such is pointless. Do your own reserch if you wish or you can believe what you want

facts dont change

Kudos

"White" is a race? "Black" is a race? "Yellow" is a "race"?

The ignorance on here is overwhelming

This is sad

MzDarkSkin:

lol@ Ochi you know what I meant, Iran Iraq w/e! LOL.

I am leaving this thread, o! It went from simple to idiotic!

Anyone who thinks the Non black Moors or the current inhabitants of North Africa are indigenous to that area, need to SLAP THEMSELVES, Sage that means you. Their descendants will tell you in a heart beat, the migrated via the Saudi Arabian peninsula to Africa. That is common sense.

White, Black, Asian are VERY real! Don't kid yourself with this "colorblind" crap. We can "kumbayah" when the facts are realized. White IS a race, Black IS a race and Asian or "Yellow" IS a race, those three have subgroups which we call mid.eastern, pacific islander and "hispanic" meaning those three are the product of two or all three. Race is real. Anthropologists can kiss my arse with that "one race" from monkies crap.

There is no such thing like "race" but I guess in your world facts dont matter.

A "black" "race" does not exist. Stop living in lala land where "black" people are your "people"

buzugee:

there you go trying to confuse yourself again with big words. baby steps. guy

when you have no idea what you are talking about blame the dictionary or blame your school or blame "big words"  

Mr "Africa was all black" and "Berbers are descendants of European slaves"


Anyway lets keep it civil though. Im not a fan of endless circular arguments which lead nowhere

buzugee:

i am the one who got exposed ?

ok this is you
this is me  this is ajali   now tell me who got exposed as a fraud ? 

Contact me when you are able to grasp the concept of haplotypes and the PN 2 cluster into your head

The only person exposed here is a trash talker that was saying that Africa was "all black"

He didnt even realize that there is no such thing as a "black" person genetically speaking and that having white skin does not mean a person is not an Indiginous African

buzugee:

lol see this sire backtracking faster than usain bolt can run

Backtracking from what?

Berbers are African indigines. How can one backtrack from reality?

There is no alternative to reality and facts

buzugee:

that guy, sage, is confused. he is full of hot air just here yarning rubbish all day long thanks ajali for exposing this grandioesing pseudo-geneticist

Nah dude you just got exposed and you are full of hot air.

You had no idea that there is no such thing like a "black" person genetically and talking nonsense about how Africa is for "black" people

If you knew anything about genetics you wouldnt even type any single thing that you did.

Instead of spending your time reading trash some fraudstars invented like those phoney links by people who want to perpertuate a colour myth and falsehood, I advise you to spend your time studying facts like the Human Genome project, the recent genetic study measuring human genetic distances across humanity which Desmond Tutu was a part of that was concluded this year, the haplotype markers of different groups around the world etc

You stand to learn a whole lot and to not repeat the dumb things you wrote on this thread


and no I am no Geneticist. Highlighting facts to dispel colour based falsehood is just what I did

One other thing genetic projects have done is to completely destroy the idea that "race" exists

There could be bigger differences between two people of a so called "race" that between two people of different "races"

If you have paid attention to recent genetic projects you would understand that their is actually no such thing like a "black" race and terms like "black" "white" etc are just ambigous trash we should not even be paying attention to

☻ajali☺:


Sorry, but this is not true.
Do you know about the international HAPMAP project?
A project about the genes of humans around the world in which
the university of Ibadan is a part of it?
99,9% of our genes we all have in common. Africans, Europeans, Asians, Americans, Australians, simply everybody on this earth and the remaining 0,1% are different because of climate, environment  and thereof resultant different living conditions.
And when we think of the fact that the cradle of Humankind lies in Africa what else should we expect?

What I said is 100% current.

Humans are related 99.9% but in relation to this topic that is not relevant. Ive studiied the Human Genome project and other genetic projects extensively

This issue is about Berbers and I was pointing out the fact that they are the indiginous people of North Africa. I was clearly dispeling a lie propagated by some people

Lets stick to the topic at hand

Im soooooooooooooo pissed

@Dayo

Italy is losing one spot because of Uefa Cup. Italian teams dont really care to do well in it and German teams do well in it and it has the same co-efficients as Champions league

In the champions league Italy is far better than Germany. Infact Germany has had only one Semi-Finalist in 8 years. Italy have been champions in 2 of the last 4 years

buzugee:

yeah its best you stop because you are confusing yourself. any specie that can inter-breed will have the same genetic markers. so the genetic markers of europeans, asians and berbers are definitely indigenous to africa. now their may be a variation in how the C G T A U is arranged due to the different mutations brought on by acclamitizing to the different conditions they encountered in their dispersed new locations, but they are still the same genetic markers. its like comparing suya to pepper soup to fried meat. they differ due to their altered state but they are all made from the same meat

You obviously dont know anything about haplogroups or genetics. They are population specific and the haplogroup of all Africans including white North Africans is similar to each other and indiginous to Africa but different from Europeans, Asians, Australasians etc and has nothing to do with interbreeding.

I see I am actually wasting my time though with somebody who does not know what he is talking about.

Adios

buzugee:

what i know is that all human beings have the same genetic markers. does not matter what color your skin or hair is. that is why we can mate with each other and produce offsprings. this is why we cannot mate with dogs and have offsprings. because dogs have different genetic markers. so yes the topic of race is man-made but like i said i am simply going by todays definitions. now if i was having an argument with you about how all humans are the same ? then i suspect we will be on the same side but the topic of this thread is 'when black africans ruled in europe' hence i artificially create a demarcation based on the superficial (color )

But you cant do that if you want to engage in a factual discussion unless we just want to just waste our time engaging in fantasy and delusions. If we are going to tell the story of a place like North Africa we need to stick with facts.

The genetic markers of Europeans and Asians are NOT indiginous to the African continent.

White Berbers on the other hand are. Stop trying to suggest that white Berbers being indiginous to Africa is similar to Chinese or Europeans because it is factually incorrect

It is more correct to say that white Berbers are indiginous as Igbos or Yorubas are

Im tired of repeating myself so il just stop

buzugee:

bruv, all those gene markers all trace back to the black race so this your point is mute. european haplogroups and genetic markers all trace back to africa as do berbers

Nah Bruv

All humans are related but my point remains that the Berbers are as African as anybody else. the reason for raising the issue of Haplotypes and genetic markers is to show you that irrespective of their "white" skin, they are as African as you and me and indigines of our continent.

There are groups on earth that share our "hair" and "skin colour" but are not even really related to Africans. They are the most genetically distant from Africans