AreaFada2:


Samuk, the way history has been rewritten by those tribes that the British favoured after 1897 and benefitted initially from 1914 amalgamation and post-independence, is beginning to miseducate some Edo people. Say around 1986, if I greeted elderly people "Lamogun or La'Umogun", they will recite the "oriki", uwaenmwen or praise of Umogun descendants. I would have to politely wait for them to finish before proceeding on my merry way. My experience as a young chap. Edohen, Ero, Elawure, Ezomo and other descendants also have their oriki. A chap who greets Lamogun today might even get a reply in Pidgin English from the elder.

Kids today may not even know that there is something like oriki.
Edo people brought up in Lagos are helping to spread the myth that Edo people come from Yoruba. That is how their "accommodating" hosts educated them.

For anyone to use languages or dialects spoken today in various districts of former Benin Empire to decide or conjure up what the origins or demographics of those areas were around 1440-1473 when Oba Ewuare I reigned, is an abysmal disservice to scholarship and common sense.

But at least the guy has enough fantasy and attempted to think, albeit being misguided.

bigfrancis21:


Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

bigfrancis21:


Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

odigbosky:



You have a point. It is very valid but i still believe Edo was not a major language in places like Asaba. There are other writings that classified these people as igboid.

odigbosky:

RedboneSmith:


Nope. I didn't say it has roots in both Esan and Igbo. It's origin is unequivocally Igbo, and diffused to both Esan and Benin. You didn't understand what I said there.

And, no. The Southeasterners don't use idumu to mean quarters like is done in Anioma, but this doesn't mean that etymologically the roots of 'Idumu' cannot be understood by a Southeasterner. It was an Anioma innovation but linguistically is still Igboid. To give an example: in the southeast, soup is called 'ofe' in Standard Igbo, but the Ikwerre of Rivers State call it 'mini wiri'. But does it mean "mini wiri" is not Igboid? No. 'mini wiri' is cognate with 'miri nri' which means 'food' s water' or 'sauce for eating food' in Igbo. The Ikwerre word is therefore still etymologically Igbo, even if it isn't used in Central/Standard Igbo. It's the same basic concept with Idumu.



Then you should be able to break it done into its constituent units and explain it. But you apparently can't. And while we are on the topic of Igbo expressions loaned to Edo:

I hope you won't disagree that the "Uku" that appears in the praise name of your Oba "Uku Akpolokpolo" is from the Igbo word for "big or great".

Or that the Edo word for gun, osisi, is from the Igbo word for stick (applied to the early daneguns because they looked like long sticks), and is still used to describe guns throughout Anioma.

Or that the Edo word for skirt buluku, is from the Igbo word 'mbuluku' or 'mbunuku' or 'mbenuku/mbenukwu', which in Igbo means 'that which is girded around the waist'.



Which language isn't continually evolving and borrowing? What exactly is the point of this paragraph?


Deliberately evasive. I will be waiting for an Edo etymology of Idu and Idumwun. Cheers.

RedboneSmith:


I do not doubt that Benin took "Idumwun" to Lagos. What is in question is the etymological roots of the word itself. Europeans brought potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava and maize to us, but all of these words "potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava, maize" are not European words. They are Native American words.

Your ancestors may have taken idumwun to wherever, but the word itself is Igboid. If you have a satisfactory Edo etymology for it, then provide it and let us examine it.

RedboneSmith:
One of the problems I have with the neighbours of Igbo-speaking peoples, especially the Edo and the Igala, is that they have this hardened belief that their cultural relationship with the Igbo was one-way, and that the Igbo were always on the receiving end of cultural influence from them, while they never picked up anything from the Igbo. Anytime the Edo man or the Igala man comes across something he shares with his Igbo neighbor, the tendency is to jump to the conclusion (without consideration to linguistic and etymological logic) that the Igbo must have learnt it from them.

The first question to ask about "Idu" is: if Idu was an Edo endonym for themselves, how do you explain the fact that none of their neighbours historically used this word for them, except for the Igbo? Edo (Benin) people had ancient interactions with Yoruba, Urhobo, Iteskiri, Esan, but they did not take "Idu" to them, except to the Igbo and Igboid people to the east. How? Why?

There's only one logical explanation: the word was an Igbo word to begin with, an Igbo exonym for Benin.

And Idu actually does have Igbo meanings:

One, it means 'bush'.
Two (and this is the meaning that is more relevant to this discussion), it means 'a crowd', 'an agglomeration of people' or 'a community'.

The Igbo called Benin "Idu n'Oba" which means "the Community of the Oba" or "The Oba's Community" in Igbo. Often rendered simply for the sake of brevity as "Idu."

Idu or Iduu is still used even in parts the southeast to mean 'people' or 'community', especially in the Omambala area.

Could you kindly give me an Edo etymology of "Idu"? Having ancient Idu-named shrines doesn't confer an Edo provenance on the name; it only indicates an ancient relationship between the Igbo and the Edo.

Even your word "Idumwun" (called Idumu by Esan and us in Anioma) is an Igboid term in its etymological roots.

I can break down "Idumu" to meaningful units in Igbo:

Idu = community
Ụmụ = children/descendants

Idumuobi (common name of lineages in Anioma) = community of the descendants of the Obi.

Idumuje (in Esan) = community of the descendants of the Oje, i.e., the royal quarters.

Idumwun Ewaise (in Benin) = community of the descendants of the royal physicians and diviners.

Again, could you offer an etymology for your "Idumwun"?

RedboneSmith:


The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

RedboneSmith:


The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

RedboneSmith:
Idu as a historical person is very unlikely. Idu is an exonym, a name given to Benin by Igbo people. It is an Igbo term (with Igbo meanings), and not an Edo term. It's re-invention as a person is likely the result of latter-day mythopoesis.

ChangedMan1999:




Look, it may be true that some Ika don't identify under the name Igbo or Igbon, but it is false when you try to suggest that they are not biologically and linguistically one with people of South East.


Pa Iduwe that was mentioned in this thread is an Ika man who was born in the beginning of last century, and his conscience and positive reasoning made him know that although they Ika people are close to Bini, they are more related to people of South East.

Please try to read Pa Iduwes manuscript on Ika history.

You can't tell me that Ika man killed a Bini woman because she called him "Igbo" and there Ika is not Igbo. It is error in reasoning.

My good friend, I am not trying to tell you Ika people identity under Igbo; what I am trying to say is that Ika people are biologically, linguistically and culturally more related to the people of south east

TAO11:
Regular Bini People: Our king doesn’t step out of his palace.

Samuk: No, he sometimes leaves his palace for some visitations.

Me: Stop pretending like I am one of your Bini people who say he doesn’t step out of his palace.

Go iron out your contradictions with your Bini people.

+ I also sometimes leave my house for visitations, duh

---

And yes, I am aware that a colony of Bini traders in the 1500s came to trade & settle on Èkó island.

I am aware that a piece of the Eko island was allotted to them by the landowners; after their permission to trade & settle was granted — just as it was granted to other immigrant groups who came for same reason.

I’m aware that this resident population of Bini traders lived in peace & harmony until around the turn of the 1500s when this Bini group began to take up arms to fight against another Bini group in the region.

For the first time since their settling there, their trade post now doubled as a “garrison” — a garrison set up to attack another Bini trading group around the coast.

In any case, your kings like other kings anywhere step out of their palaces/towns — of course except the Ifẹ kings of old who never did until in the year 1903.

Cheers.

TAO11:

1st screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Ovoranmwen at Calabar; when he was banished there.

2nd screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Akenzua-II at Ifẹ; when he just became Benin king.

3rd screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Akenzua-II at the Airport; when he and others welcomed the white lady.

---

In sum, it didn’t begin with Ọmọ-n-ọba Erediauwa nor with his son the present Ọmọ-n-ọba Ewuare-II.

Your Ọmọ-n-ọbas have always been going outside of Benin since time immemorial.

Do you know that Ọmọ-n-ọba Ehengbuda drowned in the Lagos area in the Atlantic Ocean?

Cheers.
Cc: Raymond0008

TAO11:

Ashipa while alive was a King, but without authority being uncrowned. In any case he a King.

Christistruth00:

Ashipa is not a Benin name or Title

It is Yoruba that have Ashipa as name and Title

And the Aworis already told you Ashipa was a Nobleman from Isheri

They even told you the Compound he was from



The first King of Lagos was the Ashipa of Isheri

TAO11:

You must be very daft to not see how he disgraced you and your minions.

You all proposed that I must be a man because you al think a woman shouldn’t be this wicked. Haha

I don’t care to know both you & him.


What I see is simply that you tried to hoodwink him to his side. He disgraced you as appropriate.

See his comment below for a sweet gentle reminder:

You must be very daft to not see how he disgraced yo and your minions.

You all proposed that I must be a man because you al think a woman shouldn’t be this wicked.

Cheers.

TAO11:

Lol. No Nairalander is asking any question, nor asking you to ask any question.

It’s you who are tripping. Pretending to have questions on what is clear before you.

(1)The phrase “male descendant” (since English is hard for you) simply refers to: a male child whose descent is traceable to someone (the Bini king in this case). Thus he is not even a [direct] son of the Bini king.

Whether this descent is through the child’s mother or the child’s dad is also not even specified by the phrase “male descendant”. So, get a freaking grip.

Indeed Ado’s descent is traceable through his mom to that Benin king. While his dad (Aṣipa) is core Yorùbá.

And the interviewer had requested specifically for his comment on the relationship between Eko & Benin.

(2) Ashipa while alive was a King, but without authority being uncrowned. In any case he a King.

(3) Ado is however recognized in the traditions as the first King with authority. He is officially recognized as first King in terms of court listing.

(4) Tell me who is the first King of Benin — Eweka or Oranmiyan? Don’t be in rush to answer.

Make sure to look at the Bini traditions well. Some of the Benin accounts say Oranmiyan, some say Eweka.

The same nuance with the Eko case of Ado and Aṣipa.

Kisses

TAO11:

Well sorry … You alone are insane. I never joined you at your insanity.

My words are:
“I have shown you example of recognition at the state level for the Aworis as attached.”

I also added that they don’t have to be contented for the state recognition they already have — e.g. owning all the land, etc.

Well …

Neither I nor the song said he was born to a Bini king.

The traditional song simply talks about the city where his birth took place. That’s literally what the song says

“…our father’s [Ado’s] birth took place within Benin, & his father is a king not an expat-cum-commoner…”

And his father (Ashipa) is not a king of Benin, neither is his father (Ashipa) a Bini in any way shape or form.

His father (Ashipa) is a King at Eko — the progenitor of the Eko ruling dynasty of today.

Kisses

TAO11:


He specifically used the phrase “male descendant” and this means that this first crowned-king (Ado) is a male child whose descent is traceable to that Benin king

TAO11:
LMAO.

Well, the song doesn’t say his father is a Benin king.

Instead, the song simply says: “… his father is a king…”

And yes his father (Ashipa) is a king not at Benin, but at Eko. He is the progenitor of the Eko dynasty.

Well, they see how you literally are being disgraced.

For example, see the comments below from the same whom you seek to align with:





And as per your comment below, the response that follows from your friend suffices.
IF the Aworis complain, they do just because they want more of what they have. And they have a right to ask for more.

I have asked you to show me one recognition (at the state level) for that Erelu or for any of the minority so-called Benin descendants.

I have shown you example of recognition at the state level for the Aworis as attached.

They also own all the land.

He specifically used the phrase “male descendant” and this means that this first crowned-king (Ado) is a male child whose descent is traceable to that Benin king.


Cheers.

TAO11:

Show me any recognition given at State level to any of these minorities (“Benin descendants”), or anythin relating to Benin or its symbols. Show me one.


Only the Awori subgroup of the Yoruba ethnic group is recognized as indigene at the state level — even up to the coat of arms showing:

(1) The white cap

(2) The Akoko leaves.

(3) Fishing occupation.

See attached screenshot.

TAO11:
LMAO! You fraudulent boy.

The song DIDN’t say: He was born to a King in Benin.

The song literally says: “… his father is a king …”.

Guess what!? His father is Ashipa — the progenitor of the dynasty.

Cheers.

TAO11:


I'm sorry to dissapoint you but the lagos state government doesn't recognize the bini people but the aworis

TAO11:
Transgender is a term used out of frustration by you and your cohorts.

He now sees why you all say that — i.e., after flogging sense into your head and your cohorts’ head.

Here is the context of his comment wherein he noted that I showed no mercy while flogging you:

Moreover, he sha disgraced you when you tried to hoodwink him to your side:

TAO11:


Instead, the song literally says:
“…our father’s [Ado’s] birth took place within Benin, & his father is a king not an expat-cum-commoner…”

TAO11:

You must be very daft to not see how he disgraced you and your minions.

You all proposed that I must be a man because you al think a woman shouldn’t be this wicked. Haha

I don’t care to know both you & him.

What I see is simply that you tried to hoodwink him to his side. He disgraced you as appropriate.

See his comment below for a sweet gentle reminder:

You must be very daft to not see how he disgraced yo and your minions.

You all proposed that I must be a man because you al think a woman shouldn’t be this wicked.

Cheers.