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Nairaland Forum / SIRTeee15's Profile / SIRTeee15's Posts
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Lukuluku69: Lukuluku dey lie small small now. How can u say no one was killed for slandering your prophet. Na wa o. Such a bold face lie in the public. Make Una dey fear this God o. |
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LordReed2nd: Watch 1.5 hrs of Bart Erhman doing shalaye when he himself admitted his gist of a book didn't nullify the core Christian belief. U watch and tell me if he actually denied ever saying the quote I brought up here. That's all I care about. 1 Like |
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Igbek76: America ruled Afghanistan and installed a puppet govt for 20 good yrs b4 bowing out. Let's see how long Russia can hold on to eastern Ukraine. |
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SIRTeee15: Those who abandoned their faith because of atheist bible scholars like Bart Erhman don enter one chance bus. They don't know people these celebrity scholars are only doing it for the money and fame. When critiqued by sound academic scholars, they admit and speak the truth. That's what we have been crying here but they won't listen. The Christian faith is the only one that is archeological, historical, logical and philosophical valid. It's the undeniable truth. The right thing for any atheist to do right now is to jump out of that one chance bus with instant alacrity. Budaatum it's not too late to reverse and join the victory train to Beulah. LordReed there's space for u too in the train, don't be shy to embrace the truth. Kkins25, U no kuku sabi the atheism concept in the first place. Abandon the conspiracy junks and join the productive train to Beulah. Entrance ticket is free. That girl forming knowledge on this thread, too much knowledge begat sorrow. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Our deluded fake doctor here, let's forget the past. Hop on the train and be rel to yourself. We dont need your dangerous treatment on the train. There's the balm of Gilead. Except you scamming people and making money off their ignorance. I really don't understand why someone will be stubborn to insist on being atheist. The evidence against it is overwhelming. 1 Like |
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LordReed: See another evidence...at least your new found god admits to the truth when confronted with it. Don't U want to be like him. https://christianapologetics.org/biblical-items/the-elusive-bart-ehrman-quote/ 1 Like
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budaatum: U talk too much, no substance. Bring evidence, that's what I want to see. The verse u referring to clearly states man shall not live by bread alone but by words that come out of the LORD. So where can we find the words of this God. Which book contains the word of the LORD. Definitely not the ancient Egyptian books because they never called their God YAHWEH. So tell me the books that has the words of YAHWEH. And lest I forget YAHWEH definitely called himself the supreme God of the world. Read the book of Isaiah from cover to cover. FYI the book of Isaiah was written in 700bc b4 the Israelites came in contact with any greek or Roman or European that will influence the status of YAHWEH. You can imagine a deity calling himself The supreme and universal deity, and the God to all people and nation at a time most deities were clannish pantheons. That how powerful and certain the God of the bible is about himself. Pls read the book of Isaiah and see what God says about himself b4 coming here with more conspiracy theories. As an atheist your principle should be the same against all religion. If I was brainwashed to accept Christian religion by the white man, is it the same for the Muslims? Especially as Islam entered yorubaland b4 any foreigner set foot on the territory. Or are u saying it would be better to embrace Islam and worship Allah. Does that make sense to U as an atheist. because I don't understand your inconsistency rants here. If u want to be atheist be one. If u want to be Muslim sympathiser show your face and let's know how to deal with u. Debating exegesis with U is a waste of time. So let's discuss evidence based theology. 1 Like |
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LordReed: How do U know it's not Bart Erhman. Have u read his book misquoting Jesus. U people seem to hold this guy in some god-like infallible esteem. Read page 252 of misquoting Jesus Q&A edition, the statement is there. https://isjesusalive.com/are-the-doctrines-of-christianity-effected-by-textual-variants-even-bart-ehrman-says-no/ |
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budaatum: The verse up there has nothing to do with your claim. I noticed u always yapping about indoctrination of foreign religion via colonialism. Let me ask u some questions since U quoting the Koran, When was the first mosque built in yorubaland. Do U know balogun Aare Latosa, the great warrior of the kiriji war died a Muslim. Was it Arabic colonialism that made him drop his ancestral worship for Arabic one? I'm not in the mood for your up and down conspiracy junks. Christianity hasn't changed, this was the conclusion of liberal experts in bible scholarship. You can't know more than them. These are statements from Bart Erhman, read about him if u don't know him.
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budaatum:I believe in Christianity because it's historically, archeological, philosophical and logically valid and real. It's not a make believe faith. Even today, U can test it and confirm it's validity. budaatum: Can U tell us the bible verse that states the highlighted. budaatum:Did any of the Egyptian gods ever claimed to be a universal supreme deity? I do t think so. Then why should waste my time on such deity when it doesn't acknowledge my existence? budaatum: There's no religion or faith that has been scrutinised or critiqued like Christianity. Yet all bible scholars- am talking of liberal/secular agree the core tenet of Christianity remains the same since it began. It's never been changed. I'm happy to discuss the validity of John gospel with u if u sincerely want to learn. |
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JASONjnr: Learn to ask question and stop skipping bible study class. Your ignorant questions have answers. Do siblings born of the same mother and father have the same DNA. Do homozygous twins have the same DNA. And in case u don't know, our DNA as a human race is 99% similar, it only differs by 1%. That should tell u something. Even if u reject the Adam and Eve story, humanity genealogy ame from one source. 3 Likes |
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SIRTee15: 1 Like |
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LordReed:Literal or exegesis? Or let me ask, how do I interpret scriptures to your own understanding? LordReed:I told u I don't debate Christians on nairaland so don't know if they will agree with me or not. LordReed: Do not share the literal interpretation or exegesis? Which one. Pls if u do not answer above questions, I will end the conversation. The answer u looking for is already in my previous answers. |
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LordReed: Dude all Christians and non Christians have the same literal interpretation of the bible. That's what I'm saying. All my argument on this thread is strictly literal interpretation of the scriptures. So all Christians will define the scriptures same way literally As for exegesis, the interpretation may differ because that has to do with faith. But that's btw theist and that's not what I'm doing here. For example, all Christians will interpret John 1.18 the same. Jesus is the son of God and that makes him God. That's what the verse say- literal interpretation. However, Christians may defer on the exegesis- what the verse actually meant when context is applied. It doesn't matter if the Christian is a nairalander or not. I rarely come here to debate Christian nairalanders including Unitarians who have a different doctrine of Jesus. So I don't know if they will disagree with me on my exegesis- I'm not here for that I here to expose the ignorance of Muslims and atheist not Christians. 1 Like |
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kkins25: I think u should do a bit more study on historical theology. You made so many assumptions here that cannot be backed by any substantial evidence. I want to assume your argument is based on a book called Caesar's Messiah...if this is the case, I will advise u to read academic criticism of the book. I can't remember any question or claim U brought up that I didn't shred to pieces here. 1 Like |
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LordReed:11 There are ways u interpret the scriptures based on the hermeneutic phenomenology developed by the early church, and primarily related to understanding the Hebrew Scriptures. Each passage in Scripture is understood to have four meanings: Literal: What the passage says about the narratives itself. Allegorical: What the passage can tell us about Christ Moral: What the passage can teach us about how to live Anagogical/exegesis: What the passage tells us about our ultimate fate When I debate atheist, the only way I interpret the scriptures with them is literal. Exegesis has no meaning to U guys and the general consensus is that I guys base your conscience on subjective morality. Liberal bible scholars also interpret the scripture strictly literally. Does the passage or verse actually meant what Christians claim or we are simply reading meaning to it. If the bible say Jesus is the son of God and also God. That means the bible confirm jesus to be God. Simple. Now exegetical interpretation may want to explain the verse another way e.g some may say the verse is claiming Jesus is a lesser god or Jesus is divine but not God.... But that's for theist to debate i.e people who actually believe in the bible. For example all liberal bible scholars including academic Muslim scholars have admitted that if the gospel of John is true, then Jesus is definitely God. 1 Like |
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White women have no right to complain about someone else breastfeeding their babies. They forced black slave women to breastfeed their children during slavery. So that one no be talk. Calling police on your sister is stupid and insensitive, there are long term repercussions for such acts. Cow milk can be replaced but not relationship. She should breastfeed her baby until she has money to buy cow milk, it's only temporary and she won't die. Messing up your sister's record because of trivial issue is simply overboard. This could impact her abilit to get good jobs, mortgage, loan or even accessibility to credit. Oyinbo women and their obsession with police is nauseating, they call police for everything. No wonder their community is becoming messed up. 1 Like
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Maynmann: U this mad man is here again. |
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So I've always made this clear. All atheist who left Christianity did so because they don't understand Christianity. Not because they understood it and felt it doesn't make sense. You cant say something doesn't make sense or it's false if u don't understand it. This is the case of virtually all atheist and none has disappointed me or disprove my theory. Their understanding of Christian theology is extremely poor. Case in point is kkins25 who I debated if Peter actually said Jesus is God. Kkins is of the opinion Peter never called Jesus God because Peter called Jesus the son of God. He also argued Peter used the title God for the Father. According to kkins, if Jesus is the son of God then he couldn't be God and Peter couldn't have called father and son (Jesus) God the same time. From the above, it's obvious kkins had never studied the bible, didn't attend bible study class and knows nothing about christology/Christophany when he was a Christian. He did not have sound Christian doctrine b4 leaving the faith. It's unfortunate his church failed him, his pastor failed him, his Christian community failed him. And for this, I apologise on their behalf for a soul is lost in the process. You cant understand Christianity and then decide to leave. It's impossible. Jesus Christ is the TRUTH and once u KNOW HIM, U get stuck to the truth. It's an eternal union. The day I meet an atheist or an ex Christian that fully understands Christianity and it's doctrine is the day I will renounce my faith. I will leave u with this bible verse from John 1.18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. |
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kkins25: What do U mean by Aramaic bible is irrelevant. As at the time of Jesus, few Jews could read and understand Hebrew exception being religious leaders. The common people had to rely on translation from Hebrew to Aramaic to understand the bible. The written form had memra replaced for the personhood of the LORD in Aramaic translation. This was before Christianity and had nothing to do with greeco-roman influence. So why did the Jews in 2nd temple period start using memra for God. That's my point. What do U mean by Hebrew bible use messenger of God for the LORD. Stop capping bro, quit the lies. If u don't know something, either ignore or learn. U don't win all argument. Check Hebrew bible verses for places it says memra in Aramaic translation. It never said messenger of God. What do u mean by theologian? Is Bart Erhman a theologian? Do U know Bart Erhman? He's a core atheist as it comes. I brought Bart Erhman here because he's the most popular liberal bible scholar and he's not a theologian. Pls read about him. I'm happy to debate u the authorship of new testament writers starting with letters of Peter. That will be later in the day. Both internal and external evidence of a book are used to validate claims in a book. Pls study textual criticism in the academic world. It's funny u quoting the bible to debunk Christian claims but u don't want me to do the same. We not debating theology here, what we doing is bring up textual evidence to back my claim- this could be internal or external so long as it meets textual criticism criteria. Finally, once again u don't know the bible enough. Reason U left. How can u bring Peter's writing saying father is God to invalidate his claim that Jesus is not God. Peter called Jesus a man in the book of acts. That doesn't mean Jesus can't be God. That Jesus is the son of God is the main reason he's God. The question is do u know what the son of God means in the new testament. No u don't. because if u do U won't bring Jesus as the son of God as evidence of Jesus can't be God. Do U even know Jesus was killed by the religious leaders? The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[e] 65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. Jesus couldn't have been God if he isn't the son of God. Do U get it now? 2 Likes
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kkins25: I think we should all agree u waffling here. Possibly because of your poor knowledge of the scriptures. Only Muslims argue Paul was the one who told Christians not to follow the law which we all know is rubbish. Jesus told his disciples to ignore the law of Sabbath. Jesus told his disciples they need not follow the ceremonial dietary requirements. He told his followers a man is only allowed to marry wife and must not divorce her except for adultery. Jesus condemned those who wanted to stone an adulterous woman as commanded in the law of Moses. He told his followers that the over 600 mosaic law has been summarised into 2 simple laws and that's all that matters. Even the disciples of Jesus including Peter and James agreed gentiles should not be burdened with circumcision because it's no longer valid. Read about the first council of jerusalem and the letter of James to the gentiles acts of apostles 15 for insight. What do U mean by Paul was the one who told Christians to break the law? My friend, get your facts right and don't waffle pls. What u should be asking is why did the Jewish Christians ignore Jesus instruction by trying to obey irrelevant mosiac laws which have been completed in Jesus? The law of Moses is completed and made perfect in Jesus. We are to follow Jesus and not the law of Moses. kkins25: It's evidenced by my interaction with u that u don't understand Christianity. U left Christianity because u dont understand it not because u think it's false. This is common among so called intelligent or educated minds who started asking questions about the bible but not diligent enough to research properly or were swayed by the beer parlour anti Christian gossips and gist they watch on YouTube. Seriously, it's the same theme amongst your likes 'I left christianity because I don't understand trinity or because of some videos I watched on YouTube' How can u base a life changing decision on a tiktoker? There's a reason no liberal bible scholar worth his credential will open his mouth and say Jesus is not real even when there's no extant evidence of his existence outside the bible. They dare not- it will end in humiliation. Bart Erhman wrote a book called misquoting Jesus where he claimed the extant manuscripts of the gospel we have are full of errors. Yet the following year, he admitted in an academic journal that none of the gospel extant manuscripts contradict each other and all validates the core message of gospel. Infact he wrote 99% of the errors are scribal errors regarding spelling mistakes and are essentially inconsequential and there's no reason to doubt what's written in the four gospel books because it conform with extants manuscripts in existence. You see Bart Erhman can get away writing gists in best seller books for his gullible fans and for money. But he dare not write nonsense in academic works otherwise his reputation will be ruined. Take it from me, Christianity is real. It's the only reason I believe there's a God. No other religion validates the presence of God like Christianity. None. I hope we discuss more here and I will open your eyes to the truth of christianity based on facts and historical research. The evidence is real. That's why nobody that understands Christianity leaves Jesus Christ for some false religion or atheism..none. It makes no sense. |
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kkins25: I'm not here to discuss John 1.1 but what 2nd temple Judaism understand by the word logos in their language- Hebrew or Aramaic, not greek or Latin. Since u already cast aspersion at Hellenised Jews, we will leave philo out of it. Now let's talk about the Aramaic bible called Targum, the same Aramaic bible used by Jesus in the 1st century AD. Now in the aramaic bible, whenever God appears in person like when God appeared to Abraham or Moses, the term memra (Aramaic for "word" ) is often used instead of 'the LORD', especially when referring to a manifestation of God that could be construed as anthropomorphic. E.g instead of saying 'The LORD appeared to Abraham', it will read 'memra (the word) appeared to Abraham'. THAT IS LOGOS. This showed the Jews believed in the manifestation of the 'WORD' appearing as a person and being God. This aramaic bible use of the word memra stem from the understanding of the Jews belief in what is the word of God. They understand it to be an active force proceeding from God with a life of it's own. In the Targum, the Word or Memra is doing, being, and acting as God and yet we see that he is also with God, a distinct essence apart from Him. And the Memra (Word) of the LORD said, ‘Let there be light’; and there was light by His Memra (Word). A (Genesis 1:1–3; Targum Neofiti) In fact, the Memra is the one who rested after all his work: “On the seventh day, the Memra of the LORD completed his work which he had created, and there was Sabbath.” (Genesis 2:3; Targum Neofit This is the Christian understanding of TRINITY- manifestation of God in more than one person. This evidence and belief is shared by old testament scriptures and 2nd temple Judaism. All this before anyone was ever called Christian. And this is the same JEWISH belief John wrote about in his gospel by letting us know memra became flesh and dwelt among us. That is the origin of the concept my friend, a deeply rooted Jewish belief from the old testament. It wasn't any extrapolation from the greek or Roman ideology. |
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kkins25: I really don't know where to start correcting u. Did u just say Paul didn't say Jesus is God? Are u kidding? So explain this verses from Paul. Colossians 1 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Col 2.9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, However there's one particular Pauline passage I want us to discuss. Philipians 2.5-11 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. Philippians 2:5-11 is considered by scholars a pre-Pauline hymn. This mean the passage wasn't Paul's original idea but borrowed the creed from an existing concept. Philippians was written around A.D. 60. Since the hymn pre-dates the writing of Philippians, we could speculate that the hymn was composed in the 50s or perhaps even in the 40s. This means the deity belief of Jesus was a concept known and accepted amongst early Christians and the beliefs upon which the hymn are based would date even in the 30s AD. Considering the fact that Paul took for granted his audience’s belief in Jesus’ Deity among the philipians , it is proves that these early Christians believed Jesus to be divine from the beginning IE as early as 30s/40s AD, Christians were already saying Jesus is God Regarding Tertullian and trinity. Are u saying no church father believed Jesus is God prior to Tertullian. Is that what u saying. because I can bring writings from father Ignatius, Clement of Rome and Polycarp who all wrote Jesus is God. This were 1st century AD church fathers. |
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kkins25: Ok let's thrash this first. Now let's check what early Jewish Christians believe about their faith. We will look at both internal and external evidence. There's a book called Didache which is an Eucharist/catechism used by early Jewish Christians during worship. Scholars agree this book was written btw 50-70 AD. It was even considered as a canon but didn't eventually make it. Now how does this book tell us to baptise? In whose name should we baptise? What did the book say about the son of God. Now what did Peter, John and James write in their letters. Did it confirm Paul's writings, did Peter agree with Paul. Evidence Peter believed Jesus is God 2 peter1.1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Did Peter agree with Paul 2 Peter 3 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Did John agree with the gentiles regarding divinity of Christ. 1 John 4 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html
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studyless123:UK govt should be firm on this policy. Any university that depends on foreign students to survive should target Chinese students- those ones go back home, or close shop, better still they can merge. Close to 3 million people entered the UK in the last 2 yrs and they not going back. The UK is no longer a wealthy country, the pressure on schools, NHS, housing and public infrastructure is overwhelming. A country do not depend on revenue from education and tourism to survive. Those are just adjuvants and should not the main source of revenue 2 Likes 1 Share |
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Qasim6: Still thinking of how to respond. Here's another verse we need to dissect to understand who is Jesus Christ. John 20 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, [f]“Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed Ask yourself why would someone call Jesus God right in his face and he didn't reject the claim. Instead reprimanded him for not believing. Why did Jesus accept to be called God in the presence of his disciples if we are to assume Jesus is a honest and righteous person. Thomas called him God and he did not correct him. Why? What do U think? Is this another ambiguous verse? Ohyoudidn't u are free to join the ring. I'm happy to enlighten you all. This is not to make u Christians but to understand the person of Jesus. |
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TenQ: Happy new year my brother in Christ. This year is a call to defeat Taqiya and misinformation being spread by Muslims. We must intensify our effort to defeat false hood and teach the truth. The message should also go to some of our Christian brothers and sisters who are naive and oblivious of the machination of the evil one. This is a year of truth. |
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Qasim6: The unitarian Christian bible also has John 14.7-9 which clearly states whosoever has seen me has seen the father. Now unlike you, I absolutely agree with those verses u quoted including John 17.3. it's u guys that conveniently avoid the verse u deem embarrassing. Now the question is why would Jesus say 'That they may know you the only true God' or 'why call me good, only God is good' BUT yet calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath and says anyone who sees him has seen the father. These are powerful words, u can't just shove it under the carpet because u don't agree with it. That's why I'm here to help u to know who is Jesus Christ. Now let me ask u again, why would Jesus say anyone who has seen me has seen the father. Leave trinity out of this, I'm not even talking trinity neither do I plan to go there. This is about Jesus Christ as written in the gospel. Jesus did not mention the word Trinity so it's inconsequential to topic of discussion. I'm here to discuss what JESUS SAID ABOUT HIMSELF NOT WHAT PEOPLE SAID ABOUT HIM What did he say about himself? I'm here to help u know Jesus Christ. Finally, I would help u remove the apologetic lie that Jesus was a Muslim. Jesus is not a Muslim and can never be a Muslim. 1 Like |
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Qasim6: Who is Jesus? What did he say about himself. I'm happy to teach you about Jesus if u willing to learn. I will also prove to you using the Koran that Jesus is not a Muslim and can never be a Muslim. Ohyoudidn't u are also free to join this debate. I sincerely hope u guys will not change the goalpost midway and start shouting the bible is corrupt...which is the national anthem of Muslim apologetics when debate isn't going their way. Now let's start with this verses John 14 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Why did Jesus say whoever has seen him has seen the father. What exactly does he mean by that statement. |
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kkins25: You are yet to answer one single question thrown at u. Just one U came here with your bogus greeco-roman/European source for Christianity but u can't defend it. All u do is waffling and throwing empty words all over the place. Words u can't defend. I wonder who is the comedian. I repeat my question in case u pretend not to see it Tell me what the second temple Jews regard as Logos. Waiting for your answer. How do Gentiles see Jesus as the Messiah? Do they believe he's the anointed one who will establish the kingdom of God here on earth by defeating Israel enemies. If they believe he's the Messiah prophesied in the old testament, then why are they not following the mosaic laws. Why is there contention btw the Jewish Christians and gentiles regarding FF the law of Moses. How did Paul present messianic claim of Jesus to the gentiles? What was he anointed for and what is the Kingdom of God he established. I will advise u pick a bible and read the book of acts and Romans then come back to debate me. 1 Like |
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