palma:

Hmmmm, I agree with everybody both Muslims and christian. But abeg before anyone tears my head off, na which religion Obasanjo dey do sef? And sorry o what is Jonathan's religion? and before una attack me say Jonathan got there by default remember he could have been impeached. Can somebody tell what religion shonekan is into or nnamdi azikwe and also aguiyi-ironsi. Well what our country needs is a good leader, I don't care who rules as long as that person is Godfearing. Even if a pastor rules he could be corrupt before his term is over.

You make sense jare, Dont mind the naijaking1 wey dey jump up and down about religious stuff maybe obasanjo and jonathan na muslim after he will be replying saying people are ignorant, Its about Good Leadership.

If a state choose to do sharia so be it, Its simply a law and i dont think anybody should have any problem with that after all this is not an arab saying, "when in rome,do as the romans do" Abeg naijaking1 pack well and lets hope for a good Leader, ALthough you are entitled to your opinion so as the pastor as well,

Peace.

@nopuqeater

Its good you went through so much trouble but i can guarantee you its not worth it in forums.


@ajoguegbe

I am only telling you the logical truth and if you think my quote below my post is bad (which if you understand it well you will know its the most logical thing anyone will ever tell you).I already made myself clear about where i stand on killing which aint fair,But ignoring the fact that somebody has to do it will be totally hypocrisy. Come on man the animal kills whether to eat or not, politicians, terrorist and so on and everyone of them has their reasons dont forget majority of us will kill to defend oursleves from Armed Robbers and Assassins if given that chance.

My advice for you is not only to get wisdom but prepare for it because you dont seems to understand alot of thing but if you are patient and open your mind you will see the meanings right infront of you. MINDS ARE LIKE PARACHUTES THEY ONLY FUNCTION WHEN THEY ARE OPEN.

Peace.

@jcross,

Haba, Leave all this anti religions articles most of them copy and paste even from one website to the other, i have answers to most of your questions but i dont like to deal on forums because the results is always not meaningful at the end of the day so i still insist you get an islamic scholar if you cant find then i will be willing to help. I have gone to that website and many more and seen alot of anti christian/islamic articles , You must first be willing to learn before you criticise. And that goes for everyone including myself.

I hope you understand.

Peace.

@ajoguegbe

Obviously you lack some knowledge, However i will appreciate that if you are a xtian then you should try to seek wisdom before you tarnish yourself because you show nothing about a quality of a xtian.

All the list of crimes you have mentioned that the Prophet commits (which i dont think that was the way it happened but lets assume it happens like such) can be found in the bible amongst all other prophets.They might be in different forms but still crimes.

Just calm down and its better to ask if you dont understand somethings well and not just reading some anti islam articles and not finding out from its true source. And that goes out to some Muslims that says rubbish after reading some anti christian articles as well.

Please guys i like a forum with intelligent ideas and not ridiculous claims.Am not here to argue just gets your theories and take them to an intelligent muslim scholar and he will give you good answers to your so called crimes.

You dont sound like someone who likes trouble for all this so why not just cool down and try getting some answers from the right sources and not the sources that says what you want to hear.

@Pimpu

You shouldnt have done so much trouble,you should know the poster has no idea of what hes talking about. you shouldnt blame him but the articles he reads.

@vedaxcool

I understand lying against a religion makes us vex but we still have to be patient because i have always told my friends online forums are not the best ways to discuss such a sensitive issue like religion.

I like my discussions illustrated with intelligence and facts,

Peace.

There are some more but i dont think it will be applicable since they are xtians so they wont misinterprets you,

Peace.

With undoubtable proof the Painful part is that the 9 11 was orchestrated by the american governments themselves just to invade iraq, Still some moment of silence anyway.

Peace.

Simple, Sura Al-Baqara, Verse 156,

Send it in English ooo lol,

Peace.

@ababda


What you wrote is quite funny, But if you dont understand somethings why not ask some muslim scholars and it should be clear to you instead of going through some anti islamic sites and pasting whatever you have read,


Am not Impressed, Get more findings right because we all knew moon worshipping has been in existence before islam and incase you dont read the side of the story,he destroyed all the idols saying theres only One God, I dont think theres anywhere have come across seeing a muslim bowing down for a crescent, hmmmm if they truly worshipped it i dont think they should be shy about it, Atleast we know alot of well known religion worshipping their idols with grace and without a feelings of shame,

Now a question for you,

If you claim the muslim worship the moon because you find moon in all the mosques you have seen(Mind you it isnt only the moon but along with the star as well), Does that mean that the xtian worships the cross because we can also find that in all the churches?,

Please for the sake of human reasoning please get your fact right, Nobody is worshipping the cross or the moon its just a symbol for both religion,

Peace.

@noetic and Adiona


Well i dont think there should be any reason for post like this because both the God of xtians and Muslims have commited this Killings either in the past or presently,


And adiona try to be reasonable for a bit,because you cant judge the whole religion based on the people you have met, Are you trying to say some xtians are not jujuish like you call it and wicked? hmmmm think again, And do note most times terorism is an act of being oppressed, We should be careful with our claims,


If we take our time to think about this then you will understand theres no reason to jump into conclusion either being a muslim or xtian, APPLY A BIT OF PATIENCE that way you will sound morelike a xtian, And that goes to you to noetic,


Peace,

@kunle


I will like to talk to you one on one maybe via yahoo messenger on your above post, Do you think you can drop me your email,


Peace,

@Horus


Do you have any idea why the date was purposely put on the 25th of Dec which was the pagan holiday and also what was suppose to be the meaning of the santa claus stuff?


Peace,

Hey,

Have heard about it but seriously i think its 12/21/2012 according to the mayans calender,

I have about 3 dvds on it (not Movies ooo) , But am still not sure if it really talked about the world coming to an end,

Peace.

@1forall


Its better to be quiet if you have nothing to say rather than not making sense,


@poster


Have heard that is true before but i will look it up again.


Peace,

Peace,

noetic15:



1. The bible (Genesis 1) talks about Elohim making the heaven and earth. Elohim signifies plurality, indicating the presence of more than one being at the point of creation.
The bible starts by stating in its first verse that "in the beginning, ELOHIM created heaven and earth". The bible does not tell us how heaven was created, but I can deduce from this verse that both the heavens and the earth were created at a point in time called the "beginning". This implies that heaven did NOT precede the earth.
The implication of this verse is that there were beings (as described in human language) at the point of creation. This is because Elohim is a plural word. Since the heaven was not created at that point, who were the beings that were present at the point of creation? the bible answers this question itself.
In verse 2 the bible states that "the spirit of God was moving over the formless nature of the earth". who is the spirit of God? is He a person? or a being? . .  . The bible also provides answers. in john 1:12 . . . The bible calls this spirit the power of God given to believers at the point of salvation. The bible also calls those that are led by this spirit the sons of God (romans 8:14).
The implication of the above verses is that at the point of creation, one of the beings present called the holy spirit was not a person or a being but the POWER of God, The holy spirit is simply the POWER of God. what then is God without His power? what makes God, God without His power?
The bible proceeds further at the point of making man. . . .there was a conversation between the plural "beings" present . ,   . .one told the others to let us make man in our own image, the bible does not record any response from the others.

My submission on this events in Genesis one is that Jesus was part of the beings present, but just as we understand that the holy spirit (who was also present ) is not a being, person or figure but the power of God. . .this thread intends to unravel the personality of Jesus.
bear in mind that Jesus boldly asserts that He precedes the point in time called "beginning" (rev 22:13)

2. In john 8:58 Jesus said that "before Abraham was, I am". This statement is subject to several interpretations, but the reaction of the listeners is NOT subject to several interpretations. They picked up stones to stone Him to death. They accused Him of blasphemy.
The implication of this verse is that Jesus BOLDLY asserted to whoever cared to listen that He was/is GOD.

3. From two above one can state that Jesus appeared to the moses in the burning bush and was the one who confidently asserted that He was I AM that I AM.
in 1 corinthians 10:1-12 The bible offers cogent analysis into the ontological divinity of Jesus. the following are deductible from 1 corth 10:1-12
a.  Jesus followed the israelites from Egypt to the promised land (verse 4)
b. Jesus was the rock that was struck by moses which produced water (verse 4)
c. when the children of israel mumurred against God and tempted Him. . . . they were tempting Jesus (verse 9)

4. In john 3:13 implies that unlike any primordial being (including prophets) no man had gone into/outside heaven except for Himself who descended from it.

The implication of the above (3 and 4) is that Jesus preceded the earth, the patriarchs, prophets and all those we know of. it also implies that Jesus preceded the heavens and the earth (rev 22:13).

. . . . .brb

Since you deduced those stuff above now makes me wonder if this can be true or has some elements of truth in it check this
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/genesis/


Peace.

Hmmmmmmmmmm


Maybe its the JET we are talking about here and not a car , If it was a car no one will believe that story i guess,


Peace,

@viaro


Gen 1:1 is complete itself and yes that is CONFIRMED just has i said earlier.


Gen 1:2  You are right but what am trying to say is that verse 2 is telling us the status of the earth before its now being created or maybe the word to use it FILLED,


I know it might be hard to see my point here but its actually not that hard,


Take for example the box named BINGO  i talked about,  Now bingo has a box already existing but its not yet called BINGO but its still just a BOX,  Now Until after the box was completely filled(created or manipulated) It was now named BINGO, Now it is possible to ignore calling it a box in the first place because seeing it they will know its a Box so it will be normal to just go ahead and talk about BINGO since the box has a name now, Do note that now we can say BINGO HAS BEEN CREATED even though it was just filled up, Its still the same thing.


In otherwords, am not saying the earth as not yet being created in verse 2 not at all (pardon me if i used the word created instead of filled) but the earth has already existed and created maybe on another name before its called earth but this earth according to verse 2 was without form and void(empty) that was what verse 2 is telling us, but until after the complete FILLING of the earth was it COMPLETED,


Am sure you still understand my line of debate here about the waters in the verse 2 whereas the creation/filling actually started in Verse 3


Do note that spiritually alot of things can happen without our explanation but we are talking based on the POSTERS scientific point of view, 


Please feel free to contact me,


Peace.

@viaro



The IT is the EARTH  and Before it was CREATED that was what verse 2 is telling us here,  i think its simple,  Its like having a box that you will name BINGO now bingo was without form and void, Note that the name can be given to anything even before it got created,  Please read Gen 1 - 3 and if you find any questions to what i said be free to ask,


I understand your point of view and i think you mis understood me but the truth am refering here is THE TRUTH ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEF,  He mentioned TRUTH in his statement and i was trying to let him understand that the truth itself based on religion cant be proven completely correctly without errors until if world ends, Which i think its the reasonable fact about any religion or atheist. If we continue to argue about religion both xtian and muslims and atheists will continue to prove and disprove their claims, 


And to OLAADEGBU sorry if that word "IGNORANCE" sounds offensive,  Seriously i didnt mean it,


Muslims belief in what they do and xtians believe in what they do and so as the atheists,  This is just going to come up with a whole big argument without anything positive,


Note that its not all just about the TRUTH here is about the results.


Its easier to change the world and make it a better place by actions and not by words, MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE EITHER XTIANS OR MUSLIMS DOES THAT YOU KNOW,   


Peace.

@ogaga4luv

Can this be true http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/genesis/


Peace,

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Obviously hes starting to get frustrated, Anyway the bible showed us water existed according to verse 2 which was telling us the status of the earth before it got created in which the same verse said it was without form and void (empty) Verse 1 is a summary of the heave and earth creation while verse 2 was the status and never tells us anything about the creation of the water,


Really for every religion the only truth you seek for will be found on the day of judgment and not now or in this world, So theres no point talking about the truth here because i wont like to go into too many details about this,


You are a christian fine and you ve showed your ignorance to how much you will defend a book that was written many years after jesus death( meaning he wasnt alive to confirm if any was wrong or being exagerated), some of the new testament writers talked as if they have met jesus one on one and we all knew they didnt, Do you also know that the KJV was written and authorised by that king as well (meaning he could easily disapprove anyone or verses he doesnt want, Note that there are many compilations of the bible then), It was said that Moses was the Author of Genesis so i guess he was there when God created the earth (atleast if he had a dream or revelation he should have started from there),


I wouldnt have said so much but your mention of TRUTH really hurt me because i believe in the Bible as well but from my readings and enough findings i came to a conclusion that the ORIGINAL BIBLE HAS BEEN LONG GONE,


HINT: Do you know there are now several bible translation now not 1 or 2, and they dont even have the same meaning when you read them by verse,


I hope one day you know that the only WAY, TRUTH AND THE LIGHT IS BEING A GOOD PERSON and i can assure you that will guarantee you THIS WORLD and even the HEREAFTER if ever theres one,


Peace,

I'm glad there isnt any more argument about the waters stuff however, Your explanations are baseless according to the light we are talking about here because it obviously says there were morning and evening in those days and those light are not spiritual "God is light" It shows a physical light,

But however to avoid further argument you should have just sent this quote to me since "It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed"

Instead of writing down so many words.As simple and short as that statement is answers to what you are and would believe either scientifically true or not because someone with a RELIGIOUS MIND is about what he/she BELIEVES AND NOT WHAT IS ACTUALLY REAL, This is fact IF ONLY YOU BUT KNOW,


Peace.

You guys should just chill ok? Just because someone post a thread does not mean you should all reply to the thread as if it makes sense,

and Uplawal cant answer the question simply because there is nothing of sure reward in the quran, So I think you should dont always believe people and do your research before replying,


I wonder who deduced it was in the quran


Guess shit is real


Peace.

@OLAADEGBU


Please pick up your bible and read Gen 1 1 - 3


You will understand that verse 1 is a summary of what happened But VERSE 2 was telling us the status of earth when it was about to be created, take note that VERSE 3 now starts with the creation of the earth,


Your quote "Verse 2 shows how He formed and filled the universe and the earth in particular" which i find completely wrong because it doesnt show us how it was formed and filled and infact it was JUST TELLING US HOW THE EARTH WAS ORIGINALLY BEFORE THE CREATION STARTED, please,


If you read it carefully and scientifically then am sure the english there isnt difficult and its self explanatory, you will find out that the waters have already existed even when the earth was without form and was said to be void(empty) before the creation of anything bro,


If we take a scientific look at the creation of the earth according to GEN you will understand that it is pure allegory, Please take note of the word SCIENTIFIC


And your theory about the day and night too was completely unaccepted, Because According to scientist and i repeat according to scientist there cant be a day and night without the sun and moon because that is what causes it, FORGET ABOUT THE LIGHT YOU CANT EXPLAIN FOR NOW, until they found that light then you will have your scientific back ups,


Your quote "scientists have a long way to go in their effort to discover the workings of God" so please for now it is still not scientifically supported that is what am telling you, Your claims should be with a scientific proof and since is not for now i think you should just understand its not, Although i quite agree with you on the above quote as well but for now please chill,


Peace.

@jagunlabi


The topic is you getting 72 virgins for joining is islam and i am telling you it isnt there as simple as that no point arguing on that,


However, if you are looking for a reward for joining islam then you cant get your answers here and saying bad things about other peoples religion, You know there isnt any religion that is perfect, I believe you just want to play with the thread but thats all good, A good laughter wont do any harm because i laughed as well,


For xtians and what they believed in they have their rewards and for muslims and what they believed in they also have theirs, If you wanted to ask about a muslim's reward then i will advice you meet a islamic scholar who learnt and understood the quran but not by posting threads like this, Its a simple logic and i hope you dont find it difficult to understand,


Peace,

Ok, Good debates, What is funny here is that both of you are making good points and quoting it from the bible,

DOESN'T THESE MEANS CONTRADICTIONS?

Peace

@poster,


Theres nothing like you getting 72 virgins in the Quran, If you have it then please kindly forward it here,

Peace,

@OLAADEGBU


I dont know if you read carefully or you just combine so many english to suit yourself,


The argument here is If it tallys with the scientific proof,


From your last paragraph, (Therefore, the simple, straightforward meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that, when God created the earth at the beginning, it was initially formless, empty and dark and, God's Spirit was there above the waters. It was through His creative energy that the world was then progressively formed and filled during the 6 days of creation)

You dont still understand, If it was empty and formless where did the spirit of God finds the waters before moving upon its face(note the earth was empty and water hasnt been created)


Provide logical explanations where the water from an empty and formless earth came from Simple,


And for the second question HOW CAN THERE BE A MORNING AND EVENING WITHOUT A SUN, (please be careful and dont repeat that word again saying the sun is not needed for day and night.even if its rotation) scientifically everybody knows what causes day and night is the rotation of the earth around the sun and the moon as the night,


And if you say it was light and you dont know where the light came from scientifically then it means the bible is not scientifically proven about the creation of the earth


Abeg take am easy with your illustrate and read well,


Am always online on the yahoo messenger if you will like a chat about this, p.onyemsp@yahoo.com


Peace,

@OLAADEGBU


Farabale, I know you said nothing in the bible has contracdicted any scientific facts ok no problem, Am not saying its not possible in the spiritual realm(who knows) But please note your word SCIENTIFICALLY),


My first question: Just explan this aspect Gen 1 vs 1 - 2 thats says "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" KJV


Please explain scientifically how water can be there when something is formless was said to be EMPTY, to me It can be spiritually correct but at the moment its SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG,


2nd Question: How is it possible to have morning and evening for about 3 days of creation when what causes day and night was just created on the FOURTH DAY, spiritually possible but SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG,


Just curious,

Peace,

@SeanT21

Please face the topic would you, We both know that Both Christians and muslims can never know the skin colour of their God, Dont be such and idiot trying to cause another uproar on this thread,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

@MrbrownJay

I laughed when i saw you copied those contradictions from a well known site,

Anyway they are quite much and i wouldnt have time to reply them all but here is an advice get a quran and try to verify everything you pasted before posting it here ok.


I am sure you didnt get to verify them well if not you would have seen most are not contradictions, PLease do,

Regards,