ifeness:


So why are Christians celebrating December 25th? Dont you believe the virgin birth anymore?

Dude, if you want some education on Christian theology - I will be happy to engage you. But using per-assumptions without any factual reference or evidence is very very ignorant.

Christians choose a day in the year to celebrate Christ birth; it doesn't mean He was born on December 25th. There is no where in the Bible where it said Jesus was born on December 25th; I have addressed this many many times with you already.

ifeness:


I know enough about Jesus. There are better things to know than trouble myself over a Jewish myth. Better stories to read and better things to worry about.

Really? So much so that you believed he was born on December 25th ? Can you cite your source for that please

FrancisTony

I think you're hell-bent in admitting that lower animals practise homosexuality.
My proof is on 0page of this thread and google would be of help if it's not satisfying.
I'm done here.

Your cup of tea. Gays want to use any kind of reason to support their life-style even when the facts say otherwise.

A bisexual male is attracted to both male and female. He can impregnate a girl.

Were we talking about bi-sexual or homosexuals? Stop shooting yourself in the foot.

A gay male is attracted to only a male. He can give birth through artificial insemination- a situation whereby his spèrm would be inserted in a woman virginä artificially.

Why does he need a heterosexual woman? Why does he need her egg but doesn't want her vagina? That is even besides the point. And no - numerous men who were once homosexuals turned over to become heterosexuals. So, your theory has holes in it

Keep ranting.

No vex, it was my fault to expect a proper response from you

The last time I checked, heterosexual sex isn't taught in schools.

You must be living in your closet then

I wasn't taught that sex is only between a man and woman.

But you were taught biology and reproduction happens only between a male and a female. That is how we sustain and continue our culture and civilization. If you decide to put your penis in another man's ass; that is your cup of tea.

Meanwhile, Nigerian gays weren't screaming for gay marriage

Nigerian, American, European or whatever flavor homosexuality comes in - it makes no difference - heterosexuals or straight people should not be compelled to accept any of person's sexual behavior and painted as intolerant if we want to have an open discussion about it.

Homosexuality doesn't benefit society!

frosbel:
The Virgin birth is not important because it is a MYTH just like the Trinity and Hell Fire .

"so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith." - 1 Timothy 1:4

So, Timothy is saying the virgin birth as accounted in other Gospels like Matthew, Mark are myths?

FrancisTony

Don't go there. I know what the dude was trying to say- and it means that since there are gay animal, human gays are animalistic, not forgetting that animals practice heterosexuality.

Point noted

By the way, I think most gay animals are bisexual.

Gay animals - are you for real? If homosexuality in animals was normal as heterosexual is - it would be displayed in all species. The only species where it's a trend are humans. In other animals it's an exception not a norm.

A homosexual man can give birth if wishes.

Then the case of homosexuality falls apart. If I am attracted to only men why should I choose to be with a woman?

It's not all heterosexuals that are fertile.

That's an exception and not a decision. The choice of homosexuals having kids is a choice and not an exception. For heterosexuals it's an exception and not a choice.

I don't see a reason why what two men are doing in their closet should be your business

It's my business when they want to change the definition of marriage to support their behavior. It's my business when I have to teach my 5 year old what homosexuality is when I haven't even taught him what sex is. It's my business when the academic curricula in schools have to be changed to support homosexual behaviors. So, if it was only in your closet - we will not be having this discussion.

FrancisTony:

Animals engage in heterosexual sex too.
Does that mean you're an animal?

Poor attempt at being smart.

At it's basic level we are all animals. The fact is heterosexual relationships are responsible for the continuation of every society, civilization and almost in all cases in the animal kingdom where there is a male and female.

The fact is this: it is only in humans that homosexuality appears to be rational. The lion, the goat, the dog, the croc, the bear and 1001 different types of animals don't leave the opposite sex to be with the same sex as a trend.

ifeness:


No one is stopping you from celebrating your monthly ritual. Like i said,it is your belief and the same belief practiced thousands of years rolling even for other thousands of "saviors"

Back-stepping are we? Here is my advise to you:

1. In this day and age where we have access to a wealth of information and research, I humbly ask that you do a personal research to the two sides of the coins using historical data to decide if anything is true or false.
2. Joining the band-wagon and supporting a view without cross-examining it makes you prejudice and sometimes ignorant when you don't know all the facts.

The Bible at no point said Jesus was born on December 25th; that was your first mistake. Your second mistake was to claim that Horus mother was a virgin. When we started going over the facts, the fog started to gradually fade away and here we are.

If you want to know about Jesus, I suggest you do this: Don't go to the Bible; Go to the earliest sources and historical account of Him before the Bible was compiled. If what you find out is myth; then so be it.

Cheers mate.

ifeness

Listen,The real story here belongs to Horus,which was later hijack by Dionysus and Mithra. This is not a debate and I am not ready to argue over Myths like i told you earlier. It is not my problem if you worship and believe the stories of Jesus because it took the place of other mythical figures.

It can belong to Songo - it makes no difference

Jesus is the not the first virgin story and probably won't be the last. I cannot debate with someone who copies and paste. I noticed you have been looking for that information for about 2 hours before posting that. What is the point here when everyone knows Horus's story was hijacked by the Council of Nicene.

Did I ever content that Jesus was the 1st virgin? You seem to be going around in circles here. If what I have posted is wrong, please refute it. You made a claim that Horus mother was a virgin; on further analysis, it was shown that was wrong. You claimed Horus was born on December 25th, which came to be another mis-representation. For you to be honest and admit it; you are here playing pretend. I find it hard to engage critics who are not objective.

Go ahead an celebrate your December 25th,its been happening for thousands of years.

You seem to be the one running away with your tail between your legs when the premise of your argument has fallen over your head. Perhaps you should enjoy the Holiday that December 25th brings for you instead of you complaining . I am almost 100% positive that where you are and all other countries that decide to put aside December 25th don't do it for any other i.e Horus, Dionysus or Mithra but for Jesus

BrightEye:


My assertion was that it is true, and i am convinced it is. I was not forcing anyone to believe it, neither was I claiming it as a golden truth, but rather indirectly imploring everyone to examine this and similar claims carefully, maybe they would come into the conclusion I do without any scientific proof. This is a reality.

Bros, there are two outcomes here - either you are right or you are wrong. We can easily prove both. If you are right; then prove it - If you can't prove it; then you are wrong.

ifeness

Who is being shallow minded between you and I. You have based your whole life on a myth. I am not asking you to stop believing in your myth,I'm only letting you know that that story was initiated in Egypt,long before the Jesus myth ever existed.

It's hard to debate with someone who is not objective. Let's get into the facts

Asking me how Horus was born is not the question. It shows you only read one book which obviously seemed to be false.

Really, who brought Horus into the picture? How can you make a claim and then side step when asked to provide details?

It is obvious majority of the Bible stories were copied from other civilizations and mostly Egypt. 25TH happened to be the day and month Horus birthday was celebrated and so became Christmas day......what a coincident! Isis seems to have been the originally a virgin

Whenever we get down to the facts, pre-assumptions and hear-says disappears. For your record:

1. Horus was born during the month of Khoiak (October/November), not December 25th. I guess you didn't find time to research that properly. Also, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ's actual birthday
2. Isis was never a virgin; she was a widow of Osiris. Her husband, the god Osiris, was killed by his enemy Seth, the god of the desert and later dismembered. Isis managed to retrieve all of Osiris body parts except his phallus, which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by catfish. Isis used her goddess powers to temporarily resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus (i.e. peni.s). She was then impregnated by a dead god with a golden peni.s and Horus was conceived. So, can you please explain to me how is this a virgin birth and how it is similar to Jesus?

ifeness:


We are talking about Virgin birth here not twins. Stick to the Virgin birth please.

Horus was the first that was said to have been born of a Virgin.

You brought Horus into the equation - we were talking about Jesus. Your statement implied that Jesus virgin birth is a copycat (a lie or a myth borrowed from fiction) from Horus because Horus existed before Jesus. To show how shallow your statement was, I gave you the example of two twins from two different families - you can't say the second family twins are copycats of the first.

But I will hold your feet to the fire. How was Horus born? Was his mother a virgin?

ifeness:
The first virgin birth was that of HORUS. Jesus's story is nothing but a photocopy.

So if your mother had twins and then my best friend mother has twins - I will say my best friends siblings are photocopies of your siblings?

masonkz

Honestly this is all I read. You were the one that brought up the issue of discussing it with your kids. I was surprised and thought you've already started talking to them about sex at 5years of age, that's why I said you might as well tell them the truth about gay. If that's not the case, then no need talking intercourse with them, whether straight or gay.

Aww man, you didn't do any justice to the points I raised. I thought we were having a good discussion

For everyone that doesn't wanna be tolerant to move down to Nigeria or some other non-tolerant country while we, the gay people, and every other tolerant person can move to those countries that are welcoming. That way you don't have to worry about a damn thing

It's not a tolerant issue - you are way off-point. It's discussing why homosexuality is good for us as a people. If I wasn't tolerant; I would advocate violence and hatred toward gays; I have and will never advocate such. If another dude rocks your world; that is your cup of tea.

Be safe and God bless

BrightEye:


My assertion is not scientific. I don't think it requres a proof in that manner, same as God's existence can't be proved scientifically.

Your assertion was that it's true but haven't been proven yet - am I missing something?

masonkz

LOL. Seriously dude? All this one for me? hehe.

We dey discuss now, are we not?

I don't fancy gay pride parades. It's of no use to me and If I was in any of the countries that do it, I wouldn't attend. I guess they're doing it for same reason that people celebrate black history month. Makes no sense to me.

Tell that to your gay brothers in the West.

I mentioned violence cos you said we're trying to make you accept us. And I said it's not just about acceptance. For me, I don't really care about acceptance. I don't put up my sexuality like a billboard for everyone to see (off nairaland of course). What I'd rather want is to be left alone if a straight person finally learns about my sexuality. Go on with your business,, while I go on with mine. I don't care who you're sleeping with as far as it's consensual. Therefore no one should care about mine too.

You must be living in a vacuum Bros. Turn on your TV and watch now others are demonize if they present an opposite view to homosexuality.

You may as well tell your niece the truth. No biggie, except you see it as a problem for you, your niece's parents should move her to Nigeria, where gay parents don't exist. Perfect life . Meanwhile, you just don't know whether your biology teacher is gay or not. You only assume he/she is straight. School curriculum is followed irrespective of the teacher's sexuality, till it's otherwise changed.

What truth exactly? That is is okay for a man to have inter-course with another man? Dude, we don't even teach kids about sexual intercourse at that age and you want me to teach her about gay homosexuality? This is one of the reason why I say homosexuals want us to swallow their behavior.

I'm a product of a heterosexual relationship. So? Did I grow up and decide I wanted to swing the other way? You must understand I'm looking at this from my environmental point of view. I had no influence whatsoever.

You are supporting my stance. Every human being is a product of a heterosexual relationship. So, the question comes, if you decide to have a child or children, what happens?

As for marriage: Again, how does it affect you if someone else decides to marry his/same sex whom must have also agreed to marry that person?? I fail to understand. Is it the definition that is your problem?

The issue is not about me - I am part of a larger society and we all exist together; it is from that view point I am debating this. It's hard for me to summarize this so I will give you the 10,000 feet bird's view.

The question you should ask is this: Why do governments, societies promote marriage between a man and a woman? It's not because two people "love" each other, that is beside the main reason; it's BECAUSE OF THE PERPETUATION AND STABILIZATION OF OUR SOCIETY. This understanding of marriage is ROOTED in the biological facts of nature. When it comes to the behavior of it's citizens; a government can do 3 things:

1. Promote - We promote police work
2. Permit - Most occupations
3. Prohibit - Prohibit drug dealings

The reason is simple, drug dealings harm society. If I was a drug dealer and selling drugs; it's good for business but it harms society as compared to police work that promotes the society. In the same way, my government:

1. Promotes Natural marriage
2. Permit most relationships
3. Prohibits incest pe-dophil.ia

Why? Because Incest and pedo-phili.a harm our community and society. However, the ped-ophil.e disagrees, he thinks it's okay and he is expressing his sexuality but that doesn't change the fact that it harms our society while natural marriage benefits our society. Compared to natural marriage, what benefits does same sex marriage provides to the society?

Natural marriage gives rise to kids and raising those kids to be good citizens. Same-sex marriage validates sex partners. Every child needs a father and a mother as their roles are unique and different. Same sex marriage doesn't offer that.

Every school that promotes same-sex marriage is subjected to homosexual curricula - why should my kids be subjected to homosexuals curricula if their parents are not homosexuals?

My business and my taxes fund same-sex marriages irrespective of my opinion. Numerous cases of people been sued because they declined to support homosexual behavior

My freedom of speech is gagged. I can't express my opinion. So many people have been fired because for their support of natural marriage only. My religious freedom is overruled

There are so many reasons dude and we can go down this rabbit hole. Again, you are free to live and love and be with whom you want just the same way I am free to disagree with your behavior when it affects me and the society

herald9

I'm not doubting his existence... but the circumstances surrounding his birth...

What exactly are you doubting and what alternative explanation you have?

I've you tried to compare this history to the stories of the Bible...do they correlate?

Which history are you referring to exactly?

I only believe in history if it has more than one source and these sources has some elements of similarities..

Do you know how many manuscripts there are from multiple sources regarding the new testament? Even if you destroy all the Bibles in the world today, you can use these multiple manuscripts to reconstruct exactly what you have as the New testament today

Not just some oral tradition passed down from generation to generation... from a foreign tribe which might be tempered from time to time to make sense in an ever changing world.

You have to deal with the history of his birth first; his life before you move on. There are no possibilities - either Jesus is a lie or he is what others claim him to be.

BrightEye:


I find it an indolent behavior to COMPLETELY rely on scientific knowledge, especially on the aspect of mysteries of life, in which each individual human being has the capability to explore through the streaming knowledge of nature that is at his disposal. Science has its own limit, nature doesn't.

When a scientific claim is made then scientific proof is required. You can't make a scientific claim and say it's true but the proof will be discovered in the future - that is called blind faith

beryl04

Homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuâl behaviour. This is not an opinion but a fact.

If it was - every homosexual would have never had a heterosexual relationship or had sex with the opposite sex. And we know that is simple not true. It's like saying I was born a heterosexual and I can not be gay - that statement is simply not true.

Homosexual people are a minority by virtue of circumstances of their birth. No research anywhere proved what you're asserting. The only research that comes close is the one that says there are no genes responsible for homosexuality. this is NOT the same as saying they weren't born that way.

My claim has always been homosexuality is not biological but behavioral. No one is born a thief, a murderer, or a pedophile. Neither is anyone born a musician, an artist, a chemist or general. You learn these things and you decide to subscribe to them. Your statement is equivalent of saying pedophiles are born that way; that is simply not true. Homosexuality is not a medical condition

Rather, it simply means instead of the genes, something else is responsible, such as the hormones, as is now widely believed. The persistence of epigenetic changes in a mother's womb has been touted as the most likely explanation for a child's sexuäl orientation. If you would read about the hormonal theory of sexuality, you would understand this better.

Which hormones exactly are responsible. Are the catholics priest that molest and ra.pe young boys born with more homosexual hormones than other rapist that ra.pe women? Can a man who has been married to his wife over 30 years and have 3 kids suddenly say he prefers men to women be a homosexual hormonal issue? You can find any reason you want to give and it's your choice

Your argument here reminds me of those presented by white supremacists back in the day when they tried to use "scientific research" to "prove" that black people are inferior. Yes, there really was such a time when -- just as you are doing today -- people believed blacks were less human. And they had "science" to justify their belief. And might I add that the people who believed this nonsense were in the MAJORITY?

Haha, any cheap tactic to compare homosexuality with civil rights and racism. Now you sound like a far left liberal homosexual . You seem not to understand my position. Race and behavior have nothing to do with each other. You started off by claiming I was hateful, that didn't work now you are here claiming that people that share different views about homosexual can be compared to racist. Truly pathetic

Just live and let's live.

Who is stopping you from living?

BrightEye:


'Few' years ago, there were no empirical evidences to suggest many truths found today!

Then, until such a time - you can make the claim that people are born gay. Since there is no evidence with the current knowledge and evidence we have; it's mis-leading to claim that people are born homosexual. It's similar to claiming that people are born trans-sexuals or bi-sexuals. These are choices and behaviors that people subscribe to; they have nothing to do with your genes.

herald9

That was sarcasm...

An Experiment is carried out to demonstrate a known truth..
In this case...we don't even know whether these stories are true or not.
The Bible is full of Jewish mythologies...
If you believe in them,you should also believe in our traditional folklore.

I believe in history. History has a way of confirming if an event actually happened or not. If any of our traditional folklore is historically true then yes; I believe in it. Aside from the Bible; history proves that Jesus lived and was crucified. So, except you are saying history is not true

masonkz

1. Dude, if you're scared of your marriage spiralling downwards, do not blame it on gay people. Gay people aren't the cause of the increasing divorce rate.

Totally irrelevant; when did I mention divorce and how did it get into this conversation? The definition of marriage has been between a man and a woman. My contention was that we don't need to change that definition to endorse your sexual behavior. I never said you can't love and live with who you want

2. I actually don't need a heterosexual to give me a baby, assuming I need a baby.

Interesting! I am assuming you are a man; if you are; without a woman in the picture how can you get the baby? If you are a woman, the same question applies. Even if you decide to adopt - you are bringing heterosexuals into the picture. So, please explain. Also, how did you come about; where you a product of a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship?

3. We aren't forcing you to accept. We are telling you to LEAVE US ALONE! It would be totally ok if you see two women/men kissing and just continue doing whatever it is you were doing, rather than picking up stones to stone them because you FEEL they disgust YOU! TF??

Read my post well; you are at liberty to love who you want; that is your cup of tea. I haven't endorsed violence in anyway shape or form against homosexuals. Just don't do 1 million gay march asking for awareness or ask me a wear a T-Shirt to support your life-style. You and I should be able to intelligently talk about it and share our opinions on it.

4. I wasn't exposed to the gay awareness before I realised I was gay. Young people that are exposed to gay couples shouldn't have anything to be afraid of since they are straight. Except you feel that the presence of a gay couple in a straight person's life would turn that person gay, which I'd say is utterly stup.id.

Really! How dumb can you be? What would a gay biology teacher teach my child about sexuality? My 5 year old niece came from school and asked me what does gay mean. Apparently it was parents teacher day coming up at school and kids where to take a letter to their parents and ask them to come to the school. She asked her friend if her mum and dad would be coming and her friend said that she has two dads. My niece was confused and her friend said that her parents were gay. Now, her mother has to explain to her at 5 who homosexuals are and what they do. Why should we expose our children to such atmosphere at such young ages?

In a free society, you don't go on hating people solely because they disgust you/irritate you, despite the fact that their business does not affct you in anyway.

That is the narrative that homosexual try and sell everyone - "straight people hate them". Where in my post have I ever encourage hate or violence against homosexuals?

Yooguyz:


Did you open a new handle just because you wanted to comment on this thread?

What has that got to do with my opinion? Whether I was a member for 10 years or registered a couple of days ago - why can't you respond to my question instead of doing a background check on me

lastmessenger:

Great post. The only thing is that I tell myself is no book has given a vivid explanation as to why evil exist therefore i choose to ignore those thought and move on with my life believing in God who knows all.

The question is similar to asking why does "darkness" exist? Darkness exist because of the absence of Light. Evil exist because of the absence of God. God did not create evil. When you remove God's moral standards: you have a solid framework for evil.

Unluvable:
Is it in any dimension possible that as humans we can stop the whole bickering on our belief and just view the universe.
Using this very consciousness that is bestowed on us.

in my years of being human all I've seen is that whoever or whatever was responsible for this observable universe destroys all that's created. destruction is an important part of creation and critical in recycling.

it goes on and on with no interference. this is what life is all about. you and I find ourselves in the middle of it all, somewhere in history. your questions, your convictions is not going to change anything! it doesn't change that a baby somewhere is born with a defeat or that beautiful mountain is boiling up magma that will erupt leaving a comatose trail or that breathtaking ocean you are in awe of is making up a cyclone.

and this will go on and on till we complete our degenerative cycle putting an end to our consciousness. we'll all go back to how we were before we became aware.

and finally one day, when the earth finally decide to end the cycle. no one will be left to debate on how we got here and why we are here

That doesn't answer the question the OP posted

herald9:
She was untouched...thereby proofing to be a perfect apparatus for God's experiment

By 'untouched' - I imply you are referring to not having had sexual intercourse. Are you implying Jesus Birth was an experiment?

frank317:


Tell him to cover his head in shame, he created a fucccccked up world, yet he claims to be all knowing, all powerful and all loving.
I will strip him off all the title because he deserves none. Don't worry, panel of gods will judge him for this mess he calls perfect earth.

What exactly is f**cked up about what God created?

What is the OP stand on this subject?

Weah96:


People who take Ayahuasca, peyote, and Amanita mushroom report witnessing similar visions. These are all scheduled ONE substances in the US.

Are you willing to admit that your writer may have consumed or ingested psychedelic substances?

It's evident you are one of them that take the mentioned mush-rooms

Nothing really, only that Mary was a virgin. Mary was a sinner like everyone of us. The special case here is that she was chosen to be the vessel of God

BrightEye:
If a man is born with homosexuality, he should try to overcome it.

Just like when a man is born deformed, and tries to live just as the common man does.

There is no empirical evidence to suggest people are born as homosexuals. If you say gay people have the disposition or proclivity to the same sex; then that makes sense.

masonkz:


How, exactly, is that your business??

Simple:

1. The encouragement of homosexual behavior does damage to the institution of marriage between a mother and a father
2. Homosexuality stipends the very existence of human culture i.e. a man and a man can't reproduce neither can a woman and woman reproduce. If they were born homosexuals, why do 90 percent of homosexuals have children from heterosexuals?
3. Homosexuality forces heterosexual to accept their sexuality i.e. If you are gay, that is your cup of tea. Don't ask me to accept it or suggest that the definition of marriage should be changed to encourage your sexual behavior
4. Young kids and children will be exposed to homosexual awareness and as such believe it is normal

I can go on and on. In a free society; homosexuals can choose to love who they want to; that is their choice. Also, in a free society; there is freedom of speech and diversity of opinions.

These are the facts, no one is born a homosexual neither is anyone born a painter or a thief.

Canadiangirl:


what make it the truth?
how do u know their is no homosexuality in animals. I once saw a picture of kangaroos in Australia having orgy and sodomy
pls leave gay people alone. why are u people loosing sleep over their sexuality.

In what animal race do you see the male leave the female and mates with other males and stay with other males or vice-versa? I am talking about actual trends