you finished your class assignment, already?

i am a yoruba. thats my ethnicity.

i am not worshiping shango, a diety of the yorubas

I am worshiping Allah, God of all. those who worship Allah are muslims. They could be any ethnicity.

some igbo like ifyalways. some yoruba like me. some hausa like abdulSalaam. some jews like cohen.

some bani Israil muslims; prophet Jesus, Moses, etc.

now tell me how they are jews in religion? we already know about their ethnicity.

@Logicboy03: i am waiting to read your posts. you said i should open a post to see you prove that Jesus was not a muslim. You have been docking as if the wharf is the only place for you.

by onetrack: 9:04am

From the Quran; This Quran is from your Lord. From the Quran: Oh Muhammad [sa], we have sent you as a mercy to mankind [not to the arabs. but all mankind]. your assignment is to google the out the verses.


This is not proof of anything. I can write a book and include the sentence that it is the word of God. That would be the proof that my book is the word of God.

God knows who His Messenger with His Book is. You are not. The jews says Jesus was not. God knows Jesus is. You, the jews and your christian brethren say Muhammad [sa] is not. God knows he is. You can write what you will and say its from God. Many have. Jeremiah let us know that the jews of his days changed the torah. The same changed torah in your bibles, today. you call it word of God, erroneously, so. What is completely from God fulfilling what is authentic in the books before it, you now deny it and the prophet who corrects and sets matters aright.

the Quran after they have left. it is absurd the way you are thinking. however Abraham did not believe in the torah of Moses because he was already left before it was revealed. If Abraham were to have been alive, he would have believed it. Same is Moses to Injil of Jesus not what John, Mark, Luke and Matthew penned. Jesus would have believed the Quran if he were alive.


Abraham was not a Jew in a religious sense, because he did not follow the Torah, rather a monotheist only. Moses was not a Christian, he did not have the Gospel; Jesus was not a Muslim, he did not have the Quran. Very logical.

the father of faith is Abraham. we must expect that his faith is the right faith from God. since he was not a jew, he was not a christian, too. then no prophet is a jew or chrstian. the only Abrahamaic religion standing is Islam. and thats the logical evidence, even from your own write up here that Jesus was a muslim. logically so.

You cannot say that "Jesus would have believed the Quran if he were alive". This is speculation and not evidence of anything. I can turn around and say that Muhammad would have believed "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins if he were alive today, and that he would have become an atheist. grin

a prophet who preached the existence of God would not believe in "the God delusion, by richard dawkins". however a prophet believes in the prophet that succeeds him. just in the same way that the one after him believed him as a previous prophet of God. Jesus would have followed Muhammad just the same way Moses would have followed Jesus.

You are left with two choices, neither of them good:
1) If you say that Jesus and Moses were Muslims because they submitted to God, then ANYONE who claims that they are submitting to God is a Muslim, even if they reject the Quran and believes that it is fake. In other words, Muslims do not have to accept the Quran or Muhammad.

but it is in this Quran you will find the complete Islam. and it is in the time of this prophet [Muhammad [sa]] that Islam is completed. are you not spiting your face because you dislike your nose? you can't use Quran to argue against belief in God, because the complete and final format of belief in God is in it. and not in any book, being the last revelation of God.

2) If you say that a Muslim is one who accepts Muhammad as a prophet and the Quran is the word of God, then Jesus and Moses were by definition not Muslims because they did not accept Muhammad.

the only way you could have won this argument is if Jesus had said there is no one to come after him. but he said expect the comforter, the prophet who was neither Jesus the christ nor John who was Elijah, according to biblical Jesus. The idea is that if Abraham were to be alive when Moses was preaching, he would have supported him against pharaoh. Moses would have supported Jesus against the lost sheep of the house of israel and Jesus would have supported Muhammad against disbeief.

by frosbel(m): 11:50am

F00028:

matter of fact that's all you do.

God, in the Quran, tells man to think, ponder, reflect, investigate, even ask those with knowledge of things one needs not know.

christians, on the other hand started rejecting the biblical god once they started to think. that's how all logicboy's heroes were born.


hahaha, does he really.

What a joke, I hardly have met a true muslim who thinks, instead be blindly chants the Quran 24/7 and follows what he knows not , complete in Arabic, hoping that he will escape hell.

and those muslims chanted their way to the top, leaving you in the dust below in school and at your job. I am certain that is the fact. there is a muslim who is your boss at work right now.

Actually let us revisit your hell as per below.


Hawai: Hypocrites, Pharaoh and his associates. This is the lowest level of Hell.
Jahim: Above Hawai, also for polytheists.
Saqar: Above Jahim, for Saibeen, a sect having no religion.
Nati: Above Saqar, for Iblis and his associates.
Hatma: Above Nati, for Jewish religion.
Sa’ah: This is for Christians.
Jahannam: Uppermost level, which is meant for general Muslim sinners.

Sinners are the fuel for the fire of Jahannam[9] along with disbelieving Jinns [10] and stones.[11] The fire burns their skins, changing their colour to black due to its intensity. Jahannam has a shadow of smoke ascending in three columns, which yields no shade of coolness against the fierce blaze. Its sparks are described to be as "huge as a palace."[12] Jahannam is described to have nineteen angels, who will punish wrongdoers. The leader of these angels, as stated in the Quran, is Maalik. Hell is perceived to be so deep that if a stone were thrown into it, it would fall for 70 years before reaching the bottom. The breadth of each of Hell's walls are equivalent to a distance covered by a walking journey of 40 years. According to Prophet Muhammad he is an angel, very severe and harsh, and he will listen to the request of dwellers of hell after 1000 years and that will also be in negative.

The food of Jahannam described in Hadith and the Quran includes a bitter thorn plant, Dhari, which does not nourish sinners, along with a tree named Zaqqum. Zaqqum is described in the Quran as a tree that springs out of the bottom of hellfire; the shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the "heads of devils" and eating it is similar to eating molten brass that will boil their insides "like scalding water". Sinners drink boiling water that will cut their bowels when they consume it. If they call for relief, they shall be given water described to be like molten brass, which will scald their faces. Hell is also filled with venomous donkeys and if they were to bite a person, the person would suffer for 40 years. The residents of Jahannam wear garments of fire that will scorch them.[13] Along with the physical pain, certain sinners in hell will be mentally tortured by the guardian of hell, who will remind them of their misdeeds on earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam


what a sick and twisted doctrine.

it seems as if you have agreement from God about the Day of Judgment? you do not believe there is hell. i have read a few of your post of thinking there is no reward for evil.

by manmacho: 2:05pm

manmacho: IF JESUS WAS A MUSLIM WHAT IS THE RELIGION OF THE JEW THEN AND NOW WHO BELEIVE IN ONE GOD undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided undecidedhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuh??/


WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU GOING TO SAY ABOUT THIS

judaism is a religion made up by men and was not what was revealed to any prophet [as]. no prophet worshiped God by it, just like no prophet worshiped God by christianity. jew is an ethnic group. and they developed religious identity of their own based on their heritage.

God said to Moses make prayer of standing, bowing and prostration of face in My remembrance. Jesus demonstrated this prayer was relevant in his time and it is relevant now because Muhammmad [sa] the prophet of our time was commanded to do the same and tell believers to do it.

Hindus believe in One God. yet they worship through many gods. same way the children of Israel by thie golden calf. unless you will say the golden calf is their yahweh? your choice, mehn.

@logicboy03: i am waiting for you while the others are not my concern. your post is what i need to respond to, empty suit you are right now that you are docking.

i am still waiting for logicboy03 to provide conclusive evidence for his statement that Jesus is not a muslim by providing that he is something else.

by frosbel(m): 10:43pm

We don't care what the Quran says, Jesus was not a Muslim , Period !!

neither was he a christian. and he never talked to the wall. so he was not a jew in religion. we know he prostrated his face on the ground, worshiping. thats Islam. you can cry if you want. the fact is the fact. a muslim is one submit to God. And Jesus did that.

Leave our prophets, messiah and bible alone.

show me a single christian prophet and provide evidence of his being a christian.

Copy cats cheesy

?

by onetrack: 10:51pm

Give proof that God 'owns' the Quran and that he presented it to the world.

From the Quran; This Quran is from your Lord. From the Quran: Oh Muhammad [sa], we have sent you as a mercy to mankind [not to the arabs. but all mankind]. your assignment is to google the out the verses.

by onetrack: 10:53pm

Jesus and Moses did not believe in the Quran. So they are disqualified from being Muslims, by your own logic.

the Quran after they have left. it is absurd the way you are thinking. however Abraham did not believe in the torah of Moses because he was already left before it was revealed. If Abraham were to have been alive, he would have believed it. Same is Moses to Injil of Jesus not what John, Mark, Luke and Matthew penned. Jesus would have believed the Quran if he were alive.

Checkmate.

you just lost your queen.

by onetrack: 11:05pm

Orthodox Jews do a ritual immersion, called a mikvah, for converts to Judaism and in a few other rare rituals.

was Jesus a revert? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikveh which one of these reasons below did Jesus have a mikvah?

Its main uses nowadays are:

by Jewish women to achieve ritual purity after menstruation or childbirth;
by Jewish men to achieve ritual purity (see details below)
as part of a traditional procedure for conversion to Judaism;
for utensils used for food.

I am in West Africa but not Nigeria. Very few Jews here, mostly Muslims, a few Christians, and virtually no atheists cry

sorry. dont cry. mikvah is similar to islamic ghussul.

by Reyginus(m): 11:07pm
What all these I'm seeing. Sweetneckta, before anything, I would like to know the tenets of islam. Help me with that please.

That God is One Lord and all true prophets [Adam all the way to Jesus [as]] and Muhammad [sa] is the last Messenger. That one prays salah in remembrance of Go, at appointed time, daily. that one gives charity. that one fast. that one make pilgrimage.

that one Belief in God, His Angels, His Books, His Prophets. That One accepts that God creates everything and give them their proportions. That all goods and what happens is by will of God. That all decisions are by Him. And there is Paradise and Hell. And there is a Day of Judgment.

Quran is not after the fact because God is The Fact Owner and He has presented the Quran to the world as the fact library. If the Quran is presented in 60000 trillion years it will not make any difference.

^^^ you cant be a muslim, a term that is completely and fully defined by and in the Quran and at the same time disbelieve in the same Quran that you will use to indicate that you are a muslim. you will going against the road that you are wholeheartedly planting your feet on.

is there any jew that practices baptism?

i dont know where onetrack is located. but logicboy03, there is no excuse for you to not ask a jew in london if they practice baptism.


maybe barmitva, the right of coming of age at 13. but no immersing in water. none.

from the bible Jesus yielded all his will to God. from this biblical verse, we know that he is also a muslim.

The Quran says Jesus is a muslim. A messenger of God to the children of Israel and an announcer of a prophet to come whose name is Ahmad.

@Onetrack and logicboy03: What makes up the religion known as judaism? How is Jesus one? How is Jesus not an orthodox jew in religion? what makes up the brand of judaism that you said Jesus practiced?

when you people make statements, you need to give evidence[s]. I know alot of jews; the many branches of orthodoxy and even the liberal to the ultra reform.

I dont see Jesus being any of them because their prophetic office stopped at Moses and it does not include Jesus.

Moses did not worship like any orthodox. neither did Jesus worship like any orthodox or any other.

Both believed in 1 God without a real son, not begotten son. Both submitted their wills completely to God. Both stood, bowed and prostrated himself to God. Both depended on God and neither is able to do anything except what ordered him.

@logicboy03: you have your work cut out for you with the bold.

by Logicboy03(m): 10:12pm On Jan 06

Sweetnecta: ne. However the religion of Islam is the religion of Adam and all believers.

The burden of proof is upon the accuser, you. I am waiting for your evidence and you will not have any because not only that you post is an epic fail. but you are an empty suit. I want you to respond. mehn.



Open a thread and we will discuss

the floor is yours. please provide direct evidence that Jesus is not a muslim. provide the name of his religion. we already know that Jesus is from the children of Israel. ethnicity is different from religion.

i am awaiting your epic fail response. i know it will be empty rhetoric.

double post

by Sweetnecta: 7:05pm On Jan 05
I easily could have approached your issue about God not coming out of nothing with a question about the source of gentle breeze or wind that you feel. I will leave this and others for your mind to ponder. Per chance it may dawn on you. The Ultimate Source does not have to have a source but Himself is the Source of all. It is not necessary that He is of the same nature of what He is the Source of, regardless of how He varied them into many.


by Logicboy03(m): 10:15pm On Jan 04
12) A problem of borrowed prophets in Islam

Christians and Jews believe that Jesus was a religious Jew. However, muslims believe that Jesus was a muslim. Now these two beliefs are contradictory, and at best, only one can be true.

Why Jesus can't be a muslim;

-Jesus was born into a Jewish community (ethnicity)
-Jesus quoted Jewish scriptures
-Jesus talked about the Jewish God.
-Jesus debated Jewish scholars.
-Jesus didnt live by Quranic laws. He turned water into wine for a party.

I am a muslim. Thats is my religion. My ethnicity is different. What makes me a muslim are sets of ordained laws and rules and duties.

What will make a person a jew in terms of his religion is not because he is an ethnic jew. Religion is completely different from ethnicity. What i will like to know from this op is how is Jesus a jew in his religion? Tell me what the jewish religion entails in worship, etc and fit that on Jesus. Tell me if you can, even though you are not arguing that Jesus is a Christian, if anyone is following Jesus in matters of religion, should they not imitate how Jesus worshiped; standing, bowing prostrating, in prescribed hours during the day and in some part of the night?

Neither Moses [or any prophet] nor Jesus was Jew or Christian in religion. They were all muslims as they stood, bowed and prostrated in worship of God. We muslims do this today, tomorrow and forever, till the last muslim on earth will die.

you accused the muslims with the bold. i changed yoou to provide proofs with the segments that sandwiched it. you chickened out with the below bold. how is that sincere effort?

by Logicboy03(m): 9:33pm On Jan 05

Sweetnecta: I easily could have approached your issue about God not coming out of nothing with a question about the source of gentle breeze or wind that you feel. I will leave this and others for your mind to ponder. Per chance it may dawn on you. The Ultimate Source does not have to have a source but Himself is the Source of all. It is not necessary that He is of the same nature of what He is the Source of, regardless of how He varied them into many.


I am a muslim. Thats is my religion. My ethnicity is different. What makes me a muslim are sets of ordained laws and rules and duties.

What will make a person a jew in terms of his religion is not because he is an ethnic jew. Religion is completely different from ethnicity. What i will like to know from this op is how is Jesus a jew in his religion? Tell me what the jewish religion entails in worship, etc and fit that on Jesus. Tell me if you can, even though you are not arguing that Jesus is a Christian, if anyone is following Jesus in matters of religion, should they not imitate how Jesus worshiped; standing, bowing prostrating, in prescribed hours during the day and in some part of the night?

Neither Moses [or any prophet] nor Jesus was Jew or Christian in religion. They were all muslims as they stood, bowed and prostrated in worship of God. We muslims do this today, tomorrow and forever, till the last muslim on earth will die.



Epic fail. I dont even know where to start!

how is your poor effort in bold on this line a response to me? what makes Jesus a muslim are his believe in One God, not in Trinity. Also he made night salah at the gashemane in addition to many times he made the same prayers during the day at prescribed times. he fasted, gave charity and received gifts, not charity because prophets do not consume charity.

every prophet of God, starting from Adam to Jesus and then to Muhammad [sa] were muslims for their God is One and their religion must be one, the very religion commanded by God. God did not command judaism or christianity as religion. there is no revelation for judaism or christinity. These groups erroneously claimed revelations for themselves.


Now show me a single evidence that Jesus was not a muslim and you can use the evidence of anything that is the core duties of judaism or christianity to shame me and islam here.

did Jesus talked to the wailing wall as the jews do or go to clapping and singing as the christians?

can the religion of Jesus be different from the religion of the father of faith, Abraham who was neither a jew nor christian? Note that these two religions came after Abraham was long gone. However the religion of Islam is the religion of Adam and all believers.

The burden of proof is upon the accuser, you. I am waiting for your evidence and you will not have any because not only that you post is an epic fail. but you are an empty suit. I want you to respond. mehn.

I easily could have approached your issue about God not coming out of nothing with a question about the source of gentle breeze or wind that you feel. I will leave this and others for your mind to ponder. Per chance it may dawn on you. The Ultimate Source does not have to have a source but Himself is the Source of all. It is not necessary that He is of the same nature of what He is the Source of, regardless of how He varied them into many.

by Logicboy03(m): 10:15pm On Jan 04
12) A problem of borrowed prophets in Islam

Christians and Jews believe that Jesus was a religious Jew. However, muslims believe that Jesus was a muslim. Now these two beliefs are contradictory, and at best, only one can be true.

Why Jesus can't be a muslim;

-Jesus was born into a Jewish community (ethnicity)
-Jesus quoted Jewish scriptures
-Jesus talked about the Jewish God.
-Jesus debated Jewish scholars.
-Jesus didnt live by Quranic laws. He turned water into wine for a party.

I am a muslim. Thats is my religion. My ethnicity is different. What makes me a muslim are sets of ordained laws and rules and duties.

What will make a person a jew in terms of his religion is not because he is an ethnic jew. Religion is completely different from ethnicity. What i will like to know from this op is how is Jesus a jew in his religion? Tell me what the jewish religion entails in worship, etc and fit that on Jesus. Tell me if you can, even though you are not arguing that Jesus is a Christian, if anyone is following Jesus in matters of religion, should they not imitate how Jesus worshiped; standing, bowing prostrating, in prescribed hours during the day and in some part of the night?

Neither Moses [or any prophet] nor Jesus was Jew or Christian in religion. They were all muslims as they stood, bowed and prostrated in worship of God. We muslims do this today, tomorrow and forever, till the last muslim on earth will die.

@Op:

by pastormustwacc: 10:15pm On Jan 02
Memory Verse:
(Jesus prayed) “I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” (John 17:4,5)


John 6:38-40

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


The first verse suggests that Jesus came down from Heaven. This seems to contradict the belief that he first existed as a man when he was born into this world. For if Jesus was first conceived through Mary and had no pre-existance, how could he come down from Heaven. We (Man) come into existence when we are born into this world, but would it be correct to say that we came down from Heaven? If a verse said that we came down from Heaven, would you think that we pre-existed in Heaven?

what i know about God is that He does not beg. He is direct in His Authority and Lordship over all. God was known on earth long before Jesus. Adam knew God. So was Eve. All righteous people knew The Glory of God. Even the evil people new Glory of God when the punishment descended upon them. All men before the world [our presence on this earth] knew the Glory of God, because testified, spiritually as human souls, individually in assembly of men that God is our Lord and all worship is due Him as he commands. Every prophet had glory with God before they became humans on earth to carry out their individual prophetic duties.

John 1:15
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is physically impossible for Christ to be before him. Surely this verse shows preexistence, at least before John the Baptist.

i wish you can apply this very concept and process to the comforter that Jesus predicted to come in the future of his prophesy? Is that comforter an entity with ability to hear [command] and repeat [obey], without adding his own or deliver it in his own wording? a man asked which group is the plague of curse from Paul upon; the people with 66 books or the people with 73 books in their bible? or both and even the orthodox?

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

&

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

These 2 verses you just read blatantly say that he is before all things.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


So there is nothing that was made that didn't involve Jesus/The Word being there. This verse alone answers your question because the universe, angels and men were made and Jesus was present when they were created.

i asked a friend the other day why neither Jesus nor the holy ghost did not utter a single word to show that they existed as God decided openly that man is about to be created? I bet there were other creations existed before man. Angels, for example. My friend had no answer. But what is very clear is that we can read all kinda meaning to the verse above to justify our position. One thing we cant do is to say that Jesus said that very verse about himself, especially when we see that it seems to me an to everyone who is sincerely objective that Jesus said he of his own power can do nothing. If Jesus can do nothing on earth and we did not hear his voice in heaven prior to and even after man had been created, until he was delivered like every living baby, how can we say Jesus was part of the creative process, and be bold enough to say he was The Creator?

John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

i am assuming that the person who is credited for writing this verse did not know what all of us were in existence before we were created in the physical.

1: God already conceived us in His creative Knowledge because it is part of His Quality as the Creator. He decrees a thing, He but says to it "Be". so the process of the thing to exist begins to completion.

2: God created soul of man and the body of the man [Adam]. when God decreed Adam to become man, God infused the soul into the lifeless form and Adam began to come alive to the living man creature.

3; from the body of Adam, all the children of Adam were taking and in an assembly were made to confirm that God is the Creator and worthy of worship. If you notice what Jesus said, he limited his preexistence to Abraham. I am also in existence before Abraham was here on earth. But neither Jesus nor me was in existence before Adam, the father of all. The argument that Jesus was in preexistence before Abraham is not a good argument because Adam was before all man.

by davidylan(m): 12:29am

maclatunji:

There are other people in the Qur'an that either predate the Jews or weren't Jews at all. You are too lazy to acknowledge them.


not really dude. You're new here so you obviously dont know... that issue has been thrashed here so many times there is no point rehashing it. What is most apparent when you look in the quran is the fact that all those mentioned in the quran who were NOT significantly talked about in jewish history are barely mentioned by name once or twice in the quran and VERY LITTLE information is provided for them. those with significant stories in the quran are all present in the jewish torah!

there are chapters chapters named after Hud, a prophet not mentioned in the bible. There are other prophets like Salih and Shuaib not mentioned in the bible, but you can find a whole about their lives and times and their messages to their people in the Quran. Luqman has a chapter named after him. what this christian poster is saying about the Quran relative to the Bible is incorrect. the stories that Quran have in common with the Bible are merely in names of the personalities, while the story lines and details are quite different.

For example... there are numerous stories of Abraham, solomon, david and co in the quran... they all just happen to be the EXACT SAME stories found in the bible!

same names, the details are completely different. in the Quran father Ibrahim [sa] was not an adulterer, the exact opposite of what the bible is saying about him relative to Hagar. Ibrahim attempted to slaughter his cooperate and patient son, Ismail while the bible is saying that in spite of the iron lady hold that sarah had over Abraham, he was able to get Isaac out, while lying all the way to the slaughter place to the lad. solomon of the bible is an idolater, while Sulaiman of the Quran is honored and truly a prophet of God. David of the bible was a killer and womanizer, while God made the Dawd a man that animals and even mountains joined him in praising God and the iron is made soft in his hand so that he was able to fashion from it even weapons and through it his livelihood. Nothing the Bible has that Quran copied. God told the stories so that where the bible gets each wrong, the accurate information can be found in the Quran as what corrects the lies already held as truth.

When it comes to others not in the bible... there is VIRTUALLY NOTHING on them. For example, who are the Jurhums?

what spiritual benefit is there in a story of a nation, tribe, people? quraish is the only makkan or arab tribe mentioned in the Quran. is this the only tribe in Makka of Muhammad [sa]? How about any arab or jewish tribe in Madina? anyone who knows about the children of Israel will tell you the tribe of judah [jewish] is just one of the 12 nations. i guess the 12 nations were the "world" of Jesus. Fortunately, Quran did not mention any of the 12 tribes/nations. but spoke about noteworthy family [imran of Mary mother of Jesus], prophets from the children of Jacob.

Did Quran talk about the tribe of benjamin or any other of the 12? and when yahudi [jew] is used, it is similar to when the jews say gentile but not as degrading when they say goyim [animals]; the term they use to describe non jews.

by davidylan(m): 10:38pm

maclatunji:

God's message to mankind is Universal. The stories of these Prophets have resonance across all races- worship one God and follow his rules, this world and the next will be a better place for you.


sigh. we've been through this hubris time and time again. It appears islam was only interested in jewish prophets. You dont seem prophets from buddhists, sikhs etc in the quran... didnt they all preach one God too?

name your 'jewish prophets' and show us your evidence that they are jewish in their religion. i think you do not know what is the core of judaism. did anyone of your 'jewish prophets' pray to the wall, with a kappi on his head [the praying jews of 2012], etc?

What we have is the Unclad attempt to dishonestly attach allah to the jewish culture and religion... God's message is universal YET he seemed (at least from the islamic perspective) to be solely interested in jews only? Odd.

some people are drunk without consuming any alcohol. the story of man is what you will find in the Quran. bani israil is different from yahud [jew]. no prophet or believer from the loin of Prophet Jacob [as] is called yahud.

Quran contains stories of prophets Hud, Salih and Shuib [as] and i dont know if the bible recognizes any of them. you can read about them in many chapters [Hud, The prophets and other chapters]. Yet, the Quran has a chapter about Luqman, who the bible has nothing about. While to the ignorant mind the Bible only talk about the jews, the word jew or judaism, jewish cant include Joseph because Judah was one of his brothers or their father , Jacob or their grandfather isaac, or his older brother Ishmael who am sure no christian or jew will say he is jewish, or their father Ibrahim [as] or his nephew Lot or the king of salem genrations before [Noah, Enoch, etc, etc, etc, . . . Adam [as]]. Yet the story of man includes all of these noble people and righteous people. the story of man includes the story of tyrannical pharaoh of Moses. and ruler/azziz of the time of Joseph. The first idols worshiped by man were named in surah Noah and the bible has no clue of when paganism entered the life of man. we know that the children of israel have no regards for faith. its not by word of mouth but to claim true faith, you have to act upon it.

@Frosbel: all you had to verify was revolutnis statement about Quran, Muhammad [sa] and his companion [ra] before my responses to know if "we" are discussing Islam here.

I know old prejudice is a thing that does not fade away so easily.

who were muslims before Muhammad [sa]?

Many. Adam [as] and his wife and his righteous son and the one who repented and the other children who were in obedience.
Then believers in every generation.

Who were not muslims? those who rejected faith; example; the people who perished in the flood of Noah [as], then pharaoh and those who followed him in the flood that drowned them in the sea. we see the body of that pharaoh, today on display exactly as Quran says it will be as a witness to the end of a tyrant, while the bible that revolutnis said was copied is silent about this very important detail.

Did Moses have a different religion that what the father of faith, Ibrahim [as] had? Since the Quran says Ibrahim was not a jew or a christian, we can say that Moses if he was a believer, which he was practice the same religion as Ibrahim. Jesus son of Mary didnt have a different religion, either. he never prayed to the wall and obviously he prostrated himself and obeyed the commandments of God Who sent him, while he was not a christian.


Allah is my Lord and has allowed these discoveries to validate islam as the true religion. we see that the palestinian muslims were not the idolaters, but the jews were.


Mclatunji by his reference to Queen Sheba has proven that Solomon [as] did not worship any idol of any wife. Instead his firmness and resolve in belief helped in bringing this powerful woman to faith. If a man is going to fall for a pattern of any woman, he will not fall for the pattern of a poor woman while he is able to bring a beautiful and powerful woman to his fold. simply put, none of the wives of King Solomon [as] the wise, got him away from his faith in 1 God. it is not befitting a prophet of God that he becomes a pagan. when i say prophet of God, know that the last one of them left this earth about 1,400 years ago.

so please dont even think your guy adegboye and other are prophets.

@revolutnis: while you speak falsely against islam, below is an experience of a german man about Islam:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttvzPVI9thg

Solomon is the wisest man in the Bible. his decisions on issues of controversy even today no man can make better ones. I wonder if Solomon is not in the same league as prophet like other bible prophets? Do prophets or beloved of Yahweh end up and die worshiping idols? impossible.

if Yahweh is a Name of the true God, it is expected that The True God will correct His elect when he errs. He will not allow him to die on error. Will Solomon end up in hell? If not, then he was not an idolater. There is no other offense the christians can rope him in.

Definitely, his many relationship with women are not a sign of sinfulness, just like being a confirmed bachelor is not, too.


If a person does not end up in hell of the christians, there is only other place he can be admitted; Paradise. Being in paradise is a clear sign that God loves the individual that his shortcomings are wiped off, forgotten and not put into account.

There we have it today that ordinary man can communicate with animals. how impossible will it be for the elect of God, prophet Solomon to be given a special honor of being able to understand the languages of animals so much so that he was able to communicate with them? I think those who think little of God can not understand this is easy for God to achieve.

@Revolutnis:

by REVOLUTNIS: 1:38pm

anonimi:

Did you read where Apostle Paul said to the Greeks in Athens that he saw their altar to THE UNKNOWN GOD and it is that God that he has come to preach to them huh
That CONCEPT of the unknown God is common to almost all groups of people/ societies/communities.
The main difference is that the Jews and later on the Muslims believe in only that one unknown God (i.e. MONOtheism) unlike the other societies that believe in other "lesser" known gods in addition to the one unknown God (i.e. POLYtheism).
You need to read your bible more often along with other historical books.

u should have started the place in the Bible Paul made that statement.

Paul the chronic liar who passed his opinion up as revelation? are you for real, mehn?

Jehovah God is not UNKNOWN God to those who believe in Him. He is an UNKNOWN God to sinners and all who have not given their lives to Jesus Christ His precious Son.

i see that you do not believe one can have direct connection to God. which is singly essential for salvation; believe in God by adhering to His Commandments from the beginning of time or simply giving your life to Jesus [what form does this giving your life?]?

He mad Himself known to Abraham and to many men and women of the old who saved and Obeyed Him.

God was already known, long time before Abraham [as]. Definitely Adam [as] must have known that God existed.

He stated His name to Moses b4 sending him to Pharaoh in Egypt and later allow him to see His glory.

Before Moses [as], The Name of God was known to many; Adam, Noah, etc [as] knew it not as "I AM", but in their native tongue. in the native tongue of Adam, it is Allah. in the native tongue of Jesus, it is Ellah which you people intentionally say is Eli. did you notice that Jesus never said the Name of God is "I AM, Yahweh, Jehovah"?

Paul never had the privilege of being one of Jesus' inner circle servants, but He revealed Himself to Paul on his way to Damascus.

it will be silly if i started writing to you with knowing its you by your name, above. Paul didn't wait for the devil he said appeared to him before he said "is it you lord". do you think the deceiver, satan will say to him, no, its me satan, when his intention was to deceive and change the course of the prophetic legacy of Jesus? Paul ran with satan and elevated Jesus to more than a prophet, and there was the birth of your ideology; chritianity.

the other word for UNKNOWN God is strange god Elohim is not a strange God.

now He is Elohim. not I AM of Moses. not Eli of Jesus. not even Jehovah of Paul. i see how honest you are.

He reveals Himself to those who diligently seek and obey Him.

how are obeying the One God Who you not only make up a son for Him, but the same son is He and His partner? How can one be three, a bachelor be married?

Anyone who is not SAVED by the washing of the Blood of Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God is worshiping a strange god. there are so many strange gods in the world today enslaving the souls of men and women. We should not allow the books of history written by men to deceive us.

one will expect a person such as yourself, who considers himself not a sinner, to not lie because sin is actually a lie or intentionally ignoring the truth.

if you are not a sinner, then you will have to answer the following questions, below:

by REVOLUTNIS: 1:08pm

inurmind:

Judaism is the foundation of Christianity. Their holy book is your old testament. Do not try to separate yourself from them.

[b]Both Judaism and Christianity are the foundations of Islam.[/b]what evidence do you have since God Almighty did not reveal neither Judaism nor Christianity as religion for man to follow? My evidence so that you can argue logically against it is that Moses did not start any religion called Judaism because what the jews do today in their worships [the biggest is praying to a wall and stuffing its cracks with more prayers and or prayer request. The word jew judaism was not used in the time of Moses, who the jews say they follow. And Jesus never performed any jewish or christian prayer rituals. Both Moses and Jesus and prophets between and before them [as] practiced prayer procedures neither of the jews nor that of the christians, but in almost all forms that of the muslims. the prophets and believers with them in their lifetimes stand to worship in prayer [normal when you stop to begin prayers], bow [a position that is between standing and going to prostration] and prostrate the face. every prophet [as] fasted in a particular month and practice constant fasting. every prophet [as] gave charity. every prophet [as] struggled against evil and injustice.



[quote]Muhammad instructed Ali to copy mostly the Bible old testament and path of New testament to make up of his deluded Koran.

while Ali [ra] is not the only scribes [ra], how is it possible that Muhammad [sa], an illiterate was able to instruct that only the best from the part you said he copied be retained, while adding more accurate and true facts and eliminating the filth, evil, false and inaccurate parts? could it be that he did not ask anyone to copy, but receive the correct information, directly from God, while the accounts in the bibles are already compromised?

when u read Koran u will be amaze to discover some of the Bible stories in it where did they come from and how come they are there?

while the bible has some common stories with the Quran, it however does not mean that the Quran borrowed any from the bible. if it has been so, the Quran could not a better source material in matters of the common stories. the reason is that you can not improve on perfection. but when we read the stories in the Quran, we realize that there is definitely improvement. the reason is that the improvement points to Muhammad [sa] hearing from God the Original Source, directly and preserving it in its purity. The biblical accounts are not pure any longer because there are so many versions of the same story. fortunately, Quran has many stories that the bible does not have. In all, the story is the story of man, not jewish, not christianity, not islam, not hindu, etc. but story of man. There is only one accurate Book on it. It must come from God, Alone to A True prophet [sa]. Inspiring liars like Paul who passed his opinion as revelation will not stand up to test.

by REVOLUTNIS: 1:38pm

anonimi:

Did you read where Apostle Paul said to the Greeks in Athens that he saw their altar to THE UNKNOWN GOD and it is that God that he has come to preach to them huh
That CONCEPT of the unknown God is common to almost all groups of people/ societies/communities.
The main difference is that the Jews and later on the Muslims believe in only that one unknown God (i.e. MONOtheism) unlike the other societies that believe in other "lesser" known gods in addition to the one unknown God (i.e. POLYtheism).
You need to read your bible more often along with other historical books.

initially, i had no intention of posting except to read and thank God Almighty that Islam is being vindicated, not by muslims, but by information from others. at least now we will agree that the islam of Muhammad [sa] which is just over 1,400 years is not a worshiper of moon god as the christian apologists are proposing in their efforts to rubbish islam. while i will say that Prophet King Solomon [as] is not an idolater, i could not say the same for the stiff necked jews who made a golden calf {yahweh] as soon as they left Egypt.

@pointblank 123:

by pointblank 123: 2:00pm
Shakir 96:1-4

''Read in the name of your Lord Who created.

He created man from clot.

Read and your Lord is Most Honourable,

Who taught (to write) with pen''.

The above command or rather revelation was given to Muhammad by angel Gabriel (Jubril).

It was all about ''reading'' and ''writing''. We write with pen and read what is written with pen. By no means can this be interpreted as recitation.

This brings to open display the lies of those who said Muhammad was not commanded to read but recite. It also shows in plain terms the lies of Gabriel and his sender who command Muhammad to read when nothing was available to be read.

I have some questions for the muslims:

1. Why was the Qur'an arranged up-side-down? The first revelation which is supposed to be in chapter 1 was written at almost the end of the Book - chapter 96?

first, the Quran is unlike any book of religion. it is not a once upon a time storyteller. all of its words is from Allah. and the word Iqra has many meaning based on its contextual usage. a reciter of Quran is called Qari, a derivative of IQRA. a recited part/portion is Qirat. Iqra can also mean proclaim. So Iqra is not just read, always. But it is also recite, proclaim.

and as to the verses not being in order of revelation is an attestation to the miracle of the book. before it was a book, it was named a book based on chapter 2 verse 2.In spite of the arrangements, each word, verse, chapter, flows perfectly to the other that you could not have had a better arrangement. every chapter flows from the chapter before it and flows to the chapter after it. i hope you know that this book is not a once upon a time storyteller book, like the others.

2. What is the reason for ''Read'' and teaching by ''Pen'' when the Qur'an was not revealed in writing but as recitation for memorization?

God taught man speech. God taught man how to write, read. Or is there anything useful in your life that you taught yourself and God is not The True Teacher?

3. How did Allah teach by pen when Muhammad could still not read and write after the whole revelation.

reading, writing by pen was not addressed only to Muhammad [sa] about God, but addressing mankind in general telling them as affirmation that God is The Teacher of those things [reading, penmanship, etc including knowledge] man find useful. Read the verses and notice that they talk about mankind, believers and non believers and not just Muhammad [sa]

4. Can the True God tell lies? If we humans can detect Allah's errors, can He still be the all-knowing God? Never can He be.

if there is an error, let us know. God taught man speech. recitation is a speech form. Reading is a speech form. Singing is a speech form.

Please it is only those who have real points that are expected to answer, not those who fabricate lies.

before god created man, man was nothing. if you say man was dirt and that means something to you, please realize that God created dirt and before that there was no dirt, hence man was nothing.

@pointblank 123;

by pointblank 123: 1:16pm
THE VERDICT:

Having gone through the arguments of both parties and in the absence of any other argument, I hereby rule as follows:

From the evidences made available by truthman2012, it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that:

(1) Gabriel is a lying spirit for commanding Muhammad to read when there was nothing to read. He has been proved as a liar.

(2) Gabriel is an evil, violent and wicked spirit because he punished Muhammad for failing to read when when there was nothing to read.

(3) Because Gabriel was an evil and lying spirit, his revelations (quran) are false. A satanic device to direct mankind to Hell.

(4) Because the quran is the book that contains the falsehood of lying Gabriel, every word in the quran is a lie. What it says about Jesus and Christianity is a part of his lies. Therefore the quran is not credible.

(5) If any muslim on nairaland goes to hell, it is not because is ignorant of the truth but because he refuses to accept the truth.

I rise.

sidon because you aint going to where, no how. who gave you a law certificate? mushroom university in aluu. gang banger state? we need to review your credentials and you are definitely going to be disbarred or send efcc on your case for being corruptible. only a person using his hands to think will say that a man from a poetic society will think IQRA is read when it is stated to a man who is illiterate. Muhammad Ali the legendary boxer is not educated, but sure know how to belt out poetry. he coined rumble in the jungle, thriller in manila without thinking about it. it is silly to assume that a word has one meaning especially when that meaning does not fit the situation. seriously.

i was talking to my spouse. i asked her to talk. she said what am i going to talk about. i repeat. talk. she said what am i going to talk about. so i said talk about how much you love me. i saw a smile broke across her lips and her face lit up. speak. when a person hear that, except a person who had something to say along will definitely ask what is it that i should about.


you as a judge should be able to know a little about logic. if you do not know how to speak fanti, when you hear someone speaking it to you, you will definitely say i dont understand. if you are an uneducated man, you will not be able to read your language which you easily speak. if you have sight, you will know how to differentiate between yellow and green colors. but you may not be able to describe them, except point to them as different colors.


the truth is clear and different from falsehood. mr quack judge, today your license is permanently revoked and you are hereby put behind bars in kirikiri. reason is that you fail to see that christianity is not a revealed religion, but was made up. another reason is that Jesus was not a founder of any religion, but he himself practiced on that Abraham himself who was neither a jew nor a christian practiced. Jesus was not son of God because God does not have a need for any. Jesus was is not God because God does not get tortured or killed. Go is unlike anything.

I could give you tons and tons of reasons, except that i believe you have been convicted by your lack of ability to know reality from wrong. i will recommend that the prison authority get you to see shrinks for evaluations. you need it because you are infatuated with illogical.

^^^^ if a man is given a book and he says he can not read, its the same thing with a man who is told to recite or proclaim and says i do not know how to recite [because he is not a reciter of poetry] or proclaim because there is nothing to proclaim and there is no audience to proclaim to. but to say that this man who has no book in front of him is told to read when the same word means recite or proclaim is being dishonest. you can not tell a man who is not a reader to read especially if you didnt give him a book or have taught him how to read. even if you have taught him how to read you must tell him what to read.

to recite is most appropriate because an unlearned person can at least be wise enough to repeat what you are saying, if you are saying to him recite [repeat] without saying anything else, the first time, the second time and it was the third time you said more than that word "recite" and before you stopped you had stated as part of your overall statement 'Who taught man by the Pen. Who taught man that which he knew not."

Recite: In the Name of thy Lord who created,
created man of a blood-clot.
Recite: And thy Lord is the Most Generous,
who taught by the Pen,
taught man that he knew not.
No indeed- surely man waxes insolent,
for he thinks himself self-sufficient.
Surely unto thy Lord is the Returning.

you can now accept what you accept. or rethink your idea and come up with a new understanding.

i hope you know people are taught to read and write. but you can recite meaning repeating what you hear. you are only instructed and you dont have to be taught to speak. it comes naturally in the same way it is natural to eat, etc.

@Rafidi:

by Rafidi : 12:36pm

Sweetnecta: @sexxydivaa; be a muslim. and dont be in a sect.

the pure religion that Muhammad [SA] brought has no sect.


there is no escape from this Shia-Sunni issue or divide.it is historical and affects even the day to day practices.there are many contentious issues which you must face if you decide to stand on your own as an independent party to the two opposing sides in Islam.how do you decide issues like mut'ah,taraweeh,and others? you must examine the facts.and you just cannot do as others are doing for the sake of just been seen as "Muslim",else you'd be torn apart.it is better to be educated on these matters even if your choice is wrong,than to sit on the fence.

my brother, i know what you mean. my prayer is that Allah help us all and don't make our deeds that are good go to waste.

most of my friends know my position. i am a muslim and i end it like that. whatever i didnt head the messenger [SA] and his companions [RA} did, i run away from it. you will never see me in any assalaatu. i dont make sunnah in masjid, except if i am not going to be home between salah. i will not practice mut'ah even if its permissible the same way i will not marry my cousin. or 2 cousins at the same time as my dad [ra] dd. i can make taraweeh on my own. in the past 7 years or so, i have made it on my own. i can also lead my family. or pray it in a jama'ah. i am a believer that if i do basic islam properly, i can actually ingnore the parts where people differ. we all agree that Allah is The Proper Name of Our One God and His Last Messenger being the only one to all creations is Muhammad [SA]. we agree there are 5 daily salah and their numbers we all agree upon. we agree that zakat and sadaqah are import. so is sawn/fasting and Hajj is also. we agree that doing good and forbidden evil and guiding our tongue and private parts are important. if i can struggle through these, i am okay instead of supporting saudi or iran. neither one of them will lead me to jannah or prevent me from jahannam.

i think i have spent 1/3 of my life, already. i think if i improve on the above, i am okay as long as i have hope in Allah. i just dont want us to drag ourselves into things that are unnecessary when we can seek improvement of self and the collective community. Did Ali bin AbiTaiib practice Mut'ah or went against the people who made taraweeh? I am just asking and as I have said, i will not marry y cousin because there are are women outside my family for e to choose from.

@sexxydivaa; be a muslim. and dont be in a sect.

the pure religion that Muhammad [SA] brought has no sect.

@proo212:

by proo212(m): 4:55pm
Truthman2012, do not mind sweetnecta and tbaba. These guys are slimy. Is IQRA recite or read? They have decided in this instance that IQRA means to recite. Their Quran doesn't seem to agree with them though

One of the ways they add Mohammed to the bible is to quote Isaiah 29:12 as the one referred to in the scripture of one who cannot "READ" to support Surah 96:1 which says 96:1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Iqra/ bi-ismi rabbika allathee khalaqa

I have given a few translations and all of the translation said READ and the reply was I/we do not know how to READ. If you notice neither the bible or the Quran says to recite but this Isaiah 29:12 verse has been used severally on this board to support Deut 18:18


New International Version (©1984)
Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read."

do you know the exact word that was used in the original language the text of the bible you quoted? was it read or a hebrew or syriac or semitic veriant of arab "IQRA"?

IQRA has recite is the only meaning at that very first time for Muhammad [as]. it has recite for me, even today. Later IQRA has proclaim as additional meaning for Muhammad [sa] as he was preaching Islam to people, using verses of Quran. it is also proclaim for me here now as i am preaching to you. IQRA means read to all those who can read, the Quran and other books. to simply dug in your heels to read as the only meaning and begin to support it with flimsy evidence like english translation of a verse of OT is bad argument. Did the prophet [as] who God revealed this biblical verse to read it from a book or recited to himself, first and in proclamation of it as a revealed verse to his audience?

What is so interesting is that Muhammad couldn't read. Jesus didnt read his Gospel. He preached it, as in proclamation when he recited verses like "Hear this oh israel, your Lord is my Lord and He is One God". and many other verses.

come on, proo212. how are you going to argue blindly like this? If satan is playing with you, you need to walk away from the accursed soul. You may not realize it that its satan that will make you celebrate the birth of Jesus who was born in spring in december. Spring is always warmer weather, not some darn winter.

Did Jesus celebrated his own birthday? but you just cant help yourself and start a tradition that has no footing in true guidance?