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Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 5:53pm On Dec 16, 2012 |
BetaThings: Reconcile these two your above points on which you need clarification would be answered in matter of seconds when you clarify the below.
Sunnis believe the Prophet (s) can intercede for a believer who committed a sin and repented when he was alive and also on Qiyama.in other words if the Prophet (s) was around and you have a sin you want Allah to forgive,you can approach the Prophet (s) and ask him to intercede with Allah.simply put Sunnis believe in the Tawassul of the Prophet (s) only when he is alive and talking.i am generalizing and saying all "Sunnis" for argument sake because even to this day there are Sunnis who still believe the Prophet (s) can intercede for them even in his grave. "And pray for them, surely your prayer is a relief to them". (Sura Tauba Ayat 103.) "And had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Apostle had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft - returning (to mercy), Merciful". (Surah Nisa: Ayat 64.) the Shia believe simply that both alive and physically (not spiritually) dead,the Prophet (s) can do Tawassul or intercede on their behalf and be a means/approach (waseelah) with Allah at all times. now let me assume that as your claim,the Prophet (s) is dead in all ways at present and his Tawassul or Sha'fa can avail no one.so the Shia doing what people used to do when the Prophet (s) was around is of no effect or use today.let me for argument sake (i repeat) assume those points.please answer these questions: 1. how does the Shia doing Tawassul with the Prophet (s) at present amount to "shirk"? why not accuse us of "stupidity" or "madness"? why must it be "shirk"? 2. on what basis is doing Tawassul with the dead "shirk" and doing Tawassul with the living Islamic and acceptable? 3. how did you conclude that we are "praying" to the dead? whether dead or alive,when you do Tawassul to the Prophet (s) you are not "praying" to or worshiping him.correct me if i am wrong. why asking these questions: you can accuse me of being crazy,hallucinating or stupid,and even wasting my time for asking a "dead man" to do tawassul for me.but for you to accuse me of "shirk" just because the person according to you is dead,does not make sense.even if your understanding of Tawassul is correct and indeed the Prophet (s) is dead in all ways and can be of no use to seek an approach with Allah,if i as a Shia i am wasting my time to still do Tawassul with him,then how do you conclude i am committing "shirk" instead of "stupidity" or "madness" for instance? i insisted to clarifying this point to demonstrate how this issue of Tawassul which as evident from Quranic verses is an Islamic practice and you agree with it (if the Prophet is alive only) is being abused and exploited by the enemies of Shia Muslims to tarnish our reputation.the issue of "shirk" therefore is nothing but a scarecrow used against the Shia to deceive and scare the unsuspecting. i want us to draw the line between what is "shirk" and what is not.i want to put it to your face that we are far from committing "shirk" even if you accuse us of "madness" for "talking with the dead" or seeking the "dead" as an approach (waseelah) to God Almighty.i will try to see that you realize you have being programmed and made to sin by accusing other Muslims (i.e. the Shia) of the heinous crime of "shirk".when we reach a conclusion on this point,then we can discuss Tawassul and whether or not the Prophet (s) dead or alive is of any use in doing Tawassul with Allah.and i will prove to you Islamically that the dead,in particular the RIGHTEOUS,do have a spiritual consciousness or perception of things in the world.and i will treat the above points you brought into the discussion,that i postponed until we reach a conclusion on this "shirk" issue. please i look forward to a constructive dialogue and straightforward answers. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 5:58pm On Dec 16, 2012 |
Zhul-Fiqar.: The poinst here are shorter and esier to deal with. Thanks Zhul-Fiqar.:Don't understand what you mean But if you disagree, it is your duty to make a rebuttal Zhul-Fiqar.: You are misinterpreting issues. Do you pray Janaza on people who abandon salat? What is forgiveness? You don't forgive what is not your right? I cannot forgive people who abandon their duties to Allah These are supposed to be conscious muslims who abandon their homes, comfort and family to make what they consider a religious journey. Yet they will not pray. Misplaced priority in my opinion. The Prophet (PBUH) in his lifetime used to use the call to Adhan to identify muslim communities, not words of mouth Zhul-Fiqar.:You are stretching things. They could be anything (thieves, molesters, fugitive from justice) but their conduct belies their claim that they are making a "religious journey". I cannot understand someone going for hajj and not making salat Zhul-Fiqar.:You judge intentions too much. I am not a fan of Shias but how many time have I 1. opened threads to lambast Shia. You guys even do that to Sunnis during Ramadan 2. defended Sunni practices (from attacks by non-muslims) by comparing Sunnis to Shias But above all, I will not dispute with you what a sahaba and grandson (RA) of the Prophet (PBUH) did. I just don't believe that he (RA) will do what was asserted. Compare what you said the host should have done (leniency) to what Shias claimed Hussain (RA) did. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 6:20pm On Dec 16, 2012 |
BetaThings:i have done so and i will keep doing so. it is not your duty to forgive them.they did nothing wrong to you. you dont perform Janaza prayer on the person who left salat,because you dont give him what he abandoned and did not believe in.the prayer goes to Allah,and therefore you cannot pray on someone who abandoned Allah.but that does not give you the right to fight the person and display harshness for his shortcoming when he is alive.you should by all means show kindness to the person so the may change when he is alive. let me bring the example of Hur.Hur was one of the generals in the army of Umar Ibn Saad,Yazid's commander.Hur was the one who laid siege to Imam Hussein (as) in Karbala.in the last moment Hur,after listening to the speeches of Imam Hussein (as) and noticing the evil of his own army and their bad intentions,switched sides!!!he left his own side and rushed on his horse to Imam Hussein (as) and asked for forgiveness.Imam Hussein (as) forgave him and Hur repented openly right there.Hur (RA) also demanded to be the first martyr in Karbala defending Imam Hussein (as).from becoming the number enemy on the battlefield,Hur (RA) became the number defender of the Imam (as).so imagine if the Imam (as) would have shown harshness and insisted on fighting his enemies and destroying.do you think they will come close to him? let us also take a verse about the attitude of the holy Prophet (s) : Holy Quran Verse 3:159 "Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in Allah; surely Allah loves those who trust". Hajj and Ziyara (visitation) are two different things. you dont destroy a house because a pillar is shaking!!!
what you asserted or what was asserted (by the wahhabi/salafist designers of the video) in the video (and you are defending) that Imam Hussein (as) is forbidding people from offering salat is a lie.Imam Hussein (as) did not forbid anyone from salat based on the dream the Shia scholar narrated.Imam Hussein (as) was asking for "repelling evil with that which is better".if you insist on this lie,then i see no need to continue discussing with you because you see the lie clear and you are trying to defend it to blackmail the Shia.i ask you to desist from this lie that the Shia scholar in the video is claiming Imam Hussein (as) was forbidding people from praying or even supporting people that do not pray in the act of not praying;instead of understanding the point of showing kindness and hope for repentance.desist from the lie or we call this discussion a day. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 5:50am On Dec 20, 2012 |
Zhul-Fiqar.:As you like Zhul-Fiqar.: Did you ever remind these folks of the above and some very gentle ayats you have quoted since we should leave forgiveness/justice to Allah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOZLdqyxpY Zhul-Fiqar.:is this different from what I said. Zhul-Fiqar.:One point of view The other is that my ostracizing him might encourage him to change and start praying while alive which is better for him Than to bring the punishment after death. And we are dealing with people who have some faith in their mind not people who know little about Islam Zhul-Fiqar.:Which is more important? Which is a pillar (Just like Salat)? Which one deserves a higher attention? Zhul-Fiqar.:So what is the basis of this analogy. If I am to stretch your analogy. What do you do when you open threads listing why being a sunni is a Bid'ah? When you accuse Sunnis of the atrocities of BH when most Sunnis denounce the misguidance of this tiny majority. Are you building a house when you do that? Zhul-Fiqar.: You don't seem to get the argument I don't believe that dream! It is FICTION. Anybody can dream. And you guys derive conclusions based on some fantastic dreams This one is CLEARLY wrongly attributed to Hussain (RA). So my interpretation of it is to show that the dream is baseless Zhul-Fiqar.: As you wish. You can stop responding anytime you wish It is an irony that you repeatedly abuse and curse people that Sunnis hold dear But when I disagree with your interpretation of a video, you get angry. The only thing that can come to your mind is that I am abusing Hussain (RA) as if Shias own him, as if Sunnis ever said he committed an offence/a sin, as if Sunnis don't know he is the grandson of the Prophet (PBUH), as if Sunnis don't believe that he was wrongly martyred If you want ti preach forgiveness and open-mindedness, demonstrate it! As for blackmail, it is rich coming from you guys. That is the pastime of Shias Let me show you Zhul-Fiqar.:Now this Scholar could have claimed to have seen a dream in making this ridiculous statement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsv7YNjhNB8 |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 10:36am On Dec 20, 2012 |
Zhul-Fiqar.: Are we talking about praying for or praying to them? And on the second, at what time is this? When the Prophet (PBUH) was alive? After his death but before the day of Qiyama? Or after his resurrection on the day of Qiyama? Zhul-Fiqar.: Because Only ALLAh is to be asked for things that cannot ordinarily be granted by human being (eg good health, safety etc) Anyone who asks any other person is implying that another can grant such things Zhul-Fiqar.: Shirk is involved when a human being who is alive is asked to grant things like good health, protection from harm, well-behaved children etc Zhul-Fiqar.: From this video. The Shia Scholars say 00.34 - 00.43 "today many of our believing brothers if they have someone who is sick, they knock at the door of Hussein, the door of al-Abbas. Al-Hussain and Al-Abbas fulfill his needs, answer his prayers." 2.40 - 2.42 "Ask Sayeda Zainab with the true intention and pure heart in the belief that she will never reject you." 5.37 - 5.40 "Doctor, you are my master, and the visitors are patients; and there is none who can cure them beside you, so lead me however you please" 6.12 - 6.36 "The second way, it is much deeper. When I know for sure that this One by His nature does not give. i come to the one in the tomb...What will I say? I will say ..'I want it from you' When I believe and know I'm a criminal person and don't have dignity to speak to Allah, what will I say? I will say Abu Hussain. I want it from you" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1AUQ8rEhqM |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Sexxydivaa: 8:47pm On Dec 21, 2012 |
*confused*.seriously,this is less than my expectations..hmmm.Allah Knows Best |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Sweetnecta: 10:34pm On Dec 21, 2012 |
@sexxydivaa; be a muslim. and dont be in a sect. the pure religion that Muhammad [SA] brought has no sect. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 11:29am On Dec 22, 2012 |
BetaThings: if you are going to continue this way,we will keep jumping from one issue to another.and obvious from your posts,you are derailing the thread and running from the main topic.yet still i will pin you down.i'm not sure if you are simply confused or something else.but let's see. as for the above,the case of Aisha is totally a different one from someone who misses salat or doesn't even pray as a Muslim. this is the case of Aisha when she went against the Imam of her time in the Battle of Jamal: "if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..." (Noble Quran 5:32) and not all Shia go about celebrating on her death day.mostly its the followers of Sheikh Yassir al-Habib that go about doing that to "piss" Sunnis. that topic got nothing to do in this thread.you can see this thread on Aisha: https://www.nairaland.com/1107764/story-sunni-imam-shia-ayatollah/4
sending him out of your house is not the same as "ostracizing" him.stop drifting. am i denying the importance of salat? being a Sunni i not only not following the right thing (like not praying) but outright bid'ah indeed because you are following the handwork of fallible and often sinful men. oh so now it is no longer "Shia say Hussein is forbidding them from salat".it is now "the dream is fiction".LOL how do you know it is fiction? who told you that?
this is new in you.for you to say Imam Hussein (as) was unjustly killed is really an improvement coming from you.the wahhabis/salafists you seem so influenced by their thinking believe Yazeed was the "rightful" ruler and Imam Hussein (as) was wrong.so indeed you are coming closer to the truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98bK3V7JNfY |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 11:56am On Dec 22, 2012 |
BetaThings:we are talking here about Tawassul and not the wahhabi/salafist wet dreams of "shirk".we dont pray to them/him.we pray to Allah.Tawassul can be done till Qiyama and on the day of resurrection,the Prophet's (s) shafa'a (intercession) will be of use. you have not answered my question.i am talking of Tawassul and not asking someone else to grant you whatever with the intention the thing you are asking for is not by Allah's power but the power of the person you are asking.whoever is a Shia or a Muslim believing in Allah and the Prophet (s),when that person do Tawassul and asks the Prophet (s) to be an approach to Allah,that person in his heart does not believe it is by the Prophet's (s) power or the Imams that anything can be done.the Prophet (s) and his Ahlul-Bayt (as) are only means to reach Allah.there is no might or power except in Allah. let me take you back to my question. how does the Shia doing Tawassul with the Prophet (s) at present amount to "shirk"? why not accuse us of "stupidity" or "madness"? why must it be "shirk"? you do believe Tawassul when the Prophet (s) was alive is permissible.why does it amount to shirk if Tawassul is done,just because the Prophet (s) is physically dead? i dont know how you jumped to the conclusion to answer me that asking a human being what ordinarily cannot be done by humans is shirk.i did not ask you what is shirk or how asking a human being for something he cannot do *with the intention or belief it is the human being NOT Allah that is doing the action* is shirk.we know if it is done with that intention it is shirk.but we are not talking about that.i am talking about Tawassul,that whatever you ask the Prophet (s) or the righteous and pious servants of Allah is only means for Allah to do your wishes and accept your prayer.i keep asking you on Tawassul,which you admit "was" permissible,and you keep talking about "shirk".its all in your head.as for our intentions,we dont believe in any god other than Allah,and we dont believe the prophets or holy imams are independent of Allah.spare us your shirk scarecrow.you still dont want to face reality and see the fact that doing Tawassul when the Prophet (s) was alive, and thereafter still doing it when he is dead cannot amount to "shirk" in anyway.like i said,accuse us of "madness" or "stupidity" for doing Tawassul with the dead who cannot hear to seek Allah's pleasure for us.but that doesnt amount to shirk. that is not my question. i did not ask you to tell me what constitute shirk with the living.i asked about Tawassul,not shirk. on what basis is doing Tawassul with the dead "shirk" and doing Tawassul with the living Islamic and acceptable? and your statement above about asking the living and shirk,can be true when you are asking some ordinary person like BetaThing or myself that have no elevated status with Allah,like prophethood or imamate.it can also be true if you ask a chosen servant of Allah things such as good health,if you have the intention that it is by the power of that servant of Allah (independent of Allah) that your request is granted.not when you believe the person is still a creature and servant of Allah (even though chosen) and by himself he can do nothing. also,if asking for health from a prophet is shirk,then what do you say about those blind people who would come to Prophet Jesus (as) to be healed or the dead he gave life to? was that shirk too? Prophet Jesus (as) was performing things which according to you if sought from even a living person amount to shirk.you can clearly see that by the power and permission of Allah,it is not shirk to ask for these things.in the Quran as recorded,Allah ordered Iblis to prostrate (do rukoo) to Adam (as),and that is not shirk.why? do you care to tell us?
you can ask the chosen ones of Allah anything.it is tawassul.it doesnt mean they are independent of Allah or it is by their own power.you are judging the intentions of others.when i ask the Prophet (s) for so and so,i believe in my mind my request can only be granted only if Allah wills and accepts my request and the role of the Prophet (s) as "waseela" (approach) because the Prophet (s) can neither go against the will of Allah,and also nothing can be granted against the will of Allah.stop judging people who believe in the Oneness of Allah and do not believe there is any "god" beside(s) Allah.i cant say you are worshipping the Ka'ba when you face the Qiblah,because i dont judge your intention to insist that the Ka'ba is what you are worshipping or it is in fact your own "god". |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 11:58am On Dec 22, 2012 |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 11:59am On Dec 22, 2012 |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ZhulFiqar2: 12:00pm On Dec 22, 2012 |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Rafidi: 12:36pm On Dec 22, 2012 |
Sweetnecta: @sexxydivaa; be a muslim. and dont be in a sect. there is no escape from this Shia-Sunni issue or divide.it is historical and affects even the day to day practices.there are many contentious issues which you must face if you decide to stand on your own as an independent party to the two opposing sides in Islam.how do you decide issues like mut'ah,taraweeh,and others? you must examine the facts.and you just cannot do as others are doing for the sake of just been seen as "Muslim",else you'd be torn apart.it is better to be educated on these matters even if your choice is wrong,than to sit on the fence. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Sweetnecta: 2:41pm On Dec 22, 2012 |
@Rafidi: by Rafidi : 12:36pmmy brother, i know what you mean. my prayer is that Allah help us all and don't make our deeds that are good go to waste. most of my friends know my position. i am a muslim and i end it like that. whatever i didnt head the messenger [SA] and his companions [RA} did, i run away from it. you will never see me in any assalaatu. i dont make sunnah in masjid, except if i am not going to be home between salah. i will not practice mut'ah even if its permissible the same way i will not marry my cousin. or 2 cousins at the same time as my dad [ra] dd. i can make taraweeh on my own. in the past 7 years or so, i have made it on my own. i can also lead my family. or pray it in a jama'ah. i am a believer that if i do basic islam properly, i can actually ingnore the parts where people differ. we all agree that Allah is The Proper Name of Our One God and His Last Messenger being the only one to all creations is Muhammad [SA]. we agree there are 5 daily salah and their numbers we all agree upon. we agree that zakat and sadaqah are import. so is sawn/fasting and Hajj is also. we agree that doing good and forbidden evil and guiding our tongue and private parts are important. if i can struggle through these, i am okay instead of supporting saudi or iran. neither one of them will lead me to jannah or prevent me from jahannam. i think i have spent 1/3 of my life, already. i think if i improve on the above, i am okay as long as i have hope in Allah. i just dont want us to drag ourselves into things that are unnecessary when we can seek improvement of self and the collective community. Did Ali bin AbiTaiib practice Mut'ah or went against the people who made taraweeh? I am just asking and as I have said, i will not marry y cousin because there are are women outside my family for e to choose from. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by DevotedOne(m): 4:03pm On Dec 22, 2012 |
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him. This is quite interesting. Some of the topics presented here are the same topics that have been discussed in the 'Shia Encyclopedia' I've posted and also in a video I'm viewing here; 'it is a must watch' video: "Misconceptions of Shi'a" - Ammar Nakhshwani Lecture at MIT Wassalaam. DevotedOne |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 7:29am On Dec 23, 2012 |
Zhul-Fiqar.: What is the main issue? T[b]his thread is about nature of Shia Islam as the true way[/b] A man welcomed very warmly people who claimed to be muslims and later turned them out because they did not pray. It is claimed that he committed a sin. So why is he entitled to forgiveness while Aisha is not qualified. And LagosShia, the leader of NL Shias have consistently said that it is Sunnis that have all these confusing positions on issues. He asserts that you are united in your views. You never contested that when he was around. Please withdraw that claim that it is only some Shias that abuse Aisha. I don't really want to run around NL trying to digest all these threads. Zhul-Fiqar.:So what is it? Zhul-Fiqar.:So when did those guys pray? So what punishment were they given for delaying the prayer. I know from the story the punishment for those who sent them out of his house. The story is designed to teach lessons. You have an opportunity to provide it Zhul-Fiqar.:Every person that I know of including the leader of all Men, the one with the EXCELLENT character, Prophet Muhhammad ibn Abdullah (PBUH) sought forgiveness from Allah Zhul-Fiqar.:Stop laughing please. I never believed the story. Do you believe it? Because if you do and we now proceed to analyse it, you will be committing sins. Note the plural, BTW, remember that you may indulge in sophistry on the matter, others who are reading can make up their minds Zhul-Fiqar.:Look at this. Some people sat through it and believed it. They believed it was true. Do you? Pardon the commentaries. I did not make the video. So I cannot edit it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0SaipSR_Lk Zhul-Fiqar.:So your own thinking is so independent that you cannot be influenced? I am the only one who can be influenced? And what are you trying to do here to me? You justify your opinion on this matter by quoting one person. Is that the only Sunni opinion, even in Saudi Arabia? I can post videos of people whose opinions are different from his. But you just assumed that there is a consensus BTW What is the truth? You claim that I judge the intention of people.Right? Anyway, I CHALLENGE YOU (ZHUL FIQAR) TO BRING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM THAT MY ASSERTION THAT HUSSAIN (RA) WAS UNJUSTLY KILLED IS AN IMPROVEMENT ON MY(BETATHINGS) POSITION. AND I hope you will not twist this or run away from it. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Zhulfiqar1: 10:55am On Dec 23, 2012 |
^ i think i am done with you in this thread (even though i'd try to entertain your post with replies if i can). this is for you and make sure you watch it (it is based on scholarly research using books and not based on twisted thinking,ill-logic and contempt) : https://www.nairaland.com/1140610/wahhabism-exposed |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Zhulfiqar1: 11:34am On Dec 23, 2012 |
BetaThings:you are still insisting on taking us to the topic of Aisha.Aisha is disliked by all Shia.as for the issue of abuse,that is a big term.our dislike can manifest in different ways.however,in order not to offend Sunnis,we are taught to avoid talking about her because there is nothing good to remember when you consider all she did in a balanced way free from favor or fear.what the followers or rather associates of Sheikh Yasser al-Habib are doing by commemorating on the day she died as a day of joy is basically to piss Sunnis,nothing more nothing less.i dont even know when Aisha died and i dont even care.it is nothing important.Sheikh Yasser al-Habib was exiled from his native Kuwait by Sunnis (or if you like to depict their extremism,call them wahhabis/salafists).his citizenship was revoked.he has issues that are also personal.so exercise some understanding on the facts here. if you want someone to change his ways or bad habit,like not praying or taking prayers lightly,you need to talk to him even if it is harshly.but sending the person away or driving him out of your house,knowing that the person is a stranger is no method to convince him to pray or talk sense into his skull. in the shariah is there any punishment for someone who doesn't pray? how do you even know the person is not praying? anyone can lie if the person is really evil and not bent on praying.its the same about fasting.i have been lectured that fasting is the sincerest of worship.when you are fasting it is only you and God.you can eat secretly and pretend to be fasting.so fasting is a test of sincerity.we can also draw that parallel when it comes to salat. because Allah is the Creator and we are the created.even th thought of a creature posing that he is sinless and does not need God's forgiveness or not doing "istighfar" (which is also translated as seeking nearness or protection,alongside seeking forgiveness) is arrogance.and the Prophet (s) was far from being arrogant. the fact is you can NEVER ever prove that what that man was preaching was not an actual dream,or that he made up a story to impart his message.only God knows.
how do the two relate? or you just want to find another way of popping up another topic. it is the consensus of Shia scholars that there is no addition or subtraction of the present-day Quran we have,and it is as it was revealed. check this: https://www.nairaland.com/860351/shiahs-not-believe-present-quran the scholar in the video was citing a hadith.hadiths about the distortion of the Quran are present in both Sunni and Shia narrations.that is reality even in sahih bukhari,the most authentic sunni book of hadith.however,upon closer study,you see these narrations are either fabricated or full of errors.in the above link i gave,there is a comprehensive work by Ayatollah Abu'l Qassim al-Khoei refuting and explaining the hadiths that cast doubt or argument on the Quran. i also noticed that a portion from the scholar's statement was cut out where he cited a hadith about subtraction.yet we didnt see the entire lecture to know what he was saying in context.he may have been explaining that such hadiths are fabricated hadiths to cast doubt on the Quran.he may actually be refuting the hadiths.but a statement was just randomly picked out and used to atack the Shia.its unfair! at least let us know the context in which that statement was made so we can judge,especially that the same scholar did categorically say there is no distortion in the Quran.so we should know in what context was the same scholar referring to a random hadith.
the wahhabi scholar in that video is the Grand Mufti of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.he is also a direct descendant of Ibn Abdul-Wahab,the founder of the wahhabiya movement.the verdict of the mufti in any country is binding upon the scholars.he is the highest religious authority in Sunni countries,even though most often the muftis are government employed and can merely be seen as government employees. as regarding you,i am happy you dont share the opinion of the saudi grand mufti on Imam Hussein (as).i am in fact relieved.i believe there is hope for you.you just need to stop watchig malicious videos delieberately designed to defame the Shia and take you further away from the truth.the truth is the path of Muhammad (s) and Aal-Muhammad (as),which we Shia abide to.i said i am relieved you dont share the opinion of the saudi mufti,because you have previous associated yourself with Ibn Abdul-Wahab and displayed wahhabi/salafist ideas in our debates and discussions.i do know Sunnis (the mainstream) do not have a good view of Yazid and they say they love Imam Hussein (as)-regardless of what i think about their "love".but my dear friend you have to know that with the billions of petro-dollars,the saudis who are wahhabis/salafists are doing utmost in exporting their ideology as the prevailing Sunni beliefs and ideology.and under the banner of "Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jama'ah" which is meant to deceive the unsuspecting,the wahhabis/salafists are succeeding in infiltrating the Sunnis.a normal mainstream Sunni guy can easily be convinced using Sunni sources about why he should be a Shia.but a Sunni under influence of wahhabism/salafism is very difficult to convince because of his mental build-up on issues like accusing others of "shirk" (idolatry/polytheism) and making other false accusations meant to defame and demonize.and you know the saudi petro-money is there.they dont work for it. when you closely observe the beliefs of the Shia and mainstream Sunnis on Tawassul and Yazid,you see that Shia and mainstream Sunnis are more close,than mainstream Sunnis and Sunnis that are "wahhabized"/"salafized".but the wahhabis/salafists find it easier to infiltrate the mainstream Sunni youth like yourself because they operate under the banner of "ahlus-sunnah wal jama'ah".and the danger of wahhabism/salafism if not stopped by people like you is grave to the very existence of this ummah and the religion of Islam! Saudi Wahhabis Name School In Honor Of Yazeed https://www.nairaland.com/868603/saudi-wahhabis-name-school-honor |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 1:30pm On Dec 23, 2012 |
Zhul-fiqar:I have issues who dislike Aisha. Allah will judge ALL of us on the day of Qiyama. I am I safe hellfire? I don't know. So why judge anyone Zhul-fiqar:An opinion which I don't share Zhul-fiqar:The answer to your questions are already in the story. Watch the movie again Zhul-fiqar: So your saying some people may be sinful is unnecessary. No one is immune Zhul-fiqar:The same person states different position on the same issue. Refute the poster if you truly believe that the Shia Scholar might have been distorted. To me, he is a liar. So the dream about the people who did not pray is in the same class Zhul-fiqar:Kailani, the author of Al Kafi, no less a figure, believes that the Qur'an was distorted Zhul-fiqar:A grand Mufti is a human being, very fallible. Some scholars have been known to disagree with the Grand Mufti Zhul-fiqar: It is Shias that call people Wahhabis. Even your brother, LagosShia, has called me WhhabiThing I don't know people who call themselves Wahhabis. Neither do I know that Wahhabiya movement Zhul-fiqar:So out the "malicious Wahhabi" videos I now need to immerse my brain in the "benevolent" Shia videos Great! Zhul-fiqar: I listen to everyone. I find a great deal of the ideas of Shayk Ibn Abdul Wahhab very very sensible I am convinced that Hussein (RA) was unjustly killed with members of his family. Incidentally there is a video of a Saudi you would call a "Wahhabi" which puts this Hussein (RA) matter beyond doubt But Allah will judge (with His incomparable Knowledge and Wisdom) on the day of Qiyama Zhul-fiqar: Exactly what everyone is trying to do, including you and I, with or without money . Zhul-fiqar: The hardest people to convince ever, in my opinion and experience, are the Shias. They never concede anything! Zhul-fiqar:The so-called Wahhabis tell me that Shias too are very dangerous to Islam. Shias are not infallible. Why have you never brought any evidence of such a disreputable act by Shias to balance all of these? I would believe you more if you show that the Shias are human! |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by Zhulfiqar1: 12:36am On Dec 24, 2012 |
BetaThings: Imam Amir-ul-Mu'mineen Ali [a] said: "O' Kumayl! Say what is just in any condition. Be friends with the righteous and avoid the evil doers, stay away from the hypocrites and do not accompany the treacherous." Mustadrak-ul-Wasa'il, vol. 12, p. 197 what's the punishment for someone who doesn't pray in the sharia.simple question.tell us. someone says he saw a dream,and you are accusing him of lying about the dream.are you ok?
liar! https://www.nairaland.com/860351/shiahs-not-believe-present-quran#10097518 so how come a school is named in saudi arabia in honor of yazid if the mufti was mistaken? the position that yazid was a "legitimate" ruler and Imam Hussein (as) was "wrong" is the prevailing view among the tiny wahhabis/salafists among Sunnis. deception. liar! BetaThings: Trying to explain away the lie in the 2nd video does YOU no credithttps://www.nairaland.com/1140610/wahhabism-exposed#13518361
no they are "monsters". |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 2:42am On Jan 15, 2013 |
DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him. I have watched the video of Amar in MIT. Explained some concepts but left out some Watch this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izDif7mH_cs |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by DevotedOne(m): 4:02pm On Jan 16, 2013 |
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him. Hmm. That is, a switch. So, who are we to listen to? Wassalaam.. DevotedOne |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 5:31pm On Jan 16, 2013 |
DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him.You asked me to listen to Amar. I did I even downloaded it to playback I suggest you listen to ALL and then make up your mind |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by bntY: 8:12pm On Jan 16, 2013 |
@devoted one,i guess u didnt watch d bilal philips u posted.you've just put a banana peel in ur steps,don't blame anybody for ur slip.In football i think it's called ESCOBA. @devoted one,i guess u didnt watch d bilal philips u posted.you've just put a banana peel in ur steps,don't blame anybody for ur slip.In football i think it's called ESCOBA. |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by DevotedOne(m): 8:35pm On Jan 16, 2013 |
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him. You asked me to listen to Amar. I did I've made up my mind. I'll just leave those videos alone until I've finished my study of the Shi'ite Encyclopedia literature I started with (re: on the first page). Thanks for your help. Wassalaam. DevotedOne |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by DevotedOne(m): 8:44pm On Jan 16, 2013 |
In The Name of The Only One, The Almighty, The Eternal, The Self-Subsisting in Whom All subsist. Peace be upon you, everyone. bntY: @devoted one,i guess u didnt watch d bilal philips u posted.you've just put a banana peel in ur steps,don't blame anybody for ur slip.In football i think it's called ESCOBA. @devoted one,i guess u didnt watch d bilal philips u posted.you've just put a banana peel in ur steps,don't blame anybody for ur slip.In football i think it's called ESCOBA. I watched the Bilal Phillips video. What did I miss? I guess that it's permissible to slip as long as we learn from it. Wa salaam. DevotedOne |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 2:46am On Jan 18, 2013 |
DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. Ya Nabi; Sallallahu 'alaihi wa salam -- May the Blessings and Peace of Allah be upon Him.Interesting. You made up your mind before watching the video? Why did you open this thread and put up the videos then? BTW the Amar's video you posted is more than 1 hr 41 mins long. And I watched it in FULL Bilal's is 7 and a half mins. And I watched it The one I posted is less than 6 mins. And you don't have the time to watch it! It would be hard to believe that you are sincere and want genuine exchange of ideas |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 2:49am On Jan 18, 2013 |
DevotedOne: In The Name of The Only One, The Almighty, The Eternal, The Self-Subsisting in Whom All subsist. Peace be upon you, everyone. It is clear from the video that Bilal Philips is not Shia So what he says is different from the topic of your post or even your comments So we believe that you watched it and the only option left is that you assumed that we would not watch it and fall for your propaganda that Bilal Philips speaks in favour of Shi'ism If you believe that is being unfair, then we settle for the alternative that you lied originally (that you watched it) and you have done so again |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by vedaxcool(m): 1:00pm On Jan 18, 2013 |
BetaThings: In a Religion by propaganda it is very fair indeed |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by BetaThings: 8:05pm On Jan 19, 2013 |
^^^^ So I am beginning to understand May Allah save us from misguidance and fitna |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ShiaLagos1: 2:42am On Jan 20, 2013 |
BetaThings: refer to these: LagosShia: LagosShia: LagosShia: LagosShia: LagosShia: what is wrong with this statement: https://www.nairaland.com/913503/allah-everywhere#10688009 |
Re: Re: How I Discovered Shia Islam Was The True Islam by ShiaLagos1: 2:46am On Jan 20, 2013 |
BetaThings: ^^^^ like this you mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoGjqkUMz0 Zhul-fiqar: |
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