@Tiarabubu: The christian sect considers and says Warren Jeff who is in Prison in Las vegas is God on earth. see how easy to say a human is God? I remember the branch davidian under david kuresh in Waco Texas. this was also their opinion. what about Jim Jones of Jonestown in Gayana in the 1970s? each of these people considered their leaders prophet and then God on earth who must be obeyed, not jut followed. i guess christianity i still evolving.

i know many people who call me dad. I am truly their dad, including my step children, each of those i do not share blood or family heritage with?

@Tiarabubu:

by tiarabubu: 11:30pm On Nov 23

How much of God do you know to determine what is rational or not about him.

i am almost certain that tbaba will not use lower case H when he writes Him for God. If knowing about God i indicated by the H, then the capital H guy has my vote.

Consider this; to an atheist, the existence of God himself is irrational!

If atheist are not emotional, they should ask themselves if they or it is the theist who is closer to guidance. There must be guidance because even the atheist believe there is rationality at work in his life.

If God is soo powerful, does he need a wife to "procreate"? shocked That position itself is stupidly irrational.

what is the purpose for God to even procreate? human procreates because he will die and there is another generation to replace him on earth? Does God in heaven needs a replacement?

In Christianity, God has no limit and nothing is hard for him.

and according to the Bible Jesus was allowed to die.

So is the concept of trinity impossible? Of course no; he is all powerful.

Did Yahweh ever restricted Himself? Of course. He allowed the children of Israel to be massacred in Egypt and sacked several times, even almost annihilated before zionism took root.


[quite]You can't use your human brain to rationalize God and say the concept of trinity is irrational.[/quote]Yahweh said in OT He is One. Jesus said God is One. The disciples said Jesus is the servant of God, sent to the children of Israel.

If God is All Powerful and omnipresent, as the Quran says, and yet can't have a son without procreation, is the Quran not limiting God?

God limits Himself in many cases. For example, He does not let judgment descend on the guilty until time. Patience by restriction was evidence in the case of tyrannical pharaoh. God even allows satan to live until after all humans so that each human may be judged by resisting or falling into temptation.

But all this argument is based on faith and belief and will go back and forth forever. Lets look at mundane issues, shall we;


Show me a religion today aside Islam that prompt people to systematically murder at will not as a result of insurrection, war, rebellion etc but pure murder on an epic scale[quote]Take christianity or cults from it or hindus. each take prides in killing muslims. oh, i forgot, the jews as a race.


[quote]then we will have something to talk about. A religion that murders its own kind because of ideological differences. See how Shia's are murdered in cold blood, Bahais hounded, Wahabis doing their thing.

human tragedy; England invaded Argentina because of er next door Fulkan Islands. What are the brits doing in latin america? Oh, the catholic in northern ireland were killing the protestants and England almost killed them all. Jerry Adam of Shin Feh was almost a gonna. Late sanator Ted kennedy raised funds for the irish resistant catholic.

And that is the straight path?! No thanks.

The jews rejected the path of their messiah. you reject the path of your another comforter, the "that Prophet" [sa].

What I am getting at is the foundation of belief.

foundation of belief is the book not the adherents.

The practice and actions of adherents reflects what those fundamentals are.

not always especially if the practices and actions are different from what are on the pages of the boo where you will find the foundation.

All your sugar coating Al-taquiyya will not cut it.

al taquiyya is practices by some shia. is tbaba a shia? i doubt if lagosshia even practice al taquiyya.

What further examples are there than what is happening today. By their fruits you shall know them.... remember?

so prevalent homosexu.ality in christianity is now part of the fruits of christianity? or the ritualistic phenomenon within nigerian christians is now what christianity is?

i wonder how Islam is modifying itself in the west? is there a verse changed from the original or abrogated in the west while in the east you ill find it as it was originally?

Lets look at your islamic law.

Disadvantages of islamic inheritance


1) The numbers dont add up
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Add_up.html

if i buy a middle size pizza from Papa John because there were just 3 of us that were going to eat it while watching New England patriot being crushed by New York giants the crust sliced in six pieces from the store. If by the time the delivery knocked, 2 other friends showed up, make us 5 people to munch on this pizza now. is there anything wrong if we take a pizza cutter and make 6 slices into slices where if we are to have equal amount each will have 1/5 of the pie, instead when each of the original 3 will have a 1/3. since we had 6 slices before, what is normal is that we can slice each slice into 5 smaller slices and each takes a slice from each new 5 slices fro each of the 6 original or we can just take 1 slice each of the original 6 and the 6th slice divide it equally into 5 smaller sizes as the last portion for each of us. That is equity.

if on the other hand, there are beautiful women among us who eat like birds, you can expect them to less than their husbands. lets say the husbands eat double what they women eat. We know that women will still make men pay.

This is the reality of life. and since one person paid for the pizza, what everyone else got in portion is a freebee.

this is what inheritance is and it distribution because the total is always a whole pie. slicing is is distributing it appropriately according to position, gender and group. but it is always a freebee.

2) Female children are guaranteed to be cheated

female children are retired even before they started any job. they are wards of their father, maybe their brothers, but definitely their husbands. even if you become a neurosurgeon, you may decide not to do anything. how is she cheated when somebody is paying through the noses to upkeep her?

3) Forces a man to share his money which might not be according to his will

men take it as badge of honor to care for their women folks. I do. I dislike any of my women to work.

@self worth;

by SELFWORTH: 12:37am
Should Allah be recommending that his followers kill innocent people at all and take lives they did not bestow?

if you read my statement of opinion, there is no place i suggest that Allah allows killing of innocent people. your asking me here is pointless. even disobedience is allowed till appointed time. people may even repent before the end of their lives. Allah does not have followers, only prophets do. Allah has worshipers and I am one of them. But all are Hid creations and slaves.

Who could forget all the innocent people killed in 9/11 in the name of this same Allah....

muslims died in WTC. i remember many muslim establishments on the concourse. there were bangladeshis, pakistanis, indians and others who were muslims and perished in the towers. i know the places well. Allah does not ask anyone to kill anyone and kill yourself while at it. Suicide is not allowed. genocidal, murder of individual or people or group is not allowed. Plane is not a weapon. so are suicide belts. Allah does not allow suicide or killing squad like boko haram, taliban, alqaida and others.

it is not part of Islam to kill for something so small and personal as what you wear.

to cover properly, it is recommended for women who will mount a high off the ground vehicles, like suv to even wear pants that will cover the heels so that when she is climbing up, her feet are the only thing uncover, even if at that.

may Allah guide these people away from taking innocent lives.

if you do not allow people to live their lives through, you have deprived them the chance of Mercy. maybe Allah could have guided them at old age. maybe.

@Jcross:

by jcross19: 4:32pm
have you ever see an aged man that can see clearly? is never a blnd man okay but s suffering from old age okay,

i know people in their 80s and 90s, males and females who do not wear glasses. my mother is able to attend to serious matters and inshaAllah I am looking forward to her cooking for old time sake. the aroma from her stew remains on my tongue always. how do you love a almost 90 year old woman who can still be independent, even good for the the family? thats my mom and she doesnt use glass and still a pretty looking woman. she has good genes.

and let me tell you one thing jesus make us to know that God who make sun to shine on just and unjust . is a merciful God that has clear your ignorance .

you dont have to believe in anything to see that the sun shines on every person and animal, tree and stone. even the sun can enter the cave. what are talking about? Alhamdulillah. God is Merciful and ready to accept the sincere repentance of man.

olaadegbu is a joke needed to be left alone. i am doing just that because nothing good or intelligent is coming from your posts:
you cant even define or support the claim of God son, except that you freeze all rational and just blindly make absurd conclusion to it.
you cant defend how Jesus is the only way to God for man, when Adam and other prophets appeared before him and led many believers to God. Evidently Joshua was not led to God by Jesus. Joshua did not need Jesus and there is no evidence that he knew Jesus will ever be created and sent to the jews.
you cant defend death or it being for 3 nights and 3 days. you do not have evidence for it and there s no mathematical calculation that you can employ to get 3 nights and 3 days out of friday evening to sunday early [dawn] morning.

you cant even prove that no one came after Jesus because from your Bible Paul wrote over 50% of NT and said no new thing that you will say is leading him to be dubiously another comforter because he was not a prophet. That prophet was being expected and being the another comforter must teach to all things, including what is true that Jesus taught that he will affirm and what Jesus found his disciples to be immature to learn because of their little faith.

dialoguing with you is like watching tom and jerry cartoon show.

@bigmaut: could you tell me what made Ishmael illegitimate even Yahweh gave him the name Ishmael, blessed him and never cursed him and the evil wishes of the biblical angel never came true on him, while the legitimate Isaac was not named by God and he in his old age was blind and his wife betrayed him and his son Esau?

in you your own mind is that how legitimacy should suffer and illegitimacy should not? do you people keep your brains in your briefcases and just come out with empty folders?


is jordan Ramala, when a person from ramala wants to remain in it? the key of the holiest christian place in jerusalem is in the hands of a muslim family. thats how old palestinians are to the land. even older.

@Olaadegbu:

by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:42am

This is the truth that you can't contain:

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:3-4).

let be play with your mind for a moment by asking you questions you must provide evidential answers to.

who is the author of the romans verse above and what relationship or association did he have with Jesus to make such a bold claim?
why did none of the 12 disciples make such a claim, instead called Jesus a prophet, son of man, a man approved by God among the jews?
the 100's michael hart stated that christianity is formed by Paul and it is the doctrines of Paul that is preached while orders of Jesus are discarded. Jesus said the laws of prophets before him are in order and no one should abolish it. Is this true?

but Paul said the laws are nailed on the cross, meaning all of the laws are now discarded. Is this true?
who is correct, Jesus who said whoever abolishes them is the least and who ever practices them is the great or Paul who said they are now irrelevant?

You should realise by now that the title of Son of God is not just a claim but has been attested by the evidence of His death and bodily resurrection which only God can do.

i agree that God can raise the dead. in fact He will raise all dead people for Judgment. but if your saying that Jesus is confirmed as son of God [thank God you didnt say begotten here. i guess you are learning], then what does his rejected prayer not to die in the first place confirms him as if you say that he died after all of that prayers against death? It must serve as the opposite and far from what you claim, because God rejects prayers of people and raises people from death quite commonly.

This is where all false religions and cults become stuck.

i see that you forgot that you call some christians cultists; roman catholics that has been existing before protestants, the protestants that you belong to. the catholic used to call you, protestants cultists. i need to remind you that you all call the jehovah witnesses, the 7th day adventists, the mormons and others cultists. even from your ranks we have the appalachian snake handling church service people. just to show you that you are a cultist, the snake bites almost always send your brethren to the graves. oh. the jews you forgot. i know you are sleep typing. wake up, olaadegbu and smell the coffee.

Tell me what leader or founder of any of the religions can lay claim to defeating death?

satanism is a religion and i am sure that you know that satan is not dead and you claim that he even fought Yahweh? death has not even came to him. i see that you didnt mention Moses in the list of those who remained dead. but heck. Moses you say is the founder of Judaism and is the leader of this religion that you say Jesus practiced in stead of Islam that I say he practiced. we both agree that Jesus was not a christian and Paul is almost the exclusive founder. Paul is dea, too.

They are all dead and buried in their tombs. The fact that Jesus died and rose from the dead the third day has become a stumbling block to the religious and unbelieving.

not that i say he died. but the fact that you said he died is an evidence that he is not related to God more than Moses was, or Adam was, or Abraham was. Each was a prophet, human prophet leading his community to the Will of God and serving as the way to God to those who died in his time as followers, being believers in his mission. Noah prayed for distructions of the disbelievers of his time. they were wiped out. Moses prayed for the destructions of Pharaoh. He drowned. Moses prayed that those among his people who made a yahweh idol in form of cow in gold perish in the desert. they perished between after leaving Egypt but before getting to Jerusalem. Or was the distance between Cairo and Jerusalem decreased from what it used to be in the time of Moses? you say Jesus prayed to Yahweh all night that Jehovah saved him from death. instead, according to you, Yahweh sent a ghost to support him and in spite of this, you said Jesus was killed not by all men, but by few jews. This alone is an evdence that Jesus could not be a son of God since John was killed by the same jews, we have to say that they were humans, prophets. But not son of God because God has no need for a son. what purpose? who is God going to sacrifice His son to, Himself? who can make demand and force God to do anything?

His resurrection is the evidence you need to know that Jesus is the Son of God and by believing in Him you will have eternal life.

by my calculation, 3 nights and 3 days must extend to include the 3 nights. how is friday evening in the cave and ending by sunday morning amounting to 3 nights and 3 days? do you now anything about calculating 3 nights? it is always the dark hours when people sleep after a previous day end and waking up to a new day. give me 3 sleeping nights and then i will begin to consider you thinking as something worth considering. you have friday evening all the way to sunday dawn to get us 3 nights and 3 days.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18 ).

i see you whipping out the begotten son, again. dear beloved do not believe in every spirit, because so many false spirits have gone into the world. But test the spirit to see if it is from God. the spirit that says Jesus is Christ is of God. If you open the Quran, you will see where Jesus was called Christ [as].

Another test of spirit is that the prophet who speaks and whtat he says does not come to pass is a false prophet and do not fear him, because he shall die. Jesus according to you from the Bible that he will mae his return before all the 12 disciples died. All of them have long gone. I have to surprise you; Jesus didnt make it. all who say they are christians now are waiting for him to make that return. what is the conclusion if you consider that the prophet who speaks and what he speaks do not come to pass? You are not in any position to tell any muslim that you have a true religion. you are behaving like the jews in the time of Jesus, refusing to accept his guidance, thinking Moses was still it. they refused Jesus, thereby refused Moses without knowing it.

Where is Muhammad today? Is he not dead and buried?

of course he is dead like other previous prophets, Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc [as]. death does not diminish them? or you think so with that monotheistic religion is synanimous with Abraham, not Jesus and God according to you is God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [all of these men died], the very God Jesus said is his God, lord Who is One, the One God that Jesus worshiped all night, begging and Who has the absolute Right to answer or ignore any prayers, including what you said he did ignore from Jesus.

Why do you want to die in your sins?

so that God can forgive me. so that i humble myself and be grateful that God forgives me. so that God can ransom me. so that Muhammad [sa] can intersede for me when he make prostration to God praying the Praised Worthy.

Are you trusting in a book that tells you that God turned some Jews into rats, pigs and monkeys?

Ye. 100% trust in that Book because of turning humans into monkeys is a miracle. see both were in living state; live humans became live moneys.

Is that what you want to believe as the truth?

yes. it is absolutely unique and it is not saying God is 1 at the beginning and at the end 3 or human is God.

You cannot think crooked and walk straight.

this is crookedness: after it has been declared that God is not a man, suddenly the man Jesus is God. you want more?

Jesus said that you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus, servant of God. Jesus, Your servant who You sent. These are truth. not the laws have been nailed to the cross, a different gospel from Paul.

The choice is yours: life or death, truth or lies and your decision will determine your destiny.

all shall die.the truth is 1. it is lie that is always more than 1. in your case your lie is 3. in the case of hindus, its numerous.

@Olaadegbu:

by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:01pm On Nov 21
Anyone saying that is ignorant of the truth. The truth is that God created mankind equal and we are all equal in His eyes.

so if you see man's equality in the eyes of God when it comes to other tribes and the cause of yorubas, why not in the cause of the palestinians when it comes to the jews?

Man may want to delude himself into thinking that he is superior to his fellow

tell the israelis that. i think you have their ears right now. dont miss a chance to do good for mankind and stamp your name in the record of world's best and peace makers.

but it is up to the individuals to know their position on earth and not to allow others to define who they are apart from what God says we are.

this is exactly what the palestinians are doing which you seem to disagree with because its not the jews doing it, but against the jews. you need to be a disinterested man, otherwise people will think you are a multiple personality in your heart, being extremely evil and being a pretender of doing good while it is delusion that does not let him recognize that he is protecting evil. even Jesus did not think good of the jews.


now lets go back to walid shoebat. islam of Muhammad [sa] is existing before renaissance and others. if this islam was intended to kill all jews, the moment that Jerusalem was opened in the kalifat of Umar [ra], what would have stopped a victor from getting rid of the defeated? today, the country of Morocco has significant jewish population who even refused to accept israeli citizenship because they are better in Morocco.

Even if Islam intended to kill them off it would not have been possible. It has been like that since the beginning when the sin of the first man made the second man to kill the third man.

if Moses who was not as in your opinion as hardcore as Muhammad [sa] in killing was able to waste his people in the wilderness because they made a yahweh to be worshiped in form of golden calf, then if Islam of Muhammad [sa] was about killing, no muslims including jews would have remained in Madina. But in stead half of the jewish rabbis in Madina became muslims and at least one died in the battle of Uhud. if islam was about killing Muhammad [sa] would have ordered the death of all makkans and people of taif. if Islam was about killing, who would have stopped the blood bath of Jerusalem when she was opened in the time of Umar [ra]? sometimes, you need to think deep before responding. here are the facts; christianity in yoruba land and others including igbo land forced people to convert or remained uneducated. most families did. the hausa/fulanis refused and they were lock in darkness for a long time, the white christians and their supporters thinking that only western education is education. they needed to come to the americas during slavery where those who mastered the Quran among the slaves were the only ones who gave concerns to the slave masters. remember Kunta Kinte?

The ungodly has always been envious of the godly and it will only come to an end when the Jews finally accept our Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord.

so the jews are now the ungodly? see your delusion and myopic mindset because your bibles say salvation is of the jews. you and ignorance and the jews are perfect together.

Are the blacks in Darfur not Muslims, why are they being attacked and taken as slaves by the Muslim arabs from the north? Do the northern Muslims in Nigeria see the Yoruba or Igbo Muslims as equals?

these are evil deeds and no one says there are no evil doers among the muslims. my prayers are that man will change his ways to good and God have Mercy on man.

The reason why Israel will retaliate against the arabs in Gaza who had been shelling missiles on them since January.

among the "arabs" in Gaza are your christian brothers and sisters. I know that you are a jew in yoruba skin which is the reason you forgot christian Gazans. Maybe the people of Gaza needs a better method or just allow the jews to kill them all by starvation and other tactics including building snaked about the neighborhood walls to cut them into smaller groups for easy picking when it comes to battles in the War?

Don't pretend that the struggle of the palestinians are the struggle for freedom it is an agenda to push the Jews into the see otherwise they would have accepted the two state solution.

than God you didnt say it is a struggle for Islam or even Christianity or religion. I wonder when the idea to push the jews into the sea started and what started it, considering that they palestinians lived side by side with the jewish remnant for centuries? when the idea was first conceived why did the arabs wait until the jews became a larger population before trying to implement it? i think you have inherited the spirit of moshe dayan or mannnachin begin or comatosed ariel sharon or even benjamin natanyahu. you might as well leave yoruba land for us and drop our heritage of fairness and while you are at your delusion, drop the yoruba name, please. it is better for you to adopt a yiddish name.

You may like to think so.

i know you will have selective forgetfulness. watch your video again and see and hear the jews making the greatest laughs when Jesus and Christianity were mentioned by walid shoebat. for the record, i do not believe that shoebat was ever a muslim because of what he alluded of his mother. there is no way a person will talk ill of Muhammad [sa] or Islam that i will find good about him. i find evil in walid even knowing that he made the jews laugh about Jesus. Alhamdulillah Isa bin Maryam [as] is different.

Islam is the one teaching people to hate and not the other way round.

read your Bibles. You will find Jesus causing and hating disbelief
and disbelievers. Thats the tradition that Islam teaches by "adopting" it, actually showing that Jesus is a muslim or Islam is in line with Jesus.

That is sinful mankind for you, and for this reason Jesus came to die for our sins

Jesus didnt come for our sins and which sin exactly is that? i am not a jew and i did not see anyone black among this elects. Please tell me which of my sins he came to die for, if you are truthful. I know he didnt die or died for me since i was not here before then and all my sins are things of future in his case. folks watch how olaadegbu is going to trip and fall here.

that we may fulfil God's purpose for our lives.

whats God's purpose for our lives? Please spell it out because it will do me a world of good if i know it and you will be doing a good deed for letting me know it. I want everything. the full and complete road map including the least of the byways.

Anyone, including the Jew who hasn't given their lives to Jesus remains in darkness.

God's purpose you said above and here you are saying giving lives to Jesus. which is it? i do not want to remain in darkness. people ask olaadegbu if he fails to explain God's purpose, then giving lives to Jesus and what is about not remaining in darkness. you see that what he will do. please press him for full and complete answer. there is only one way to God is the reason i say answer. i do know that God's purpose for us is not giving our lives to Jesus. If it is, then olaadegbu needs to provide complete evidence from God, Alone. Jesus will have nothing to do with such an instruction. But God will be the only instructor commanding us. I remember reading Jesus prostrating his face to God. whats that all about? is that God's purpose for him?

Why would Muslims not treat their fellow human beings like animals since Muhammad even said it in your Qu'ran, Surah 2:65; 5:59-60; 7:166 that Allah once turned some Jews into rats and monkeys?

some is not all. why did Yahweh kill some people? why did Jehovah love some people? if evil happens to some, it is not because they did God but more likely because they did evil. not all jews were turned to animals and turning means changed from original human form. Yahweh killed the first born of people and animals in egypt. i can not understand the reason for the first born of the animals. do you know the faults of goats that lost their first born? Jehovah hated disbelievers and Jesus called some tribal people dogs. Do you know why they as dogs cant even eat the crumbs that fell from the table of their masters, the free born, the jews of Jesus time? Who is really the haters, muslims or the jews and christians from your bibles according to the examples i listed? each group and religion has the right to dislike disbelievers or even hate them if you wish to use that word. but calling humans dogs without good reasons, killing animal babies, neither sound right and logical.

This is what you believe and it thus explains why you behave the way you behave to people created in the image of God.

if you are among believing christians or jews, you are like an animal. here you have condemned me that Jesus is the one i must give my life to without you giving me an explanation. yet before you said i must obey God's purpose. i will wait until you explain what you mean in either and how they can ever merge, meaning the same or or there 2 position i must have? If i believe that you are an animal, i will not dialogue with you unless you are a cat, an animal that i love. even muslims are commanded to be kind to their animals and not abuse them. you seem to cover islam with you experience with those who are ignorant that you have been dealing with. have you heard of late Adegbite? and others, even kind hearted muslims that i have been around on nairaland? haven't you learnt not to generalize?

Now tell me who is deceived between you and the Jews?

you olaadegbu first, the zionist and maybe me. satisfied?

If anyone is not fair it is the way the world press and the UN has been reporting the incident. They are making the aggressors appear as the victims.

i remembered as a boy when my late dad [ra] went to jerusalem as part of his hajj before the 6 days war. the following year my older brother [ra] went. i have met a jew who was a guest in my home in the time of my ignorance who proudly told me that he fed pigs to muslim prisoners. whats so ironic is that elford is british. but his hatred of arabs in general and palestinians [muslims and christians and jews] specifically traged him as a young man to go fight and kill. well not all arabs and or muslims hate the jews. i sure dont because i know quite a few to be considered a friend of them on the street of new york, where some of my friends have been long bearded rabbis. i dont play victim. not all palestinians play victim. heck. truth be told, though.

Stop it C. S. Lewis. Jesus of the Bible is neither a lunatic nor the devil from hell.
however the biblical authors who lied on him may actually be both and some.

it is clear that Jesus didn't say most of what they say he said. You can say that i said its hanes just because others say i said its hanes.
What i didn't say, regardless of how anyone colors 'em, the reality is that i didn't say it, even if the proponent made it so convincing to you.

There is no yellow cake from niger republic regardless of the honesty of collin powell.

Truth is always the first and easiest victim, unless God preserves it. The preservation is in the Quran. Jesus [as] is vindicated.

"Concerning his Son Olaadegbu our leader, which was made of the seed of lamurudu according to the flesh [se.x]; And declared to be the Son of oduduwa with power, according to the spirit of culture, ethnicity, by the resurrection from the fainting, exhaustion, collapse, deep sleep" (abinubi 1:3-4).

what is the difference between the above and the below?

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:3-4).

as a yoruba man, you are identified with awolowo, lamurudu, oduduwa. or are you not?

i am sure neither awolowo, lamurudu or oduduwa has anything to do with your being here. same with Jesus and God. God is Creator. Jesus is created, like you and I.

@Usisky: God, Alone is able to do all things, with or without anyone, period.

The We, Us, Our if you read properly will always end up in the story by Allah identifying Himself in a Singular.

There is no need to include Angel and or Muhammad [sa] in the we, because the revelation is from Allah Alone and the Command is from without anyone else.

For example, when Gabriel was interacting with Mary as he is delivering the news of the impending birth of her son, Jesus [as], Mary after securing the safety of Allah against the person before her, upon her realizing that this man was a messenger from God, she addressed God directly, while Gabriel delivered the responses of God to her.

You find that in the action of Zakariah [as], just as well.


It is common in yoruba nobility and even family that a powerful like parent addresses himself before the child in the we, us, our, talking about himself alone. even husband to his wife in a way of honoring himself. a wife can say we are enough as a wife and you dont need another.

Allah is complete and there is no reason to add anyone with Him to make US, WE, or OUR of the Quran.


Using your logic, we all agreed that Allah is the ONLY Creator of Adam [as]. Allah uses "WE" in the creation of "man from nothing" in verse 67 of Surah Maryam when He says

Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

obviously in this We, you have agreed that Gabriel was not part of creation of Adam and definitely, the prophet is bani Adam [sa]. Allah is consistent.

Olaadegbu, i am going to assume that you are a yoruba. i wonder how you like it when the people on nairaland defines the yorubas as a group under or afraid of the hausa/fulani, arewa and inferior to the igbo?

i personally hate it because i know it is not true since i am certain of many factors, even factors before nigerian independence. but my not responding to the youths that continue to propagate this idea does not mean it is correct.

now lets go back to walid shoebat. islam of Muhammad [sa] is existing before renaissance and others. if this islam was intended to kill all jews, the moment that Jerusalem was opened in the kalifat of Umar [ra], what would have stopped a victor from getting rid of the defeated? today, the country of Morocco has significant jewish population who even refused to accept israeli citizenship because they are better in Morocco.

Islam does not target anyone if at all based on tribe but if for any reason, it will be faith in God. not just because you disbelief, but raising enmity and intending destruction towards islam. every people will normally defend the existence of the society that is threatened by outsiders or even within its people. america had to attach afghanistan when she declared that she wanted osama bin laden and the taliban that ruled her was not obliging his release. if you remember a taliban who was visiting the usa as foreign officer was still in the usa when the war started.

further, america even went on a preemptive strike against iraq. in essence, every people wishes to protect its integrity.


now why do you think the palestinians should be different against the jews, people who do not call themselves children of prophet Israel, Jacob [as] anymore?

you may not have noticed that the greatest applause came in the video when Jesus and christianity were mentioned in ridiculous way.


i think you are a person who thinks very lowly of yourself and i will nt be surprise that you hate yorubas, nigerians, africans and indeed blacks over believing the cause of the jews, a people who hated your man god.

i know enough of jews to know that some of them will love individuals an even group. but them as a people, their ideology does not permit anyone to be better than them the reason they call you goyum/goyim/gentile. i wish you know how they assume that you are brainless or never use your brain and inferior. not because of religion, but because they say you are not a jew by race.


how a people fight their war to exist may actually be different from how their holy book[s] instruct[s] them to conduct warfare. in all my years, i have not seen where Islam says jews are apes and monkeys or descendants of. what Quran says is that a group was turned to apes and another to monkeys because those groups disobeyed the ruling of sabbath when they fished during that time that was prohibited to do so. it was a process that they employed consistently until God punished them as He did because of deception. jews were not the only people punished in the Quran; pharaoh and his people who were africans were. Quraishis were, even Abu Lahab the uncle of the Messenger [sa] was. disbelief as in disobedience is what leads to punishment.

i read an entry davidylan once where he said all is fair in war. that your christian brother. i do not quite agree with him because war is about curtaining evil and you can win only by clear and fairness. but dont make a prisoner with an open sky prison as in west bank that is not connected to gaza strip and think i will be happy. if anyone would slice yoruba into 2 and i have to go through them to get to the other side of my yoruba bloodline, i wil be very unhappy. this will be the way i will feel if some foreign power were to slice nigeria into 2 so that from part i must go through the foreign power to get to the other part.

i may not throw stone or shoot bullets, but i will never pray for their success. my prayers always will be for their eminent failure and utter defeat.

evolution is now a certainty? i thought it is a theory, rather a hypothesis since no proofs but just a mere discussion of phantom concept? heck. what are they teaching them nowadays?

@Lagosshia:

A spouse? She was one of many. what are you trying to say? It seems along with the prophethood of Muhammad (sa) came many other "prophets" among his wives and companions for Sunnis.

wait till you are married. you will know that a spouse is truly a spouse, even if each is one of many. you seem to be of the position that if you were alive in the time of the prophet [sa] you may really discipline his wives or the wife that you see disagreeing with him. was it Ummar bin Khattab [ra] that wanted to hit his daughter [ra] the wife of the messenger, whom the messenger [sa] told no? you will be shocked how husbands protect and value their wives, even when each is one of many. The messenger [sa] said he was the best to his wives. You will be amazed at the love and eagerness to protect the integrity of a wife.


i have poor grade of morality compared to the highest that the messenger had. no person who loves me can tell me he or she hates the woman i love because of what she does to me. i am the one who should be aggrieved first, while others console me. even if i am angry, no one has the right because of that to insult my wife. nobody. thats the rule of romance. the heart of man is always attached to his woman.

Allah would not have allowed a person who will end up in hell touch the body of the messenger [sa] when he had passed. Allah would never have allowed any woman to remain his wife until his death if she was to end up being a disbeliever. Yet kept her integrity as a wife of the prophet [sa] till her death. While I am not second guessing or anything, a woman who never married after the death of her husband cant be regarded as someone to be defamed.

"Allah would not have allowed a person who will end up in hell touch the body of the messenger [sa]".

The above actually made me scream! Honestly where did you get that from? From the Quran or just plain imagination? You have prophets whose children that came from their flesh and blood who were disbelievers.

i was actually looking for a hadith where a man kissed the belly of the prophet [sa] saying that he knows that his touching the blessed skin will be a blessing and InshaAllah he will end up in paradise. the companion [ra] was to retaliate by pinching because the prophet [sa] jokingly had pinched him. When i find the hadith I will share it with you.

However, while i was searching here is what i found from Aisha [ra] talking about Fatima [ra]: from chapter 41 of the Prophet's love for Fatima

2. Aisha Bint Talha quoted Aisha as saying:

"I have not seen anyone more similar to the Messenger in speech and dialogue than Fatima. Whenever she entered the house, he would greet her, kiss her hands and ask her to sit near him. Likewise, when he entered the house, she would greet him, kiss his hands and etc....."

I guess Aisha zaujati Rasulullah is not a bad wife, step mother, after all.

Besides,no one here have sent Aisha to hell.

i am sure it was before your time when the ambassador of iran to the un spit on the companions [ra] of the messenger [sa] at the grave site. the same people who Allah used their presence to further the cause of Islam.

the issue is not going to hell.it is examining the facts and concluding that Aisha was not a role model for Muslim women today.

i wonder if you are saying the Messenger [sa] did not know how to choose spouses or wrong for choosing her and Hafsa [ra] or worse Allah didnt give the messenger [sa] the right spouses in the 2 women? May Allah forgive us all because everything in Islam in its formative years, until completed was part of developing it and example for us of later generations. I have my own Aisha so to speak. She is younger than me. and i like her spunk. i am certain there is no woman around today as good and definitely better than the wives of the messenger [sa].

examine the facts and her actions.from her fabricated 9 year old marriage (she was evidently older when the Prophet married her),to the publicity she was the only virgin wife of the Prophet (sa) and to the false idea she was the "favorite wife"-while her own words clearly shows she wasn't the favorite-are all campaign to cover her ill-actions and give her more solid credit than she deserves.

you seem to have a personal vendetta. why i dont know. every muslim should pray for another muslim, especially those are dead and the spouses of the messenger [sa] deserve our since prayers. they were the first generation of believers. you will not argue that she was not a virgin or that she was not loved? you and I agree on the 9 years old thing and it is not her that stated it because clearly all that she said pointed to matured woman and definitely already reached puberty.

why don't Sunnis on friday sermon talk about the battle of Jamal and how she went against the will of the Prophet (sa),after his death,to battle?

if what the prophet [sa] was not fulfilled, some may wanna use it as evidence against the prophetic office. as bad as it sound from your lips, i see a ray of goodness and my heart is at peace. after all, Ali bin Abitalib [r] never curse or abuse her. Take the position of that man if truly you are following him.

Why don't they tell us about Surat Tahreem? Isn't that part of the Quran? We can also learn from the wrong actions of others so we don't repeat them.why don't they tell us how she tried to jeopardize the reign of Imam Ali (as) and unjustly declared a destructive war on him?

do you read surah Abasa because i read it and surah Tahreem. there was no verse saying the prophet stopped frowning because it was not an issue at all. so there was no need for a verse to say Aisha and Hafsa [ra] are now forgiven, because Allah says; oh you who believe protect yourself and your family memebers from hellfire whose fuels are stone and mankind. After that verse, the wives of the prophet [sa] were still his wives [ra] until they themselves were dead.

It is Sunnis who have gone ahead to give her a free ticket and visa to paradise.just for being a wife of the Prophet (sa) have blinded them from reality and prevents them from examining all that happened.

while i am not a sunni or shia, i am hoping that the shia are not bent on derailing that effort of fellow muslim group? Is the wife of the best of mankind worthy of our prayers and best wishes?

this is either some sort of a corrupt plan to give merits and forget the other side,or simply wrong and devoid of reality.

i have seen many people who argued that Azar is not the name of the father of prophet Ibrahim [as]. i think you are talking of that type of corruption from those who say that was his father's name because thats what is in the Quran.


My brother lagosshia. i was not actually responding to you until you drag me into this. but this is my last response and my position is clear. May Allah guide us all and unite our hearts on the straight path. Amin.

@wiegraf: here is your ignorance before you break a gasket.

deols asked if the victory of the israelis [jews if it pleases your mind] means the happiness of the christians [nigerian christians if you wish]. reason is, is that the christians believe that they are actually very close to what their bibles want them to do in everything, even when they err because Jesus blood will cover the erring.

but that is not always the case with the muslims. the muslims know when they are far off the perfected path. so they ask for forgiveness, individually and often collectively, one and or some praying for the other or others. if your headache is boko haram since you seem to be narrow minded, it is also my headache and i dont even think i will be affected by their evil deeds, InshaAllah.

oh. learn civility and stop steaming up my glasses. you are behaving like hitler. heck. you crop a name almost from the black forest region.

i guess sunkoye wants us to scrap mark, luke and matthew, but t just use john.

1 of 4 is not a passing mark.

@Nakash:

by nakash: 7:45pm On Nov 17
A little googling would have saved me the pain of reading your post. First Allah is not Yahweh so the question of God and Allah having anything in common does not arise. Secondly islam means admitting that allah the arabic moon god is a god and that muhammad is his last prophet means you become a muslim. Thirdly a lot of info is available on islam on the net. It was a religion created by muhammad who had allah to help him achieve his intimate delusions. Now stop being lazy.

second. Yahweh is not Olorun [if you are not yoruba, ask seyibrown to tell you Who is Olorun], so the question of God [since we are communicating in english] and Yahweh having anything in common does not arise. the other issue is that christianity is actually worshiping Jesus the son god, Holy Ghost and Yahweh, the trinity gods definitely similar to the multiple gods of the hindus wherein krishna may be a god or son of god.


what nakash fails to see though is that the last means there is at least one before and none after. Islam was around long before Muhammad [sa] if we stick with its simple definition of submission to Allah The Almighty. Let think about the time of Noah. There was no jewish wall to wail on and there was no Jesus to say in the name of Jesus about. This simply means there was no Judaism and there was no Christianity. Islam says all prophets were muslims and we can not but acknowledge that each of them submitted to their God, Who is always 1, definitely minus ghost and Jesus. Even Jesus didnt submit or worship Jesus buy God Who was always never on earth but heaven [i say above heavens].


If intimacy is the drawback of prophet-hood, what happened to Abraham, Jacob, David and Solomon the wise, just to name a few of biblical prophets? were they not prophets, nakash, the deluded soul? Carry go for my presence, the guy who doesnt think at all at all [dont let break out in fela ransome kute and his kulalobito on you o].



@seyibrown:

by seyibrown(f): 1:43am
bolayei: was Jesus referring to being a muslim when he said "unless a man is born again he will not enter the kingdom of God"?

No, he was not. Following your logic, all born into muslim homes then need to convert to another religion to become 'born-again'.

you have no idea what Jesus meant. you were not a follower of Jesus in truth. if you believe what Jesus said, past prophets and their laws would be present in your life. You would have been curious about who the That Prophet, the another comforter was that could have easily led you into Islam where you will find solutions to all things that you will never find from the words of Jesus because he didnt tell the disciples everything. Being born again is simply making conscious decision to worship God in the way He lays it out for man. I wonder where God says you must clap, dance, sing and say in the name of Jesus as worship?

Yes, it does. Doing this will mean departing from all iniquity, loving God and loving your neighbour (as Jesus reminded us in Matthew 22:37-40).

Only God knows what is iniquity at anytime, just like He knows when idolatry is committed. For example, Jacob prostrated his face to Joseph and that was not idolatry, but prostrating your face to Jesus for example is idolatry. Samson committed suicide and mass murder and that may not be iniquity, but the suicide bombers are definitely committing iniquity. Moses and Joshua killed nations for example and definitely not iniquity. But Hitler killing people was definitely iniquity. How is similar act not iniquity? The answer is that God sanctioned it by commanding it. Note that neither Moses nor Joshua killed believers, but disbelievers. Muhammad [sa] the one you declared your enemy was mild compared to either of these two men of God [not the adegboye kind, but true men of God].

bolayei: Does islam mean the same thing except in their own religion dont use the word God but ALLAH because of translation not to associate another name with ALLAH?

No, Islam does not mean the same thing. Islam has shown to the world that it does not love its neighbours, and it supports it's actions as being authorised by the Quran. If you love your neighbours, you don't bomb or kill them or incite others to do so.

you argue with a simple mind of deception. here i am and i have never met you and i have shown that i like you even love you as a person without any string attached or selfish reason, except that i want the best for you on the day of Judgment. i have not ordered for any harm to reach you and i have been muslim all my life. the best part of my action is islamic based. so tell me how do you come to this your conclusion when i can simply show you how christians and others have harmed people in general?

bolayei: How comes you cant be a muslim if you dont believe in Jesus?

If muslims believed in Jesus, they will follow his commandments. If you believe in Jesus, you will not follow the commandments that are not in line with Jesus' teachings.

if you think the commandment and or teachings of Jesus are actually in the gospels and from the writing of Paul, there lies your mistake. Moses commanded. Jesus followed the commandment of Moses. Jesus said you should do the same and you seyi refused and you are here lecturing us. what right do you have to make any suggestion when you refused the past, present and future of Jesus. You dont obey the parts of Moses, the part of facial prostration of night prayers of Jesus [what were the elements and what were said in the prayers] and the following of the another comforter.

John 14:12-15 - King James Version (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It is one thing to say 'I believe in Jesus'; It is another to 'believe in Jesus'. Those who believe in Jesus walk in his way.
[John 14:6 - New International Version (NIV)[/b]
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

i importance of these verses were 25% because 75% of gospel writers disregarded them. In essence, John made them up because no single gospel writer forgot that Jesus was tortured. Seyi, I hope that the poor christians have asked for wealth in Jesus name and they have remained poor while a shinto from Japan became extremely wealthy. Who was the way to God in the time of Abraham or there was no way to God, the God of Abraham?

No servant can serve two masters whose ways are totally opposite to each other!

The way of Yahweh is different from the way of Jesus. According to you, Jesus wanted to live. But Yahweh wanted him dead because he must sacrifice him. Which of the two masters with opposite ways do you love and which one do you hate?

He will hate one and love the other! He will be loyal to one of them only, if he were to be true to himself.

so where is your loyalty? I must have an answer since you telling us you are bold.

Mohammed and Jesus each teach a different way to God and to live!

neither of them was a master, but God is their Master. 2 servants at different times may have common theme of message but different styles of deliveries. Example, Moses and Jesus of the Bibles. seyi, chew on that for a moment.

It is impossible to hold on to both unless one were an hypocrite.

hypocrisy is half commitment or pretending commitment. so when a person says he if holding on to Jesus of the Bible and refuses to even acknowledge Moses that Jesus acknowledged, thats hypocrisy. When the same person refuses to prostrate her face to God as Jesus did, thats hypocrisy. When that person refuses to follow the another comforter who taught to all things, thats hypocrisy. seyi, what are you? we in Islam say that what is necessary about Moses, Jesus are in the Quran that we struggle to follow. i not imagine that Jesus will say God is 1 in the tradition of Moses and then says He is 3 in the tradition of Paul.

When Muslims say they believe in Jesus, they are merely paying lip-service (or are genuinely mis-guided, not knowing that their teachings differ) because they claim to love Jesus but do not follow Jesus commandments and instead follow Mohammed's.

Thank God that Jesus was not a christian so i dont have to be a christian. Thank God that Jesus was not God, so I worship Who Jesus worshiped. Seyi, whats the commandment of Jesus that I must follow when God say He God is God and Lord of all and He is 1 and indivisible? Even America says she is indivisible. How do i opt for what God does not command?

Same goes for a christian who claims to believe in Mohmammed.

you people dont even believe in Moses in your Bibles, so Muhammad [sa] is a stretch.

Some of the neck always goes with head.

make a cleaner cut. you should know where the head begins which is where the neck ends. is like succession of prophets with the last being Muhammad [sa].

@Lagosshia: May Allah keep us on His Path. Amin.

I am a firm believer that the best of the best was Muhammad [sa] and Allah would not make him remain till the end of his life with a spouse that is a hypocrite or an outright disbeliever. No sir, because Allah loves Muhammad [sa] the most and He corrected all that may be a thing of impurity in his life: those of his blood that were disbelievers, like Abu Lahab and his wife were made never to receive guidance.

Allah would not have allowed a person who will end up in hell touch the body of the messenger [sa] when he had passed. Allah would never have allowed any woman to remain his wife until his death if she was to end up being a disbeliever. Yet kept her integrity as a wife of the prophet [sa] till her death. While I am not second guessing or anything, a woman who never married after the death of her husband cant be regarded as someone to be defamed.

While other prophets [as] had wives and even offspring that were disbelievers, Allah did not let either happened to the prophet [sa].



Again, if my wife did not offend anyone, if I learned somebody took up enmity against her, watch out. The enemy of my wife is clearly on the way to being my enemy if not already.

passed on is what was said because he was the last, not all are dead. for example enoch who is Idris [as] didn't die on earth, but lifted, elevated to the 4th heaven, whereas Jesus and John are lodged in 2nd heaven above Adam [as] our father in the 1st heaven. in the bible elijah was lifted up or did you read in your bibles that each prophet died? i would wonder what the chariot of fire and the prophet in it going up was all about?

when Allah says in chapter 4 that Jesus was not crucified or killed, that verse is sufficient to indicate that passing away of Jesus is not dying of Jesus on earth, definitely, not by crucifixion.


death is mawt. and in the verse mmata was used for die in the "to die/kill".

passed on is qablihi

@Wiegraf: What is the meaning of Kaffir?
Do you know I am a Kaffir to a Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc and yes, Atheist?

@paris love: please dont let the love of paris and the attitude sarkozy cloud your judgment

even when you take 66/4, 5 into account, Allah has shown Mercy on the wives [ra] of the messenger [sa] by warning and pointing out their fault at that time. verse 66/6 clearly shows that there is Mercy open to them since they were part of the family at that time

O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.

, even till the end of the life of the beloved noble and holy prophet [sa].

Allah says the wives are unlike any woman/women. The messenger [sa] would have not have been allowed to spend his life, even dying as husband of disbelievers and or hypocrites.

Allah stated that He Himself is not shy. There is no reason that Allah would not clearly condemn and reject and sack from the home of His Beloved evil spouses. Allah warned and warning is Mercy. Allah condemned the wives of Noah and Lot and let the husbands know the end of these women, including the son of Lot who Allah severed from the family of prophet Lot [as].

Those who Allah have had Mercy on does not mean they could not err. When Allah warns them you know He has not closed the Door of Mercy and the fact that these wives [ra] were in the house of the messenger [sa] is a sign and may Allah give the Muslims knowledge of wisdom and you paris love to receive guidance before death. Amin.

@paris love: 3 verse 144 does not imply that Jesus had died. even in your Bible, a prophet was taken up alive to heaven without dying on this earth. is that prophet in your Bible more beloved to Jehovah, considering that Jesus begged for his life?

i dont see a verse in the Bible that the one taken up alive begged not to die.
if Jehovah gave the prophet of the chariot of fire life, instead of death without begging for life, but allowed death to come to Jesus after he begged for life, there is something wrong.

But the fact that Jesus was rejected in his prayer shows that he was not a prophet of God, based on the litmus in the Bible that when a prophet speaks and it does not come to pass, then he is not from God.


Paris love you have to make up your mind; is Jesus from God or not? if his prayer was not answered he is not from God according to the Bible. if his prophesy is not fulfilled as when he said he will return in the lifetime of the disciples, he is not from God according to the Bible. if he says he will spend 3 nights and 3 days in the belly of the earth and he only spent 2 night and 1 day in a cave, then he was not from God according to the Bible. You have a big problem, buddy.

people need to ignore logicboy03 and all his monikers when treating serious topics. the fisherman thinks with his elbows, always.

if islam at the beginning was all arabs, i wonder how the poor and slaves were good portion of it, so much so that the wealthy and powerful among the makkans refused the religion just because they did not want to be brothers of the underclass thereby losing their influences and power?

there is no place in the Quran that God condemned a person or people except on faith, alone. the hadith of the messenger [sa] by deols is sufficient for anyone who uses his brain to realize that racism or anything installed by humans to stratify people is frowned upon and not acceptable.

and as to maclatunji, no one needs to force him to do anything against his will, his conscience. not everyone agrees with him. i am one of those. but i am not going to open a thread to as him to do anything because as i see it, the ownership of nl agrees with him. his action as moderator does not in my own opinion has no adverse effect on his islam.

islam is an advise towards good. when people lie against islam, how can muslim support a liar or his lie? and before the Quran spoke about the descendants of Abraham [arabs [islamic religion is being regarded as hagarite religion because of Hagar, the mother of Ishmael] and jews], it spoke about the descendants of Noah,to mean all of us because our second common father was Noah, while Adam was the first.

even Jesus. somebody is playing him in miami. the guy is preaching Paul's Gospel,already.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htj1P_8tk4Q&feature=related

@honeychild; if you are arguing that your bible is pure, then tell us the name, version and revision and or edition you are taking as pure? while you are making your choice, purse for a moment and reflect upon the other bibles you have rendered impure. tell us your reason of choice and your reason of rejection of the others. afterall, somebody will say what you rejected, one of them is his own pure bible while rejecting your pure as corrupted. if you are a catholic, the protestant bibles are incomplete. if you are a coptic, other bibles are not what you consider as bible in its purity. if you are an ethiopian christian, your bible is completely different. should i also mention the mormons, the 7th day adventists, the jehovah's witnesses among others, including the eastern orthodox groups; russians, greeks, etc? you see the kind of problem you are facing from your own book and groups that claim to have 100% authority of ownership?

as for those who you said doubted Muhammad [sa] to confirm with the books revealed before him, such a statement was not from Muhammad [sa]. if you know where it is in the hadith, then let me know. something that you might meant is what is from Allah in the Quran, mentioning a particular story that if Muhammad [sa] were to be in doubt of it, he should ask the people who had received revelations before the Quran in Madina about the story, not about the revelations and or stories in the Quran in general. What you failed to pay attention to in that very verse of the Quran is what did Muhammad [sa] do after the verse was revealed?

Muhammad [sa] didn't have any doubt and it was not reported that he went to ask the jews and or the christians in Madina. His case was even clearer in faith than Ibrahim's asking so that his heart is assured about how Allah makes living from death. Muhammad [sa] was told to have consciousness of Allah. Allah knows that he had the most consciousness about Him. This type of statements by Allah to His beloved Messenger [sa] helps the muslims to be humble and not be so puffed up, but express humility because God has guided us.

if you pay attention to hadith, there are fabricated, weak, to authentic hadith. such a hadith that expresses that any part of Quran is lost is absolutely fabricated, because Allah says in the Quran that He Personally shall safeguard the Purity and completeness of The Quran. if we go out of the Quran to examine the possibility of what you said the hadith have said about a portion of the Quran being lost because of death of most of those who have memorized it, it does not change the purity of what was finally compiled. if the Quran was not compiled, the community as a whole had it in them what is complete Quran. Quran is an oral document, a recitation.


however, since your concern is about what happened after the death of so many reciters, what remained of reciters and the rest of the community is that the community was forward thinking to safeguard the purity of the Quran, by the Mercy and Wisdom of Allah over them, so much so that they organized the "Book", The Quran as a single bonded document. the throughout the two compilation, the first as a single Book, the second as Books from the first Book, many with complete memorization were alive, you will then understand that the hadith is false, fabricated and weak. such a person who memorized the whole Quran was Ali bin Abitalib [ra], the 4th kalifah, while the last compilation was under the authority of the 3rd Kalifah, and the first compilation was under the 1st kalifah, just years after the death of the holy prophet [sa].


The first compilation was done using 5 manuscripts dictated by the prophet to the scribes along with reciters and the whole community acting as a double assurance or witness on each verse. it was after the 2nd compilation which used the first, the 5 manuscripts and reciters and the whole community in the way they were used in the 1st that you had the manuscripts burnt since what is available now is the standard and original of the original.

@Honeychild: what you have said about the Bibles is that there is no single language and prophet it was revealed, originally. but have you seen a single original bible in your entire life or have you known a person who have seen one or heard that anyone have seen one? if not, then know that what you have, ever, always is not the original because the earlier generations, probably as early as the generation of Paul lost the Bible be entering fallacious materials into the original; changing words and ideas and adding their own concepts and deleting the truth and of course the truth is no no more truelad

and as to when did you lose the original and it became corrupted or distorted, you can look at the bibles as see many dimensions that one can argue from; if you simple rely on the text, you will see Jeremiah telling us that the OT was corrupted by the scribes when they use their pen. if you look at NT, the mere disagreements of the 4 gospels and the lack of the gospel of Jesus is enough. but then we see what Paul added in materials which included his own "opinion" that no one told him.

in all, the Bibles being so many versions disagree with one another and since the disagreement continues just as version and revision till the end of time, you may need to ask yourself, when was there an original Bible? i am glad that this is the case with the Bibles because of many angles to it; the first is that proves Muhammad [sa] as a truth teller if you take the position that it was already corrupted before his arrival to the prophetic office. if you take that the corruption entered after the Quran, you also have to agree that he was a man of vision. but in both cases, Muhammad [sa] never said he was using hi own initiative, but that it was Revelation from God, so the corrupted Bibles proved that Muhammad [sa] was a prophet, prophesying correctly what the condition of Bible shall be. We have to agree that this was the sign of who is a prophet, the that prophet, the another comforter that must come after Jesus.

in less important but quite noteworthy is the fact that muslims can boldly dialogue with you by letting you know that as a christian, you will not agree with every bibles in print. this clearly shows that your position will be different from the position of every bibles. some you will definitely disagree with by ideas and or by even the books and textual contents.

@honeychild:

by honeychild(f): 5:34pm On Nov 16
@sweetnecta:
No, I do not speak Arabic. I do not know the Arabic word for death. But I do have English translations of the Quran, which I presume must have been made by Muslims who understand Arabic. Here are a few. I was quite amazed that there were so many different translations of the Quran!! Because as I recall n the past, that was another favouritre allegation the Muslims leveled against the Bible! Like I said earlier, thank b€god for /Googler:

If you ask any muslim, he will tell you that Quran is in Arabic. Okay. if you ask a muslim, he will tell you that the Quran in Arabic is the Quran or at least the original Quran.

Do you have the same when it comes to the Bibles? Have you seen any original Bible? What Language is it in? Who was the original Bible revealed to? In the case of the Quran, we use the original to pray, even learning how to read it. You do not have any of these about the Bible. While every muslim must have seen an Original Quran and even able to recite something from it, you do not have this luxury when it comes to the Bible.

Finally, not all "Translation" is by Muslims which is the reason you may see the word "infidel" in stead of disbeliever.