budaatum:


Typical believer of you to want to judge beliefs instead of judging understanding!

In your own Bible, it is written that humans should not live by bread alone, yet here you are asking me to live by one book. And even your own one book, you seem to fail to understand!

Would your God create you, TenQ, in God's own image to be fruitful and rule and and subdue and multiply and eat every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it, then rest on 5he sixth day after seeing all it created was good, and them wake up on the eight day after resting on the seventh to create you from mud to work naked in a tiny garden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

How are you supposed to 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground' if you do not nourish yourself with fruits of knowledge?

Do you think those who came to rule and subdue you and teach you to believe you descended from Adam did not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge before they came to enslave you?

My standard is your ability to use your own mind to reason, but I'm aware how powerful that which is called Satan is.

Except you are willing to state clearly that you have no objective standard by which you form your opinion, my question was easy

What is YOUR own standard by which I can measure your beliefs against it?

Do you think that whatever you think is a standard I should judge your beliefs by!?

budaatum:


Put "when did the universe begin" into Google, and you'd get "The Big Bang Theory suggests that the universe began about 13.8 billion years ago".

Hopefully you are not ignorant enough to accept a "suggestion" as fact, though, you being a believer would not surprise me in the least since you can help but believe something

No one knows how the universe began, or what existed before its current form started. And I suggest you stop treating those "scientists who are far much more brilliant than 10 of us combined" like the only prophets of the gods.

It seems you disagree with this claim of the universe being about 13.8 billion years old, therefore

Interestingly, the argument for such a claim makes sense to me from my little knowledge.

Can you please give me your own sources estimate and why!

budaatum:


13.8 billion years ago?

You must want me to lie to you, but I refuse.

Google is your friend except you are adverse to knowing

ConDawah:

Our job as the latter days believers is to expose the deceit of the devil (Islam) and I believe reasonable people among them shall be saved.

Exactly!
And I pray that God release the Grace that we might be effective in this work of the ministry in Jesus mighty Name.

Have a beautiful night rest Bro!

budaatum:


My source is your Holy Bible.

Read it and show me where Adam died from eating a fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil!

And while you are scrutinising it, kindly show me your source for not believing in loving your neighbour just because they read a different book to your own. Or is it that you believe but do not need to practise?

Sorry, please give me YOUR source of knowledge.
You know that
The source of Christians is their Bible
The source of Muslims is their Qur'an, Hadiths , Tafsirs and Sirah
Even traditional worshippers have their narrative, chants and poetries

What is YOUR own standard by which I can measure your beliefs?



Do you think that whatever you think is a standard I should judge your beliefs by!?

budaatum:


Think just a little. You don't know what existed 100,000 years ago, but you are here confidently claiming to know nothing existed 13.8 billion years ago?

Even science does not make such a stupid claim, and recognises something must have existed for something to go bang!

Tell me that science is wrong because these I obtained from scientists who are far much more brilliant than 10 of us combined.

Just tell me that it is UNTRUE according to science that the universe began about 13.8billion years ago, then I will surrender as there will be no point continuing any further discussions

ConDawah:

It's not a surprise that the religion's primary purpose is attacking the only hope of salvation for mankind (The atonement of sin by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).
This epidemy has been sustained till now only by deception and outright perversion of truth and making sure the teeming followers are kept ignorant of the real face of the religion. If all these fail, they resort to coercion. No wonder the penalty for apostasy is death in Islam.
These people literally pray towards are black stone in Mecca and kiss it when they go there on pilgrimage, but somehow still convinced they're worshipping the God of Abraham?
If time permits, I'll create threads to address the absurdities in this religion to open the eyes of those who are blindly following.

Jesus described the situation perfectly

John 3:19:
"And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."

This person coming in his own name is obviously Mohammed
John 5:43:
"I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive."

Muslims normally first come with deceit:
1. Claim to come in peace
2. Claim that we serve the same God
3. Claim that we share many of the same prophets
4. Claim that they believe in our scriptures as well as theirs
5. Claim that they believe in All the earlier prophets sent it us Christians and Jews. In particular, they love Mary and Jesus
6. Claim that all the earlier prophets were Muslims
7. Claim that Mohammed is the final prophet when has come to correct the deviations from the true religion of Islam

But what they ultimately want to do is to steal , kill and destroy the faith of Christians by replacing the Original with Counterfeits!

budaatum:


Scripture and the Quran both tell you to read much more widely, and I'd suggest you obey one at least instead of merely believing what you refuse to practice.

Anyone can say anything or have opinions about anything. Thus, I ask for your source and authority for your position.

Don't you want me to scrutinize it?

I want to be able to quote your source and see if you are consistent with what you claim

budaatum:


The human mind did not come out of nothing, TenQ. You'd know this if you went and studied some history and biology instead of living by one book alone.

Even those who sold you that book are moving on, but here you are, stuck, sadly.

My little science tells me that time, mass, energy and the laws of physics,and chemistry came after the 13.8 billion years ago

Therefore, prior to this time NOTHING existed.

Thus, if there is no Uncaused First-Cause of everything, the conclusion is that everything including the chemicals that made up biological beings came out of NOTHING!

By the way, you should be able to tell us how life with it's information came about.


I am waiting!
Show us how
The Human mind and EVERYTHING else came out of NOTHING!?

AntiisIam:


Oh my God

Just imagine how they find it convenient to read what doesn't exist into the plain text of the hadith.

I read it again and ai wonder where they saw it that the Babygirl would not go to hell.

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

budaatum:


Do you seriously believe your imaginary Uncaused First Cause of everything is uncaused by something?

I don't, because I happen to know the human mind is capable of causing a lot of causes, even imaginary ones like hell and gods.

The Human mind and EVERYTHING else came out of NOTHING!?

How do you know this wonderful information?

budaatum:


What is my hadith? Lol.

Genesis 1 to 5 is mythological. The story itself shows it is made up mythology since no one could have possibly been there recording what happened and nor did God write it since its not in the first person.

That mythical Adam himself in the story was lied to is also obvious from the fictional story since he did not die on eating the fruit that was claimed would kill him. And that's apart from numerous verses in the same book that show that it is the opposite of knowledge that kills.

As for how I know, that's by doing what Christ taught, ask and knock and seek with ones whole heart and soul and mind and being. Its called, research. You don't only acquire knowledge if you do as he taught, but also understanding and eventually, wisdom.

Sorry!
Since you do not practice either Judaism, Christianity or Islam, you need to present your source of knowledge that counters what you read in the scripture.

Is your source your feeling?

AntiisIam:


If you don't hide under surat tafsir you go hide under surat comprehension kilode gan self

Later they will come out to tell us that it was the Jews that wrote the hadith and Tafsir.

SMH!!

budaatum:


My understanding of the hadith is that it is the same nonsense as me telling kids that Father Christmas would not bring them presents if they continue to be naughty. And I'd consider those kids rather stupid and ignorant if when they become grown ups do not realise it was just a tool to control them.

Both Father Christmas and hell do not exist, and I'd expect you to put away such childish beliefs eventually. But if you do become an adult and start arguing about presents from father Christmas, I'm bound to form a particular opinion about the non-development of your mind.

So you agree that the hadith says that both the mother and the buried baby will go to hell?
OR
Only the mother and the one who buried the child will go to hell?



Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

budaatum:


Listen to you being Islamically asking for an hadith, lol, even after Christianity has taught you to be ministered to by a holy spirit.

It is a lie that Adam's eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would kill him because in their very own book we can clearly see that he did not die after eating it!

A person who chooses to use their own brain would understand that depriving people of knowledge as that story suggests, would only make those deprived people slaves to those who do not deprive themselves of knowledge. After all, some in that same story must have been eating the fruit that Adam was farming but was forbidden to eat. Or are you one of those who have been made to believe that the Adam that was made from mud is the same creation in God's Image?

Thankfully, the story also shows how to free oneself from the ignorance of slavery and go on to live about a 1000 years and populate the entire earth.

The entire story is mythical, as in made up and never happened, but one must be aware of its potential to program your mind so your mind is not adversely programmed.

I ask again, what is your source?

How do you know that Judaism told a lie? How do you know who Adam was?

What is your own source of evidence?

RealLordZeus:

This made me realise he's a kid just throwing tantrums
Unlike the general view, I don't have any issues questioning our beliefs.
By questioning, you either derail or grow stronger.

God gave us free will and the grey matter between our skulls for a purpose and its a sin not to utilise it.

I welcome every enlightening debates not stereotypes trying to force their view or insult peoples faith based on their own perception.
And when you attack their faith, it will falter under scrutiny
His verse of truth, I requested for like 10 posts up he's yet to reply.

It's amazing when the pillars of your faith is written by unknown authors without any straight line to the source.

I have asked you a simple question but your love for self deception would not allow you answer it.

Again:


Why where you afraid to translate the phrase and answer my question
What is the الْمَوْءُودَةُ (Al-maw’ūdatu)


Does it mean
1. The girl who was buried
OR
2. The midwife who buried her


By the way, the phrase in contention is
"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

budaatum:


Sorry TenQ, but from where I am looking, you are practising your own private understanding of Islam while insisting you are not allowed or that the understanding you have adopted is the only understanding allowed.

You have after all come across various hadiths by various people that contradict each other and therefore show private interpretation is very much done in Islam, and that's apart from the various diverse interpretations presented to you here. You're even likely aware that there are various different sects of Islam too, which is clear evidence of private interpretation. Or would you like to argue that the boko haram interpretation is accepted by all Muslims?

I have not said anything different from what their hadiths say
BUT
They disagree




So, interpret the hadith below

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators



What is your understanding of this Hadith?
Is it that Babies will not go to Hell for being buried alive?

budaatum:


You must forgive buda for having a brain in head that knowing how to use it instead of letting ignorant others tell buda what is.

The pagan that one wants to convert from pre-Islamic non-muslim Arab and burying their daughters to Islam and not burying their daughters will be threatened with their daughter going to hell.

Judaism used the same tactic in making Adam ignorant and docile by lying to him that he would surely die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And that same reasoning is still being used today to keep Nigerians backward and servile.

How do you know that Judaism told a lie? How do you know who Adam was?

What is your own source of evidence?

budaatum:


The lie is believing there is a hell that anyone goes to when you know the dead are put in a box and put in the ground and covered with soil where they rot and become worm food or are burnt and become ashes.

Unfortunately, the Muslims I am addressing know that Hell exists.

To you who thinks that the Uncaused First Cause of everything aka God doesn't exist, what lie and deception can be greater than this?

gaskiyamagana:

Another christianized Hadith. Sorry for those who were your comrades in this misguided and misleading mission. This is nothing but fake from fake source by fake evangelist for fake followers in NL.

Are you saying that Sunan Abi Dawud 4717 is fake!?

Tell me what is fake in this Hadith



Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?



It's just two questions.

budaatum:


You must forgive buda for having a brain in head that knowing how to use it instead of letting ignorant others tell buda what is.

The pagan that one wants to convert from pre-Islamic non-muslim Arab and burying their daughters to Islam and not burying their daughters will be threatened with their daughter going to hell.

Judaism used the same tactic in making Adam ignorant and docile by lying to him that he would surely die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And that same reasoning is still being used today to keep Nigerians backward and servile.

But no Muslim here (knowledgeable or not) is taking your line of argument because it is untrue according to their scholars: are you now a Muslim?

Better still, can you justify your position with either a Fatwah or a Tafsir.

BTW: It seems you don't know that private interpretation of the Qur'an or Hadith is not allowed in Islam

jaephoenix:

Its interesting a religion that believes in original sin and that all has sinned and doesn't deserve to live unless they accept Jesus ,has issues with Muslims
You believe a newborn is sinful due to the sin of Adam that supposedly happened more than 2000 years ago yet you have a problem about Muslims having the same belief as yours

Half knowledge destroys
Who told you that a baby is sinful?

Mat 18:3:
"And said, Truly I say to you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Mat 19:14:
"But Jesus said, Allow the little children to come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of Heaven."


Since you have come out as a devils advocate, you might try to help the Muslims with the hadith


Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?



It's just two questions.

budaatum:

This, is precisely why you threaten people with hell. Its in order to convert them from pre-Islamic non-muslim Arabs and burying their daughters, to Islam and not burying their daughters.

Unfortunately Buda cannot cry more than the berived: not one Muslim have taken your position except you are more knowledgeable about Islam than Antichristian and RealLordZeus.

Again: Only a Muslim can be remotely worried or concerned about her child going to paradise or hell.
The case is logically simple
1. If you are a Muslim, you wouldn't even contemplate burying your child
2. A pagan Arab would not be threatened with her daughter going to hell
3. All Muslims are going to Hell anyways according to Allah in the Qur'an
Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord
Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave others in the Fire

budaatum:

Judaism did the same thing in telling people to obey the ten commandments or they'd burn in hell, and Christianity took this on too by threatening those who didn't accept Christ with hell and damnation.

No sir!
Judaism doesn't teach about heaven or hell.

budaatum:

Its a religious thing to use the fear of something to threaten people to accept it, but since no pre-Islamic non-muslim is burying their daughter theses days, that's not exactly effective no more, though some Christians do still use some form of hell scaremongering where abortion is concerned.

Unfortunately, the knowledgeable Muslims who have responded seem not to tow your line of argument.

Instead, they are saying that the hadith was not condemning the baby to hell BUT the person who buried the baby.

This should make sense except that , this isn't what the hadith said. The hadith clearly stated that BOTH the mother and the buried baby will go to hell.

RealLordZeus:


I already gave you your answer, you only need to allow your brain to read ..
I know you will be lazy to visit the website, thats why I brought the excerpt here.

Also stop masturbating on the topic as if you discovered gold, the topic has been raised several times by similar people like you and they were all cured of their ignorance.

A simple Google search will also cure yours too.
Btw, you stylishly avoided your unknown authors books

Why do you insist on believing a LIE even when you know fully well that your scholars are telling blatant easily refutable lies.

Why where you afraid to translate the phrase and answer my question
What is the الْمَوْءُودَةُ (Al-maw’ūdatu)


Does it mean
1. The girl who was buried
OR
2. The midwife who buried her


By the way, the phrase in contention is
"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

ConDawah:

They actually need prayer against the stronghold of satanic deception.
How in the name of common sense, someone will read the Quran and still remain a Muslim is beyond me.

The reason is because the Allah of the Muslims is satan himself and Mohammed is one of the greatest Antichrists of all times. Islam is primarily anti-salvation in Christ.

Thus
YHWH is replaced by the Al-Makr
Jesus is replaced by Mohammed
The Holy Spirit is replaced with Jibril

And droves are going to hell oblivious of the pit of 419 they have fallen into.
The

ConDawah:

All Muslims are going to hell anyways (Surah 19 verses 71-72)

Of course, but the Prince of this world has sealed their hearts against the truth and blinded their eyes to see until it is too late for repentance.

Please, pray for Muslims. The clutch of their snare of bondage is a strong one.

RealLordZeus:

Read what you quoted slowly..

You are the one not reading.

Why are you afraid to answer my question
What is the الْمَوْءُودَةُ (Al-maw’ūdatu)


Does it mean
1. The girl who was buried
OR
2. The midwife who buried her


By the way, the phrase in contention is
"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

RealLordZeus:
In case you are lazy

It seems someone is speaking the untruth

What is the الْمَوْءُودَةُ (Al-maw’ūdatu)


Does it mean
1. The girl who was buried
OR
2. The midwife who buried her

RealLordZeus:


Oga rest..
The AntiChristian guy is correct although I do not agree with most of his method... I mean why would I name my moniker AntiChristian
Read the below
https://www.abuaminaelias.com/baby-girl-buried-alive-in-hell/
The topic has already been raised by thumper like you and trashed out

Also, the matter of discourse is that Hadith, and I found it laughable you quoting text from unknown writers.

At least, the hadith of the discourse, we know who said it and who wrote it...

Your truth verse now, we know who said it but who wrote it ?

Can you please translate this phrase from the hadith in question

"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

Your translation will show if your Tafsir or Fatwah is TRUE or just another LIE!

Over to you please!

Tell me Mr Antichristian,
Why is it engrained in the DNA of Muslims to tell lies on demand?
Don't you know who you resemble with lies!?




John 8:44:
"You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

What you are saying is that either
The scholars of Sunnah.com don't understand Islam nor Arabic
or
you and your Tafsir is fabricating lies

AntiChristian:


The hadith has a Tafsir which defines those going to hell!
So the rightful translation of the hadith is The one who buried the infant girl and the one who had her buried will both enter Hell.

Mr Antichristian,
Do you know that you can comfortably represent satan in a lying competition!?

Let me reiterate the offending verse:

"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

Let me show you the translation (as attached) in the pix below .

How come
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell.

Is consistent with
"The woman who buries her child alive and the buried child are in the Fire."

budaatum:
If I want you to appreciate new born babies and not bury them at birth in 7AD, I'd tell you you and the baby will go to hell in order to deter you.

I'm aware it wouldn't work in 2024AD though, and would think you were being absurd if you still thought there was even a hell for you to go to.

Unfortunately, the person you defend is the mightiest PROPHET of Islam and ANYTHING he says with respect to his Religion is deemed to be from Allah. This is why some hadiths abrogate even Quranic verses. Thus the hadith cannot be taken as mere words of Mohammed but of Allah.

Secondly, only the pre-Islamic non-muslim Arabs buried their daughters. These would neither believe in heaven nor hell and thus, it is meaningless scaring them with hell.

Thirdly, according to Islamic narrative, the reason why girls in particular were buried was because boys were preferred and valued more than girls and burying them has nothing to do with religion other than culture. It will make no sense for them to kill their daughters because they wanted them in paradise.