olasco2035:
Where is d dick

Just zoom the first picture very well and you will see the Dick which has been detached on the blue cloth near to you.

Also, if you zoom the other pictures too you will see blood on the bed and bruises on the Lady

It's not a joking matter o

stanleyuzoh022:
Good evening investors,

My friend just bought treasury bill worth 6.5M
for 93 days as indicated in the mail from the bank. He got debit of 6,317,821.92 from his Diamond Bank account.

Please, how many % was he given?
How much does he receive upon maturity?

I n my friend don’t know much about it as he was guided by someone, so i need a clarification because i am interested.

Thanks and God bless.

If what you stated above is true, then go back to the mail from the bank and the rate (%) must be in it.

2. Hr will receive N6.5m at maturity.

[quote author=PromaxVentures post=66470334][/quote]


You were even lucky to have gotten 364 days tenor last Wednesday because it has always been massively oversubscribed with a lot of people failing to succeed because stop rates has been on the down ward trend since January and a lot of us believe that we should lock in into the longest tenor available as early as possible before it gets as low as 10% or even below.

That said, my advice is that you go for the secondary market for a tenor not less than 280days with a rate of 13% or higher starting from today because you're not sure of a successful GTB bid in the next auction and as you wait, the stop rates keep falling.

If by next auction, you haven't gotten one, then you can try the primary market again for the 364 days tenor. If you go for the 182day tenor, by the time it matures and you want to re-invest, the rates MAY have been down to 10% or lower with the trend of events in the Market.

Above is just my thought please.

Mfunkynation:
boss, i dont see any wrong thing there. 13.044% is 13%. You could have use secondary market to get below 364 days @13%.

In financial matters, 13.044% is not the same as 13% please.

PromaxVentures:
Hello house,

I opted in for a 13% bid rate with my account officer at GTBank, prior to the April 4th auction with N3m invested capital FOR 364days. The alert reaching me today, April 5 is that my account has a debited amount of N2,626,027.40, which implies that CBN credited my account with N373,972.60, meanwhile the successful bid rate on CBN website is 13.0422%. Here is where I need the help of the financial gurus in the house:

What is the actual rate on my N3m investment?
Based on the aforementioned info, how is supposed to be credited to my account, and what will be my True yield upon maturity?
If applied rate is below 13%(My Rate) or 13.044%(CBN rate), are the banks legally allowed to bid below customer's indicated rate?

Thanks guys...

For your information, since about a year ago, CBN has changed the idea of anybody or individual stating his own bidding rate except for bids involving at least N50million.

So what the banks does is to pull funds from individuals together with theirs and bid on their behalf at their own rate although I understand that few banks excluding GTB allow people to state their own bids and if it's higher than theirs, their bids fails and such money returned back into their accounts after the bidding.

For the last auction, I understand that GTB bidded for 12.5% and stop rate was 13.0422%. So all those who invested below N50m with GTB are alloted at GBT rate of 12.5%.

12.5 % of your N3m is N37,5000 and when transaction charges are deducted, your balance of upfront interest is the N373,972.60. So you have not been cheated at all.

The fact that the stop rate was 13.0422% does not imply that GTB will give you at that rate since their bid was 12.5%.

If you actually stated on their form (not verbally)that you wanted 13%, what they should have done is to return your N3m as "unsuccessful bid" but I guess you didn't

sameniceguy:
Hi guys.
Please which point will I receive my capital. Bought TB with FirstBank early Jan. They sent ne an email last 2days that my investment matures today 4th but i am yet to get an alert.

Note I didn’t check for it to be reinvested

Check your account balance.
Sometimes, you may not get alert but the money would be there.

H

pxjosh:
This is my first time seeing this thread and I'm just regretting for not starting earlier

Ehyaaa!!
Sorry o. But it's not too late.
It's better to be late than never.
Just take your time and start reading from page 0 and I bet you, by the time you're done, you will be glad you did and you are not likely to be asking already answered questions.

That's just my 10Kobo advice.

Mfunkynation:
No for the first or second question

First question

crowntoro:
but please, is she right to have told her that 300k is too small for primary market? I thought one can invest in 100k and above in any market

No!!!

leonaidas:
Good morning everyone, please I was at fbn this morning, the lady told me 300k is too small to invest in primary market, that I can only invest in secondary market. She gave me 12.6% for 86days. Problem is, she said I will only get 8000 naira interest.

How is that a problem?
If you decide to pick the 86days tenor at 12.6%, what you will earn as up front interest is just about N8,930 and by the time the bank deduct charges it will reduce to maybe about N8,500.

The bank is right na.

Oo what we're you expecting?

Investnow2017:

@Oga Tony
@AwesomeJ

Please permit me to bother you a little. Can you help me clarify please, I am getting confused here.

I got 337days tenure treasury bills at 18% last year with N1,800,000. I got the interest upfront.

The transaction date was 12th July, 2017 and like I earlier said, it was a 337-day tenure and was terminated on the 19th of March, 2018.

I liquidated today and was paid N1,730,000.

How correct are they?

Terminated at what rate pls

Investnow2017:

@Oga Tony
@AwesomeJ

Please permit me to bother you a little. Can you help me clarify please, I am getting confused here.

I got 337days tenure treasury bills at 18% last year with N1,800,000. I got the interest upfront.

I liquidated today and was paid N1,730,000.

How correct are they?

Please provide the following informations for us to be able to determine if they are correct:
1.date of purchase & rate
2.date of termination & rate.

Gavrelino123:

Boss,i have changed my mind ooo.....i better go with Secondary Market which I'm sure of......Not after waiting till Thursday,no debit alert....it can be very heart-breaking..I will now have to wait until next week Monday again?....Haaa no way!!!
Thanks

I was wondering why you would like to go through your previous experience again at this uncertain time when you can get better offer that is close to 364days at the Secondary market

Gavrelino123:

Thanks for the info,but Is tomorrow morning late...?
Because I'm interested...

With Stambic, tomorrow morning is not late but I don't know about your GTB.

My brother, you want to try again with 364days?
Well, no harm in trying but I doubt if you can get with your bank because the amount on offer is even smaller than was made available last week which was massively over subscribed. I would have preferred that you go for secondary market where you are even likely to get a higher rate than at the Primary market.

I wish you the best of luck

Ikmontana1:
hello bosses in d haus..
is it possible to extend d maturity date in treasury bills.??. .e.g I invested in tbills for 182 days two weeks ago but I want to extend to 364 days ..

NO! NO!! NO!!! SIR.
It's not possible to extend it but you are at liberty to terminate whatever you bought at the Primary market before maturity.

The only way you MAY increase the tenure is to buy more at the prevailing rate either at the Primary or Secondary markets. Note also that your buy rates for 182 days and 364days at the Primary market could not have been the same.

Gavrelino123:

Oga Tony,.....the rate in which investors are subscribing for 364 days is really very alarming.......Please can you kindly explain the reasons for the oversubscription of 364 days tenure?.....because i don't think it has ever been like this before....

Hmmmmmmmm.
You see, the oversubscription of 364 days is not unexpected at all. In actual fact, I foresaw it and if you read my post before the very first Treasury Bills auction of this year wherein I forecasted that the first Treasury Bills of the year was very likely to be the highest rate for quite a while. Consequently, I remember advising people to lock in whatever they had for that 1st auction and to date, it's still the highest.

So a lot of investors also saw this too and have been trying to lock in into the 364 days tenor early as the rates generally are more likely to be heading southwards as we are seeing now.

I remember advising you about two weeks ago to go for the secondary market and for the longest tenor you can get but well over 250days and at not less than 13.5% because you are not sure of getting 364 days tenor yesterday and the rate was likely to fall further which came to pass more so since your bank is not Stambic which get their bids closest to the CBN stop rates nor First Bank which usually comes after Stambic and I am happy that you took to the advice and got about 13.5%.

In summary, we are having this serious or massive oversubscription because investors foresee more downward slide of the rates and are rushing to lock in their funds to the longest tenor they can get before it slides below 10% (I pray not o).

Can you imagine that my Bank-Stambic got 13.925% rate for me in the first auction of the year for 182days tenor which incidentally was CBN stop rate and that is the highest so far. I would have gone for the 364day then but I would need the funds in July.

BREAKING: Inflation rate drops to 14.33% in February – NBS http://punchng.com/breaking-inflation-rate-drops-to-14-33-in-february-nbs/.

yinka2011:
Here is the result from today's Nigerian Treasury Bills Primary Market Auction direct from easykobo


link is here https://www.easykobo.com/News.aspx?id=19944

Hmmmmmmmmm.
The Nigerian Treasury Bills is getting very interesting now. Today's allocations are some how and very funny.

The CBN offered N9.57Billion for sale, but only N6.21Billion was bidded for and as usual, they were all alloted at a stop rate of 11.75%

For 182days, the CBN offered N47.86Billion for sale but only N12.52Billion was bidded for BUT suprisingly, instead of allotting all the N12.52Billion, CBN alloted only N4Billion at a stop rate of 13.00%.because of my fears last week that if care is not taken, the stop rate for 182days today may be higher than that of 364days. So, if they were to allot the N12.52Billion, then the stop rate for 182days would have been about 14%.which is not allowed.

For 364days tenor, the CBN offered N38.39Billion for sale but a whopping N154.58 was bidded by investors. CBN then moved the shortfall of N3.36Billion from the 90days tenor and N43.86 they refused to sell because the stop rate would be higher than that of 364days if sold and added both to increase their offer for the 364days thereby allotting them N85.50Billion instead of the paltry N38.39Billion they initially intended to sell at a stop rate of 13.185%.

In fact, if not for that intervention by CBN, the stop rate for 364days would have been less than 13% and 182days about 14%

We shall continue to see things are they unfold and like I predicted at the beginning of the year, the first stop rates of the year are very likely going to be the highest for quite a while this year

Partnerbiz:


If what left his account last year was 13.7m say at 17% then the face value is around 16m hence he should be credited with around 16m upon termination this year.

But the impression he gave, prima facie suggests that 13.7m left his account and now he was credited with 13.058m.


And he cried of losing 600k.
.Thats why I am worried because it's impossible for him to lose his CAPITAL in the circumstances.

cc

Alakwa..

The problem with his case is that he was economical with the important informations required for the assessment of his case.

I guess he was referring to the discounted value as N13.7m and not the face value. When he invested the money .on 3rd May 2017, stop rate was about 18.7% so he most likely bought at not less than 18%. Which means that the face value of his investment is around 16.6m.

If that is true, he pocketed about N2.88m as "up front interest" and was still expecting to be paid back his face value of N16.6m when he terminated it 57days before maturity which is not possible.

So if what he is telling us is that he was to sell it at a loss, then that is NOT POSSIBLE. He probably forgot that he got N2.88m in May 2017. What ever he gets from the transaction, he should add it to the upfront interest he collected last year before he can know if he did it at a loss or not.

I think we should forget about his case since we don't have detailed informations about his transaction and moreover, i think he came back here few days after to inform us that eventually cancelled the transaction.

Partnerbiz:

.He actually bought high and sold low..

So how come he lost part of his capital?


My sis bought at 17.5 with Access Bank last August and terminated Dec 18, got his full capital with profit..

That's why Alakwa's case is troubling me.

It's actually not possible for him to lose even a kobo out of his capital.

I guess he forgot that he already collected over 2m last year as upfront interest. It's part of the upfront interest that he collected in May 2017 that was deducted from his expected discounted amount

awesomeJ:


If you bought a 364 day paper at 18% discount, and decide to terminate after 30 days. Aside the transaction charges, all that gets debited from your face value is the value of the upfront interest that goes to the new buyer. That'll be about 166k if the rediscount rate stays thesame. You'll get about 834k as termination proceeds.

When you take the approach of subtracting the portion the upfront interest for the remaining period, and again subtracting the value of interest that goes to the new buyer-which are what you listed as 1 and 2 in your initial post, you are merely deducting the same charge twice, that's what needs to be corrected.


On the union bank's issue, The 25% caveat is very likely to be for FDs as UBN isn't the issuer of T-bills.

The CBN issues them, and regulates the market. They specify limits to charges banks can make on customers investing in government securities. So it isn't very likely that a bank would impose such a charge.

From this post of yours, I am now convinced that you don't know what it takes to terminate TB prematurely.

There's therefore no need for me to continue to argue with you any further. So whosoever believe you should hold on to your view and when ever they terminate their TB, they will come back here to lick their wounds or keep quiet to avoid being laughed at.

One last question-Have you ever terminated TB before maturity? If yes, can you share the details with us?

After all, @White chocolate shared his details and @realjidejamal who banks with Union Bank has just confirmed above that there is Penal charge of 25% on the upfront interest expressly stated on the certificate of investment. Yet you are still arguing about it all and you do not bank with Union.

I rest my case on this issue and it's left for those who still buy your views on this to do so.

Pls don't refer to me as "Boss" as I am not one and don't claim to be so. Almighty God is the Boss.

realjidejamal:
Dear awesomeJ,

Amongst all the Union Bank 25% is not false. It was clearly stated on the proof of Investment given to me which I uploaded same on this thread. I bank with Union Bank and I have 3 Tbills with them, whether they’ve stopped I don’t know, but it was on the proof of investment and it was one of the reason why I didn’t later terminate my tbills last year.

God bless you greatly for that confirmation

awesomeJ:

Boss, T-bills termination is not as complex as you're making it seem.

If you buys bills and you want to rediscount, the only debit from your face value are the new discount and transaction charges. So the other charges you listed don't exist, and the Union bank's 25% too is false info.

If he bought at 18%, and sold at 11%, He would have even made more gains. Remember White Chocolate's experience and the short-selling talks we had.

It's not as complex.

My dear brother, termination of Tresury Bills is very much more than what you are making people to believe. I would have not responded to your post but my keeping mum over it would allow some investors on this thread to believe you and get their fingers burnt.

So, you think you can invest for 364day and get upfront interest based on that and get away with it when you refuse to wait for the investment to mature? CAPITAL NO!!! Where that to be possible, I would have done that and resell just after 30days.

It's exactly as I have stated earlier and I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BY ANYONE WHO HAS TERMINATED TB BEFORE.

Where did you confirm that the caveat of 25% penalty by Union Bank I's false? Do you bank with them?

The person who bank with them and was about terminating his TB told us here that it exists and that it's stated in the hard copy with him, yet you who does not bank with them is telling us that it's not true-meaning that the guy lied to us?

haibe:


I dont need you help, I wasn't the one who asked the question, I'm just saying sometimes its better not to reply than to reply offensively.

I am absolutely in support of not responding at all to such questions that have been answered severally instead of risking being insulted.

I have since learnt my lessons to keep silent on it after being insulted.

awesomeJ:
@Alakwa.
There are banks that'd have rediscounted your bills at the prevailing rates, and that would have been 12% at most for 57 days. Then the amount deducted would have been about 260,000 representing the upfront interest to the new buyer. So you would have been credited with about 13.44m.

But I once read here, someone saying that GTB doesn't rediscount at prevailing market rates, but rather at the rate at which the initial investment was sealed.

So if that's to be the case, the amount debited from your account should have been about 390K, implying that you should have gotten 13.31m back in your account.

As it is now, there's about 260,000 of your money whose whereabouts have no meaningful explanation yet.

Like others have said, you need to contact the bank with questions. Confirm the original amount that they invested for you as well as the discount rates on purchase and at termination.
Maybe the initial investment was a little below 13.7 m, Not likely, but still make sure.

260,000 is more than what some graduates earn in a year!
Plus if you want to dash people money, it shouldn't be banks that makes almost 3 billion naira each working day.

It appears you don't know how the whole thing is worked out when you sell your investment before maturity.

First, you will pay for the excess upfront interest collected for the 364days instead of 364-57days.

Two, you will pay for the upfront interest given to the new buyer of the remaining 57days.

Three, if your investment was with Union Bank, you pay a penalty of 25% of the upfront interest collected initially by you.

Four, you will pay transaction charges for the termination.

For better understanding of this scenerio, pls go to my analysis on page 486 but note that the guy has not told us the rate he bought at the Primary market in May last year which had a CBN stop rate of 18.7% and the rate the 57days tenor was sold to the new buyer on 3rd March this year for me to have been able to give a very close calculation of what he was supposed to be charged at the end of the day.

However, anytime he provides the informations, he can simply remove my assumed %s and replace with the actual ones to arrive at the rough amount. But methinks that he was not cheated expecially if he bought above 18% and sold at over 11%.

I posted it about 4days ago and he has not responded to my inquiries about those actual buy & sell %. So I am inclined to believe that he has understood why he was so debited.

Chienex24:
Please, in order to have an idea, what are the requirements in opening TB account in let's say GTB bank, even when someone has a savings account with them already?

You don't need to open another account specially for TB. Your existing savings or current account with them is enough to invest in TB

Alakwa:
Team nice jobs you guys are doing in this forum. Still on GTB, I put up my T bills actually due for maturity in 57 days for sale in the secondary market and to greatest surprise what was deducted from my initial face value is unspeakable. When I calculated it base on percentage, they are charging me like 30% for the 57 days. Simple language lets assume

invested N13,700,000
Date : 4th may 2017
Expected maturity : 3rd May 2018

Date my account was credited 8th of March
Amount paid : N13,058,000.

Currently I am out of town, I have been calling my account officer to know what happened but so far I have not gotten any reasonable info. I am loosing lose to 650k for just 57 days . Please expert in the house I need your advice on this .

My brother, you have not given sufficient informations for anyone to know if the deduction is "unspeakable".

1.At what rate did you buy at the Primary market?
2 At what rate was it sold at the secondary market?

Since you bought on 4th may, your buying rate should be between 17 & 18.5% depending on your bank.

Let's assume you bought at 17%, it would mean you got about N2,329,000 as upfront interest.

Since you sold 57days before due date, you will be debited N2,329,000 × (57/364) = N364,706.04 for excess earnings. Note that if it was purchased at 18% or more, it will be higher.

The last stop rate for 91days was around 11% and your sale was for only 57days. Let's assume that it was sold at 9%. It means it was sold at a loss of 8% since TB rates has fallen. Then the sale at 9% discount = N13,700,000 × (9/100) × (57/364) = N193,079.67. Which will also be debited to your account. Note also that if it was sold at 10% or higher, this amount will also increase.

The total deductions from your N13,700,000 (excluding bank charges) and assuming that my assumptions are correct which I doubt, = N364,706.04
+N193079.67
=N557,785.7.

So, if the rates you bought the TB last year May is higher than my estimated rate of 17% the deduction will increase. Also, if the rate it was sold at the Secondary market was equally higher than my estimated 9%, it will also increase the deductions further.

You are lucky that your investment was not with Union Bank in which case, you would have equally been debited another 25% of the upfront interest you received.

fodukes:
Good morning people, I wanted to send in my update for the Gtbank wahala but you know you can easily lose track of time on a friday .. Well after I got to the bank that yesterday morning and went straight to customer service and told them I wanted to see the manager. They already understood what was coming so they called one of their operations manager or head of operations or something... ok I think it was line manager. He met me and I told him I was going to cause a scene, I was really dramatic (omg)... anyway when I was done talking he started to explain the whole bidding, auction and subscription process and how HR handles the behavior of their staff and other related matter, like i was a new recruit; Bros! I just want 5 Million Naira TBills!! Today!!! I told him. It was processed within the following hours and I got 12% for 103 days, the discounted sum was debit from account around 5pm yesteday. Im sure it will be a smooth process from now on.

I am happy you were there yesterday to "display" for them.
Do you know that all they told you were lies?
Do you know that it was the same offer they did not process for you two days ago that you still bought?
Two days ago, it was 104days at 12%, and yesterday it naturally would be 103days.

Those people are simply callous and just wanted to punish you for moving your money from them at stupendously low interest to Federal Government''s TB and in the process, they also delayed the sale for the original owner by one day.

At any rate it's still okay that they now know that you can't be taken for a ride as you know what you want and what to do. If it were First or Stambic Bank, for secondary market, you are likely in many cases to get everything done with your account debited before you leave the bank if you got there early enough.

If you still intend to do TB with them, i advise you just walk into another branch and ask for the guys in charge of TB there. Your accounts officer will only see it in your account later.

Do have a beautiful weekend

Iammelvin:
that's long o.. I need a simple explanation

Yes it's long but that's what it takes to be able to master it without rushing back to the thread to ask severally answered questions every now and then.

I went through it too and remember the proverb that says "the pot that intends to cook soup should be ready to get its buttocks hot".

We are talking about money here and if you are not well vast in this TB and you take a plunge, you may regret it and the wolves in the banks will also capitalize on it and frustrate you. So "a stich in time saves nine".

There's no point rushing to invest my dear brother. Take time to read the previous threads and digest them first and like I used to tell people, you will NEVER regret doing so.

I wish you the very best.

fodukes:


Thank you bro for this detailed explanation, well let me tell you my experience today. Before today, I had gone to the bank on the 28th of Feb and i gave the instruction for the tbill to my account officer (i already explained the story in my previous post). So today I went to the bank armed with all this info ive read here, this is 10 days after my first instruction. So instead of going to my account officer's office, I went to customer care and told them what i wanted. The gentle man that attended to me started speaking english, well i followed up and schooled him well on the matter... He wasnt able to keep up so another lady take over from where he stopped (omo no be small thing ) This new lady then told me to write an instruction which i refused because i pointed out to her that i wrote one on the 28th of feb. and it wasnt treated because if it was I wouldnt be here. That was when she said we shud go see my account officer which I categorically told her i didnt want to see her because im upset so she went by herself, came back to me and started apologizing. She went back into their marketing office again afterwards and came back with the rate of 12% for 104 days and i said i was going to take it. She then pleaded with me to write a new instruction quickly so they can treat it because they had a portal deadline of 1pm or something, while still asking me to come to the marketing office where my account officer was and i still refused - telling her i didnt want to see her and that as a matter of fact i wanted a new account officer. In the end she said they had done everything and my account will be debited before the end of the day. As at 5pm my money was and is still sitting comfortably in my account ooo... so i called the account officer to ask for update and she said i will be debited today or latest tomorrow morning, if not then that means it was not successful. The way im going to storm that Gtbank tomorrow ehn by 11am if i dont get debit alert, them go hail.

You really tried. But if they don't do it, don't talk to any other staff of the bank and just go straight to see the Branch manager and tell him or her that you want to know the processes of moving all your money to another bank and you will be asked why.

Then tell the manager that your account officer and the TB officers are conspiring against you and you want to move your money to Stambic or First Bank.

I bet you, the manager and all the staff will beg and apologise to you and everything will be done right there and your account debited immediately.

My guess is that you will be told that it was not successful by the time you get there today.

They simply want to delay the movement of your money to Treasury bills to boost your account officer''s target.