Namdio:


Firstly, Happy New Month!

Second, this is a clear case of people misinterpreting what God said, save for the last one (she is definitely mentally ill)

I don't think when God said leave all your belonging, he literally meant everything (and the two were pastors lol). They should have at least worn some clothes smh.

As for the truck driver, there had to have been a better way to get the woman to pull over. At least no one was harmed.

jasminer:


1. You don't want to judge Christianity by its own book of law, but you want to judge Christianity based on some philosophical trash written by only God knows who Double standards... I'll pass.

2. If we would continue having this discussion, I won't tolerate you calling my Holy Bible a fictional book, it's worse than you insulting my parents. I haven't insulted you at all in anyway... If you cannot do this, let this conversation end because I can't understand where the bile is coming from over something you claim doesn't exist

3. If I say my name is Timtim and Timtim means Gold, how can you argue with me because Timtim in your dictionary means beating?
I'm a Christian, and Christianity means Christ like. Religion is a system, I do not conform to nor belong to any christian system. My daily goal is to be more Christ like not to be more system like. That's all.

4. God is described as infinite. Humans are supposedly finite and have limited capacity to fully understand every aspect of his being.
I love your response on knowing the mind of God, most especially this emboldened part.
You agree man is limited and God is limitless, so how can man know everything in a limitless mind via man's limited mind?
Do you want to teach a day old child algebra or quadratic equation?
Will you teach a primary student quantum physics? You'll learn what you're capable of understanding. Even if God told you everything, you won't understand because man is limited but God is limitless.
All man needs to know about God is in the Bible and God sticks to what is written when dealing with man.

So once again, I know the mind of God, his mind is in the Bible.

5. I also love the verses you quoted to show various ways God speaks to man. They all agree with Numbers 12 vs 6-8:
6. And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Irrespective of whatever means God or God's angel speaks to you, one thing is certain, the message they give to you or the dreams or the visions cannot contradict the word of God in the Bible. If it's confusing or not clear and seems like it's contradicting the Bible, don't be in a haste to believe, first test the spirit to be sure they are of God. If the spirit is of God, pray for clarity and you'll get it.

6. Morals apart, the existence of this earth and everything in it is evidence that God exists.
Let's assume Big bang theory is true as thats pretty much the only scientific explanation of Earth's existence.

Big bang is the explosion of an immense energy and heat that gave birth to everything on earth and in space. What created the immense energy and heat before the beginning began? Some say Dark energy, some say Quantum uncertainty etc but there's a general consensus that something caused big bang and big bang caused everything else but logically thinking, it's impossible to have an infinite regress of cause and effects.

In simpler terms, it's impossible for something that caused what caused something to cause something to cause something that caused big bang to be the true SOURCE of all causes and effects because something must have caused the first something in the first place before that something existed.

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed same with energy, it can only be converted from one form to another so what was the first matter or energy that caused the dark energy to cause immense heat (up to 1trillion celcius degrees) to cause the explosion in the first place.

Before big bang, there was nothing, where did dark energy come from? Why hasn't another bang occured?

The only answer is that there MUST have been an UNCAUSED CAUSE which preceded every other thing. This UNCAUSED CAUSE is the true SOURCE of all form of matter, life and energy.

This source is who I refer to as God and everything that exists is proof that he caused everything to exist.

jasminer:
It's Christianity that's in the question here and so it must be discussed according to the words of the Bible and only according to the words of the Bible, not what anyone says.
You can't discuss Christianity and it's doctrines from the standpoint of an atheist and if that's what we're doing... Let me come and be going because the Gospel of salvation to them that perish is foolishness but to them that believe, it's the power of God unto salvation.

jasminer:
1. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a way of life. Christian means Christ like.

jasminer:
2. I can tell the mind of God because it's written in the Bible... He made known His ways to Moses, His acts to the children of Israel. Psalm 103 vs 7

jasminer:
[b]So even if a million people come and say God said this, as long as it contradicts the Bible, they are all wrong.

jasminer:
And if you claim this is what Christianity is about, quote a scripture to back it up.

jasminer:
You're only obligated to believe what the Bible says about God. Anything outside that is double standards.

jasminer:

Mathew 18 vs 18, Whatever you allow on earth will be allowed in heaven. Man started war, man reaped war. If God were to act on everything that doesn't please Him, would you as an atheist still be alive? Would there be any other religion apart from Christianity?

uche40:
This assumes that an omnipotent and omniscient deity who advocates peace, love, mercy and forgiveness, does not have the capacity to prevent conflict and fighting among neighboring countries. He also cannot think up other means to avert conflict and ensure peace and harmony between these countries, while still ensuring that his plan for man is fulfilled. You have not answered my question.

jasminer:
God has reserved one day when He will speak wether you asked Him to speak or not, that's called the day of judgement, until that day comes, you'll have to pray and fast for Him to speak to you or wait for your karma for whatever evil you commit.

jasminer:
In the bible days, a old child of an enemy you killed poses a future threat to you and your children.

jasminer:


Genesis chapter 6 vs 5 - 8

5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

For the Bible to say that the wickedness of man was great, then it means that people did abominable things then.
A world where everyone was constantly thinking of evil things and carrying them out? Constantly trying to outdo each other's wickedness of the previous day?
If God didn't wipe out that world, do you think we'll even be talking about morality?

Such a world deserved to be wiped out by God.

uche40:
Are you positive that ALL instances of genocide and infanticide carried out by God in the Bible only occurred when God was provoked in an instance of war? A "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

jasminer:


You mean commanded by God. Yes

jasminer:

You said here that one group are certain, the other group isn't certain

jasminer:


Oga, you saw another atheist say that she believes there could be spiritual activities and the likes. What's your own inside it now?

uche40:
Are you positive that ALL instances of genocide and infanticide carried out by God in the Bible only occurred when God was provoked in an instance of war? A "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

jasminer:


You mean commanded by God. Yes

jasminer:


Humans started war, perfected the art of war not God.

jasminer:

A country committed genocide against another country, God ordered that the favour be returned exactly the same way. God didn't start it but he made sure that they reaped what they started.

jasminer:
If Christianity is a game, there are rules to the game.

jasminer:

The fact that someone said God said this, does it automatically mean God said it?

jasminer:
1. Rules of Christianity include the facts that God is righteous and an upholder of righteousness

jasminer:
2. We should love our neighbours like we love ourselves and only do to our neighbours what we would like someone else to do to us

jasminer:
3. God's word never breaks. As a Christian I believe that we have day and night because God has commanded it, before day and night seize maybe there'll have to be an apocalypse. God said that there'll be floods but He also said that water will never destroy the world again. If His word fails, He seizes to be God. That's what He said. And that's what I am holding on to. In my not so many years, I can testify that His word has Never failed me.

jasminer:
4. God declared that what a man sows he'll reap. There's no changing or escaping it.

jasminer:
5. We have the new testament because Jesus lived and died fulfilling the Old testament so anyone who believes in Jesus automatically has fulfilled the Old testament. This is because God saw that man can't follow laws because of our fall from grace. The only law in the new testament now is Love and if you fail this commandment, no heaven for you.

jasminer:
6. God is not partial, God is a father and creator to all humanity which is why His rain falls on me the Christian, you the atheist and even the religious fanatics.

Namdio:
...God doesn't impose His will on mankind...

Namdio:


None of the links are working.

jasminer:


Please quote the other scenarios so I get a clearer understanding of where you're coming from. I mean provide the exact place in the Bible God commanded such

jasminer:


Firstly, I've watch documentaries on children who were rescued from terrorist camps. It took some two years to gain any form of normalcy. I saluted the courage of one particular mother where even her own society turned their backs on her and her son but she didn't give up till she found an equally determined children behavioral therapist and they both after about 2yrs restored some normalcy to the child.
Before his rehabilitation, the boy loved to kill and destroy anything he could. Cut off head of toys, strangle pets and watch them die with rapt attention, capture little creatures and slice them open, destroy the toys of other kids, beat up smaller kids, throw stones at vehicles, rejected the name his parents named him and insisted they call him what the terrorists used to call him, hated cartoons, screamed at adults and hit or bite them if they try to correct him. No respect, no fear, even urinated on his mother for scolding him. So, as a military decision maker, if you have two hundred thousand children like this, what do you do?

Then the issue of the new Borns, can they survive without their mothers? Who is going to breastfeed ten thousand day old children at the war front? Who will bathe them? Change their diapers?

Is leaving them alive and orphaned your idea of justice? Vultures and wild animals will eat them up either way.

Do you spare their mothers who are actively involved in their husband's terrorism by their own freewill? Who even raised their husbands to be terrorists if not the mothers of the husbands?

Some things are easy to say than doing it. I've never seen American soldiers bring back orphaned children, does that mean no child was in the terrorist camps ?
As noble as it sounds, you may not even be able to carry back your weak friend who is still alive talkless of a random child as innocent as it is.

That's even apart from the high risk that those children will grow to harbor resentment for the Israelites even if the Israelites save them. Afterall didn't Pharaoh's daughter save Moses? Didn't Moses grow up to side his own people and even killed an Egyptian?

It's easy to write noble stories but if you are not a military personnel, you haven't been in a war, you didn't even live in the times we're talking about, it's easy to misjudge

uche40:

What does your God really stand to gain from engaging in pissing contents with nations who defy him or go against his "divine" will? Why is he so bloodlusted and obsessed with wars in the Old Testament? If indiscriminate killing in any conflict or war scenario is to be justified, at least two conditions have to be met. The killings have to prevent calamities worse than it will cause. And, as a means of prevention, it has to be the last resort. Killing random people or infants should not be considered until ANY and ALL alternative means have been tried -- and have failed.

As the all-powerful, all-knowing deity of peace and love that your God is, is it so inconceivable for him to design a perfect blend of diplomacy and continuous examination to deal with any and all possible threats? Is war and violence the only means he can devise? Then why is he called all-knowing and all-powerful? Why is he called all-good (omnibenevolent)?

Even in the books of the Old Testament, it is proven time after time that your God's constant attacks and subjugation of the enemies of the Israelites are mostly ineffectual. His defeat of these nations only seems to contribute to temporary safety and long-term enmity between these nations and his chosen people since these nations will only view the Israelites' victory as a humiliation to be avenged.

jasminer:


Genesis chapter 2 vs 5-6
... : for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

jasminer:


I am a Christian and will answer this question as a Christian.

It's right because God said it's right. He's wiser and knows more than me so I can never understand all the factors he considered before arriving at His conclusion. But if I'm confused, I'll pray and He'll help me to understand why He made that decision.

That's the difference between a theist and an atheist. Where there's confusion between logic and trusting God blindly, the Theist trusts God blindly while the atheist waits for logical convincing logic.

I've suffered terrible things, but today, I'm grateful to God for everything I suffered. Each blow taught me lessons my parents didn't teach me because they loved and sheltered me too much. Initially it was a cross but now it's a crown. This is after 20+yrs. I achieved something very big months ago something I first attempted about 12yrs ago and while discussing with my sister, she asked me if I was sad about the delay and sad experiences, I told her that if I had the power to go back in time, I'll willingly face each problem again. Some problems stripped me of fake friends, some problems made long time secret enemies reveal themselves, some taught me bluntness of life and the human nature, some taught me practical business, some taught me marketing, some taught me forgiveness and patience and it's made me who I am today which I am grateful for. For example, someone tried to marry me but the plan was to kill me after our wedding because of what I was pursuing, only after it supposedly fail did the person mock my failure and tell me that that was what attracted them to me. Lol. I later found out that the person knows people that can make a senator disappear . Let me stop here for privacy reasons.
So why won't I trust Him blindly at my next crossroad?

Back to your question, God is the originator of morals, through the ancient times, the moral people were always those who served and obeyed his word. Before He began to speak to man, who would have taught man right from wrong? Nobody.
Go through the bible, God taught men to wash their clothes, wash their bodies, shave their hair or oil their hair, to not eat blood, to dig the ground before they defecate and cover it up, he taught men to cook food, to be kind to their animals, to be kind to strangers, to respect elders, to give to the poor and to Him, to be moderate in everything. He taught the laws for people who commit a crime and what to do for someone who mistakenly committed a crime. He even introduced the first polygraph test (the Urim Thurim) and what to do when the Urim Thurim is not there.

Everything you call humanity or morals has been written in the bible thousands of years ago.

Let me shock you a bit, ancient Britain was a pile of dirt, they didn't bathe or have sewage systems, the Europeans were appalled at the stench from the British when they first arrived Britain , Britain was pagan then. The missionaries then began to teach them Christianity, Islam etc and hygiene.

jasminer:


I said humans killing unprovoked is bad.
I never said that God taking the life He gave someone is bad.
It belongs to Him afterall.

jasminer:


Yup, before the floods of Noah, there wasn't even rain talkless of flood.

jasminer:


The children being born in Boko Haram, iswap or even ISIS terrorist camps, do you think they pose a threat to humanity?

jasminer:


Unprovoked, outside a war scenario, killing anyone is a big offense and the punishment for it is death. But the things that happen in war can't be judged as the things that happen in a civilian court.
That's why the military has it's own court because if soldiers were to be tried in a civilian court, Omo, na firing squad

All is fair in war my dear, a soldier will never be making this argument because they know how decisions are made.

Let me give you an example, imagine you're driving a trailer which has "failed brake". In front of you is traffic, to your left is a bike with a woman and two babies, to your left is a coaster bus of 28 young men going to only God knows where. You must hit something and whoever you hit has only 1% chance of survival. Who will you hit?

Either you act or not, at least 4 will die but it could be up to 30+ depending on your choice. It's up to you to limit the casualties to the nearest minimum.

jasminer:


Interesting... Thanks for your insight

jasminer:
I've heard another opinion that there's no God...

jasminer:
and hence all animals evolved from the same source with humans and apes evolving from the same ancestors.

jasminer:
They further said that humans are simply smarter and have a better body frame and advanced communication senses which gave us adventage over all animals.

jasminer:
They argue that such it's possible for a human to genuinely love an animal and be loved by that animal and if that animal is willing to spend the rest of their life with a human, then the human could wed them.

jasminer:
But what happens when an animal itself like a chimpanzee touches a woman sexually or an animal like a dog who has been exposed to sexual acts before attempts to ride a woman. In such a case, the animal made the first move, in such a case, it can't be rape can it?

jasminer:


Lol, Yes or no can't answer your question if that's what you're waiting for because that would be generalization and one size can't fit all. I myself will kill a child if I feel my life is threatened and my actions can be or condemned or justified depending on the scenario.

Unprovoked, it's wrong to kill any human regardless of their age.

In war, whoever needs to die for the safety of your country and people should be killed without thinking twice even if it's a day old child.

God never asked anyone to rape any woman, the punishment for rape is death. If you have no proof of otherwise, don't repeat this question again because this is the second time I'm answering it.

kingxsamz:

Now please answer me, quickly.
Is genocide, infanticide, incest, slavery and rape wrong?
I need direct answers. Thank you.

jasminer:
Yes they are wrong.

jasminer:


Yes they are wrong.

Buy you however haven't told me why beastiality is wrong since we're all animals according to atheists.

Namdio:


Why Roland?

lol

MaxInDHouse:

Alright, i don't know what you mean by "Roland" my profile name is "MaxInDHouse"

Enjoy your weekend!

MaxInDHouse:


If you have nothing to add now that i've proved my worth as one of Jesus' true disciples and not misinformed Churchgoers!

MaxInDHouse:


Not much for the moment i only wish to help you know the real meaning of that group name "CHRISTIANS" that's why i quoted the founder (CHRIST) for you to compare what is happening around you before you refer to unbelievers as my "fellow Christians"

MaxInDHouse:

You don't even know the real meaning of that group name "CHRISTIANS"

Well you need more enlightenment!

People who goes out to make noise in the streets disturbing the peaceful atmosphere are not followers of Christ! Matthew 12:19

People who support politics to pick up arms and start killing their neighbours including their own fellow believers are not followers of Christ! Mark 12:31 compare to John 13:34-35

People who welcome contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines are not followers of Christ! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10

Now go back and figure out who are the true followers of Jesus the man called CHRIST because it's from that title the group name CHRISTIANS was derived! Act 11:26

Thanks for your time!

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted is exactly what i've been trying to tell you, my God is responsible for what is written in the Bible but please don't quote Him and adding your own meaning simply because you don't want to see reasons with him.

I speak with the greatest honesty and sincerity that's why i never turned to rage like your so called mainstream believers {1Peter 3:15} Jesus taught us to be wise and harmless! Matthew 10:16

So it's you who needs to be honest, respectful and calm whenever you meet people who has a different view of what you thought you've figured out!