3nim:

Please
1b) A loving father lets his children burn in an ever-growing fire for all eternity for doing bad things. [b]Do you think that's a fair punishment?

Let's begin with you posting the scripture which says Hellfire was created to let Humans burn eternally.

Again, pls what is Justice? and what will you have very wicked men do as accountability for their wrong doing? shd they be led go free?

3nim:

1c) How does spiritual paternity change? First you are a child of God, and then you when you decide to become "evil", you also become the child of the devil. This means that being a child of God is only figurative spiritually. I used to think that it was spiritually true.

Joshua:24:15
[b]And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Romans:6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?[/quote]
Who you belong to or serve is your personal prerogative. Satan can only beacon on you with enticing offers, and YHWH will also offer you eternal life, whom you choose is the side you'll belong.

That a believer falls into sin, doesn't automatically mean he/she has switched sides. It is when he/she remains in that sin enjoying it without any guilt. then satan will make him/her do things which ultimately cause him/her her salvation.

Hebrews:10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

quote author=3nim post=63569148]
2) How did Jesus really enter the story...was he created by God? Or was he also God (catholic trinity ideology) and he took part in creation? I mean before he was born of the virgin Mary..[/quote]

Good News Translation John 1:1-5

In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

From the very beginning the Word was with God. Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him.

The Word was the source of life, and this life brought light to people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has never put it out.
I believe even a baby can understand what is meant there.

3nim:

3) About that tree in the Middle of the garden, Eden....the question is just WHY? God could have planted a mango tree, why did he plant the one that was not to be touched? And the one that could damn humanity?
3b) Maybe he did that to "fulfil" the scriptures. Did he?

There two specified trees in the middle of Eden, why didn't humans eat from the other one?

Remember, they weren't told not to eat from the Tree of Life, why did they leave the Tree of Life, to eat from the Tree they were told not to eat from?

3nim:

3c) What really are the scriptures then ? I thought the scriptures came after the men who, sort of, documented them (this is like the egg before the chicken or the chicken before the egg)

This is not clear. pls be more clearer.

quote author=3nim post=63569148]

4)[b] Does God really like stories? [/b]because honestly, Bible stories have made some really good movies.
He knew it was ALLL going to happen. So what was his plan? did he think he'd be wrong at some point and that humans wouldn't sin anymore? HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON WOULD HAVE TO DIE AND HE KNEW IT. He let it happen. Most of his creation/children would end up in hell and he knew it. Adam and What's up with this?[/quote]
You believed the Word of God to just be mere stories? Can you see what is predicted there coming to pass on earth today?
Take the prophecy of the exile of Israel for example. Didn't it happen in 70AD?
What about the Trampling of the Holy City of Jerusalem by the ungodly gentiles? has it happened? Can you see a Mosque in the Most Holy place of YHWH? lol. do you think it's a coincidence?

What about their return to their Land? did it happen?

Prophet Ezekiel prophesied that nations shall gather headed by Gog and Magog against Israel in a manner that Israel will seem vulnerable with no one to help, but when these nations moves to attack her, they will see the red eye of YHWH. look at the UN today and see if that prophecy is coming to fulfillment.

Do you think the Bible is a story book? Wait for it.

butterflyl1on:

Please try and use your knowledge of English to understand some aspects of scripture alright?

I always do this

You quoted the scripture I used so let me post it again

1 John 3 (NIV)
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

The term KEEPS ON SINNING or according to King James it says CONTINUES IN SIN. It shows you that doing away with sin is a pruning process for some while for others it's immediate.

This means that after giving your life to Christ, you either stop sinning, one type of sin at a time or all at once. But in what way? Does this refer to new power of Christ in you that lets you resist temptation, or does it refer to your own effort to resist temptation? I hope you can understand my question here.

Some stop lying but still steal. Some do not lie or steal but still hate, some do not hate but still fornicate. However the moment we realize that we just sinned and we repent, then we are not expected to return TO THAT SIN.

Well now I understand that the verse didn't refer to sin in general, as I had thought, But the different categories of sin.

david whose example you used has it on record that he NEVER REPEATED A SIN. Then moment he repents, he departs from it and this was why God said he was a man after his heart.

I've taken note of this now

Davids repentance was always a broken and a genuine one

I remember my own mother telling me that this was the reason why David was a man after God's heart.

...so try not to lie about scripture.

I never tried to lie about the scripture.

It is better you say you did not research it properly or understand your research than to say

This is a better way to put it please.

"he kept wandering further from the truth"

I believed this because the Bible shows how David progressed from one sin to another. From adultery to having Uriah killed. But he did repent, and these sins fell into different Categories.

even when the Bible is freely available for you to research and see the truth in black and white about David.

And it was the Bible I read as a christian.
I am not bringing out point just because I want to contradict you. If I remember a passage that I feel contradicts what you said, then I post it here. And then you could clear up any confusion, like you did above.

I personally had a big problem because I felt the word in the Bible did not add up. I read it, but as you imply, I might have not been able to figure out the true meaning of anything I read.

3nim:

I always do this



This means that after giving your life to Christ, you either stop sinning, one type of sin at a time or all at once. But in what way? Does this refer to new power of Christ in you that lets you resist temptation, or does it refer to your own effort to resist temptation? I hope you can understand my question here.



Well now I understand that the verse didn't refer to sin in general, as I had thought, But the different categories of sin.


I've taken note of this now


I remember my mother telling me that this was the reason why David was a man after God's heart.


I never tried to lie about the scripture.


This is a better way to put it please.



I believed this because the Bible shows how David progressed from one sin to another. From adultery to having Uriah killed. But he did repent, and these sins fell into different Categories.



And it was the Bible I read as a christian.
I am not bringing out point just because I want to contradict you. If I remember a passage that I feel contradicts what you said, then I post it here. And then you could clear up any confusion, like you did above.

I personally had a big problem because I felt the word in the Bible did not add up. I read it, but as you imply, I might have not been able to figure out the true meaning of anything I read.

Correction again please. Sin does not have CATEGORIES. sin has actions. All sin is the same but individual sinful nature makes sin to be itemised just like in that scripture and in my explanation that one can lie and then stop lying but still hate and then stop hating and lying but still fornicate etc.

I am glad you are now receiving understanding. More questions from your well of doubt are welcome.

analize701:

Good morning. I am not offended, no am not.

i went through your Op and felt if all of us people of faith comes in there responding all at once since we were all mentioned, the place will be to noisy and crowded, hence, i decided to step back.

But if you want me to select what concerns YHWH and YASHUA in your Op, then i will do so.

And, Yes, i had a very good Christmas, and hope you did too?

Yes, I did

butterflyl1on:


Correction again please. Sin does not have CATEGORIES. sin has actions. All sin is the same but individual sinful nature makes sin to be itemised just like in that scripture and in my explanation that one can lie and then stop lying but still hate and then stop hating and lying but still fornicate etc.

I am glad you are now receiving understanding. More questions from your well of doubt are welcome.

I actually had to read this slowly to wrap my head around it.

I know "all sin is equal".
You have said that Sin is itemized due to the individual sinful nature.

... that one can lie and then stop lying but still hate and then stop hating and lying but still fornicate etc

In this example though, the individual still sins but just with different sinful nature*s?

It means that the person still lives in Sin, since it doesn't really matter what it is, sin is sin, all sin is the same.
telling lies= sin
hating=sin
fornication= sin
Doing one, two or all three of them, the individual would still be living in sin.

The person still continues in sin.

I'm sorry you have to touch this topic again bacause I could not understand it/\.

butterflyl1on:


I am glad you are now receiving understanding. More questions from your well of doubt are welcome.

This was also a question:

3nim:


This means that after giving your life to Christ, you either stop sinning, one type of sin at a time or all at once. But in what way? Does this refer to new power of Christ in you that lets you resist temptation, or does it refer to your own effort to resist temptation? I hope you can understand my question here.

Thank you

analize701:


I think you should say what you mean by blindly.

When I say following blindly, I mean:

*that they could be passive christians;
*they might only hold the christian faith (wheteher or not they go to church or read the Bible) because they were brought up in christian homes;
*they have not actually made a conscious and personal decision regarding their faith or belief;
*they only believe in what their parents did, and on what the people in the church do. And because almost everyone around them is christian;
*some of them actually have questions (I know a lot of this) they wonder if the great flood ever did happen, they wonder if God is actually real, they wonder a lot of things but they DO NOT look any further into the matter because they don't want to go to hell. (I am not making up this point)

3nim:




I actually had to read this slowly to wrap my head around it.

I know "all sin is equal".
You have said that Sin is itemized due to the individual sinful nature.



In this example though, the individual still sins but just with different sinful nature*s?

It means that the person still lives in Sin, since it doesn't really matter what it is, sin is sin, all sin is the same.
telling lies= sin
hating=sin
fornication= sin
Doing one, two or all three of them, the individual would still be living in sin.

The person still continues in sin.

I'm sorry you have to touch this topic again bacause I could not understand it/\.

What makes one to commit these "individual" sins is the presence of a sinful nature in man but as we take in more of Christ and his word then we become willing to let go of these "individual " sins which are from our sinful nature.

However effort is never overlooked by God as he judges INTENT and knows that you wish to become a pure soul but "slowly" just like David.

If someone pushes me to the point of lying and I feel bad about it and repent genuinely and do not repeat such then I am making progress towards perfection.

There is no INDIVIDUAL SINFUL NATURE as you allude. What my comment meant was individuals having their own individual sinful acts thus making it necessary to ITEMIZE SIN such as lying, stealing, cheating, fornication, drunkenness, etc.

So each should handle and fix whatever category they fit into.

3nim:


This was also a question:



Thank you

Nobody has the power to resist temptation. Temptation is of the devil and he came to kill, steal and destroy but Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil and to give us life and this, more abundantly.

The only way to overcome temptation is through Christ and knowledge of his word. The spirit of God leads us according to the word of God and can never lead us outside the word so the spirit of God would never lead us into temptation.

As many as are led by the spirit of God are the sons of God.

When the spirit of Christ comes upon you, his nature comes in you and he now empowers you to begin to live righteous. Sometimes it is not instant and depends on what extent you have submitted to him.

analize701:


Okay then, let the questions begin

It will be nice if you do not use the 'Turn the other Cheek' Cliché to sound rude to a Christian but expect no reaction. Let's do this respectfully.

I understand. I didn't even think of that while typing the sentence.

You mean being called deluded or a fool for believing in God is not meant as an insult? Well, let my answer to that individual not consist an insult too.

Of course, that is an outright insult. Please reply in any way that satisfies you. I don't even want those comments here.
I mean that a question like "why do you believe in something that doesn't exist?" Some people might find that offensive and might even take it as an insult.

The devil is a bigger bigger father to who?

The way to heaven is narrow. At the end, only a small percentage of people would enter God's kingdom. His children.
The majority that ends up in hell...wouldn't it make up the children of the Devil? Meaning, at the end, the devil would have more children? This is how I see it.

analize701:


You are very right about doubts springing up as a result of 'Unanswered' questions. I almost became one of those 'One-less-Christian', until i by instinct decided to read Jesus for myself. I didn't even have my own Bible, i borrowed it and i almost chewed it up literary when i encountered Jesus for myself. All my questions received answered and all my doubt dispersed.

I've had a number of Bibles. I never overused them. But while I was still in secondary school, I started to read a chapter a day....I even prayed before doing that, so I'd understand.

Not just that. I prayed for basically everything, using Mathew 7:7 and Mathew 17:20.
I prayed for missing socks to appear, I prayed for rain to run away so that my clothes outside could dry.
I found the socks, the sky went from grey to sunny. And I praised God. Quite funny because the socks were just in a place I hadn't checked before, and the weather was just the weather.

I willingly gave my life to Christ like 5 times. The very last time was at one of the past RCCG camp retreats. I actually started feeling very "holy". I went back home and decided to really get serious, starting with the Bible.
I don't know why I never noticed the contradictions before. It's a long story how I realised that charity begins at home. I had been afraid of the thought ending up in Hell. I also didn't want my loved ones going there. I loved Jesus only because I heard he loved me... I made testimonies out of the most minor things. Meanwhile there are non-believers winning lotteries. I've seen Christians die before their prayers got answered. What happened to Mathew 7:7?

I found out people always try to give explanations, (if they even decided to answer your question). But they unconsciously twist some things at timess, to suit their own understanding. I said "UNCONSCIOUSLY". I was guilty of that. I've felt like I had the strongest connection with Jesus once. But don't pity me for losing it. I personally believe that I had a strong imagination, and i should have been worried about it. I could have argued for days that everything was real.

If my parents were muslim, I would have been muslim.
If they were Pagans, I would have been pagans.
If they were satanists, i would have been one too.

That's just my yarn.

But when the Holy Spirit sees your yearning to know Him, He opens you up.

hm....I don't want to use myself as an example here. You might not even agree with me.

I knew about Meditation in New Age, i wanted the experience, i felt Christianity had no such thing, but i asked the Holy Spirit for insight to his Words and, over time the Word began to speak back to me, then i knew what meditation is and knew that the New Age meditation is a Farce.

I can say it spoke to me too (because I was sure it did), but you also might not agree with that.

In the law of Nigeria, someone who stole, will he be petted or thrown in jail? Will such a person be celebrated for his crimes or be made to pay for it?

How much more the holy and righteous God and Judge of heaven and earth? God is too holy to overlook our disobedience...

This is were CHRIST features in the picture. CHRIST is our shield against the holy wrath of GOD. Those who are not in CHRIST are in wrath of GOD, wether anyone thinks is fair or not.

[quote author=3nim post=63621967]


I understand. I didn't even think of that while typing the sentence.



Of course, that is an outright insult. Please reply in any way that satisfies you. I don't even want those comments here.
I mean that a question like "why do you believe in something that doesn't exist?" Some people might find that offensive and might even take it as an insult.


The way to heaven is narrow. At the end, only a small percentage of people would enter God's kingdom. His children.
The majority that ends up in hell...wouldn't it make up the children of the Devil? Meaning, at the end, the devil would have more children? This is how I see it.
[/quote

Non of God's children will end up in hell, for HE will not loose any of own.

Let me finish with the Op before responding to other posts.

3nim:

1a) [b]Who are the actual "children" of God? (...multiple choice)
(a) the devoted followers only
(b) the partial followers and the devoted ones
(c) the People in India who grew up believeing in Krishna, a god with blue skin, gods with multiple arms (apparently they should go to hell for this)
(d) Mentally deranged ("mad" ) people
(e) all of the above, infact every human being[/b]

analize701:

What is the name of this God pls.

Yeshua

analize701:

BUT, let me answer from the Christian perspective.
...
1b. Who is a devoted follower? A devoted follower of what or who? Jesus is looking for disciples not followers.

Matthew:7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So can people actually cast out demons using the name of Jesus, without being known by Jesus?

The followers who have motives and hidden agendas for following, will be told ' I know you not', al though they performed miracles or magic in Yashua's name.

Same question as the one above. false prophets and fake pastors claiming to work for Jesus. How do they cast out perform miracles in the name of Jesus?

Yashua did not say be devoted, He said, 'If you love me, keep my commandments. Are they keeping his commandments?

I don't actually think "devoted" is a wrong word. His disciples will still be devoted followers of him.

c. It's important you tell us if Krishna and YHWH are the same deity.

Krishna is a deity in the Hindu religion, which is widelly practiced in India.
As God is to christians, so is Krishna to those who practice Hindu.

I included this as an option ...There are people who grow up believing in Krishna and worshiping him very passionately. Some of them know nothing about God and they have no idea who Jesus is. They are not children of God then...Where do these people stand on judgement day?

d. Mad people are demon's possessed. We saw that in cases where Jesus cast them out and restored the sanity of the victims.

Question is, how did they get to the point where demons took their bodies as host?

Two opposing spirits can't indwell one particular vessel. Demons are darkness, The Holy Spirit is light, thus, they can't take the same host as a dwelling place.

I really do not agree with this but I don't have points to debate with.

e. Every human is YHWH's creation, but not all are his children, as most are rebellious, wicked and on Satan's side.

what does this word "wicked" really mean?

The Lord Knows his Sheep, and he is known by his sheep.
Matthew:25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

The thing is, The lord knew the number of goats and sheep that he had from the start. Yeshua is ominiscient. He knew the exact number of his creations that will not make it to heaven. He still gave his creations freewill and the chance to make the right choice. But From the start, he knew the number of people who will not make the right choice. So was he expecting these "wicked" people to change their ways? Once he creates a person, he can tell if that person will make heaven because he is ominiscient. So right now, he already knows where a new born baby will end up. Why does he do all this?

I hope i can squeeze out time to respond to the remaining points

3nim:

at pain and suffering, really.
5) God is all powerful?
(a) Why didn't he crush Lucifer them one time? Instead of letting him tempt his children....[/b]Like
(b) [b]In fact, he could have deleted sin from existence or made humans have no desire to sin. Why didn't he?

Yes, God is all Powerful. Meaning He has the prerogative to do any thing whenever, wherever, to whomever. He has the power to answer when you call, or ignore you. He can kill you and can save you. He can not be stopped by anyone.
He is the Lord of the Earth. No subject has the power to demand answers or explanations to the actions of the King in his territory.

The Earth is the Lords, and everything that is in it...
He has the sole right to destroy Lucifer, but He chose to leave him as long as He has determined.
But He didn't leave you at the Mercy of Lucifer

I wish you can open a thread for this point only.

God is all powerful, but, He put laws in place that will check even Him the Law giver, that's exactly what He did with Adam.

God put Adam in charge of the earth. All power and authority at his disposal, but what he (Adam) didn't have was restrain, control.
[b] You have the absolute power to do anything, but decides not to do it on your own volition.

God wanted Adam(Man) to learn control. And this has been man's problem till date. Control.

Immediately a man feels he can get away with anything, he goes wild.

e.g. The law says, Thou shall not steal, but hunger pangs are not removed from you. You are very hungry, you see someone's money which you can use to buy food, no one is watching, what ahd you do?

Shd you walk away or take the money?

Control. You are made a supervisor of your own self.

You wished Sin was deleted? But there was no Sin until Pride came in. Who will you blame for Sin, God or You?
God took up flesh to save you from Sin, in the Person of Jesus, you have rejected Him, but blame Him for the consequences of the actions you take.

Sin is a spiritual disease just like Cancer or HIV is a disease of the body. Leaving in Sin is like injecting yourself with infected blood, it will take over your immunity and eventually kill you.

This is something you do to yourself, you can't blame anyone for it.

quote author=3nim post=63569335]
6a) Innocent people, children, CHRISTIANS die horribly daily.[b] Is this his will or is he waiting for the right number of people to die before he saves his children ?[/quote]
hahahahahahahaha. If only you know that there's nothing like death to God or in the real sense of it.

My dear. what man calls dead or ceasing to exist on this plane is not what it is to YHWH. When you cease to exist here, you exist with Him or without Him.

And, Christians dying is a call yo return home. The Bible talks about us going home often.

Nobody dies, you just change realms.

3nim:

Now lets get to the smaller things
The whole contradictory book.
I don't understand how people keep reading it like it's all rosy and fine in there.

When that Book begins to speak back to you, you'd change your words. Until then...

The Word of God is alive and it speaks. When it begins to speak, an illumination you get from just one verse, if you pick a pen to write, you'd cover four fulls cap pages. It happens to me often.

3nim:

7) Does he have multiple personalities? God of love-God of war, God of vengeance-God of mercy. Vengeance and mercy stand on 2 opposite sides of the spectrum.

Lolzzzzzz. Wow. these are his attributes. His characteristics. not personalities.

3nim:

(8 ) Is the Bible 100% accurate? Could it really be God's or Jesus's words? Did the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John literally carry their "pen and paper" everywhere ? ...I mean you have quoted statement after quoted statement in the Bible.

About the Bible being accurate or not, you have already passed a no vote of confidence to it by calling it a story book and contradictory. Let's go further. No need dwelling on what you have condemned.

3nim:

10)(a) Explain God's take on rape and why I should understand it.

YHWH is not a Democrat. He doesn't rule by popular opinions. He explains nothing to anyone. He gives out an invitation, you are not interested? Find.

Personally. i know that YHWH is against Rape. If a man rapes a woman, that man is made to marry that woman and will not divorce her. He will bear the mark of shame and ridicule he brought to the lady.

3nim:

(b) Explain his take on me being able to sacrifice my own child willingly and blindly in obedience to him ( here I get the answer that God wouldn't give me a temptation that is too big for me. well...)

Does the child belong to you? Did you know how he got into you? Can you give anyone life?

Can you stop any calamity from happening to the Child by your strength and wisdom?

Have you not heard that Children are God's Heritage and he gives them to whomever He chooses?
No man can give life to another human, hence. the robots.
The Child you have it's a gift from God, that's why its called the fruit of the womb.

If Man can give life, then there would have conquered death.

3nim:

11) Do you believe that a LOOOOOOT of Christians are just afraid of hell?

Do you know that a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of people are sitting in church, but don't know the S in salvation if they saw it?
Why will anyone who is redeemed be afraid of going to Hellfire? Are they doubt of their salvation?

Where did they see that Hellfire is even created for human beings.

3nim:

12) [b]How can you really know that Jesus spoke to you or touched you or convince someone else of it? The usual answer here, is "I just feel it", which does not convince me. I'd like a writing on the wall, or a mark on my arm. Feelings fade sometimes. If I had the writing on the wall and someone else could confirm I am not hallucinating, then that would be awesome.

lolzzzz. Okay, keep waiting for God to do your Will.

3nim:

13) Why does it seem like God isn't keen on saving his children from the flames of hell

Which of His Children are you talking about?

3nim:

? If he were we would all be saved by now, tbh. Instead, he lets people do the work, he definitely knows they won't all succeed. Even when people seek him, they don't find him, contrary to his word in Matthew 7:7 (I held on to this so much)...there have been people who sought his presence or help in their lives. MOST did not get answers....The explanation I get to this is that the people don't seek long enough... okayyyy

I'm sorry to say this to you, but with your attitude, you can never hear God even if He spoke with megaphone.

You are proud, disrespectful, and arrogant towards God. Can you address your earthly father in this manner?

3nim:


When I say following blindly, I mean:

*that they could be passive christians;
*they might only hold the christian faith (wheteher or not they go to church or read the Bible) because they were brought up in christian homes;
*they have not actually made a conscious and personal decision regarding their faith or belief;
*they only believe in what their parents did, and on what the people in the church do. And because almost everyone around them is christian;
*some of them actually have questions (I know a lot of this) they wonder if the great flood ever did happen, they wonder if God is actually real, they wonder a lot of things but they DO NOT look any further into the matter because they don't want to go to hell. (I am not making up this point)

Every day one of us crosses over, i guess when we also cross over, we shall know.

Apostle Paul said, Now we know things in part, but when we meet the Master, we shall know wholly as YHWH knows us.

Good luck as you wait for your time to come.

analize701:


You are proud, disrespectful, and arrogant towards God. Can you address your earth father in this manner?

Lol. Are you sure you didn't find my post offensive?

analize701:
Let me finish with the Op before responding to other posts.

I hope i can squeeze out time to respond to the remaining points

Please do whatever you're comfortable with

analize701:

I wish you can open a thread for this point only.
.

You mean for the power of God? What he can do and what he chooses not to do?

@ butterflyl1on this also answers your question.

analize701:

YHWH is not a Democrat. He doesn't rule by popular opinions. He explains nothing to anyone. He gives out an invitation, you are not interested? Find.

Personally. i know that YHWH is against Rape. If a man rapes a woman, that man is made to marry that woman and will not divorce her. He will bear the mark of shame and ridicule he brought to the lady.
.

That is the exact passage I have a problem with.

You have already summed the whole story up though, by saying Good doesn't rule by popular demand. So I shouldn't expect him to do a thing just because I think it's the better way. Who am I to do that?

My thought on this was: Why would God's law force require a rape victim to marry her attacker?

So a man can pay a father for raping his daughter. It's like an advanced version of paying bride price.

He will bear the mark of shame and ridicule he brought to the lady.

I don't see how this would be any worse for the attacker than it would be for the poor rape victim, who would have to spend the rest of her life with a rapist.

I initially used the word "force" but you've made it clear that God doesn't force anyone.

God's word stands forever and ever, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong- maybe he decided not to stand by that testament anymore). That means that this law still applies today.
So I'm guessing any government or judge would be wrong four sending rapist's to prison. Instead they should collect the equivalent of 50 pieces of silver from him and get ready for a wedding.

analize701:
I hope i can squeeze out time to respond to the remaining points

Where did they see that Hellfire is even created for human beings.

I haven't actually thought of this before.

I never said Hell was created for humans, but it might (I'm sure you know me and misinterpretations by now) be written that human souls still go there.

REV. 20 (ESV:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

analize701:

Does the child belong to you?

well...

Did you know how he got into you?

If I gave you a scientific explanation, would you think that of it as trash?

Can you give anyone life?

NO

BUTTTT
back to that my science...
You must have heard of in vitro fertilization (IVF)
The concept of it actually allows a child (an embryo) to be made outside a woman's body, by human Doctors. And then the doctors put the child into the woman's body...

Sometimes the IVF fails. Sometimes

Anyway, In a way, I can say that Life was made by men and a child was placed in the mother's body , by men.
It has been happening for years. I have actually wondered if God actually considers this a sin??

Can you stop any calamity from happening to the Child by your strength and wisdom?

Am i that strong? or that wise?

It depends on where you are sometimes. Death rates are relatively low in countries like Singapore, Qatar, Finland, though not low enough, because it is death.

The way people die in Nigeria, would most times be avoided in these Countries.

If Man can give life, then there would have conquered death.

That could be very correct.

bloodofthelamb:

In the law of Nigeria, someone who stole, will he be petted or thrown in jail?

The person may be thrown in Jail. The sentence may vary, depending on what was stolen. I don't think you can be convicted for stealing a pencil.

Will such a person be celebrated for his crimes or be made to pay for it?

Made to pay for it.

How much more the holy and righteous God and Judge of heaven and earth? God is too holy to overlook our disobedience...

So he sends makes the sinners spend ETERNITY in a lake of fire?

The 2 cases we have here are almost as far apart as the poles.

In one:
you have a loving God, who created the sinners. He knew that they would be sinners;
The pumishment lasts for eternity;
The punished spend eternity weeping, moaning and gnashing teeth;
All sin is...equal. So not just the ritual killers and terrorists go to hell, so do liars as well.

In the other case,
the court and the convicted usually have no relationship...at least not one like creator and creation.
The conviction can last from a few months till as long as the person lives.
The conditions are still comfortable enough. No fire, no tormenting demons
The crimes a person has to commit here to receive any serious punishment are usually considerablyserious.

This is were CHRIST features in the picture. CHRIST is our shield against the holy wrath of GOD. Those who are not in CHRIST are in wrath of GOD, wether anyone thinks is fair or not.

There are a lot of people who will die without being in Christ.

I've mentioned this in a previous comment. There are currently people practicing the Hindu religion. One of their deities is the god, Krishna. In Hindu, Krishna is loved the way Jesus is loved in Christianity. Just imagine how you feel about Jesus. Someone somewhere else in the world feels the same way about Krishna. They believe that he loves them and he created them...they don't have a burning lake for sinners. I don't know if you heard of his Krishna before, but there are followers of Krishna who know nothing about Jesus.

Will they also face the wrath of God for not being in Christ?

And do you think that the eternal punishment for sinners is fair? I just really want to know what people think of it.

NO

BUTTTT
back to that my science...
You must have heard of in vitro fertilization (IVF)
The concept of it actually allows a child (an embryo) to be made outside a woman's body, by human Doctors. And then the doctors put the child into the woman's body...

Sometimes the IVF fails. Sometimes

Anyway, In a way, I can say that Life was made by men and a child was placed in the mother's body , by men.
It has been happening for years. I have actually wondered if God actually considers this a sin??



Am i that strong? or that wise?

It depends on where you are sometimes. Death rates are relatively low in countries like Singapore, Qatar, Finland, though not low enough, because it is death.

The way people die in Nigeria, would most times be avoided in these Countries.


That could be very correct.

[/quote]

3nim:

If I gave you a scientific explanation, would you think that of it as trash?

No, i won't think it as trash if it's independent of any tissue or cell in an already existing human.
If the scientific explanation will be completely Scientific, i'll take it.

3nim:

well...


If I gave you a scientific explanation, would you think that of it as trash?


NO

BUTTTT
back to that my science...
You must have heard of in vitro fertilization (IVF)
The concept of it actually allows a child (an embryo) to be made outside a woman's body, by human Doctors. And then the doctors put the child into the woman's body...

Sometimes the IVF fails. Sometimes

Anyway, In a way, I can say that Life was made by men and a child was placed in the mother's body , by men.
It has been happening for years. I have actually wondered if God actually considers this a sin??



Am i that strong? or that wise?

It depends on where you are sometimes. Death rates are relatively low in countries like Singapore, Qatar, Finland, though not low enough, because it is death.

The way people die in Nigeria, would most times be avoided in these Countries.


That could be very correct.

IVF is artificial insemination which takes from already existing humans created by God. Pls i need a scientific laboratory human completely independent of any cell or tissue from a human.

You mean Men made life and placed it in a woman?
Are you really being serious or you are playing with me?

Are we talking about stopping death or controlling mortality rates?

I'm talking about conquering it totally.

Has Science discovered why we sleep?

We have a drug which can induce sleep, anyone to wake us from sleep?

My dearest, Scientists only try to understand why, and how of things. They can not do more than discover what is already there.

3nim:

I haven't actually thought of this before.

This will be long, but pls read it because there's a question there for you.


My dear, God never created Hellfire for any human being. It is rejection of Life that leaves man with death. Not physical death, but Spiritual.

Let me briefly explain why some men will end in hell, and that will be by their sole choice.

Let's go back to Eden and start from there.

Do you know what it means to be created in God's image and Likeness?

To understand that, you'd have to answer the question, Who is God?

The only person who knows YHWH enough to tell us who He is, is Jesus. And, in John 6:24, He told us that YHWH is a Spirit and that those who will worship Him most do so in Spirit too, not physically, because spirits answer to spirits, and flesh to flesh.

Now that we know who God is, the next question shd be, What or who is a Spirit?

A Spirit is first immortal (Lives forever), He is invincible (Indestructible), and invisible(Can not be seen with physical eyes).

What then is the image of God?
immortal, Invincible and invisible.

If this is the image of God, then it most mean that this is the image in which he created man.

What then is the Likeness of God in man? It is His consciousness, His creative abilities.

Gen 1:27 says YHWH created male and female and called them MAN. This happened in tje realm of the Spirit.
In Gen 2:7, we saw God taking the substance in the realm of the material (Mud), to give man a form, a physical body, because His intention was for man to dwell on earth,hence, Man needed a body to enable him interact with his environment.

YHWH the took the Spirit He had created in his image which was Spirit and put in the mud He had formed, there was an alignment or a sync between that Spirit and the formed body, Man rose up a human being and began to move about.

But, there he was with a mandate to dominate the earth, subdue it. procreate and fill the earth, but he had no consciousness to enable him recognise things around him, hence the Likeness was imputed to him.

When he was given Consciousness, he knew to name everything around

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Genesis:2:19

But when man rebelled against God, the link which connected him with God was removed, thus, Man was left without a Spiritual life source, hence, he died spiritually.

Without that connection, man became a mortal being, completely flesh, no Spirit. Now, if man dies without that Spirit, he is left outside of God's realm of dwelling.

This is why Jesus Came, to connect us back to that Life Source. And, we can connect back only if we connect to Him. (This is bringing tears to my eyes) What love the Master has for me?

When we connect to Jesus, our dead spirit gets resurrected. It's all to enable us enter the kingdom of God when we die because, no flesh can enter that kingdom, and Man is totally flesh.

Now, if you 3nim, die without that part of you alive, you can't enter the Kingdom, no one tells you where to.go, you just know. It's like a dress code, if you are not probably dressed, you don't go trying to gate crash.

Now, Christ is offering that life freely, but to get it you must drop the rebellion that satan instigated.

But, if you keep rebelling and died without the New Life only Christ can give, and you end up outside of God's kingdom, will you say God send you to Hellfire?

God sends no one to hellfire. Anyone who goes there chose to go there by rejecting eternal Life.
If you reject Life, what will you be left with?

3nim:

I never said Hell was created for humans, but it might (I'm sure you know me and misinterpretations by now) be written that human souls still go there.

Yes, the souls who will go there are those who insists on working against themselves, because, working against God is working against yourself.

Pls connect now, we have no guarantee for life. It is a temporal gift which was given without our consents and it will be taken without our consents too.

This is what we say and people say we threaten them with Hellfire. No, it's becos we have the revelation of these things, so we warn people to escape as we did.

Satan hates you, the reason is because, the same Sin you commit and are forgiven, is the sin he committed and hellfire was created for him. The only way he can hurt YHWH is to take you down to hell with him and make YHWH watch you burn in the same hell.

When i realized that when i sin, i take sides with satan against God, which will ultimately work against me, i made a conscious effort to stop.

No one takes fire to his chest, and not be burnt.

3nim:

You have already summed the whole story up though, by saying Good doesn't rule by popular demand. So I shouldn't expect him to do a thing just because I think it's the better way. Who am I to do that?

As much as His words are standard procedure, He still invites you into a round table talk in case you are not satisfied with what he has presented to you. He says you shd bring your strong reasons why you disagree and let us reason them together.

Isa 41:21.
You have already summed the whole story up though, by saying Good doesn't rule by popular demand. So I shouldn't expect him to do a thing just because I think it's the better way. Who am I to do that?

Isa 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

When you humble yourself, He listens and then explains, but with arrogance? you get nothing.

3nim:


That is the exact passage I have a problem with.

Okay, Let's look into it. lol.

If i tell you were i have my own problem with eh.
Yes, i have issues with certain things.

3nim:

My thought on this was: Why would God's law force require a rape victim to marry her attacker?

As a lady this law supports you. Unlike in Islam where a Lady is expected to produce 4men who witnessed her being raped, or she'll be stoned to death for lying against a man. imagine inviting 4 Men to watch you being raped so that you can have witnesses. smh.

When a woman gets raped, she becomes an anathema, a curse, damaged goods. No man will touch her ever again. Imagine the reproach? But the man goes on with his life without any worries, but you the lady remains in your fathers house, and in your father's house you get nothing in terms of inheritance.
Making the rapist marry his victim and keeps him married to her is Justice for the woman. because, he can not not defile her and leaves her for another man who will never touch her.

If the man found her appealing enough for sex, he shd find her appealing enough as a wife.

YHWH is a God of Justice. Allah is against women.

3nim:


So a man can pay a father for raping his daughter. It's like an advanced version of paying bride price.

This is bad even for my ears. I can't imagine this scenario. pls, spare me this. I can't deal with it.

3nim:

I don't see how this would be any worse for the attacker than it would be for the poor rape victim, who would have to spend the rest of her life with a rapist.

Who then will marry her, becos no other man will marry her. If she says no to the marriage, she leaves alone, worst case scenario, her family rejects her because of the stigma, where will she go? Maybe become a prostitute?

3nim:

I initially used the word "force" but you've made it clear that God doesn't force anyone.

No, He doesn't. We choose.

3nim:

God's word stands forever and ever, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong- maybe he decided not to stand by that testament anymore). That means that this law still applies today.
So I'm guessing any government or judge would be wrong four sending rapist's to prison. Instead they should collect the equivalent of 50 pieces of silver from him and get ready for a wedding.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Like i've said, We either choose to follow and obey or rebel and live with the backlash. Men believe they can administrate the earth better than the creator of the earth, so, He stepped back and is watching us mess ourselves up. But, when we get to where we can't go no further, when we cry out, He sends help. But we must do the crying first.

3nim:


You mean for the power of God? What he can do and what he chooses not to do?

Yeah.

3nim:


Lol. Are you sure you didn't find my post offensive?

You know, (I want to believe you are African(?)), We respect our parents and those we know are elders so i find it offensive when a younger person is disrespectful to an elder, now as humans o. How much more God?
Even if you don't believe in Him, it's dangerous to be like that, because you may just find yourself standing before Him sooner than you think.

I think am also guilty in this, because i have no reason to be rude to Lucifer if Holy Angels are not.

As much as he is the enemy of Man, i don't have the right to deride him. i shd leave him to his creator.

Angel Michael never used any negative rude word against him when they met over Moses body.
Michael came to take it up to heaven, satan was there to take it down to Hades with him, but Michael only rebuked him in the name of YHWH, nothing else.

Rudeness shd not be found in my character no matter who am addressing, love shd.

Let's be careful about following the crowd.

If you sin against me, i might not punish you the way an army general will, if you err against him.

Likewise, the great and mighty GOD cannot punish HIS offenders the way a mortal man will do his.

The throne of the eternal GOD is founded upon righteousness and justice and not upon love. If He let sinners of the hook without proper payment{death} , He{GOD} will err and thereby making Himself a sinner...

God's love was and is displayed through CHRIST JESUS HIS SON. Regarding those who have not known CHRIST. I believe every man will have his chance in CHRIST JESUS even the Krishners, for GOD is just and fair.

analize701:

Sorry, I'm a Christian not a religious person.

Well done. short and to the point !!!!
Finally 2017 is the year when Atheist will make their final attempt to prove their belief in NO-god.

The burden of proof rest squarely on Atheists from here on. They believe in NO-god. Yet has not proved this to date.
They instead beg world religions to prove that God exist then deceptively turn like a rabid dog to attack and rend all holy doctrines.