Edeyoung:


See am trying to be neutral here am not here to find who just own the word oba

But am here to try to ascertain if benin and ife ever existed

Its not because yoruba are saying the word oba means king in Yoruba land that makes it correct

So many yoruba title can serve as king especially olu,

Why did oromiyan name benin king oba the exact title for kingship in yoruba land

The word oba should have been the king of ife title and not necessarily ooni if we are to believe ife is the originator of Yoruba people and thier language
The royalty of ife should be called oba from the start and not ooni because they are the owner and the originator of the word. then why would oromiyan name a strange tribe that came to ask for a king the original title for king in to a strange tribe...

samuk:
[/b]

You mean this sort of common heritage as described below by fellow Yoruba historians.

You guys come here daily trying to use Benin to whitewash and unify yourselves. Former slaves and sacrificial goats are all forming princes and Omoluabi from Ife.

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

babtoundey:
Another annoying thing that is daily paraded here is [b]there was nothing like "Yoruba" until year 2020. [/b]Who actually cares to know that? That was was never a term of name that bring all Yoruba together until recently doesn't mean the different people inhabiting the present day Yoruba land were oblivious of one another.

Many things that transcend name bond the Oyos, egbas, ondos, Ekiti, Ijeshas, Owus etc. They related as brothers with common history, ancestor, culture, social, religious and political values.

scholes0:


I swearrugad that seems to be another cheap "go to" argument that they use these days when all other options are exhausted.
They be like " hat is Yoruba" there was no Yoruba in 19--Gbirigidim. as if all the different clans of Yorubaland fell from the sky.

All these people have always existed and were aware of one another. The small Yoruba faction in Delta North whhich came from the eastern flank of yorubaland are known as Olukumi. Not so shockingly Yorubas in diaspora which mostly descend from people who were from the Western flanks of Yorubaland are also known as Lucumis in the Americas. ... Wo waiit.... so these people actually existed prior to 1800? "Pretending to be shcked'

babtoundey:


You sound pained, bittered and possessed. That must have been the result of your various fruitless effort to manipulate history and tell it the way you want. Your describing "omoluabis" with many opprobrium terms is nothing to worry about. After all you've called your oba and his ancestors liars, betrayals, deceptors and mordern Judas with faulty sense of dignity. So, why must I be bothered?

So, you now believe Samuel Johnson and other Yoruba historians? Are they not the ones that colluded with the Oba to favor the Yoruba and debase the position of the "Oba"? Once a clown..

Ijebu, Egbas, Awori, Ado, Owu, Ekiti and other groups in the present Yoruba group share common heritage; they all are children of kaaro oojira. There was no point in time when one of those groups existed isolation.

babtoundey:


You sound pained, bittered and possessed. That must have been the result of your various fruitless effort to manipulate history and tell it the way you want. Your describing "omoluabis" with many opprobrium terms is nothing to worry about. After all you've called your oba and his ancestors liars, betrayals, deceptors and mordern Judas with faulty sense of dignity. So, why must I be bothered?

So, you now believe Samuel Johnson and other Yoruba historians? Are they not the ones that colluded with the Oba to favor the Yoruba and debase the position of the "Oba"? Once a clown..

Ijebu, Egbas, Awori, Ado, Owu, Ekiti and other groups in the present Yoruba group share common heritage; they all are children of kaaro oojira. There was no point in time when one of those groups existed isolation.

Edeyoung:





See am trying to be neutral here am not here to find who just own the word oba

But am here to try to ascertain if benin and ife ever existed

Its not because yoruba are saying the word oba means king in Yoruba land that makes it correct

So many yoruba title can serve as king especially olu,

Why did oromiyan name benin king oba the exact title for kingship in yoruba land

The word oba should have been the king of ife title and not necessarily ooni if we are to believe ife is the originator of Yoruba people and thier language
The royalty of ife should be called oba from the start and not ooni because they are the owner and the originator of the word. then why would oromiyan name a strange tribe that came to ask for a king the original title for king in to a strange tribe...

babtoundey:


That's where you got it wrong. Oranmiyan did not his child Oba. Whoever, rules, presides and dominates is a king. Oranmiyan himself was the king. So when he left, his child became king (oba)

samuk:


The position of the Oba of Benin is never debased whichever way you look at it. Whether you look at it from the Ife perspective or the Benin royal perspective, it puts the Benin royal stool in an enviable position which is different from people that were sacrificed to the gods by Benin as recorded by Yoruba historians themselves.

TAO11:


The word "Benin" and the word "Edo" are latter words too.

Their point is meaningless.

cc: babtoundey

TAO11:


Even you yourself are afraid to say that the word "Olu" means "King" --- Proving that you're simply struggling to deceive yourself, but you're also looking for who to assist you deceive yourself.

Oranmiyan should have used the Chinese word for "King" since he is a Chinese. Continue.

And who said the royalty of Ife was called Oba only halfway and not from the start?? These children sef.

Having been beaten black and blue on another thread, you came down here struggling and trying hard to deceive yourself.

May God help you to deceive yourself. Amen!

samuk:


The position of the Oba of Benin is never debased whichever way you look at it. Whether you look at it from the Ife perspective or the Benin royal perspective, it puts the Benin royal stool in an enviable position which is different from people that were sacrificed to the gods by Benin as recorded by Yoruba historians themselves.

babtoundey:


That's where you got it wrong. Oranmiyan did not his child Oba. Whoever, rule, presides and dominates is a king. Oranmiyan himself was the king. So when he left, his child becames king (oba)

scholes0:


lol... there is an Ijebu in Owo Ondo state.. There is an Ijebujesha in Osun state. There are Owus scattered across Osun, Ogun, Oyo and Kwara. There are local Obas known as Owas in Osun, Ondo and Ekiti. There are Ogboni groups all over Yorubaland even up to Akutupa and Agbaja in Kogi near the Niger river. There is an Ife Odan, Ife Olukotun in Kogi, and another one ifetedo close to Oke -Igbo in Ondo state. There is no group that does not know who or what Ogun (The god) is. At the centre of every Yoruba town is the Oba's market.
There is no Yoruba group that does not know what is an "Ebora" from Jebba in Kwara down to the Forcados Delta.

Any difference that exists between any two Yoruba groups is not up to 1/10th of the commonalities. That is why it is VERY VERY hard for any Yoruba group to wake up tomorrow and for any reason say theya re not Omoluabi.

Edeyoung:


How did the child knows the word oba

TAO11:


Oh, do you mean the same Edo clans who trace their genealogy back to the ape that raped an Ogiso's wife??

Moreover, stop trying hard to white-wash your Obas now, after you all have dragged them in the mud --- claiming that they are all liars, betrayals, cheats, deceptors and mordern Judas with faulty sense of dignity who stooped low to lick Oonis' boots for political gains.

babtoundey:


Keep whining.
You would have loved it if it was Benin prince that gave Ife it's first king, ruling system, the gods they worship and amed their kingdom. That is a feat you will never attain and that is the reason why you're jumping up and down to thinker with the truth.

babtoundey:


Keep whining.
You would have loved it if it was Benin prince that gave Ife it's first king, ruling system, the gods they worship and amed their kingdom. That is a feat you will never attain and that is the reason why you're jumping up and down to thinker with the truth.

Edeyoung:


How did the child knows the word oba

TAO11:


Even you yourself are afraid to say that the word "Olu" means "King" --- Proving that you're simply struggling to deceive yourself, but you're also looking for who to assist you deceive yourself.

Oranmiyan should have used the Chinese word for "King" since he is a Chinese. Continue.

And who said the royalty of Ife was called Oba only halfway and not from the start?? These children sef.

Having been beaten black and blue on another thread, you came down here struggling and trying hard to deceive yourself.

May God help you to deceive yourself. Amen!

Edeyoung:



Sorry if i said it wasnt from the start i corrected my self in one of the mentions

(1) Ife is the cradle of Yoruba race but why the word oba meaning king not used as a title for kingship instead of ooni which does not mean king


(2) Why is it only the oba that was buried in ife

TAO11:

Stoooooooooop!!! Don't finish poor samuk na!

If you finish him, who will I now flog!?

Remain something for me oo

babtoundey:


Your question is ludicrous. How did you come to know your very own name and its meaning?

How does a child born few years ago know the family praise of his father and great grandfather.

So that Oranmiyan left means he left with everyone he was there with?

babtoundey:


lol.

It is nice seeing you flog him up and down. One thing is just palpable; no matter how hard you try, he will not stop believing his fairytales. He seems to have chosen ignorance and arrogance as his closest pals

Edeyoung:


Good point

Lets assume he didnt come with anyone maybe he told the benin people to crown his son oba
Nice


If he crowned the his son oba then what was the title he crowned the oba of benin

Because every yoruba bears oba as king and have thier title like ooni of ife, olu of ibadan
I. e ooni of ife oba adeyeye ojaja 11
Ooni representing title then oba representing king

So then what is the title of the oba of benin

TAO11:


The word "Benin" and the word "Edo" are latter words too.

Their point is meaningless.

cc: babtoundey

Edeyoung:


Again

Oromiyan should have name the title of benin ruler olu i. e Lord of benin instead of a general name for king in Yorubaland like naming a car vehicle instead camry or benz

Maybe oromiyan did that to show benin is the real king since he was the only one that got to bore the original title king
Dont you see it.....

OgboAto:


Permit me to add these.

samuk:


Trust me, I will feel the same way as you, if I had grown up to read the history that says my people were once sacrificed to the gods, especially if it was written by historians from my tribe/ethnicity.

You also seem to be saying Yoruba historians write fairytales.

If you are claiming that Yoruba historians write fairytales and Yoruba history is full of fairytales, then no one should believe anything that come from the Yorubas.

(1) That's the whole point, "sub-groups" --- In other words there is still some distinct identity despite belonging to the same broader group.

So, the "insults" are coming from outside that sub-group as your copy & paste have debunked you by mentioning that the Ijebus never had such to say about themselves.

(2) I am not sure where you manufactured it from that Johnson was a historian and that he belonged to the Ijebu subgroup.

On the contrary, the historian (Tunde Oduwobi) also mentioned in your copy & paste also agrees with me that the "insult" is from outside of the sub-group.

Moreover, Johnson was simply collecting different traditions floating around regardless of which subgroup is narrating it, and about which subgroup it is being narrated.

(3) Ife origin = White washing.??

Although this claim of yours is without any evidence or basis as usual, yet it shows that you somehow admit the primacy and ascendancy of Ife somwhere within you.

samuk:


Trust me, I will feel the same way as you, if I had grown up to read the history that says my people were once sacrificed to the gods, especially if it was written by historians from my tribe/ethnicity.

You also seem to be saying Yoruba historians write fairytales.

If you are claiming that Yoruba historians write fairytales and Yoruba history is full of fairytales, then no one should believe anything that come from the Yorubas.

babtoundey:


Africa and the culture of human sacrifice goes handinhand. Even your ancestors were once sacrificed at the alter of ogun to placate and please imported gods.

TAO11:


Saying "Oba" is not used as a title for Kingship is as pointless and absurd as saying:

"King" is not used as a title for Kingship.

Ooni is a praise term meaning "One who owns", "Oba" means "King".

Claim that this is too difficult for you to understand calls your education into question.

(2) Because Igodomigodo is not Yorubaland. So the ritual practice of bringing back heads is to serve as a strong ritual reminder of this fact.

Other Yoruba Obas already live and rule at home.