Mr_Anony:

Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. Luke 22:3-4

of all quotable scriptures,you quoted luke who wrote based on hearsay.the same luke whose accounts of paul's conversion on the road to damascus are conflicting.the same luke who never met jesus.quote from mark and only mark

Mr_Anony:
Have you investigated what the AA is founded upon?

perhaps you can educate me

Zikkyy:



Jo have you considered the possibility that these so called Christians were already possessed prior to conversion? Look at the possibility that they have not been truly or fully won over. They might appear to be Christians having shown that they believe, but are they truly born again? Maybe the deliverance sessions might help. You've said in some posts that a Christian cannot possess by demon. The post above contradicts that statement. I agree with the statement that Christians can be influenced. I don't agree that they can be possessed (Unless they lose that status).

If a man believes in Jesus Christ as lord and confess him openly ,he is born of God, I didn't use the word posses for a christian. A christian either spirit filled or not cannot not be possessed by the devil. He is Gods possession . But it is possible for demons to inhabit a christian in his body. It is possible to cast out a demon out of a christian. It is even possible to cast out a demon out of a pastor who even minister to others . The question now is how can a demon gain acces to a christian.

Zikkyy:

Is the lady in question the wife, girlfriend/prostitute?

[quote author=Zikkyy][/quote]

It doesn't matter, Demon is demon , either in wife or prostitute, sex is a covenant .

1 Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

That's correct Joagbaje, I have also have witnessed a devil being cast out of a born again christian. I knew this person prior to that experience.

[
[i]

Delafruita:
have you given thought to the fact that judas was only doing his part in fulfilling the destiny of yoshua and that without judas you wont have the salvation you cherish?

Someone must betray jesus but His name wasn't printed on it. He had a choice. Just as some people must to hell or lake of fire. But your name is not printed there you have a choice.
Satan looks out for people that nature his attitude and character. He picked the serpent because the serpent was originally thickish

Genesis 3:1
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. ?

He came for Peter because of his instability but Jesus sustained him in prayer.

Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted,


He would have had his way on Jesus if he has his way but Jesus had nothing of him inside.

John 14:30
. . . . for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Demons are attracted by conduct ,thought habit which lines up with Satan character

I have grown sick, very sick of all this nonsense. What is wrong with you, my brother, Joagbaje? I mean no disrespect, but what is all this "I have witnessed...", "it is possible...", "what about when..."? Can you not, independent of all these very questionable reports, show how from the Bible how (1) a Christian is something other than one who has the Spirit of Christ? and (2) it is possible for such a person to come under any kind of demonic influence?

I want to see Scriptures, rightly dissected and clearly explained. I don't want to hear how many women rolled on the floor after you commanded a demon to leave their body. I don't want to hear that there are differences in demonic influence. I don't want to hear that I'm trying to win an argument. I want to hear that such and such places in the Bible said this and that and, by the operation of reason under the power of the Holy Spirit, it means this and not that.

If you cannot do this, stop what you're doing. I do not accept that Christianity be treated as though nothing in it were to be questioned and clear answers demanded from it.

If you intend to use Ananias and Sapphira as the basis for saying what is possible and not possible to the Christian, first show me beyond question and from the Bible that they indeed were Christians. If you cannot do this, stop using them as examples of Christians.

If you are going to use Scriptures like those isolated verses you have kept quoting to show that Satan's power can touch the Christian, then indicate readiness to answer questions that indicate a contradiction between them and other parts of the Bible.

I hate dodginess and this territoriality I see displayed when I try to talk with another believer. Are you, Joagbaje, afraid of having to give up your ministry (if you have one)? Face the Scriptures and discover whether or not your position is in the Spirit of Christ or not. Whatever you might stand to lose by doing so is nothing compared to the gain that awaits obedience to the Lord.

If you weary me anymore with dismissive arguments that hold no water, I will leave you to yourself. I am nothing in myself, but I do not care for a prolonged war of words and interpretations with anyone, believer or unbeliever. With a believer, I do not love to leave things with a question mark upon them but, I won't force issues either. I hope you understand me, my brother.

For instance, the case of the Christian who sleeps with a demon-possessed woman. You quoted 1 Cor 6:16, now show me how that place showed that a Christian can be afflicted by a demon in the body of such a woman. Also show me how that place showed that it is possible for a Christian to sleep with such a person.

Mr_Anony:
@Zikky, sorry I disagree with you. Spirit-filled is not something we attain, It is a gift the father gives to us immediately we get born-again.
Jesus says in John 14:23: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I have never heard of a christian that is half-filled with the Spirit.

There is a challenge with the use of the word "SPIRIT FILLED". There's is a diffference between receiving the holygjost and. Being full of the holygjost.
My observation , we use SPIRIT FILLED. for SALVATION and seriousness we also use it for RECIEVING of the spirit and for BEING FILLED with the holygjost. These are three different experiences

A man may be saved for many year and not relcieve the holygjost. Or the INFILLING of the spirit . Which is an endowment of power like the Pentecost day experience. This is a one time experience. You receive the holygjost After salvation.

But to be spirit filled is an ongoing experience. . After you might have recieved the holygjost . You get your self full of the holygjost on regular bases. It's like charging yourself up like a battery.


Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

The Greek word used here does not indicate a one time experience. But a regular continuous experience. In Acts 2 , The early church recieved the spirit as a one time experience at Pentecost but there were other instances when they get filled with the spirit again and again like acts chapter 4

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.


We continuously get filled again and again by prayerrs in the spirit ,worship ,speaking in tongues etc. anything which edifies us can cause FILLING again and again.

Ephesians 5:18-19
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit.
19 Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [ and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord,

Ihedinobi: I have grown sick, very sick of all this nonsense. What is wrong with you, my brother, Joagbaje? I mean no disrespect, but what is all this "I have witnessed...", "it is possible...", "what about when..."? Can you not, independent of all these very questionable reports, show how from the Bible how (1) a Christian is something other than one who has the Spirit of Christ? and (2) it is possible for such a person to come under any kind of demonic influence?

I want to see Scriptures, rightly dissected and clearly explained. I don't want to hear how many women rolled on the floor after you commanded a demon to leave their body. I don't want to hear that there are differences in demonic influence. I don't want to hear that I'm trying to win an argument. I want to hear that such and such places in the Bible said this and that and, by the operation of reason under the power of the Holy Spirit, it means this and not that.

If you cannot do this, stop what you're doing. I do not accept that Christianity be treated as though nothing in it were to be questioned and clear answers demanded from it.

If you intend to use Ananias and Sapphira as the basis for saying what is possible and not possible to the Christian, first show me beyond question and from the Bible that they indeed were Christians. If you cannot do this, stop using them as examples of Christians.

If you are going to use Scriptures like those isolated verses you have kept quoting to show that Satan's power can touch the Christian, then indicate readiness to answer questions that indicate a contradiction between them and other parts of the Bible.

I hate dodginess and this territoriality I see displayed when I try to talk with another believer. Are you, Joagbaje, afraid of having to give up your ministry (if you have one)? Face the Scriptures and discover whether or not your position is in the Spirit of Christ or not. Whatever you might stand to lose by doing so is nothing compared to the gain that awaits obedience to the Lord.

If you weary me anymore with dismissive arguments that hold no water, I will leave you to yourself. I am nothing in myself, but I do not care for a prolonged war of words and interpretations with anyone, believer or unbeliever. With a believer, I do not love to leave things with a question mark upon them but, I won't force issues either. I hope you understand me, my brother.

Stop getting personal. Gods word doesn't require fight . Truth is truth. And stop misquoting me deliberately for sentiment . I never said devil has power over Christians. A chrristian who yields himself to the enemy can fall pray to affliction. . He opens the door to the enemy

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Can I ask you a question? Do Christians fall sick, do some Christians experience something pressing them in the night and the struggle to shout Jesus ? If you're not aware of such things go and find out. We live in a real world. What do you say about a christian woman that always experience a being coming to have sex with her. Some in the dream, some physically . The speak in tongues but the experience continues. In some cases . When a woman gets pregnant when ever this Spirit being have sex with her she will have miscarriages in the morning. . If you're not knowledgeable about this, it's simple. Imminent sense to find out instead of the merry go round. A christian has authority over the devil .as long as he stays in the word of God. You can't go having sex with prostitutes for example and expect thing to work out well .. There will be invasion .

Joagbaje:

There is a challenge with the use of the word "SPIRIT FILLED". There's is a diffference between receiving the holygjost and. Being full of the holygjost.
My observation , we use SPIRIT FILLED. for SALVATION and seriousness we also use it for RECIEVING of the spirit and for BEING FILLED with the holygjost. These are three different experiences

A man may be saved for many year and not relcieve the holygjost. Or the INFILLING of the spirit . Which is an endowment of power like the Pentecost day experience. This is a one time experience. You receive the holygjost After salvation.

But to be spirit filled is an ongoing experience. . After you might have recieved the holygjost . You get your self full of the holygjost on regular bases. It's like charging yourself up like a battery.


Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

The Greek word used here does not indicate a one time experience. But a regular continuous experience. In Acts 2 , The early church recieved the spirit as a one time experience at Pentecost but there were other instances when they get filled with the spirit again and again like acts chapter 4

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.


We continuously get filled again and again by prayerrs in the spirit ,worship ,speaking in tongues etc. anything which edifies us can cause FILLING again and again.

Ephesians 5:18-19
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit.
19 Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [ and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord,

On the surface, you'd have been right, but indeed there's more than just the surface.

I don't know any Greek or Aramaic, but that they were filled with the Holy Ghost in the place you spoke of after they had prayed does not come across to me as "they were refilled..." or "they were again filled..." What I sense there is more an awareness again, like a remembering and getting back into the consciousness, that they were filled with the Spirit.

The place that spoke of being filled with the Spirit rather than with wine comes across to me more like "don't go getting drunk on wine, leading to debauchery, for it doesn't befit you who are filled (contrasting being filled with wine) with the Holy Ghost".

And no, again, it is not possible for a man to be saved and later be filled or receive the Spirit. I have already shown the Scripture on this. Feel free to question the correctness of using the Scriptures I did by indicating Scriptures that disagree.

Joagbaje:

Stop getting personal. Gods word doesn't require fight . Truth is truth. And stop misquoting me deliberately for sentiment . I never said devil has power over Christians. A chrristian who yields himself to the enemy can fall pray to affliction. . He opens the door to the enemy

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Can I ask you a question? Do Christians fall sick, do some Christians experience something pressing them in the night and the struggle to shout Jesus ? If you're not aware of such things go and find out. We live in a real world. What do you say about a christian woman that always experience a being coming to have sex with her. Some in the dream, some physically . The speak in tongues but the experience continues. In some cases . When a woman gets pregnant when ever this Spirit being have sex with her she will have miscarriages in the morning. . If you're not knowledgeable about this, it's simple. Imminent sense to find out instead of the merry go round. A christian has authority over the devil .as long as he stays in the word of God. You can't go having sex with prostitutes for example and expect thing to work out well .. There will be invasion .

The way I see it you really do not read my posts, do you? At least, you don't read all of it.

You have not in any way founded all these reports on the Bible. You have not shown how a Christian's opening the door to the enemy is something different from coming under the power of the enemy. You have not shown how even that "opening the door" is possible from the Bible. You have persisted in throwing out Scriptures without showing their relevance to the subject under study and how they prove your position to be true and correct.

You have continued to dismiss expressed concerns about your position. And to treat with utmost disrespect and disregard these concerns.

@ mr Agony, who art thou?

trying: @ mr Agony, who art thou?

I know not who Mr Agony is

Delafruita:
of all quotable scriptures,you quoted luke who wrote based on hearsay.the same luke whose accounts of paul's conversion on the road to damascus are conflicting.the same luke who never met jesus.quote from mark and only mark

If you are going to argue based on the bible, then you must assume it is true else we have no basis for argument.

Delafruita:
perhaps you can educate me

The AA is based on Christian principles. The founder was a christian, and If you read the 12 steps, they describe the steps for a sinner coming to salvation. In fact the only thing that has changed in the AA today is that for the sake of political correctness, they have changed the name "God" and replaced it with "a higher power".

wow, great discussion. i some time read in the bible were it say ( he who is joined to an harlot is one body,and he who is joined with the spirit is one spirit) . reflecting back to this whole trend. why did the bilble use the word JOIN WITH THE SPIRIT? is it saying that a man who already is born again can still be joint with the spirit,or is it refeering to a man that is not born again. if thats the case what about the joining with the harlot.
realy guys am learning a lot.

Mr_Anony:
@Zikky, sorry I disagree with you. Spirit-filled is not something we attain, It is a gift the father gives to us immediately we get born-again.
Jesus says in John 14:23: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I have never heard of a christian that is half-filled with the Spirit.

Your post above indicates two different events; one is when you get born again you receive a gift, the other is when you continue to obey Christ teaching he will make his home with you. My post relates to the second bit, it's a something you have to achieve. The gift you receive immediately you get born again does not make you a robot directing your every move.

Delafruita:
have you given thought to the fact that judas was only doing his part in fulfilling the destiny of yoshua and that without judas you wont have the salvation you cherish?

It could have been some other person.

Delafruita:
doesnt this show that god can cause some people to do evil i.e. judas just to accomplish his goal?and in such cases,no demons are involved?

consider the bible verse below (special focus on verse 8 );

1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

To say no demon was involved will not be correct. To say God cause Judas to do evil may not be correct.

Joagbaje:
If a man believes in Jesus Christ as lord and confess him openly ,he is born of God, I didn't use the word posses for a christian. A christian either spirit filled or not cannot not be possessed by the devil. He is Gods possession . But it is possible for demons to inhabit a christian in his body. It is possible to cast out a demon out of a christian. It is even possible to cast out a demon out of a pastor who even minister to others . The question now is how can a demon gain acces to a christian.

That's what the bible says. Can you vouch for everyone that says "i believe, i believe"? Only the one that searches the heart determines those that are saved/born again. It is not for you to decide, you can only assume the 'Christian' is born of God, you can only assume that the pastor is born of God.

Joagbaje:
A christian has authority over the devil .as long as he stays in the word of God. You can't go having sex with prostitutes for example and expect thing to work out well .. There will be invasion .

The reason why i asked if the lady in your illustration was the wife or prostitute. So what if the lady is the wife? will there be invasion or infection with demon?

Zikkyy:

Your post above indicates two different events; one is when you get born again you receive a gift, the other is when you continue to obey Christ teaching he will make his home with you. My post relates to the second bit, it's a something you have to achieve. The gift you receive immediately you get born again does not make you a robot directing your every move.

The question is now; How can you be born-again without obeying Christ? You don't "achieve" obedience to God, you simply obey Him.

Mr_Anony:
The question is now; How can you be born-again without obeying Christ? You don't "achieve" obedience to God, you simply obey Him.

Obedience is not a one time event, abi? What happens after the person becomes born again?

Mr_Anony:
You don't "achieve" obedience to God, you simply obey Him.

If it was that simple there would be no need for Paul's letters to the various churches urging them to stay on track. In fact a large chunk of the new testament will not be available today if all the requirement was 'simply' to become born again.

Zikkyy:

Obedience is not a one time event, abi?

I don't quite get what you mean by the question. As far as I know, obedience is both a one time and a continuous thing if God says come, you come. If he says go, you go. If God says come and go 100 times, you must come and go 100 times. 99 is not good enough
......."If you love Me, keep My commandments"

Zikkyy:

Obedience is not a one time event, abi? What happens after the person becomes born again?

He walks in continuous obedience

Zikkyy: If it was that simple there would be no need for Paul's letters to the various churches urging them to stay on track. In fact a large chunk of the new testament will not be available today if all the requirement was 'simply' to become born again.

That is why it is called the narrow way..........and few are they that find it

Mr_Anony:
I don't quite get what you mean by the question. As far as I know, obedience is both a one time and a continuous thing if God says come, you come. If he says go, you go. If God says come and go 100 times, you must come and go 100 times. 99 is not good enough
......."If you love Me, keep My commandments"

Good. Now you are getting the gist. I like the quote you put up there:

"If you love Me, keep My commandments"

He did not say "i will make you keep my commandment". It is not a 'must' that you keep the commandment. The spirit will not force you to do his will.

Mr_Anony:
He walks in continuous obedience

Can you help with some explanations on the following bible verse:

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk.

1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

Take your time. Am not in a hurry. Thanks.

Mr_Anony:
That is why it is called the narrow way..........and few are they that find it

Using the word 'find', you again indicate it's a conscious effort. Maybe you can rephrase to say " and few are they that are 'led' to the narrow way" i no get wahala with that one. Please note am not here to argue, but only to state my point of view. Don't forget to help with my request on those bible verses. Thanks

Zikkyy:

Can you help with some explanations on the following bible verse:

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk.

1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

Take your time. Am not in a hurry. Thanks.

Those verses are simple, They describe who we ought to be as Christians and not what we ought to do to acheive some level of Christianity.
Christianity is a character/lifestyle. You simply start by obeying God and then with time, it becomes easier and easier to obey Him. But obey Him you must do. whether it is hard for you or easy you. The beauty is that the Holy Spirit is there to help.
To walk in disobedience means you are not born-again.

Zikkyy:

Using the word 'find', you again indicate it's a conscious effort.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matt 7:14 KJV
Jesus' words not mine.

Mr_Anony:

Those verses are simple, They describe who we ought to be as Christians and not what we ought to do to acheive some level of Christianity.
Christianity is a character/lifestyle. You simply start by obeying God and then with time, it becomes easier and easier to obey Him. But obey Him you must do. whether it is hard for you or easy you. The beauty is that the Holy Spirit is there to help.

Thank you. I rest my case.....

Edit: Sorry, one last word

Mr_Anony:
The beauty is that the Holy Spirit is there to help.

...if you subject/submit/allows.

Zikkyy:

Thank you. I rest my case.

Lol, you are welcome.....I just hope you haven't read something else other than intended sha

Mr_Anony:
Lol, you are welcome.....I just hope you haven't read something else other than intended sha

Nope.