Nr anony, I think you are redefining Faith as simply trust. However I will accept it as yours.

How does it affect Christianity?

Mr_Anony:
Faith in something that is not true is what we call insanity or blind-faith.

How then do you determine that yours is true and the others false ?

Faith must be reasonable else it is not valid.
To put it simply, 'to have faith' simply means 'to believe'

Having determined the truth, wouldnt that then nullify "faith" or "belief" ? Wouldnt that then be "knowing" or "knowledge" ?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The Babel Fish

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with the nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

Douglas Adams
The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Universe

To put it another way good pleb @anony, imo, faith indicates there is a chance of failure. You could use faith when you are not sure of the results. My trust in nature is not faith-like as nature doesn't fail.

Random: This relates to why objective is better than subjective when possible ie when dealing with other sentients as with regards to rights etc. And no, things like eugenics are not the objectively better option. You are correct when you reason that I think we do need to set initial parameters when it comes to morality and I think human rights (like the un's defined) are these. Many feel strongly about this (rightfully), and that's part of the reason you get heat on the morality issue. In fact, they don't think they should have to point it out to others, human rights as the basis for ethical codes should be self-evident. If they have to point it out to x it sort of implies that x would be some sort of mass murderer were it not for indoctrination (just like those who are religious because they fear hell fire *smh*). So what if indoctrination required x fly a plane into a building, he'll just do it? I really, really, don't think I should have anything to do with anyone who thinks remotely like that. Just how arrogant could one be to think that their faith-based religious beliefs are more important than human lives or rights? Many times said beliefs are not even theirs, as they are simply blindly doing what they've been programmed to do by their indoctrination

That said, it's important to keep some perspective and not get carried away despite how distasteful the alternatives being presented may be. Frequently 'rightful' people have committed the most heinous crimes.

Your concerns are legit as to "who gave us these rights?", "Are we sure they are the best option?" Etc. But to many, the answers should be glaringly obvious.

This is just random btw

jayriginal:

How then do you determine that yours is true and the others false ?

By putting faith to test, you can tell if it is true. One good test is a logical test

Having determined the truth, wouldnt that then nullify "faith" or "belief" ? Wouldnt that then be "knowing" or "knowledge" ?

agreed, but then what is faith if not foreknowledge e.g. you believe that if you throw a ball up, it will come down. You can only 'know' this after you have thrown it up.

I don't get your rant about the babel fish.

@mr anony

How is Faith tested? Also since faith is some form of sincere trust, what's its epistemological value??

Kay 17: Nr anony, I think you are redefining Faith as simply trust. However I will accept it as yours.

How does it affect Christianity?

Kay 17: @mr anony

How is Faith tested? Also since faith is some form of sincere trust, what's its epistemological value??

Christianity is faith in God and Jesus Christ His Son.
If you read my reply to Jayriginal, I suggested a method of testing faith.
What is faith's epistemological value? I can't give a specific answer.

^^
And the justification for such faith?

Kay 17: ^^
And the justification for such faith?

Jesus Christ: His life, His death, His resurrection

Mr_Anony:
Jesus Christ: His life, His death, His resurrection

Oh no you didn't

wiegraf:

Oh no you didn't

Oh yes I did

Mr_Anony:
Oh yes I did

Lol. What should the default be when people agree to disagree?

Why believe in Jesus' Resurrection and his teachings

Kay 17: Why believe in Jesus' Resurrection and his teachings

Why not?

Mr_Anony:
Why not?

@Anony
"Why not" Muhammed or any other religious figure.

Kay 17: @Anony
"Why not" Muhammed or any other religious figure.

Amongst many other things, no other such figure has managed to solve the problem of sin

Isn't the concept of sin reliable on the christian view of God?

Kay 17: Isn't the concept of sin reliable on the christian view of God?

Sin is moral evil, it is not exclusive to any particular view of God. It is a human problem.

Hmmmmm.........

Ihedinobi: Hmmmmm.........

Bros, correct me where I may be erring?

Mr_Anony:
Sin is moral evil, it is not exclusive to any particular view of God. It is a human problem.

Defined by God isn't it

Kay 17:

Defined by God isn't it

Dude, let's cut the chase here, does moral evil exist in your worldview? yes or no.
If yes, how is it dealt with?
If no, do you have a concept of justice and morality at all?

Mr_Anony:
Bros, correct me where I may be erring?

Sure......don't think there'll be need to though

Mr_Anony:
John said: "Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God and whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

Jesus said: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Jesus said: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another, by this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

john said this....jesus said that....wen were u born to no wen john n jesus said wot n wot...i might as well quote darwin,etc...stupid bunch of deluded fools

My requirement would be that this 'God' actually exist. And. Have. A. Verifiable. Way. To. Know.He .Exists.

In the Spirit of Xmas and everything Godly

Bump...

^^^ "re-bumped"