@ pilgrim.1
-A veil is an article of clothing, worn almost exclusively by women, that is intended to cover some part of the head or face. As a religious item, it is intended to show honor to an object or space.
Here r some synonyms of veil
noun. 1. covering,cover,screen,camouflage,cloak,curtain,mask n shroud.
verb. 2 cover,conceal,hide n shield
-A burqa (also transliterated burkha, burka or burqua) (Persian: برقع) is an enveloping outer garment worn by women in some Islamic traditions for the purpose of cloaking the entire body. It is worn over the usual daily clothing (often a long dress or a shalwar kameez) and removed when the woman returns to the sanctuary of the household.

veiling is wat was made compulsory not burqa,burqa is just kind of veil.
pls refer 2 my post of yesterday4 2 citation on veiling (law n requirements).

@d house
-veilin ain't a tradition, refer to my last post it says tell "d believing women" this an address to all muslim women.
-on d issue of freedom of dressing:every society has laws n laws r meant 2b followed.being A muslim is not compulsary,so u cant say u agree 2 live 2d confines of a legal system (islamic) n choose which laws 2 follow,which 2 go against.
4d record i have never heard of a law that has never been broken b4,so islamic law aint an exception

@focused n olabowale
with all due respect stick 2d topic "islamic veil" why do muslim women wear burqa or hijab.if u guys need 2 move up,post a new topic so we don't derail.

my own be say i wont never be caught dead in one of those countries were they persecute women for not wearing all them veils upon veils. Whatever, just lay the damn message and let them choose their own part of righteousness. u dont ve to kill them or force them, U are not God so dont fcking judge them. . only the end shall tell.

@mukina2,
Quote from:Pilgrim1

Wearing "inscriptions" of the Christian cross does not therefore turn someone into an unbeliever - especially bearing mind that you were referring to "unbelievers religion"! To Muslims, it is the default thinking that Christians and Jews are "unbelievers", but this is a gravely mistaken idea that does not bear up at all when closely examined.

It doesn't turn one into an Unbeliever but it is forbidden in Islam well Pilgrim if you do not believe in Islam you beleive in something else I am sure non Christians are called Pagans right? So If you do not believe in Islam you are an Unbeliever. In that we hold different beliefs


Quote from:Pilgrim1

The Cross may be an offence to Muhammad. But have you carefully considered WHY Islam is so virulent against the Cross? What does it remind them of - and what are the implications of the Cross to Muslims?

Because Christians claimed Isa (as) was crucified on the cross. and in Islam it says in Sura An Nisa verses 157-159
". And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]:"

" But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allâh is Ever All­Powerful, All­Wise."

" And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allâh and a human being], before his ['Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew's or a Christian's] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he ['Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them."

Lol. . . like I said, Christianity is not to be adjudged as the "unbelievers religion" based on mere CULTURAL persuasions that have been crystalized into Islam. In as much as you do not worship CULTURE, what then would be the basis of using CULTURE as a the yardstick of referring to other religions as "unbelievers religion"? Cheesy

Pilgrim stop misunderstanding my post haba! I only refered to the Buqha and not to the veiling as cultural

These again may be special ways of identifying these groups of people and their persuasions. Now if a Jew identifies his "messianic" connection and hope in the davidic reign, does that necessarily account him as practising the "unbelievers religion"? That would be like asking him to jettison his Scriptures in order to appease the Muslim mindset. And that would be a huge problem for the Muslim to even contemplate. Grin

No one says wearing Clothes with Inscriptions on them automatically means the person is practicing the said religion . all i am saying that its Haram in Islam. Muslims would not wear clothes that has inscriptions of other religions on them .I have never seen it.
Each Religion respects their dress code ,The nuns and fathers have their own, the jews, Hindu and so on . everyone have their own .and cross dressing is not allowed . so Islam is no exception, if Muslims respect their dress code and refers to any other dress code that is simply unIslamic as of the unbeleivers religion . simply means they are non-muslims . their belief is very different from ours .

Actually, you have intoned that the dres code in Islam is a cultural thing, so I don't see why Islam should now seek to bend his neck to that rigid rule.

You are misunderstanding me again i meant the Burqa part is the Cultural thing .Most Muslims enforce it on their homes but it not Fard its sunnah

Pilgrim.1

The Cross may be an offence to Muhammad. But have you carefully considered WHY Islam is so virulent against the Cross? What does it remind them of - and what are the implications of the Cross to Muslims?

Are you ready to debate with me that early christians didnt use cross but used fish and it was brought into christianity by pagans and please what does the cross stands for according to your statement?

@babs787,

babs787:

Pilgrim.1,

Are you ready to debate with me that early christians didnt use cross but used fish and it was brought into christianity by pagans

How does that tessellate with my statement in your quote above? Was the symbol of the fish the point of offence to Muhammad?

babs787:

and please what does the cross stands for according to your statement?

I asked a question - when I receive answers, then I will oblige you. It is the typical modus operandi for Muslims to never answer questions before asking theirs.

@pilgrim

The Cross may be an offence to Muhammad. But have you carefully considered WHY Islam is so virulent against the Cross? What does it remind them of - and what are the implications of the Cross to Muslims?

Okay, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross

So I have decided to satisfy you first but note that we will dig deep into the origin of the cross and the symbol used by early christians and that the cross was brought into christianity by pagans!!

pilgrim1 . . . .and why is it dat christians "enjoy" wearing d cr0sS . . . . Thinking of what it stands 4. . .i.e they luv sh0wing the "so-called" crucificati0n (which never happnd ) but thats wht GOD (s.w.t) made the pagans believe. .as statd above by mukina2

What kind of religionis this?
A religion that harbor iniquities.
A religion that support idolatory
A religion that house terrorism.
A religion that respect no life of human
A religion that steal the peace of the world.
Oh Islam are you that bad or your men?
Oh Islam are you a confusinist or your people are unknowledgeable.
Is your founder not seing beyound 1 Km in vision to know,
Your seed will fall into a hard rock?

@dafidixone


Will you assist pilgrim.1 pending when she surfaces?

Here it goes again:

Okay, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross

So I have decided to satisfy you first but note that we will dig deep into the origin of the cross and the symbol used by early christians and that the cross was brought into christianity by pagans!!

@topic,

It's funny that in the Jewish tradition, a woman who covers her face is actually considered a prostitute. Genesis 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.

dragnet:

pilgrim1 . . . .and why is it that christians "enjoy" wearing d cr0sS . . . . Thinking of what it stands 4. . .i.e they love sh0wing the "so-called" crucificati0n (which never happnd ) but thats wht GOD (s.w.t) made the pagans believe. .as statd above by mukina2

How many christians do you see wearing the crucifix?

Lol. . . @davidylan,

davidylan:

How many christians do you see wearing the crucifix?

Perhaps dragnet was referring to Christians who wear the crucifix as a 'symbol' - whether as ornaments or jewellery. The point is that Muhammad's claims in the Qur'an are merely his own tales - and this will become all the more obvious on closer examination.

@babs787,

babs787:

Okay, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross

I offered questions - which are yet to be answered. You answer those questions first without pretences, then I'll offer you some pointers. When you guys wake up from this convenience game of [u]never [/u]seeking to address issues before asking your own questions, let me know.

babs787:

So I have decided to satisfy you first

You decided to satisfy me first - by deliberately ducking the questions I asked and then seeking to divert the subject into yet another recycled issue that has been thrashed? Well done!

babs787:

but note that we will dig deep into the origin of the cross and the symbol used by early christians and that the cross was brought into christianity by pagans!!

I hear. When we finish digging, I'll only be here to show you how Muhammad himself fabricated his tales on issues surrounding his so-called "revelation" in the Qur'an on his claims thereto.

babs787:

@dafidixone

Will you assist pilgrim.1 pending when she surfaces?

Could you kindly assist mukina2 pending when she re-appears in this thread?

Hi @ dragnet,

dragnet:

pilgrim1 . . . .and why is it that christians "enjoy" wearing d cr0sS . . . .

Not all Christians "enjoy" wearing the Cross; and there's nothing in the Bible against wearing symbols of the Cross as long as it does not translate into a religious rite of idolatry. Most Christians who wear symbols of the cross do so for a number of reasons - mostly to identify them as Christians, especially in an environment that is hostile to Christianity.

dragnet:

Thinking of what it stands 4. . .i.e they love sh0wing the "so-called" crucificati0n (which never happnd) but thats wht GOD (s.w.t) made the pagans believe. .as statd above by mukina2

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. The Bible clearly demonstrates the FACT of the Crucifixion in two ways:

(a) Biblical prophecies in the OT

(b) Biblical fuilfillment in the NT

If it never happened as is claimed in the Qur'an, what has 'Allah' said about the OT scriptures referring to the FACT in PROPHESY? Does 'Allah' give prophecies and hope that mankind never expects them to be fulfilled? What did 'Allah' make you believe about the same OT scriptures which he claimed he sent down and confirmed - particularly the Psalms of David (Sura 4 v 163 and 5 v 44)?!?

The tales in the Qur'an are merely Muhammad's denials of Biblical prophecies - and you cannot use Quraish denials to affirm that 'Allah' made the pagans believe anything! That was why I asked mukina2 those questions, and am still waiting for her answers.

Cheers.

@Tayo-D

Can you read 1 corinthians 11 v 3-6 and tell me what it contains?

@Pilgrim.1

This happened to be your last post:

Quote from: babs787 on January 03, 2008, 10:30 AM
Okay, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross

I offered questions - which are yet to be answered. You answer those questions first without pretences, then I'll offer you some pointers. When you guys wake up from this convenience game of never seeking to address issues before asking your own questions, let me know.


Quote from: babs787 on January 03, 2008, 10:30 AM
So I have decided to satisfy you first

You decided to satisfy me first - by deliberately ducking the questions I asked and then seeking to divert the subject into yet another recycled issue that has been thrashed? Well done!


Quote from: babs787 on January 03, 2008, 10:30 AM
but note that we will dig deep into the origin of the cross and the symbol used by early christians and that the cross was brought into christianity by pagans!!

I hear. When we finish digging, I'll only be here to show you how Muhammad himself fabricated his tales on issues surrounding his so-called "revelation" in the Qur'an on his claims thereto.


Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:46:24 PM
@dafidixone

Will you assist pilgrim.1 pending when she surfaces?

Could you kindly assist mukina2 pending when she re-appears in this thread?

And in my earlier post, I asked question but you said that I must answer you first :

Pilgrim.1,

Are you ready to debate with me that early christians didnt use cross but used fish and it was brought into christianity by pagans

How does that tessellate with my statement in your quote above? Was the symbol of the fish the point of offence to Muhammad?


Quote from: babs787 on January 02, 2008, 08:27 PM
and please what does the cross stands for according to your statement?

I asked a question - when I receive answers, then I will oblige you. It is the typical modus operandi for Muslims to never answer questions before asking theirs.

And my last post on same issue:

@pilgrim


Quote
The Cross may be an offence to Muhammad. But have you carefully considered WHY Islam is so virulent against the Cross? What does it remind them of - and what are the implications of the Cross to Muslims?

Okay, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross

So I have decided to satisfy you first but note that we will dig deep into the origin of the cross and the symbol used by early christians and that the cross was brought into christianity by pagans!!

Again, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross and when you provide your explanations, we will both into the origin of the cross, if it was used by early christians and whether it was brought into christianity by pagans or not

@babs787,

babs787:

Again, let me have why Islam is so virulent against the cross and when you provide your explanations, we will both into the origin of the cross, if it was used by early christians and whether it was brought into christianity by pagans or not

Have you offered an answer to the simple question I offered as to why the cross is an offence to Muslims?

You keep circling round the same issue when you have nothing to offer. You need not fret yourself and try to sound intelligent where you obviously are struggling with understanding simple issues. If you actually ahve nothing tangible to offer, please pack your worries aside and let others provide answers to the simple questions.

Cheers.

@pilgrim.1

Have you offered an answer to the simple question I offered as to why the cross is an offence to Muslims?

I dont know so you may provide answers to why the cross is an offence. Mind you, this happened to be your post on same:

The Cross may be an offence to Muhammad. But have you carefully considered WHY Islam is so virulent against the Cross? What does it remind them of - and what are the implications of the Cross to Muslims?

I am still here to satisfy you . Let me hear from you

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

I don't know so you may provide answers to why the cross is an offence. Mind you, this happened to be your post on same:

I am still here to satisfy you . Let me hear from you

As many times as you bring your games forward, my response will be the same:

pilgrim.1:

@babs787,

Have you offered an answer to the simple question I offered as to why the cross is an offence to Muslims?

You keep circling round the same issue when you have nothing to offer. You need not fret yourself and try to sound intelligent where you obviously are struggling with understanding simple issues. If you actually ahve nothing tangible to offer, please pack your worries aside and let others provide answers to the simple questions.

Cheers.

@dafidixone


Will you assist pilgrim.1 pending when she surfaces?

Only if you will tell me the first symbols of Islam before Crescent and Start. Also let me know if Momodu was the person that gave your current symbol try to quote the verse in the quran to back your proofs.

Then i will tell you where Cross became the symbol of christianity in the Bible.

Ok?

You will see that Pilgrim1 is always acting under the guide of Holy spirit before answering questions here! It is worth of emulation

dafidixone:

You will see that Pilgrim1 is always acting under the guide of Holy spirit before answering questions here! It is worth of emulation

Well, my caution has been Proverbs 29 v 20 --

Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

There is no need to be hasty in one's words - lest they celebrate foolishness. I have told olabowale every time to be careful with his hasty words. . . some people never learn until they finally find themselves face to face with the reality of that verse!

@pilgrim.1



Let me have your question

I knew you would predictably buy time and then come back after so many entries and claim the same thing: "let me have" this and that.

Babs, I just posted a rejoinder in a previous thread that I would no longer be putting up with your dribbling attitude.

I offered you just one question on John 1 v 1 - and instead of proffering straight answers, you ducked it with questions of your own. Is that why you NEVER have anything to say after Islam has been bleached clueless and colourless?

Enjoy the duplicity. The games do not work with me - and you can vex all you want for all I care.

@pilgrim.1

I offered you just one question on John 1 v 1 - and instead of proffering straight answers, you ducked it with questions of your own. Is that why you NEVER have anything to say after Islam has been bleached clueless and colourless?

You offered me question but have you been there to see my last post on same? Why not answer questions rather than avoiding questions. Go to that thread and please when you are through, let me know if something that is 'with' someone can still be that same person.

John 1v 1 will be exposed soon in that thread as we proceed but in order to deflect topic, can you supply me the question you said you have been asking me here?

@Dafidixone:

Only if you will tell me the first symbols of Islam before Crescent and Start.  Also let me know if Momodu was the person that gave your current symbol try to quote the verse in the quran to back your proofs.  
Then i will tell you where Cross became the symbol of christianity in the Bible.
Ok?
You will see that Pilgrim1 is always acting under the guide of Holy spirit before answering questions here!  It is worth of emulation

: IN any case, at lease Muhammad (as), is what I believed you were intending to write, right? At least, he was a Muslim. He prayed every prayer that you find the Muslims praying today! The five Salawat. The Sunnahs of every one of them. He made Tahajjud (the night prayers, from the time he became a prophet, to the end of his life. If he missed any night, it has been the will of his Lord that it was so, so that the conpanions and the later generations, can know that this is a possible condition). He fasted, gave Zakat and Sadaqah, made hajj and Umrah. He was the first from his brand of Islam, as it is a completed Islam to believe in ONE SINGULARLY LORD OF ALL CREATIONS!

The other side is Christianity and its relationship with Jesus. There is none! I need not give you the blow by blow. I already gave you a neck shot, and that should do it.  

Al Qur'an does not have to provide any information about symbols for Islam. The sunnah takes care of it. Sunnah/Hadith is the material of explaining Qur'an. The flag of Islam is White. Symbol and flag are two different things. Whats the flag of Christianity? Whats the symbol of Christianity?

If holy spirit is served up to those who merely say that they are Christians like free candies at a Children birthday parties, then no wonder you see everyone under its influence! But this holy spirit goes in and out of a person, like the same way a dying person goes in and out of consciousness? Why can't the holy spirit stick or just not come at all? You ain't got no holy spirit, no how! And thats why you have some of your Christian folks have good manners sometimes, and at another time terrible manners! It is the nature of man to go in and out of great quality sometimes and into not so great quality at another time. Even Shinto, Hindu, and others, including the aborisha of Ijebuland have the same phenomena.

You are not different than them. Take responsibility for your own action, be it good or bad and leave the holy spirit out of it. Maybe your holy spirit is actually Shaitan, because it does excite you to doing the greatest evil; saying that you have three persons in God! That is multiple personality and the medical people call that schizophrenia personality.

IN any case, at lease Muhammad (as), is what I believed you were intending to write, right? At least, he was a Muslim. He prayed every prayer that you find the Muslims praying today! The five Salawat. The Sunnahs of every one of them. He made Tahajjud (the night prayers, from the time he became a prophet, to the end of his life. If he missed any night, it has been the will of his Lord that it was so, so that the conpanions and the later generations, can know that this is a possible condition). He fasted, gave Zakat and Sadaqah, made hajj and Umrah. He was the first from his brand of Islam, as it is a completed Islam to believe in ONE SINGULARLY LORD OF ALL CREATIONS!

The other side is Christianity and its relationship with Jesus. There is none! I need not give you the blow by blow. I already gave you a neck shot, and that should do it.

Al Qur'an does not have to provide any information about symbols for Islam. The sunnah takes care of it. Sunnah/Hadith is the material of explaining Qur'an. The flag of Islam is White. Symbol and flag are two different things. Whats the flag of Christianity? Whats the symbol of Christianity?

If holy spirit is served up to those who merely say that they are Christians like free candies at a Children birthday parties, then no wonder you see everyone under its influence! But this holy spirit goes in and out of a person, like the same way a dying person goes in and out of consciousness? Why can't the holy spirit stick or just not come at all? You ain't got no holy spirit, no how! And thats why you have some of your Christian folks have good manners sometimes, and at another time terrible manners! It is the nature of man to go in and out of great quality sometimes and into not so great quality at another time. Even Shinto, Hindu, and others, including the aborisha of Ijebuland have the same phenomena.

You are not different than them. Take responsibility for your own action, be it good or bad and leave the holy spirit out of it. Maybe your holy spirit is actually Shaitan, because it does excite you to doing the greatest evil; saying that you have three persons in God! That is multiple personality and the medical people call that schizophrenia personality.

Report to moderator Logged

I think you need to learn how to make a presentation in a logical manner. Mr.Olabowale. Open your self to knowledge it is power.

I will try to repond briefly to help you provide an answer to the above question even though they are not really addressed to you. Up to the time of Usman dan Fodio what were the symbols of Islam. "White banners" is not peculiar to Islam it symbolises Victory in the war. So that was before Mohammed was born. Go find out about that.
shallom!

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

You offered me question but have you been there to see my last post on same? Why not answer questions rather than avoiding questions. Go to that thread and please when you are through, let me know if something that is 'with' someone can still be that same person.

What answers did you offer to the ONE question I offered you. Instead of trying so hard to force yourself to sound intelligent here, why not simply let readers know that your so-called answers was that you DO NOT know?

babs787:

John 1v 1 will be exposed soon in that thread as we proceed but in order to deflect topic, can you supply me the question you said you have been asking me here?

You know the simple question I asked and have been pretending you no longer understand English. Babs, I offered you that your games will no longer be entertained until you grow up and seek a genuine discourse that is free from the usual Islamic hypocrisy you keep whipping up.

dafidixone:

I think you need to learn how to make a presentation in a logical manner. Mr.Olabowale. Open your self to knowledge it is power.

Foregone conclusion - he is UNABLE to do what you're asking of him!

@pilgrim.1


Can I have the question you claimed to have asked me?

@babs787,

Please cease from these childish games of asking questions that are obviously staring you in the face. As long as you keep pretending you are lost and no longer have a clue, that is how many times I will simply let you be chasing your belloy-botton.

@babs787,

You asked me to go over to the thread where you pretended to have answered the question I offered you. WHY are you pretending you have lost all sense of purpose and now trying to act like you just woke up from a bad dream?

Bo. . . let me get busy and leave these slow footed soldiers to sneak in and post whatever gibberish comes to their heads. Including the one playing hide and seek and claiming that he is busy (or 'Allah is restraining me')!

Cheers everyone o jare!