Lord_Reed:

Can we stick to the topic at hand?

it is the topic at hand. a lot of our divergences emanate from mis:translations, interpretations and conceptions.

F00028:

it is the topic at hand. a lot of our divergences emanate from mis:translations, interpretations and conceptions.

You skip the matter at hand and bring up something else. In my hidden post I debunked your claim that God is not referred to as Adonai. I can't repeat the post because I think the spam bot has a problem with non-English stuff or something. Check Jewish Encyclopaedia for the meaning of Adonai and then come and tell us whether it doesn't refer to God.

Simple fact is Jesus did not deny His Divine origin.

Lord_Reed:

You skip the matter at hand and bring up something else. In my hidden post I debunked your claim that God is not referred to as Adonai. I can't repeat the post because I think the spam bot has a problem with non-English stuff or something. Check Jewish Encyclopaedia for the meaning of Adonai and then come and tell us whether it doesn't refer to God.

Simple fact is Jesus did not deny His Divine origin.

you are mistaken. the word in psalms is "Adoni" not "Adonai"

and Adoni is used for humans meaning master, ruler, owner etc

F00028:

you are mistaken. the word in psalms is "Adoni" not "Adonai"

and Adoni is used for humans meaning master, ruler, owner etc

Sorry you are wrong. The word used in the Ps.110:1 is Adoneinu meaning My Lord which form is also used in Deut.6:4

Besides you also sidestep the fact that Jesus says "how can He be David's son when David calls Him Lord?" and Jesus also says before Abraham was I was.

Lord_Reed:

Sorry you are wrong. The word used in the Ps.110:1 is Adoneinu meaning My Lord which form is also used in Deut.6:4

Besides you also sidestep the fact that Jesus says "how can He be David's son when David calls Him Lord?" and Jesus also says before Abraham was I was.

Adoneinu? what is that?

I didn't sidestep anything. we are still on what " Lord" means in that particular passage.

"before Abraham was I was" is something you're bringing up only now. and if he was, how many of God's prophets of old taught the worship of Jesus when they were teaching men how to pray?

Lord_Reed, I updated my previous post.

@F00028
Got banned for a bit.

As for your update I will address the issue of worship but let us first establish His Divinity so go on to answer why or how David calls Jesus Lord and how Jesus could have existed before Abraham if He is not of Divine origin.

Lord_Reed: @F00028
Got banned for a bit.

As for your update I will address the issue of worship but let us first establish His Divinity so go on to answer why or how David calls Jesus Lord and how Jesus could have existed before Abraham if He is not of Divine origin.

thats easy. lord in that instance doesnt mean God.

F00028:

thats easy. lord in that instance doesnt mean God.

You have not answered the question.

Lord_Reed:

You have not answered the question.

fine. be that way.
you answer me this: if Jesus was God, when he was asked the fist of all commandments in mr.12:29 why did he say Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord"? if he was God why didn't he there and then just lay down 1jo5:7?

F00028:

fine. be that way.
you answer me this: if Jesus was God, when he was asked the fist of all commandments in mr.12:29 why did he say Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord"? if he was God why didn't he there and then just lay down 1jo5:7?

Answer the question first please, we are building up to something.

seems you missed it:

F00028:
sorry. been busy today.
i was wondering why you didn't start with this from the get-go.

i believe the scripture above refers to Psalm 110:1. the person being addressed above (jews believe it's David, christians believe it's Jesus) was never actually called "God". He was called "Adoni", which is a term given to human kings for honor and respect (e.g my Lord, my king, etc...).

however, i don't blame you because translations often have it as "The LORD said to my Lord...." which creates the impression you have.

[quote author=F00028]

Keeping that in mind it should read: GOD (Yahweh) said to my master (Adoni)

F00028: seems you missed it:

My question again for the sake of repetition and similar to what Jesus asked the Jews, how is Christ David's son if David calls Him Lord? And as a furtherance to understanding Jesus' Divinity (or lack as you say) how could Jesus assert that before Abraham was He was? These questions your post has not answered so please answer them lets proceed.

Lord_Reed:

My question again for the sake of repetition and similar to what Jesus asked the Jews, how is Christ David's son if David calls Him Lord? And as a furtherance to understanding Jesus' Divinity (or lack as you say) how could Jesus assert that before Abraham was He was? These questions your post has not answered so please answer them lets proceed.

asked and answered.
the funny thing is i should be asking you you this question since its your bible.

but no matter. my answer again for the sake of repitition is: David never called him "Lord" as in God. (DAVID DIDNT SPEAK ENGLISH) the word is "Adoni" he could have used "Adonai" which is a more exclusive term for God which if thats what he wanted to say.

calling someone adoni doesnt maké him your God.

F00028:

asked and answered.
the funny thing is i should be asking you you this question since its your bible.

but no matter. my answer again for the sake of repitition is: David never called him "Lord" as in God. (DAVID DIDNT SPEAK ENGLISH) the word is "Adoni" he could have used "Adonai" which is a more exclusive term for God which if thats what he wanted to say.

calling someone adoni doesnt maké him your God.

I ask you the question because it you who is contesting His Divinity. Please do not retreat now to the "it is your bible" position, you quoted freely from it.

You still have not answered the question. I didn't ask you if David called Him God, I asked why David called Him Lord. You don't answer this and you didn't answer why Jesus could say He was before Abraham rather you jump to the conclusion that Jesus isn't God. Why do you skirt these questions to give an answer? Is it possible you have no answer to them?

Lord_Reed:

I ask you the question because it you who is contesting His Divinity. Please do not retreat now to the "it is your bible" position, you quoted freely from it.

You still have not answered the question. I didn't ask you if David called Him God, I asked why David called Him Lord. You don't answer this and you didn't answer why Jesus could say He was before Abraham rather you jump to the conclusion that Jesus isn't God. Why do you skirt these questions to give an answer? Is it possible you have no answer to them?

sigh...why do i get the filling you are delibrately trying to deadlock this dialogue?

if you've had enough just say so.

F00028:
sigh...why do i get the filling you are delibrately trying to deadlock this dialogue?

I get that feeling from you. I want to say something about all the questions you posed but it all builds up. These questions you keep side stepping are part of a build up. You seem to retreat from treating the substance of those questions to providing a conclusion which makes it unnecessary to do a follow-up. If before we have discussed all these things you have concluded that Jesus is not God have you not provided the deadlock yourself?

i dont know why David called him "Adoni" . why did he?

Lord_Reed:

I get that feeling from you. I want to say something about all the questions you posed but it all builds up. These questions you keep side stepping are part of a build up. You seem to retreat from treating the substance of those questions to providing a conclusion which makes it unnecessary to do a follow-up. If before we have discussed all these things you have concluded that Jesus is not God have you not provided the deadlock yourself?

you can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.

F00028:

you can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.

Hmmm, you are now being defensive. You are the one who wants to disprove Jesus' Divinity based on scripture. I have asked you to do so by these questions but now I see you retreating to a defensive stance. This is the same attitude the Pharisees had when Jesus posed questions they had no answer to. If you know you have answers go ahead no one is stopping you.

F00028: i dont know why David called him "Adoni" . why did he?

I didn't see this previously.

Ok David calls Him Lord because He has been given the position to rule over the Heavens and the Earth. Notice Jesus says David is the spirit when he says it, that is because it is a revelation. A revelation of the Messiah, Who had been expected to come since the days of fall. Packaged in the mystery of the sacrifice, The Father had been preparing Him for the ultimate sacrifice. He was before Abraham because He was there at the beginning. The Father did not fully reveal Him till His appearance on Earth and The Father testifies of Him, "This is My Beloved Son in Whom I Am well pleased." No other person in scripture has this testimony neither is anyone else told to sit at The Father's Right Hand and given command of the host of Heaven.

David saw all this and could say it. I think what you struggle with is not Jesus' Divinity rather you wonder how God can be said to be one and yet you have both Jesus and The Father being recognised as God. Do I speak your mind?

.

Lord_Reed:

Hmmm, you are now being defensive. You are the one who wants to disprove Jesus' Divinity based on scripture...

you can label it whatever you like.

i dont have to disprove Jesus' diviunity becuase he never claimed it.

its you that is making him into something he is not. thus you are the one with something to prove.

F00028:

you can label it whatever you like.

i dont have to disprove Jesus' diviunity becuase he never claimed it.

its you that is making him into something he is not. thus you are the one with something to prove.

He didn't just claim it, He was, still is and always will be Divine. I don't have to prove anything, He is what He is. He is the One who demands your faith not me. All I need to do is point Him out to you, ball is in your court.

Lord_Reed:

I didn't see this previously.

Ok David calls Him Lord because...

1. David didn’t call him lord. David didn’t speak english. the word he used is “adoni”. it’s not the same thing;

2. make up your mind whether Jesus is God, son of God orthe messiah;

3. if Jesus was there at the beginning then obviously so was David;

4. and you can’t say The Father did not fully reveal him because obviously David saw him;

5. sitting at the right had of The Father and being commanded to host heaven doesn’t make him God , it makes him someone that can be commanded;

6. and no, you do not speak my mind.

7. but here is what’s on my mind: you already have a prepared script and you desperately need this dialogue to fit into it so you can bring out whatever it is you say you are building up to otherwise you are lost. i find it hard to believe that in your bible, whatever version you use, from genesis to revelation that this is the only piece of scripture you have to make Jesus into God

@F00028
Sometimes you speak as though you believe the words in the Bible other times you sound as though you despise the words. I perceive you are seriously conflicted. I pray you find peace and salvation.

Lord_Reed:

He didn't just claim it, He was, still is and always will be Divine. I don't have to prove anything, He is what He is. He is the One who demands your faith not me. All I need to do is point Him out to you, ball is in your court.

what he is, is:

1. someone who would not even accept being called “all good” because he knew that was a quality only the One True God possessed- mt19:17

2. someone who himself worshiped the One True God -mt 26:36-44

3. someone who never said “I am God” unlike the One True God who’s not shy to proclaim it- gen 35:11, exd 20:2, etc.

4. someone who constantly reminded his people he is only human-mt8:20,luk 9:44, Jhn 5:27

5. someone who was GIVEN power and authority by someone elsewho was All Powerful - jhn 5:30, Jhn 12:49, Jhn 13:3, Jhn 17:6-8, Jhn 7:16,

6. someone who wasn’t taken as God even by the people of his time- mt 16:13-20

@Lord_Reed
oh my friend i have already found my salvation and i have inner peace like you wouldnt believe. but thanks anyway.

F00028: @Lord_Reed
oh my friend i have already found my salvation and i have inner peace like you wouldnt believe. but thanks anyway.

Glad to hear that. When we meet at the throne of Jesus we shall then be truly satisfied.

Lord_Reed:

Glad to hear that. When we meet at the throne of Jesus we shall then be truly satisfied.

only am not going before the throne of Jesus am aiming to go before the Throne of the Father, the One, the Eternal.

F00028:
only am not going before the throne of Jesus am aiming to go before the Throne of the Father, the One, the Eternal.

Good.