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Another Ex Muslim Hater Becomes Muslim / Ex-muslim Talks About Islam And Saudi Arabia / Ex-muslim Tell Why They Left Islam (2) (3) (4)
Ex-muslim by nakash: 8:50am On Sep 06, 2012 |
http://islam-watch.org/authors/68-mumin/1134-quran-was-not-preserved.html Allah said, “We have sent down the Quran and surely We will protect” (Quran 15:9). Could he? Most Muslims are familiar with the above verse from the Quran, which they consider as the concrete proof that the Quran is perfectly preserved. The verse is clear; Allah pledges to protect his book from corruption, which provides Muslims with a much needed assurance that their holy book is reliable. Such assurance was necessary to Muslims whose confidence in the divine scriptures was shaken after the Quran’s repeated accusations to other nations of tampering with their own scriptures. Muslims are taught that preservation of the Quran is an accepted fact that distinguishes Islam from the rest. The claim aims to make the Quran stand out as the only true divine book in the procession of mankind today. The Muslims' claim is a big lie that has proved to be a very successful selling point to converts who often refer to the Quran in that sense. It is not advisable to question the authenticity of the Quran with Muslims unless you are sure of their relative tolerance. The Muslims clouded minds quickly moves into circular logic such as: ”Of course, every word in the the Quran is preserved as Allah revealed it to his prophet, this is an absolute fact because Allah vowed to protect his book from any corruption” It would be a struggle to try to point out that a statement in the Quran can not be accepted as a proof of its authenticity. From a scientific point of view, the Quran and Islam wouldn't stand a chance if subjected to proper historical scrutiny (1). Muhammad’s birth and life, the Quran and the beginning of Islam are all shrouded with a thick coat of vagueness and obscurity. But this article discredits the islamic claim on the basis of the accepted Islamic history. How the Quran was preserved As all Muslims know, the Quran was not Allah’s first book; a few others were revealed centuries before the Quran. None of those scriptures survived to our day because they were tampered with by the very people to whom they were revealed. Fourteen hundreds years ago, Allah decided conclusively to reveal a scripture, once and for all, which He called the Quran, and vowed to protect it from corruption. We do not know the reasons why people tampered with the earlier scriptures. Did they gain anything by deliberately making changes to Allah’s words? Why they did not fear Allah, especially with all the stories in those scriptures, about Allah’s punishments to those who dared to disobey Him. We also do not know why Allah allowed his books to be tampered with. Even human writers do not allow any changes to their works. As Allah pledges to protect the Quran, one would think that He would create the ideal conditions for His revelation along with man-proof measures to safeguard the Quran. Well, it doesn't look to us that way. On the contrary, it looks as if Allah made every effort to make the Quran disappear, even before its revelation was completed. Let us examine the circumstances of the Quranic revelation: The Nation The Quran was revealed in the seventh century to the Arabs, one of the most illiterate nations of the time. It was the Arabs first ever book. Before the Quran the Arabs never authored a book and had no idea how books look like or how to handle them. Revealing the Quran to the Arabs sets the scene for mistakes of all kinds. The Timing The Quran was revealed before the Arabic script was fully developed. The Arabic script was not yet suitable for writing anything with significance because many letters shared the same appearance. The script problem was only solved, decades after Muhammad’s death, by adding dots to the script. It is only fair to wonder why Allah rushed the Quran before the Arabic script was well developed. It looks strange that the Arabs used the same script for multiple letters. But before the Quran, the Arabs only managed to write a few pieces of poetry. Reading the script served as a reminder for the reader of what they already knew by heart. As a matter of fact, the Arabic script still suffers of a similar problem in our time. There are many Arabic words (not letters) that share exactly the same appearance, even after adding the dots. It is usually left for the reader to work out, from the context, the proper pronunciation of a particular word. To distinguish those words from each other, printing has to include the diacritical marks (like fat-ha, kasra, and damma), which the Arabs started to use more than a century after Muhammad’s death. Although used in the Quran, the diacritical marks are rarely used in every day printing of ordinary books or newspapers because they make the words cluttered and printing more demanding. The Illiterate Receiver At the time of the Quranic revelations, there were some Arabs who were educated enough to be able to read and write. Out of all the Arabs, Allah appointed Muhammad, an illiterate person, to be in charge of the Quran. This is like appointing an illiterate person to be in charge of editing an important newspaper.. The Scribes Muhammad had some scribes working for him in Medina. After a revelation, Muhammad would ask whoever available of those scribes to write the revealed verse/verses. The scribe service was not available to Muhammad when he was still a weak person with only a handful of followers in Mecca. Therefore, it is fair to assume that the Meccan verses, over one third of the Quran, were not written immediately by scribes. Being an illiterate person, Muhammad had no means to check the work of the scribes for errors that could have been made accidentally or on purpose. Being trustworthy himself is meaningless if Muhammad had to leave the work to be completed by ordinary people without supervision. The story of Ibn Abu Al Sarh: This is a very important and very little known story about the Quran. Muslim scholars make every effort to tuck it away and keep it out of sight of ordinary Muslims. I only learned about this story after I left Islam. In short: Abdulla Ibn Abu Al Sarh was one of the scribes in Medina. Once Muhammad dictated to him a verse that had one of the common endings like aleem khabeer or hakeem aleem. When Ibn Abu Al Sarh reached the end of the verse he double checked with Muhammad: “Oh prophet of Allah, is it hakeem aleem?” to which Muhammad said ‘yes, it is’. Ibn Abu Al Sarh became suspicious because he thought it was aleem khabeer. Ibn Abu Al Sarh decided to test Muhammad in future verses and noticed that Muhammad accepts his suggestions of aleem khabeer or hakeem aleem or other endings that do not distort the meaning. Ibn Abu Al Sarh concluded that Muhammad was not a prophet but an impostor. He denounced Islam and defected to Mecca and told the Quraysh of what happened. Muhammad became very angry and vowed to kill him once he conquers Mecca, which he was preparing for. When Muhammad conquered Mecca, Ibn Abu Al Sarh was arrested but was saved from the death sentence by Uthman, his brother in breast feeding. Ibn Abu Al Sarh survived and had a successful career under the Umayad dynasty, which speaks volumes of the faith of the Umayads! We do not know which verses were scribed by Ibn Abu Al Sarh, but we know that at least those verses were not accurate! The materials The technology necessary for writing was not well developed in Arabia. The scribes used primitive ink and perishable material to accomplish their work. Consequently, by the time Muhammad died, some verses were unreadable or completely missing from the Quran. According to Aysha, Muhammad’s wife, she used to keep the stoning verse under her bed, but was eaten by a ‘dajen’ (chicken or domestic animal!) Inspection Until Muhammad’s death, nobody inspected the work of the scribes, which was left to gather dust until after Muhammad’s death. The moment of truth came about two decades later when Caliph Uthman appointed a committee to start the project of collecting the Quran. Only then the discrepancies in the various writings came to light. Uthman’s solution was to order to burn all existing copies and keep only the formal five copies which were produced by his committee. Many leading Muslims refused to recognize Uthman’s copies and refused to surrender their own to be destroyed because they believed theirs were the accurate ones. Ibn Massoud, a sahabi whose knowledge of the Quran was renowned and commended by Muhammad, was one of those Muslims who refused to recognize Uthman’s copies and refused to surrender his personal, presumably accurate, collection. Preserving the Quran in the Muslims’ chests Some Muslim scholars claim that all of the above is irrelevant because the Quran was preserved in the Muslims’ chests as well. (Yes, the Quran associates the heart with intelligence, not a word about the brain, and the Muslims believed it). This claim is coupled to a belief that the early Muslims were humans with extra ordinary intelligence. Of course this is completely unfounded and still doesn't explain the discrepancies between the various collections of the Quran. Muhammad could and should have done more to safeguard the Quran, if he really believed it was Allah’ words and the most important document on earth. He had the resources and the authority, as a leader in Medina, to order a supervised writing and proper collection of the Quran. He should have stamped that authenticated copy (Muhammad had a stamp) and devised a system to take care of it after him. But he didn't because he was busy fighting wars; over seventy of them in a space of ten years. Besides he didn't really feel the Quran was that important. He probably found the chaotic situation useful, as it gave him the freedom to contradict the earlier verses without being noticed. Many Muslims believe that two of Uthman’s copies still exist today and they seem to be sure about it. They do so because they believe their scholars who propagate this lie with apparent confidence, which is not unusual for Muslim scholars. Caliph Uthman sent four of his copies to the governers of the newly conquered states and kept one with him in Medina. Those copies were supposed to have been well looked after but there is no trace of them. How can Muslims afford to lose such important divine documents? This is difficult to fathom considering the way today’s Muslims treat the Quran. Muslims are usually reluctant to dispose of their old copies of the Quran because it is not a straight forward matter; it should be burnt and not mixed with the general waste. Until the discovery of the Quran of Sanaa, the oldest two copies of the Quran were thought to be the ones in Tashkent and Istanbul. Both copies are partial, not the full Quran and both were dated to some two hundred years after Muhammad’s death. Therefore they are not Uthman’s copies. In the 1970s, manuscripts of the Quran were found in Sanaa, Yemen, and were dated to about hundred years after Muhammad’s death. They are believed to be the oldest copy of the Quran. The Yemini authorities stopped the German researchers from completing their work once they noticed the differences between the manuscripts and the existing Quran. It is also interesting to note that independent researchers have no access to do proper studies on the copies in Tashkent and Istanbul. Are they hiding something? |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 8:57am On Sep 06, 2012 |
Stop this cut and paste. Make an original argument. |
Re: Ex-muslim by nakash: 9:00am On Sep 06, 2012 |
I have not claimed those arguments as my own. I gave a link to the original author. Thats good enough for my standards. MacDaddy01: Stop this cut and paste. |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 9:15am On Sep 06, 2012 |
nakash: I have not claimed those arguments as my own. I gave a link to the original author.Nope. I agree with you but these long cut and pastes put people off. I didnt even bother to read. |
Re: Ex-muslim by nakash: 9:40am On Sep 06, 2012 |
Let me summarise. As Muhammad was receiving the quran from jibril he had a scribe Ibn Abu Al Sarh to write them down. The scribe often made suggestions of what to write when he was not clear.Eventually the scribe realised that those could not be allah's words because he was in a position to change them. He left Islam went to Mecca. When Muhammad captured Mecca he ordered for Ibn Abu Al Sarh's death. Ibn Abu Al Sarh was saved by Caliph Uthman. I must add that when Ibn Abu Al Sarh was summmoned by Muhammad , the prophet wanted his people to kill him but he did not make any sign..He later said that a prophet does not kill by pointing. In short the earliest scribe knew that the Quran was fake. MacDaddy01: |
Re: Ex-muslim by baba11(m): 10:44am On Sep 06, 2012 |
I am not surprised in whatever forms about this post because i know what unbelievers would do to smear islam in bad light.we are very much aware that you have gone from physical preaching through psycological inducements to e-hypocrisy.To cut it short,i would be very happy if you can answer me.As u said,if there is inconstitencies in the quran due to what was written down,was there inconstitencies in what the 'hafis' (i.e those that memorise quran by heart from the begining to the end) knew because from what we made to understand,during the caliphate of abubakr,a particular war broke out because of some people refusing to pay there zakat,we lost many hafis and it was thought off that if this went on uncheck,we would not have those that have quranic knowledge and this gave birth to calling the remaining hafis together to make the quran as whole.Do you now want to tell me that what many people that has knowledge on something came together to arrive at a conclusion is faulty?This particular 'sahabi'(prophet follower);ibn abu al sarh you are referring to,i have not heard about him or read anything about him.Where do you leave ibn masud,abu hurairah etc who received direct recitation from the prophet.Please my fellow muslims,don't be deceived.!!! 3 Likes |
Re: Ex-muslim by manmustwac(m): 11:00am On Sep 06, 2012 |
Nice article but I'd like to see the poster write a similar article about Constantinople & the Council of Nicosea. |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 12:33pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
Lol! ![]() ![]() ![]() More disturbing is the fact that the authors of the said document hardly sited refrences but conjectures, the lies contained in the write- down, have been refuted numerously on NL again, I will do justice to this rant! Insha Allah nakash: http://islam-watch.org/authors/68-mumin/1134-quran-was-not-preserved.html ![]() nakash: Yawns, cheap drugs must be at work here, we simply dispel the lies and rumour by pointing to the fact that most convert in Islam tend to do so out of the fact that the Islamic theology that is non racial and highly logic + purely monotheistic and on the fact that the Qur'an sales this points is very clear. Moreover most convert are usually knowledgeable and hence nothing is quite new when it comes to the Qur'an's autheticity. nakash: Lol! We will see whose eye is clouded, for u to prove ur inauthenticity u would need to have two conflicting copy of the original or oldest existing qur'an with what we have! That has always remained the point, dullards and mumulards alike cannot seem to graps. Offcourse christian point to verses of the bible that guarantees' it authenticity yet we have showed them, their talk is is just talk "originals" greatly differ from one another are clearly showing the lack of authenticity of the scripture. Till date this non of these claims can be said about the Qur'an making us wonder why will this Islam watchers be making numerous false assertions about muslims? The truth remains the Qur'an was preserved by both written form and memorization! Double assurance indeed! nakash: Lmao ![]() ![]() nakash: What a pity these bible thumpers suffer intellectual diorhia, rather than lie against the Qur'an this misfits should try hand and decide which bible is the right, they claim 26 000 manucscripts yet no two are alike, which offcourse leaves the liars with a dismal logic I.e why would people change the bible, the answer remains did the bible existed like a book from inception, no, the statement. Is a show of the hallow logic of its writer and the op, asking why a person would change the bible is the same as. Asking why are they false prophets! We need logic on the table not cries of foolery nakash: Chants of illitracy! ![]() ![]() ![]() nakash: Nonsense, nakash must occupy low levels of self esteem to have posted this article, for starters the arabs already had a system of writing words, arab literature grew vastly with the advent of the Qur'an, indicating clearly that rather than posing as a problem it became a catalyst in arabic literature development. Only one biwildered by conspiracy theories will ignore historical facts about the Qur'an to believe this load of crap! nakash: What was the point in raising the above ruse? First arabic script when under develop later on the use of diacritical marks simplified reading later on, the ordinary books don't use the marks becuase they are cumbersome. The question remains are u guys well at all? Why contradict yourselves thrice in a row, if people can read without diacritical marks it shows one thing, that even in prehistoric times, the arabs could also read the Qur'an without those marks. Pls note this point, this is what we will eventually use to dispel the rumours about Uthman. Again he made a point to claim the arabs had written poetry down, indicating that writing was not a novelty with the advent of islam. nakash: Muhammad was best in character! And it was his trustworthiness that attracted many to islam! Muhammad pbuh, was able to communicate the message of the Qur'an, he instructed scribes to read whatever they had written down, this essentially ensure the quality, and again he had multiple scribes this double assured the content. nakash: This is very strange reasoning in play, Muhammad clearly ask the scribe to recite whatever he instructed then to wriite! This system clearly made sure the scribe were on point everytime. Secondly most muslims were taught to recite and memorise the Qur'an, the fact that people memorize the Qur'an is a strong rebuttal to the lies. Again I restate two ways ensure the authenticity, the prophet requested the scribes recited what he told them and the fact that people memorize what was revealed, third the fact that muslims pray and habe to recite the Qur'an ensured the Qur'an was memorized! nakash: And I ask do u know ibn Abu Al sarh died a muslims after the above rant, 2. Muslims do not hide anything, the Abu al sarh issue is considered unauthentic because the verse was revealed in Mecca and his conversion to Islam occurred in medina after Muhammad pbuh migrated to Medina. Hence this simple fact simply refutes the lie. The mere fact that Abu died a muslim shows clearly the story is false! nakash: U forgot to add that Muslims already memorised the Qur'an whole scale, hence whatever that got missing was always remembered! ![]() nakash: Liar, Uthman merely standardized the text, a copy already existed and was in the possession of Hafsat, the discrepancy u speak about occured in lands far away from medina and mecca, indicating because new convert brought their language which lead to different recital of the Qur'an not different versions of the Qur'an, uthman standardization preserved the orginal recitation of the Qur'an, the dialect approved was the dialect the Quraysh used in reciting the Qur'an. Uthman's standard text became the official written document leading to destruction of documents that were not standardized! nakash: Yawns! This dudes are not serious, the fact that they cannot point to versions of the Qur'an (in arabic) shows in fact they mumulards indeed. Till date they are many muslims who have memorize the Qur'an cover to cover! Islam did institute the practice of reciting the entire Qur'an during the the month of ramadhan hence atleast once every year muslims read the entire Qur'an cover to cover ensuring that even after 1000' s of years muslims still know the Qur'an by heart! nakash: Muslims preserved the Qur'an by heart and in books and in prayer we recite the truth Allah revealed. Again nakash has been flogged flatly! Go open another thread and cry! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 12:41pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
See what happens when you cut and paste? You give douch£s like Vedaxcool the opportunity to play the islamic victim and also give him a chance to argue and claim that islam is great. When you make an original argument, you put religionists on the back-foot. |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 1:18pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
Funny I cannot recall locking anyone in the religion section. ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 1:21pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
vedaxcool: I did not lock anyone in the religion section. Why dont you be a brave man like prophet Muhammad and say what you really mean. Face your opponent. |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 1:27pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
Trolls keep trolling, Criers keep crying Dullards keep dulling . . . But I never lock anyone in Religo section so spear me ur crying ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 1:35pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
vedaxcool: Trolls keep trolling, ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 2:27pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
^ Yeah the picture above adequately captures the level of dullard"ity" of the person I have in mind (the one whom I am not responsible for locking up in the religion section) hahahaha ![]() ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by MacDaddy01: 2:46pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
Ignorance is a disease http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/dafuq-did-i-just-read--2 |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 3:07pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
![]() ![]() |
Re: Ex-muslim by LagosShia: 10:28pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
@OP An article of opinions,false claims,outright lies and misunderstanding cooked to deceive the unsuspecting and uninformed.but like the saying goes and summarizes your article including its detailed contents:'everyone is entitled to his opinion'. There is no tax for talking rubbish. Here is a refutation to the Ibn Abi Sarh claims: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Sarh/ |
Re: Ex-muslim by Nobody: 11:36pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
Who among you muslims annoyed nakash? |
Re: Ex-muslim by vedaxcool(m): 10:42am On Sep 07, 2012 |
^ Go ask nakash and has been on a losing streak and is crying that muslims have been battering him black and blue! |
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