Katsumoto:
International response is based on efforts within a country.

Why should western nations lead revolutions in sovereign nations? If citizens rise and demand change, outsiders may assist them.

But there has been protests in Bahrain since last year - why did the UK send the police chief there to help quell the protests?? And the last time I checked, there's no democracy in Bahrain.

There is no guarantee that outsiders will always help; they will balance resources required with the situation on ground. Who paid for the costs of assisting the rebels in Libya?

Saudi Arabia, NATO, and Qatar paid for it..

There was no response required in Saudi because the royal family moved quickly with socialist causes. In effect, they bought the continued loyalty of their subjects.

What about Bahrain And didn't Ghaddafi talk about reforms as well??

International opinion moved against Ghadaffi because of his past actions of supporting terrorists. What state terrorism have Saudi and Bahrain sponsored?

How do you define 'terrorism'??

All the 9/11 suicide bombers were from Saudi Arabia - and Saudi Arabia is the home of Islamic terrorism... The Wahhabi/Salafi ideology is from Saudi Arabia...

Inside story of the UK's secret mission to beat Gaddafi: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573516

Katsumoto:

International response is based on efforts within a country.

Why should western nations lead revolutions in sovereign nations? If citizens rise and demand change, outsiders may assist them.

There is no guarantee that outsiders will always help; they will balance resources required with the situation on ground. Who paid for the costs of assisting the rebels in Libya?

There was no response required in Saudi because the royal family moved quickly with socialist causes. In effect, they bought the continued loyalty of their subjects.

International opinion moved against Ghadaffi because of his past actions of supporting terrorists. What state terrorism have Saudi and Bahrain sponsored?

Its an open secret in the intelligence world that the CIA are known to topple govt of sovereign nations and cloaking it with engineered protests. Check out the CONTRA affair, Nicaragua, Panama, Honduras, Romania et al. There are many books written by ex-agents to buttress this, I won't be surprised if they engineered the fall of Ghaddafi. They tried it in Iran with Mousavi but failed largely due to the effectiveness of the Iranian intelligence agencies.

The christian God is too lazy to defend his adherents from attacks if the Muslims are fighting for their own God. Christians are as guilty as Muslims, everyone commits but turn the other eye.

@Post

It is quite sad that the American ambassador and his staff lost their lives in such a tragic way. However, America had it coming. They never mind their own business. They will do anything to protect their so-called interests in far away sovereign nations even if it means women, children and men losing their lives in the proccess. I remember the Americans were supplying the salafists with guns to overthrow Gaddafi. Now, the same salafists are now biting the Americans in the butt. Karma is a bytch they say.

My bible mentions severally in the book of Isaiah that the wicked will not go unpunished. All the wickedness Americans perpetrate around the world is catching up with them. Lastly, why should Americans make derogatory films about Islam? Can't Americans learn to respect other religions? Americans too dey look for trouble and their cup don dey full.

shymexx: Arming Salafists with weapons is suicidal - these cavemen were protesting with RPGs and guns, same way the protest against Ghaddafi started... Ghaddafi has been vindicated - he held Libya together and put his foot in the arses of the Salafists, but the lure of oil made the West make the same fatal error they made in Afghanistan in the 80s. And they're still hell bent on making another one in Syria.... When will Saudi Arabia, the home of Salafists be attacked and destroyed And why are they allowing Muslim Brotherhood to run Egypt??

To be honest, the West is the one promoting Salafist ideology in the world by arming them and using them for regime change everywhere... It's just scary!!!

Gbam. Fucki.ng clever

ehie: baaa..and i also believe pigs will fly,pies and chocolate scones will drop from the sky and gej will transform nigeria into a great nation,keep kidding urself kiddo,lalaland is so much better than ugly reality

You should be able to support your position with readily available facts. Personal opinion, illogical conjecture is for discussions with friends and family.

I am waiting for you to prove me wrong.

gidiMonsta:

Its an open secret in the intelligence world that the CIA are known to topple govt of sovereign nations and cloaking it with engineered protests. Check out the CONTRA affair, Nicaragua, Panama, Honduras, Romania et al. There are many books written by ex-agents to buttress this, I won't be surprised if they engineered the fall of Ghaddafi. They tried it in Iran with Mousavi but failed largely due to the effectiveness of the Iranian intelligence agencies.

My position is not to absolve the US and its agencies of blame. With regards to Libya, the facts don't support outside interference.

@ kasumoto,facts r all around u bro.type weapons of mass destruction saddam hussein on google,were any weapons found,type the best type of crude oil, light brent,what pops up,libiya,type halliburton,u end up with dick cheney former us vp,security and arms contract n oil,go to wiki leaks,but no u r waiting for me to prove u wrong.sucks to be u,so much water and not a drop to drink

maryjames9: Dont get it twisted Oga. I have great deal of respect for Jesus and muhamhed and i'm a true christian but insult Jesus and burn the bible,the worst i wil do is pray for your salvation and change. We are never gonna fight for our God. Let God fight for himself. By getting violent,you are only painting your islam a bad colour. Gosh. So long as it is not a self defence,it is wrong to take a life in the name of fighting for muhamhed. It is absurd

Shattap,God dey come down cum fight?tell me how Muslim take disrespect Christianity, no b una alaba and aboa brothers dey do yoruba Christian and u brought it on urself because u have a picture of your Jesus in church but we don't a picture of him just memory of him that was written down in the quran and why should someone come up with a cartoon or picture that was never there before.

I still don't know why Nigerians keep supporting the Libyan 'revolution' - when the so-called 'revolution' and the arming of the rebels has made the Jihadists more potent around West Africa... Boko Haram is stronger, and Mali is already bearing the brunt of the intervention..

You're supporting the same racist cavemen that beheaded black Libyans and black Africans - and posted the videos on youtube smh..

shymexx:

But there has been protests in Bahrain since last year - why did the UK send the police chief there to help quell the protests?? And the last time I checked, there's no democracy in Bahrain.

You seem to think I am having an ideological debate.

Britain like the US, always looks after its own interests.

shymexx:


Saudi Arabia, NATO, and Qatar paid for it..

They made contributions but the Western nations bore the cost of the military campaigns. That's why US congressmen were lambasting Obama for 'wasting' tax payers money in Libya.

shymexx:

How do you define 'terrorism'??

All the 9/11 suicide bombers were from Saudi Arabia - and Saudi Arabia is the home of Islamic terrorism... The Wahhabi/Salafi ideology is from Saudi Arabia...

Inside story of the UK's secret mission to beat Gaddafi: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573516

There is a difference between state terrorism (Iran, Libya) and terrorism (Al qaeda). Will you accuse Somalia and Uganda for the actions of their rebels on foreign soil?

Katsumoto:

Personal opinion, illogical conjecture is for discussions with friends and family.
.

dude stop using big words with lil or no relevance tryn to claim intellectualism,u sound way over ur head

This the movie that is causing all craddle robber followers to go nuts 'Innocence of Muslims' Trailer [HD] watch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntgzoE7rU9A

ehie: @ kasumoto,facts r all around u bro.type weapons of mass destruction saddam hussein on google,were any weapons found,type the best type of crude oil, light brent,what pops up,libiya,type halliburton,u end up with dick cheney former us vp,security and arms contract n oil,go to wiki leaks,but no u r waiting for me to prove u wrong.sucks to be u,so much water and not a drop to drink

You are saying many things without saying anything at all.

Lets take them one by one; lumping many events together is a tactic of obfuscation.

The US doesn't have one foreign policy for all. It is not a dumb nation. It's foreign policy will be dictated by its interests and the circumstances.

State your case.

shymexx: I still don't know why Nigerians keep supporting the Libyan 'revolution' - when the so-called 'revolution' and the arming of the rebels has made the Jihadists more potent around West Africa... Boko Haram is stronger, and Mali is already bearing the brunt of the intervention..

You're supporting the same racist cavemen that beheaded black Libyans and black Africans - and posted the videos on youtube smh..

You mean Ghadaffi was the perfect host to Black Africans?

That one person hates you doesn't mean his enemy loves you. They can both hate you and treat you badly.

Besides, no one is supporting the US, people are merely engaging in a debate.

ehie: dude stop using big words with lil or no relevance tryn to claim intellectualism,u sound way over ur head

You know I haven't resorted to insults or a condescending attitude.

Stop making the issue about me. What is your position?

Katsumoto:
You seem to think I am having an ideological debate.

Britain like the US, always looks after its own interests.

Suffice to say, the intervention wasn't really about the 'revolution', but about their 'interests'. So, why are they crying foul when the "chicken came back to roost?" They 'laid' the bed - let them sleep on it, and stop blaming Islam for the monster they created because of their 'interests'.

They made contributions but the Western nations bore the cost of the military campaigns. That's why US congressmen were lambasting Obama for 'wasting' tax payers money in Libya.

The yanks got what they wanted from Libya - they wanted the water reservoir, new oil deals, and AFRICOM base...

There is a difference between state terrorism (Iran, Libya) and terrorism (Al qaeda). Will you accuse Somalia and Uganda for the actions of their rebels on foreign soil?

What's going on in Syria can also be labelled as; state sponsored terrorism by Saudi Arabia, no??

And Saudi Arabia is the principal financial backer of Afghanistan's Taliban and it also funds Hamas..

Katsumoto:
You mean Ghadaffi was the perfect host to Black Africans?

That one person hates you doesn't mean his enemy loves you. They can both hate you and treat you badly.

Besides, no one is supporting the US, people are merely engaging in a debate.

I know it's just a debate..

They both hate and treat 'me' badly, but I'd rather support the 'one' who provided job opportunities for 'me' in 'his' country, invested Libyan funds around the continent, and provided $6billion for the African Development Bank - than the lunatic who's hell bent on beheading 'me' because of the colour of my skin....

Katsumoto: I don't understand why many blame the US for the removal and death of Ghadaffi.

There was an arab spring and many arabs revolted against their governments.

The EU and US originally stood aside but as the savage blood letting let loose by Ghaddafi claimed many lives, international observers requested help for the rebels. If the Western governments didn't respond, the same conspiracy theorists would be arguing it was because of oil.

The fact is that western governments supported the rebels even though Libyan oil had found its way to western markets again after many years of sanctions.

But they didn't go to Bahrain, Sir

Where were the Marines? (Mad and pissed off).

Mark my words though, some one has his head painted with the target from a drone.

Loosely quoting President Bush "Those who did this, we've heard from you, and you'll hear from us soon".

shymexx:

Suffice to say, the intervention wasn't really about the 'revolution', but about their 'interests'. So, why are they crying foul when the "chicken came back to roost?" They 'laid' the bed - let them sleep on it, and stop blaming Islam for the monster they created because of their 'interests'.

Has the US blamed the incident in Libya on Islam?

This particular incident relates to a movie made in California. Many nations, including Nigeria, have been victims of outrage by Muslims to occurrences in other places. What blame will you attribute to the innocent Nigerians who died during the Danish cartoon episode?

shymexx:

The yanks got what they wanted from Libya - they wanted the water reservoir, new oil deals, and AFRICOM base...

The west already had access to Libyan assets under Ghadaffi; they didn't need to get rid of him.

shymexx:

What's going on in Syria can also be labelled as; state sponsored terrorism by Saudi Arabia, no??

And Saudi Arabia is the principal financial backer of Afghanistan's Taliban and it also funds Hamas..

Surely no one can believe that Saudi Arabia is backing the Taliban or Hamas; where are you getting that from?

Syria itself is a victim of what it was an expert in. It has been sponsoring Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine.

I am not condemning or justifying, just stating what I believe to be true.

Katsumoto:

International response is based on efforts within a country.

Why should western nations lead revolutions in sovereign nations? If citizens rise and demand change, outsiders may assist them.

There is no guarantee that outsiders will always help; they will balance resources required with the situation on ground. Who paid for the costs of assisting the rebels in Libya?

There was no response required in Saudi because the royal family moved quickly with socialist causes. In effect, they bought the continued loyalty of their subjects.

International opinion moved against Ghadaffi because of his past actions of supporting terrorists. What state terrorism have Saudi and Bahrain sponsored?

The minorities are the ones ruling in Bahrain. The majority, of the same ethnic stock, wanted change, rioted vehemently, but, the riot was met with brutal force by the ruling minority, wilfully assisted by Saudi and the West.
It was quelled in a very bloody way

Ola one:

But they didn't go to Bahrain, Sir

I have already addressed this prof.

I answered Shymexx when I said the UK and other Western nations will always look after their own interests first. That is the name of the game.

Before you act, you balance all factors.

Ola one:

The minorities are the ones ruling in Bahrain. The majority, of the same ethnic stock, wanted change, rioted vehemently, but, the riot was met with brutal force by the ruling minority, wilfully assisted by Saudi and the West.
It was quelled in a very bloody way

I qualified my response.

I said outsiders MAY assist. Foreign policy is not a one rule fits all.

Simon Tisdall just posted an amazing article on The Guardian UK:

Libyan attack: it should have been clear deposing Gaddafi was the easy bit
Yet this is exactly what Stevens's death may presage. Once again, the western powers have started a fire they cannot extinguish. A year after David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy jointly travelled to Libya to lay claim to a liberator's bogus laurels, the Libyan revolution they fanned and fuelled is in danger of degenerating into a chaotic, violent free-for-all.

Do not be misled by the fig leaf of this summer's national assembly polls. Post-Gaddafi Libya lacks viable national political leadership, a constitution, functioning institutions, and most importantly, security. Nationwide parliamentary elections are still a year away. The east-west divide is as problematic as ever. Political factions fight over the bones of the former regime, symbolised by the forthcoming trials of Gaddafi's son, Saif, and his intelligence chief, Abdullah al-Senussi.

Effective central control, meanwhile, is largely absent. And into this vacuum have stepped armed groups – whether politically, religiously or financially inspired matters little – all claiming sectional suzerainty over the multitude of fractured fiefdoms that was, until Nato barged in, a unified state.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/12/libyan-attack-fire-cannot-extinguish

I can't wait to read Robert Fisk and Seumas Milne's analysis..

Katsumoto:

I have already addressed this prof.

I answered Shymexx when I said the UK and other Western nations will always look after their own interests first. That is the name of the game.

Before you act, you balance all factors.

sure. You are right.

They also have to take it when it causes something like the ambassador's death though

Please note: I am not a Muslim. I am just being fair

Mr ambassador,u go hear am for Ghadafi hand o!na him be kodo there,hop u carry hell show o!

Ola one:
sure. You are right.

They also have to take it when it causes something like the ambassador's death though

So who do you blame for the innocent Nigerians who died during the Danish cartoon and Miss World pageant events? Or better yet, how will you blame those who died in those events?

Since you want to use cause and effect to rationalize your argument.

Katsumoto:
Has the US blamed the incident in Libya on Islam?

Hillary Clinton already did in a subtle way... This is a quote from her press conference: "Let me be clear – there is no justification for this. None. Violence like this is no way to honor religions or faiths. And as long as there are those who would take innocent life in the name of god, the world will never know ... peace."

This particular incident relates to a movie made in California. Many nations, including Nigeria, have been victims of outrage by Muslims to occurrences in other places. What blame will you attribute to the innocent Nigerians who died during the Danish cartoon episode?

We should learn to understand and respect people's belief system... It's not news that Muslims don't play with their prophet - why can't we let them be??

The west already had access to Libyan assets under Ghadaffi; they didn't need to get rid of him.

But Ghaddafi was planing to nationalise Libyan oil and he said that during an interview in 2009... The West had no access to the water reservoir/man made river under Ghaddafi and he also said NO to Africom base on Libyan soil..

Surely no one can believe that Saudi Arabia is backing the Taliban or Hamas; where are you getting that from?

Syria itself is a victim of what it was an expert in. It has been sponsoring Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine.

I am not condemning or justifying, just stating what I believe to be true.

I culled this from The Telegraph UK:

Wikileaks: Saudis 'chief funders of al-Qaeda'

"It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority," read a cable from Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, dated Dec 30, 2009.

"Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide,"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8182847/Wikileaks-Saudis-chief-funders-of-al-Qaeda.html

And this is from NY Times:

Flow of Saudis' Cash to Hamas Is Scrutinized
Nearly a year ago, Khalid Mishaal, a senior leader of Hamas, the militant Palestinian organization, attended a charitable fund-raising conference here where he talked at length with Crown Prince Abdullah, the de facto Saudi ruler.

According to a summary of the meeting written by a Hamas official, Mr. Mishaal and other Hamas representatives thanked their Saudi hosts for continuing ''to send aid to the people through the civilian and popular channels, despite all the American pressures exerted on them.''

''This is indeed a brave posture deserving appreciation,'' the Hamas officials said, the document said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/world/flow-of-saudis-cash-to-hamas-is-scrutinized.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

The tragedy of the boomerang of NATO.

shymexx:

Hillary Clinton already did in a subtle way... This is a quote from her press conference: "Let me be clear – there is no justification for this. None. Violence like this is no way to honor religions or faiths. And as long as there are those who would take innocent life in the name of god, the world will never know ... peace."



We should learn to understand and respect people's belief system... It's not news that Muslims don't play with their prophet - why can't we let them be??



But Ghaddafi was planing to nationalise Libyan oil and he said that during an interview in 2009... The West had no access to the water reservoir/man made river under Ghaddafi and he also said NO to Africom base on Libyan soil..




I culled this from The Telegraph UK:



And this is from NY Times:

Well said.