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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? (13915 Views)
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Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by plaetton: 11:56pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: It seems u are trying to twist my words, this is a very big lie, i can say this as a catholic still descerning the priesthood. Priestly celibacy, has never been, isnt, and never will be a dogma. It doesnt qualify as a dogma, priestly celibacy is a CHURCH DISCIPLINE, it has been for over 1500yrs, is and may change at anytime. Please dont spread misinformation, celibacy isnt a dogma. Oh, I see your position loud and clear. Listen to your words: Dogmas are truths defined and confirmed in councils. Those who disagree were excommunicated. And then you contradict yourself in the third sentence by saying: That dogmas weren't invented in councils. So which one? Dogma is defined and confirmed in councils , but not invented by the same councils? And then you go further by stating that dogmas are truth of faith . That is an interesting word, truth of faith? If there is a truth of faith, there must also be falsehoods of faith. right? So lets go over this again: 1.The church councils DEFINE and approve, sorry wrong word, CONFIRMS and then PROCLAIMS the Truth Of christian Faith, then throws out(excommunicates) anyone who disagrees. Right? But isn't this exactly what I have been saying by the term enforced dogma? 2.And then, you go on to claim that dogmas are truth of faith as revealed by Christ and confirmed by spirit(which spirit, where and when?) to the apostles(which apostles?), and then faithfully(big laugh) handed down to the church(wow!) and passed down from generation to generation(through excommincations , right?). Wow, this is a very long stretch of fantasies. Well, my friend, you have your fairy tales all figured out. Kudos. If Nicea did not invent trinity but only defined it, then what on earth was trinity before Nicea defined it? Who first floated the idea of trinity, and who handed it down the Nicean council to define and confirm? Was it Jesus? (a) If it was jesus , then how and why would a bunch of self appointed men now convene to DEFINE, which in this context, means edit and confirm(who gave them the power and perogative ?) what is and has already been established by Jesus? Was the definition,confirmation, proclamation and adoption of sunday in place of saturday one of such dogmas revealed by Jesus? (b) If Jesus did not,then since the teachings of jesus are the foundations and pillars of the christian faith, then such dogma or any supplementary teachings attributed to Paul or any other, as adjuncts to the testimonies of Jesus himself, should be null and void. If trinity or any other of the council doctrines were already revealed by Jesus, then why on earth would you need a council to convene for the sole purpose of debating(often with much rancur), defining and confirming(and excommunicating) what should have been obvious from scriptures? So, in summary; The church councils debate,define,confirm, proclaim and enforce its own truths of faith, and then passes such along from generation to generation through intimidation with the threat of excommunication. This summary is not different from what both of us have been saying so far. So can we both now agree? |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by plaetton: 1:48pm On Sep 24, 2012 |
^^^^^ I Just read from Tidytim on the subject in question. Here is a link: Read and tell me which part you disagree with. https://www.nairaland.com/1056639/pagan-roots-trinity-doctrin |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:40pm On Sep 24, 2012 |
plaetton:if u were interested in a conversation instead of trying to contradict me u would have noticed that those two statement arent contradictory. Over 150years b4 nicea justin was already saying christ,the father and the holy spirit are God, yet he believed that God is one, same with ignatuis of antioch and so did all the prenicea fathers, nicea didnt just invent the doctrine, it was alway part of christianity, tertullian was the first to give the teaching a name. Errors later started and the council of nicea gathered to proclaim that which was true doctrine and to differentiate it from error. The church agreed that the trinity is a doctrine handed to her by the apostles. If u cant understand that there is a difference btwn proclaiming something and inventing it, then i would question ur reasoning abilities So which one? Dogma is defined and confirmed in councils , but not invented by the same councils?yeah the councils defined and confirmed the dogmas but didnt invent them. And then you go further by stating that dogmas are truth of faith .maybe that's what u've been saying or maybe u are simply making fun of what other believe. 2.And then, you go on to claim that dogmas are truth of faith as revealed by Christ and confirmed by spirit(which spirit, where and when?) to the apostles(which apostles?), and then faithfully(big laugh) handed down to the church(wow!) and passed down from generation to generation(through excommincations , right?).my friend i didnt speak greek did i? I would love to use some greek words but i dont speak greek. The divinity of christ and d holyspirit was taught by d apostles. (a) If it was jesus , then how and why would a bunch of self appointed men now convene to DEFINE, which in this context, means edit and confirm(who gave them the power and perogative ?) what is and has already been established by Jesus?pls note to define doesnt mean to change, when errors start flying around the bishops convene and put in writting that which was handed to them thru scripture and tradition. If u want to know how they got d authority read up act 15 Was the definition,confirmation, proclamation and adoption of sunday in place of saturday one of such dogmas revealed by Jesus?continue to joke, sunday as a day of worship isnt dogma, it was practiced by d apostles. (b) If Jesus did not,then since the teachings of jesus are the foundations and pillars of the christian faith, then such dogma or any supplementary teachings attributed to Paul or any other, as adjuncts to the testimonies of Jesus himself, should be null and void.now u are trying to be silly, argueing this with u will b a waste of time, if u havent heard abt d 'inspiration of d holyspirit' go look it up. If trinity or any other of the council doctrines were already revealed by Jesus, then why on earth would you need a council to convene for the sole purpose of debating(often with much rancur), defining and confirming(and excommunicating) what should have been obvious from scriptures?because error arose, read act 15, So, in summary;u want to put ur word in my mouth, i disagree, it seems u dont even have an open mind. I dont discuss with people whose sole aim is to display their beautiful ignorance. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by deluckiest(m): 1:52am On Oct 07, 2012 |
plaetton: You cannot question God authority and his decision. Can the pot ask its maker why it is made a particular shape? Have you considered why God declares his love for Jacob but hate Esau? Read Romans 9:13. Is he not God for both of them? God ways are higher than we humans and we only reason in human perspective. This same God who was freeing the people of Israel in the land of Egypt also turned around to hardened the heart of king pharaoh so that he will not allow them to leave. God do things his ways and not our ways. We should becareful how we talk about God or anything relating to him in order not to incur his wrath. Any other gospel that is aside the bible is considered heresy and manipulated. You haters of Christianity continue to read history books as you basis of attacking the word of God who came in human flesh. again watch your moth because there will not be appeal against God judgement on you if you are found guilty. 1 Like |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by deluckiest(m): 1:53am On Oct 07, 2012 |
You cannot question God authority and his decision. Can the pot ask its maker why it is made a particular shape? Have you considered why God declares his love for Jacob but hate Esau? Read Romans 9:13. Is he not God for both of them? God ways are higher than we humans and we only reason in human perspective. This same God who was freeing the people of Israel in the land of Egypt also turned around to hardened the heart of king pharaoh so that he will not allow them to leave. God do things his ways and not our ways. We should becareful how we talk about God or anything relating to him in order not to incur his wrath. Any other gospel that is aside the bible is considered heresy and manipulated. You haters of Christianity continue to read history books as you basis of attacking the word of God who came in human flesh. again watch your moth because there will not be appeal against God judgement on you if you are found guilty. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Emary(f): 2:23am On Oct 07, 2012 |
From my understanding, the phrase " the disciple whom Jesus loved" was only used by John himself in the Gospel of John to refer to himself. It is generally accepted that he was the youngest disciple and was most likely the "pet" of the group. This is evidenced by the fact that he is thought to have outlived all the other disciples by far. That does not however imply that Jesus played favorites. It was often Peter that was praised for his faith. It is believed that the reason He does not say a name is that he wants to emphasize his relationship with Christ without making himself the focus. 1 Like |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by plaetton: 2:32am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Emary: From my understanding, the phrase " the disciple whom Jesus loved" was only used by John himself in the Gospel of John to refer to himself. It is generally accepted that he was the youngest disciple and was most likely the "pet" of the group. This is evidenced by the fact that he is thought to have outlived all the other disciples by far. That does not however imply that Jesus played favorites. It was often Peter that was praised for his faith. It is believed that the reason He does not say a name is that he wants to emphasize his relationship with Christ without making himself the focus. Good points. But are based on conjecture. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by ayduamah: 3:35am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Dunno y some ppl won't stick to d script,the text asked about the disciple Jesus loved,there's no need to mk ref to a church or a congregation.unfortunately d mordern church is more divided than it ever was. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by fagin1982(m): 4:20am On Oct 07, 2012 |
991:@991 ---I pity you ...That's all..May God have mercy on you |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Shaw007(m): 5:48am On Oct 07, 2012 |
I see a lot of arguments here based on a movie,if anyone has seen the da Vinci code u'll know what i'm saying. . .saddening really!! |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by passion007: 6:03am On Oct 07, 2012 |
John the Beloved was that disciple whom Jesus loved. There are instances that support this: remember when Jesus spoke about how one of the disciples was going to betray him--Peter, knowing Jesus' fondness for John--asked John to enquire from Jesus who it was that would betray him. Also, at the foot of the Cross, Jesus although tired and weak and exsanguinating, musters the last of his strength and hands his Mother to John. Similarly also he says 'Mother, behold your son' Da Vinci Code had tried to upset the balance of Christ's church by popularizing that hilarious lie that Mary of Magdala it was who Jesus loved, and who had leaned on Jesus' shoulder at the Last Supper, but like all similar heresies in the Church's history, it managed to gain some following. Nevertheless, remember that apostle St John was young and beautiful, and Leonardo da Vinci was really trying to reflect that in his painting of the Last Supper. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by nkenu(m): 6:09am On Oct 07, 2012 |
The beloved disciple was Peter. Jesus even said and I quote " upon this Rock I shall build my church and the gate of Heaven shall not prevail against it" . ![]() |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by passion007: 6:09am On Oct 07, 2012 |
991:Judas Iscariot also kissed Jesus--does that mean Jesus also had strong feelings for him? A kiss was a way of greeting for the Jews. Even the Bible says somewhere--greet one another with a holy kiss. So, it's not the deep, throaty French kiss you and your girlfriend share...lol 2 Likes |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by tonmandy(m): 6:10am On Oct 07, 2012 |
[quote author=991] Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus' close companions. Jesus also cared especially for her by, for instance in one occasion, driving out 7 demons from her Luke 8:2. Anyway, according to widely accepted early Christians' doctrines, Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene. He apparently had strong feelings toward her. "Interest in Mary Magdalene grew following the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic Gospels in 1945. The Gospel of Philip explicitly said Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene in the mouth, making the disciples jealous of her. Other gospels in the Nag Hammadi texts also spoke of the intimate relationship between her and Jesus, even referring to her as his "beloved." her importance was shown by her presence in major events of Jesus' life. She anointed his feet with a costly perfume, an act the disciples tried to stop but which Jesus allowed. Luke chapter 8, tells us that Mary was one of Jesus' followers and traveled with him. Have you heard about the: the gospel of philip the gospel of mary magdaline the gospel of thomas the acts of peter, etc None of these gospels was included in the Bible because the content didn't conform to Christian doctrine, and they're referred to as apocryphal. One of the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi in southern egypt is the Gospel of Philip, in which Mary Magdalene is a key figure. It has been the cause of one of the most controversial claims ever made about her. Better be careful. The wrath of God. Who re u to write dis rubbish. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by frankmoney(m): 6:16am On Oct 07, 2012 |
991: |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by redsun(m): 6:25am On Oct 07, 2012 |
You mean the one he as poking his ass? |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by yemmy19(m): 6:29am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Haven't u read ur bible nii,its John d son of Zebedee 1 Like |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by ignis: 6:38am On Oct 07, 2012 |
[quote author=Lord_Reed] How is this something new? Right from Genesis we see The Father favouring individuals out of multitudes. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Joseph, Moses, etc. Lots of individuals have attracted and won The Father's favour so there is nothing special about Jesus having a beloved disciple. What is important is that, that affection didn't hinder anything He did, either before or after He resurrected.[/quote] You just said my mind. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by redsun(m): 6:48am On Oct 07, 2012 |
All these kind of mindset and useless issues are why nigeria is a failed state.People are so fcking deluded,their brains are less functional than than ants and they want to stay alive.And the fact that they keep putting all these BS on the front page,rather than the hidden sections where they belong,makes me begin to wonder whether seun has newly become delude or his is getting some shares from the scam houses,called churches. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Emary(f): 6:50am On Oct 07, 2012 |
plaetton: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_whom_Jesus_loved - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Apostle Please read these articles. It was a question posed in bible study over 15 yrs ago and I clearly remember the explanation we concluded. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Rescop: 6:52am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: i think u are forget that Jesus was also human, there is nting wrong with having likenes 4 someone.God favourd David by calling him a man after his own heart. So wot are u nt saying? |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by tintingz(m): 7:04am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Am not here to blasphem. . .buh according to you christians i mean early christians and historical even in the gospel of philip "Mary magdalene is whom Jesus loved and even kissed her" some even said "she had a child for Jesus" ![]() |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by mejai(m): 7:11am On Oct 07, 2012 |
first & foremost, some of dis disciples were relatives of Jesus. But 2 me, like others have mentioned...... John was loved by Christ. During transfiguration, john was der. John's mumsi came 2 ask Jesus abt her children position in his kingdom(still on john). Wen Jesus was nailed, whom did he talk 2 abt takin care of his mumsi & vice versa, broda John. Who got revelations abt things 2 happen? Johnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! Peace out! 1 Like |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by ujchief(m): 7:24am On Oct 07, 2012 |
BĂ©lla3: John the baptise wrote the book of John nt john the beloved, they are two different pple.hahahahaha... John the baptist ke, andrew the fisherman ni! Omo, stick to the Romance section abeg. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by manosteel(m): 7:35am On Oct 07, 2012 |
It's not out of place to say that Jesus had preference to certain disciple or disciples. If you look at scriptures, you will realize that he was more close to Peter, James and John. Rom 9 vs 13, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Don't forget that Esau was the favorite and dear son to Isaac, God's servant. So one would ask, is there unrighteousness with God? No. When he called Abraham, he called him alone. Even in the Bible, it can be seen that God had special interest in the Nation of Israel than any other Nation, yet we are all his children. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by roteemee: 7:36am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Using words like may b,I think it should b,I guess and so on.....only means one thing"assumption" and in religious principles we don't assume, u no because faith is "dogmatic".for Christians who feels they need to no more about their religion,go and read tha book "Christianity from fact to fiction" |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Nobody: 7:43am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Shaw007: I see a lot of arguments here based on a movie,if anyone has seen the da Vinci code u'll know what i'm saying. . .saddening really!! Nope, I don't think so. National geographic or discovery channel shows a lot of series on history of religion and paganism long before Dan Brown released his davinci code & Angels and demons. It's common believe that some gospels were deliberately not included in the bible by the catholic church in the Vatican. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Wislet(f): 7:46am On Oct 07, 2012 |
PAGAN 9JA:be very careful what you utter. For your own sake. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Wislet(f): 7:49am On Oct 07, 2012 |
PAGAN 9JA:be very careful whoever you are. The Bible is clear: There is only one sin in the world that can not be forgiven. Do not blaspheme the holy Spirit. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Wislet(f): 7:57am On Oct 07, 2012 |
@ all those arguing..... The Bible is not a book to be discerned with the human mind because it's beyond it. If you want to understand it, why don't you consult the author? The Holy Spirit is there to help you understand. Human philosophy will only have you spining in a web. And NO scholar has the authority of information in it. So u can stop quoting them. They are only humans like you. 2 Likes |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Medley(m): 8:10am On Oct 07, 2012 |
hello, U brethren think d bible is a literature piece, you can never truly undastand d bible until U read it with d spirit of truth. U need to first repent, pray for the fullness of the holy spirit, then he can be able to show you the deepest things of God. Thats is one of the reason christ gave us the promise. A disciple was too sure of christ being the son of God, in his account he understood what christ love was cos christ was filled with love towards him, he never died because of the love he had for christ, that christ needed to show him more things.be careful what u say, some of you that keep mentioning different kinds of dirty love type, shld be careful, God can only love with agape love. In d book of exodus God said i will show mercy on whom i will show mercy on. First u must first know dat christ came to the world in flesh not as a God. He possess every quality of human, but his special love for john was that he chose to love him because he knem was christ love was all about, dont question dat since there is a reason for Gods action, no wonder he so loved him that when others were killed John did not die, since he has been choosen to be recieve the revelation. Instead of asking questions dat are for babies in understanding, repent for the time is short, then preach the word of truth. |
Re: Who Was The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved? by Chibest2000(m): 8:22am On Oct 07, 2012 |
@tintingz infact ur username hv even sugested hw less important u ar, "som pple said she hv a child 4 him" who ar those pple? n wat's d nam of d child? Mumu. |
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