Ubenedictus: It seems u are trying to twist my words, this is a very big lie, i can say this as a catholic still descerning the priesthood. Priestly celibacy, has never been, isnt, and never will be a dogma. It doesnt qualify as a dogma, priestly celibacy is a CHURCH DISCIPLINE, it has been for over 1500yrs, is and may change at anytime. Please dont spread misinformation, celibacy isnt a dogma.
Eastern catholic church has a married priesthood, do u know that? When married anglican ministers become catholics and wish to be priest they are allowed to keep their wives, so dont be suprise if u enter a catholic church and d priest is married.
my dear with the exception of tertulian wu was a family man most other church fathers were celibate bishops, both history and their writtings bear witness to that fact.

nah, dogmas were defined and confirmed in councils, and those wu disagree were excommunicated. The dogmas werent invented in councils.
again this isnt true, dogmas are truth of faith as reveal by christ and confirm by the spirit to the apostles and faithfully handed on to the church generation after generation thru scriptures and tradition. The councils didnt invent the dogmas, they proclaimed it. Before nicea defined d trinity, it was already handed on to the church and believed and taught to christian, nicea simply said the trinity is a xtian doctrine, reminded us what d doctrine says and said that those wu rejected it were following a false gospel.
I hope u can see my position.

plaetton:
Oh, I see your position loud and clear.
Listen to your words:
Dogmas are truths defined and confirmed in councils.
Those who disagree were excommunicated.
And then you contradict yourself in the third sentence by saying:
That dogmas weren't invented in councils.

So which one? Dogma is defined and confirmed in councils , but not invented by the same councils?

And then you go further by stating that dogmas are truth of faith .
That is an interesting word, truth of faith?

If there is a truth of faith, there must also be falsehoods of faith. right?

So lets go over this again:

1.The church councils DEFINE and approve, sorry wrong word, CONFIRMS and then PROCLAIMS the Truth Of christian Faith, then throws out(excommunicates) anyone who disagrees.
Right?
But isn't this exactly what I have been saying by the term enforced dogma?

2.And then, you go on to claim that dogmas are truth of faith as revealed by Christ and confirmed by spirit(which spirit, where and when?) to the apostles(which apostles?), and then faithfully(big laugh) handed down to the church(wow!) and passed down from generation to generation(through excommincations , right?).


Wow, this is a very long stretch of fantasies.
Well, my friend, you have your fairy tales all figured out.
Kudos.

If Nicea did not invent trinity but only defined it, then what on earth was trinity before Nicea defined it?
Who first floated the idea of trinity, and who handed it down the Nicean council to define and confirm? Was it Jesus?

(a) If it was jesus , then how and why would a bunch of self appointed men now convene to DEFINE, which in this context, means edit and confirm(who gave them the power and perogative ?) what is and has already been established by Jesus?

Was the definition,confirmation, proclamation and adoption of sunday in place of saturday one of such dogmas revealed by Jesus?

(b) If Jesus did not,then since the teachings of jesus are the foundations and pillars of the christian faith, then such dogma or any supplementary teachings attributed to Paul or any other, as adjuncts to the testimonies of Jesus himself, should be null and void.

If trinity or any other of the council doctrines were already revealed by Jesus, then why on earth would you need a council to convene for the sole purpose of debating(often with much rancur), defining and confirming(and excommunicating) what should have been obvious from scriptures?

So, in summary;
The church councils debate,define,confirm, proclaim and enforce its own truths of faith, and then passes such along from generation to generation through intimidation with the threat of excommunication.
This summary is not different from what both of us have been saying so far.
So can we both now agree?

plaetton:

There is no evidence that the disciple John ever wrote the gospel of John. The Gospels were written several generations after the facts by unknown scribes.

The real question remains: Why would or should Jesus have had a special love for one of his disciples? Does that not strike one as rather odd ,given that Jesus was thought to be God incarnate, that he would do something as grossly human as to have a special love for one individual among the multitude of humans whom he came to earth to save?.

Emary: From my understanding, the phrase " the disciple whom Jesus loved" was only used by John himself in the Gospel of John to refer to himself. It is generally accepted that he was the youngest disciple and was most likely the "pet" of the group. This is evidenced by the fact that he is thought to have outlived all the other disciples by far. That does not however imply that Jesus played favorites. It was often Peter that was praised for his faith. It is believed that the reason He does not say a name is that he wants to emphasize his relationship with Christ without making himself the focus.

991:

Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus' close companions. Jesus also cared especially for her by, for instance in one occasion, driving out 7 demons from her Luke 8:2.
Anyway, according to widely accepted early Christians' doctrines, Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene. He apparently had strong feelings toward her.
"Interest in Mary Magdalene grew following the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic Gospels in 1945. The Gospel of Philip explicitly said Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene in the mouth, making the disciples jealous of her. Other gospels in the Nag Hammadi texts also spoke of the intimate relationship between her and Jesus, even referring to her as his "beloved." her importance was shown by her presence in major events of Jesus' life. She anointed his feet with a costly perfume, an act the disciples tried to stop but which Jesus allowed. Luke chapter 8, tells us that Mary was one of Jesus' followers and traveled with him.
Have you heard about the:
the gospel of philip
the gospel of mary magdaline
the gospel of thomas
the acts of peter, etc
None of these gospels was included in the Bible because the content didn't conform to Christian doctrine, and they're referred to as apocryphal. One of the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi in southern egypt is the Gospel of Philip, in which Mary Magdalene is a key figure. It has been the cause of one of the most controversial claims ever made about her.

991:

Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus' close companions. Jesus also cared especially for her by, for instance in one occasion, driving out 7 demons from her Luke 8:2.
Anyway, according to widely accepted early Christians' doctrines, Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene. He apparently had strong feelings toward her.
"Interest in Mary Magdalene grew following the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic Gospels in 1945. The Gospel of Philip explicitly said Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene in the mouth, making the disciples jealous of her. Other gospels in the Nag Hammadi texts also spoke of the intimate relationship between her and Jesus, even referring to her as his "beloved." her importance was shown by her presence in major events of Jesus' life. She anointed his feet with a costly perfume, an act the disciples tried to stop but which Jesus allowed. Luke chapter 8, tells us that Mary was one of Jesus' followers and traveled with him.
Have you heard about the:
the gospel of philip
the gospel of mary magdaline
the gospel of thomas
the acts of peter, etc
None of these gospels was included in the Bible because the content didn't conform to Christian doctrine, and they're referred to as apocryphal. One of the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi in southern egypt is the Gospel of Philip, in which Mary Magdalene is a key figure. It has been the cause of one of the most controversial claims ever made about her.

991:

Actually it was Mary Magdalene.

plaetton:

Good points.
But are based on conjecture.

Ubenedictus: i think u are forget that Jesus was also human, there is nting wrong with having likenes 4 someone.

Bélla3: John the baptise wrote the book of John nt john the beloved, they are two different pple.

Shaw007: I see a lot of arguments here based on a movie,if anyone has seen the da Vinci code u'll know what i'm saying. . .saddening really!!

PAGAN 9JA:


he had a child with a prostitute. that is so lowly of him. cant he have a grip on himself

PAGAN 9JA:


yeah she did, except now she served only one man . also i am serious on this note: early christian missionaries who set out to convert the tribal europeans, used to keep p.rostitues with them who traded free se.xual favours to entice converts.

and another serious question that needs be raised is, how did jesus meet this prostitute ?, if not when on a visit to a bro.thel to make use of services. .