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Re: To All The Atheists by Delafruita(m): 4:05pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:my life means something because i engage in activities i believe in.i dont need religion to give me that.for example,am watching arsenal vs man city with a bottle of star and a bowl of gizzard.thats the meaning of my life at this moment.later in the day i'd be on site to coordinate activities,that will be the meaning of my life by then |
Re: To All The Atheists by MacDaddy01: 4:06pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Delafruita: I'm watching the same match with indomie and sardines.....this is the life! Epic |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 4:14pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Delafruita:lololol...........you know you didn't answer my question but hey if that's what you believe, then good for you. |
Re: To All The Atheists by Delafruita(m): 4:29pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:i answered your question.however,you have an answer thats palatable to you but that isnt the answer i have |
Re: To All The Atheists by Delafruita(m): 4:29pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:lol |
Re: To All The Atheists by mazaje(m): 4:31pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Clear cut miracles like the sun standing still, men walking on water, men causing a tree to dry up, healing of amputees, raising people from the dead etc. . . lol, when you talk about a harmonized mind, you are really talking about one mind. A mind is not a measurable physical entity, therefore the only way we can infer multiple minds is if we observe conflict. In the absence of conflict, we have one mind. One mind how?. . .Differnt indiciduals come with different ideas harmonize it and make it one around a particular purpose, your evidence to show that the universe was not as a result of many creators is what?. . .If humans can come around a particular purpose and create many magnificent things that are in order what stops many creators from doing same to the universe. . . ......perhaps you want to tell me exactly what kind of evidence you require, that will satisfy you. Like a video evidence of Yahweh alone creating the universe. . .That is a concreate evidence. . . Now, the evidence I percieve you are asking for is similar to the kind asked by the pharisees when they said "show us a sign". If God can create the entire universe, then surely, He can speak. .....but I know you won't accept this, neither will you accept it if I told you that God speaks to me so I'll ask you an equally unreasonable question. Actually the bible says god used to address the ancient jews through public speech. . .he stays in the clouds and they could even build a tower to reach him before he got scared anc confused their languages, now we have space ships that have flown way above the mythical tower of babel and we still can't find any yahweh any where. . .How does god speak to you, does he speak to you the way you speak to another human being?. . .What was the last thing he told you?. . . I hold that you are not capable of thought. Could you please provide scientific evidence that you can think about the color blue? Another dishonest escapist tactic. . . you know very well that this nonsense of yours won't fly with me, you brought up the mind argument i never did so deal with it. . .If you have an audio of your god's voice then prsent it so that we will know that your god speaks the human language or be prepared to be mocked and ridiculed when you keep making wild assertions with out providing any evidence for them. . .What can be asserted without evidence needs to be quickly dismissed without evidence. . . |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 4:34pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
mazaje:Lol, video evidence of you thinking of the color blue will do.......thanks |
Re: To All The Atheists by mazaje(m): 4:38pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I am not making any assertion buy YOU are, so deal with it, you claim to know that the universe was created by on single entity, a clear cut evidence to show that you know what you are talking about will do. . .Present the clear cut evidence instead of running around biting your long tail. . . |
Re: To All The Atheists by Nobody: 4:43pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
ah ladies and gentlemen, are we still here debating the sun, moon and stars? ![]() Have we nothing better to do on such a brilliant day as this? 1 Like |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 4:43pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: In that particular instance, my skepticism would be borne out of my experience that men do not fly. But thats just an instance. The statement could be something I have absolutely no knowledge about. I may be hearing it for the first time. Do I believe just because some scientist comes to me and utters many exotic sounding words (whilst wearing a white coat and horn rimmed glasses) ?
Yeah I know. I just couldnt put the necessity into perspective. Maybe you could explain better. I think, depending on what is being discussed, necessity could be subjective. Again with the necessity. I think the shape in the variation of the analogy (ie Russell's rock) is important because it is what makes the rock stand out from a generic one. If you told me there was a rock in space, I shouldnt doubt you. Thats because I know about asteroids. Someone else not knowing these things may be inclined to doubt them. It would be expensive, but possible to give such a person a first hand experience. However, when you assert the existence of a certain rock, shaped in a particular way (possibly with the lyrics of Michael Jackson's first hit engraved on its face) then that statement is either true or false. In this case, you are speaking of a specific rock which can be identified and distinguished from ordinary rocks. Whether I believe it or not wouldnt affect the truth or false value of the statement. And just because I cannot falsify it does not mean I should accept it as true. In any case, in asserting that there was such a rock, if we kept dribbling on the issue, using subjective criteria to determine how and when the rock could be viewed, then we could make it impossible to falsify the statement. There's no point speaking about a generic rock. There are rocks in space. You may have no need to doubt, that is true. Your truth may be that she is Ijaw since you have no outside knowledge to the contrary. It however is your truth and not the truth. For many people in those days as you pointed out, the truth was that the earth was flat. Theres another truth now. If you have ever had something you took absolutely for granted shown to be false, you would understand. (And no, I dont think I am adopted ![]() However, your own truth doesnt overide the real truth which maybe that your mother is not of the tribe you believe her to be. In other words, the plausibility factor is high here, but does not guarantee the truth. In fact, this brings to mind a point about objective and subjective morality, but thats a digression. Well, I would say that the most likely reason for him to question his origins would be if he discovered some new information. But thats not my point really. In fact, my point is to the effect that he states he is Yoruba when he is infact Urhobo (though he doesnt even know this). In other words, he tells someone he is Yoruba, has a Yoruba name and speaks Yoruba fluently. He has no records of his parents, and so to all intents and purposes, he is Yoruba and that cannot be falsified. In reality though he is Urhobo. Thats the point.
Aha, but if he does not know, it doesnt stop him from disbelieving. Disbelieving isnt saying something is untrue. Much earlier I agreed that someone would have a reason for disagreeing. jayriginal: My pleasure |
Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 4:46pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:. Unless I'm missing something, you already have accepted it doesn't exist when you accepted an omnixxx being cannot exist. It's anony-god, the one that's all true with no false, that is all-loving, not omnibenevolent (even then your arguments failed miserably though). Abrahamic god is all omnixxx. If you want to debate all the other silly contradictions, nonsense claims etc attributed to abrahamic god, the fairy tales in the holy books, find someone with even more time to waste than I do. So, address my post now properly, ser. I will see you bleed, even another wharrgarbl will suffice. |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 4:48pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
mazaje:lol, so you are incapable of thought then..... |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 4:50pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
wiegraf: .I don't know exactly what you want me to address. I can only tell you about the nature of God as He has revealed Himself to me. I cannot go beyond that. You may start by asking a sincere and direct question. |
Re: To All The Atheists by Delafruita(m): 4:52pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
davidylan: ah ladies and gentlemen, are we still here debating the sun, moon and stars?this is too polite.i had to check to be sure it was you.or you've got the flu? |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 4:53pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:lol nice, I notice that we are now dancing on opposite sides of the table. There is a question which I find more interesting and will help us to make some sense of our discussion. How does one know? let's ponder this question and see how we go. |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 5:01pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: And I agree with you on that. However, we are talking about disbelief and not rejection. Two different things (though both would have their reasons). Bear in mind the differences.
Any knowledge would have to be objectively verifiable. The methodology clearly set out and it should be capable of replication (where applicable). This guards against an individual making an assertion and urging the rest to take it on faith. While not 100 percent foolproof, I think it is the best we can do. By objectively verifiable, I mean using the 5 senses and in such a way that another (normal) person would reach the same conclusion using the same senses. |
Re: To All The Atheists by Nobody: 5:09pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Delafruita: ah it really is me and i dont have the flu this time. Just amused to see those who claim God doesnt exist still parked here frothing in the mouth while the rest of us go on having independent lives. ![]() |
Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 5:12pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: What in the world does this mean? Did you, or did you not accept that a fully omnixxx being does not exist? You're accusing me of being dishonest? Wtf? |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 5:12pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:Ok, all well and good, but let me point out something here. you are assuming that our 5 senses can not be deceived and also repeatability does not apply to all things e.g. "my mother is Ijaw" is not something that is subject to repeatability. Do you agree? P/s: I have an answer which I would like to suggest but let us exhaust yours first. |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 5:17pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I'd like to see you try to repeat your mother being Ijaw ![]() EDIT: I have not assumed our 5 senses cannot be deceived. Illusions attest to this. |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 5:18pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
wiegraf:Lol, that's a loaded statement which suggests that if an entity does not have a particular characteristic, then it is somehow deficient. I told you what God's nature is like. You are the one who is assuming that some characteristics you feel God should have automatically makes God deficient if he does not have them. That's like saying that color red is not fully blue. |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 5:20pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:lol, my point exactly EDIT:how can you possibly tell that you are in an illusion if you are part of the illusion? |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 5:26pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I'd like you to rephrase this please. Seems I can interpret it in more than one way. Particularly the being "part of the illusion part". |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 5:28pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:what ways do you interprete it? perhaps that'll help me know how to rephrase. |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 5:45pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Just rephrase please. |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 5:55pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:My friend, I don't want to shoot in the dark, you said you could read it more than one way, please tell. then I'll tell you if you indeed got what I was trying to say. |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 5:58pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Lets not start a merry go round here. Earlier on you asked me to clarify something and I did. Simply rephrase. It should make your meaning clearer. Biko. |
Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 6:03pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Anony, and perhaps someone else can help me out here as I care about the technicalities of religions about as much as I do those of the zodiac, is the christian god claimed to be all of omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolant? I am not asking about your anony-god anony, I'm asking about the official version of abrahamic sky-tyrant |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 9:27pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:Ok fine, how do you know for sure that your senses are giving you the right information? How can you know for sure that you are in a real world and not an illusion or in a dream someone somewhere is having? (e.g. as in the movie Matrix) Is this clearer for you now? |
Re: To All The Atheists by jayriginal: 10:01pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Thats better, thank you. In a well crafted illusion it would probably be near impossible to know this fact . That would be the overall picture (ie that the reality is an illusion). However even in such an illusion, one may be able to perceive reality. That is to say that things still happen which can be verified by normal means within the illusion. If I am a character in someone's dream, that person must have quite an imagination because the dream is very complex. I wake, I sleep, I touch, I feel and so do billions of others like me (within that same dream). We are born, we live and we die. This dream then, this illusion, is our reality. It has rules and we have habits. As I said earlier, it would be near impossible for us to know we where actually in an illusion if we in one. Personally, I have no reason whatsoever for thinking so. |
Re: To All The Atheists by MrAnony1(m): 11:03pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
jayriginal:Just so we don't go off track and start talking about illusions, the reason i raised that question was to show the inadequacy of our senses and perfection. The question still lingers over us: how do we know and how do we know that we know? |
Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 11:44pm On Sep 23, 2012 |
Anony, answer me... |
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