italo:

The Quran doesn't call it gospel of Jesus. It calls it "The Gospel." No manouvreing please.

when you are on the side of truth you never need to manoeuvre.

it calls it "injeel" and it is specifically the revelation given to the Son of Mary not one according to mark or john.

if you take a red letter bible,only that part in red would be considered injeel if they are actually the words of Jesus. and that's what's referred to in the verses you quoted.

.....subscribing.....

tbaba1234:

Husbands and fathers maintain and protect their mothers, sisters and wives. It doesn't make them better. They are naturally physically stronger and are best placed to serve that role...

Funny enough, that is one of my best surahs from my studies... It is just incredible...

Female babies survive better than males.

"physically" stronger is very subjective.


Anyways, women can play that role as well. Widows can raise good sons, we have enough evidence for this. There are many women who are the heads of families.

Even the queen of England is an example. Keep living in the dark ages with your sexist Quran.

carefulme:

No I am not sure
........but before I continue, I need u to answer some questions......
.......some academic scholarships of some countries are meant for only citizens of that countries and there are of course international scholarship for students of other countries....

Q1 why do u think this is so.........
Q2 Do u say such countries are racial for not giving a common ground to every students.....
Q3 don't u think it's too much of them to think of their own citizens as best qualified for some scholarships. Even though there may be students of better academic excellence from among other countries, making them better suited for such awards?

Country not equal to race. Invalid question.



Tell me, do you honestly believe that you are more morally upright than me because you are a muslim and I am an atheist?

@wiegraf,
tbaba1234: "....Young muslim kids when they come to the west face issues in trying to reconcile evolution with Islam because they know very little about Islam or the Quran and they start finding out about this alternate explanation. Many of them end up messed-up..

This is why they should be given a proper Quranic education showing the literary excellence and unparalleled brilliance of the Quran and a class on evolution to understand the theory and take away what is useful from it..

Not only do they become better muslims but they can give dawah to evolutionists..."

HOW CAN THE ABOVE TRANSLATE TO "MUSLIM CHILDREN SHOULD NOT LEARN ABOUT EVOLUTION"..... it seems you aim to cause confusion.

@ all,
if closest translation of "ruh" is spirit, it means Jesus is refered to as "spirit of Allah", is that similar to holy Ghost or what is the Question aimed at? is Jesus also the holy Ghost? if truely you have a soul, is it of God or from God are you also "ruhullah"?.
the fact is that the Quran is clear/convincing enough and an xample like "ruhullah" though it may not be understood in totality, a sincere reader will seek to know why it is used or what it means. or do the spirit of Allah need support of holy spirit again?

MY UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS BEING CALLED "RUHULLAH" IS BECAUSE THE SPIRIT(SOUL) WAS SENT INTO MARY DIRECTLY THROUGH HER SLEEVES BY AN ANGEL. it does not make him a spirit and the quran is clear on this

similar examples are:
Muhammed-rasulullah "messenger/Slave of Allah" are we also messengers/Slaves of Allah
Abraham - "friend of Allah, Islam teaches that if one is righteous and prays well, he can reach that status too. so, i ask, WHAT IS "SPECIAL" about ruhullah?
again i ask, if truely you have a soul, is it of God or from God, are you also "ruhullah"?.

the Quran says that to some God spoke directly(moses), and Jesus was strenghtened with the holy spirit(Q5:110, Q2,253), Abraham was a friend of God but the Quran stressed that they are all messengers.

but to the poster, is he trying to belief in a part of the Quran...lol? may God guide us aright.

^^
Sit out of arguments you do not understand

wiegraf: ^^
Sit out of arguments you do not understand

dont try to educate in ignorance, it is simply a high level of wickedness.


...... just passing (wink)

ghazzal:

dont try to educate in ignorance, it is simply a high level of wickedness.


...... just passing (wink)

And demonstrating you're a re.tard. What did you just accomplish?


Edit: I missed the astounding levels of hypocrisy in your post actually, considering how muslims seem to know how evolution works(or does not), and all the other fascinating 'science' and 'truths' you claim to know....

Absolutely enjoying this ... I hope it becomes the longest ever thread on NL!

wiegraf:

And demonstrating you're a re.tard. What did you just accomplish?

its not meant to be an insult. im sorry if it looks that way but its JUST an HONEST opinion.

ghazzal:
its not meant to be an insult. im sorry if it looks that way but its JUST an HONEST opinion.

Ok. Apologies if I was insulting as well, but you seemed to be indicating I had dishonest intentions, not always a good thing depending on your aim. It would be better to assume a honest mistake rather than throw accusations, as the reply you get would be measured accordingly.

"....Young muslim kids when they come to the west face issues in trying to reconcile evolution with Islam because they know very little about Islam or the Quran and they start finding out about this alternate explanation. Many of them end up messed-up.."

He is saying that the version of evolution taught in the west is false, hence an alternative version, something else, should be taught. I need not need explain how an alternative version of evolution is in no way the real thing.
If you follow that thread his version agrees with evolution but conveniently excludes homo sapiens from it. Again, that is in no way evolution.

And also note that western (US) courts have indeed confirmed evolution as science, and mandate(not sure if mandate, but certainly encourage/accept) it be taught in schools. In essence western thought fully agrees with evolution as science. It does no such thing with intelligent design.
So he thinks western science is flawed, islamic culture is superior, yet has no qualms with muslim children in western society's schools. I think he live in the US too, so he has no problems with living in the inferior west as well.

wiegraf:

Edit: I missed the astounding levels of hypocrisy in your post actually, considering how muslims seem to know how evolution works(or does not), and all the other fascinating 'science' and 'truths' you claim to know....

have you seen a muslim who said he knows how evolution works? i dont think so....... evollution to me is still an hypothesis, and more assumptions will still be made. it means if there is reason to believe something better tomorrow, some assumptions will be replaced....... it is just the folly man puts himself in.

i really im off this tread since the reason if different.

@OP, sorry for interfering.

ghazzal:

have you seen a muslim who said he knows how evolution works? i dont think so....... evollution to me is still an hypothesis, and more assumptions will still be made. it means if there is reason to believe something better tomorrow, some assumptions will be replaced....... it is just the folly man puts himself in.

i really im off this tread since the reason if different.

@OP, sorry for interfering.

You may have noticed that I point out tbaba seems to think he knows better than the west's scientific community. Is he not a true muslim? And evolution is a THEORY despite your personal opinions, officially fully accepted by western science and courts as well. I may not have the time to get into secifics now, but again, you proclaim that evolution not a theory? It is a scientific fact that can be looked up in english from all sorts of media, even via a simple google. You do this clearly from ignorance, then you accuse me of teaching from ignorance?

Most theories eventually get replaced with newer, more accurate ones. That does not mean the older thoeries are completely wrong mind you, just that they aren't completely accurate. The issue with religion is clearly arguing from ignorance and then declaring it fact, drawing conclusion before you even do the science. That is pure, unadulterated folly as far as science is concerned, in no way part of the scientific method.

F00028:
when you are on the side of truth you never need to manoeuvre.

it calls it "injeel" and it is specifically the revelation given to the Son of Mary not one according to mark or john.

if you take a red letter bible,only that part in red would be considered injeel if they are actually the words of Jesus. and that's what's referred to in the verses you quoted.

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 12:47-50 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak

F00028:
when you are on the side of truth you never need to manoeuvre.

it calls it "injeel" and it is specifically the revelation given to the Son of Mary not one according to mark or john.

if you take a red letter bible,only that part in red would be considered injeel if they are actually the words of Jesus. and that's what's referred to in the verses you quoted.

not to derail the thread but i needed to point this out - those are all red letterd words in the bible.Which of them do you believe?

andromida: not to derail the thread but i needed to point this out - those are all red letterd words in the bible.Which of them do you believe?

F00028:
...if they are actually the words of Jesus

@F0028 oh ok didn't know you are on the fence on this.

andromida: @F0028 oh ok didn't know you are on the fence on this.

how do you figure that?

I believe God gave Jesus a message (gospel) to his people. unfortunately it has not been preserved unedited. what you have now is the gospel according to mathew, mark, luke or john.

let me ask you, when you read in the bible Jesus went here and there preaching the gospel do you think it was mathew, mark, luke or john he was carrying ?

F00028:
when you are on the side of truth you never need to manoeuvre.

it calls it "injeel" and it is specifically the revelation given to the Son of Mary not one according to mark or john.

if you take a red letter bible,only that part in red would be considered injeel if they are actually the words of Jesus. and that's what's referred to in the verses you quoted.

"O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgement, hath gone far, far astray" (4:136 AYA).

That is a command to Muslims from the Quran. What is the "scripture which He sent to those before him (Mohammed)"? And which are the "Books" Mohammed is referring to there. Do you believe in them as the Quran told you to?

"We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them" (3:84 AYA).

What are the books given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets? Who are the "Prophets"? Why does the Quran say "their Lord" if it is the same God?

"Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them" (7:157 MP).

Which are the "Torah and the Gospel which ARE WITH THEM (Jews and Christians)" in Mohammed's time? Is it not the same Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? If not, show me the Gospel Mohammed is talking about. Let us read it together.

"And when there cometh unto them (Jews) a Scripture (the Qur'an) from Allah, confirming that in their possession" (2:89 MP).

What Scripture was in the possession of the Jews at the time of Mohammed?

italo:

"O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgement, hath gone far, far astray" (4:136 AYA).

That is a command to Muslims from the Quran. What is the "scripture which He sent to those before him (Mohammed)"? And which are the "Books" Mohammed is referring to there. Do you believe in them as the Quran told you to?

"We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them" (3:84 AYA).

What are the books given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets? Who are the "Prophets"? Why does the Quran say "their Lord" if it is the same God?

"Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them" (7:157 MP).

Which are the "Torah and the Gospel which ARE WITH THEM (Jews and Christians)" in Mohammed's time? Is it not the same Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? If not, show me the Gospel Mohammed is talking about. Let us read it together.

"And when there cometh unto them (Jews) a Scripture (the Qur'an) from Allah, confirming that in their possession" (2:89 MP).

What Scripture was in the possession of the Jews at the time of Mohammed?

did you not also read in the Quran that some people sold the message for a small price(worldly gain). go back to the inception of christianity, a little after"jesus left" what was the different positions and why. it will be a good study for all christians.... remember that you have just 1 life with a choice to save it.

F00028:

how do you figure that?

I believe God gave Jesus a message (gospel) to his people. unfortunately it has not been preserved unedited. what you have now is the gospel according to mathew, mark, luke or john.

let me ask you, when you read in the bible Jesus went here and there preaching the gospel do you think it was mathew, mark, luke or john he was carrying ?

How and when did you become an authority on the scriptures and its corruption? for you to be able to spot the difference you must have the original. Do you have the original copy of the words of Jesus christ? pls note i did not say the bible.If you were not there when Jesus was preaching the gospel can you tell us who was there so we can go and hear from them.?

ghazzal:

did you not also read in the Quran that some people sold the message for a small price(worldly gain). go back to the inception of christianity, a little after"jesus left" what was the different positions and why. it will be a good study for all christians.... remember that you have just 1 life with a choice to save it.

Was the narrator of the quran there when these people sold the message for a small price or how did he come about this knowledge? Christians do not have information on the different positions "a little after Jesus left" and why. Help them out Remember too that if you help them make a proper choice to save their one life God will be happy with you.

andromida:

Was the narrator of the quran there when these people sold the message for a small price or how did he come about this knowledge? Christians do not have information on the different positions "a little after Jesus left" and why. Help them out Remember too that if you help them make a proper choice to save their one life God will be happy with you.

my friend, you need to know that God never stoped watching man. so if truely the Quran is by God, then the answer to your Question is known. i think if you really care to know, you will seek for reason to believe the Quran is from God (1 of the reasons i believe it is from God is that it has history you cant find anywhere else - story of Abraham, Adam, Moses...).
I had to point that out cos @italo Quoted from the Quran with a wrong notion and ignorance.

@Reyginus:

by Reyginus(m): 2:00pm On Oct 15
Sweetneckta, I want you to exit this thread.

have you been drinking again, reyginus?

ghazzal:

my friend, you need to know that God never stoped watching man. so if truely the Quran is by God, then the answer to your Question is known. i think if you really care to know, you will seek for reason to believe the Quran is from God (1 of the reasons i believe it is from God is that it has history you cant find anywhere else - story of Abraham, Adam, Moses...).
I had to point that out cos @italo Quoted from the Quran with a wrong notion and ignorance.

You have not answered my question. History you cant find anywhere else? really?

ghazzal:
did you not also read in the Quran that some people sold the message for a small price(worldly gain). go back to the inception of christianity, a little after"jesus left" what was the different positions and why. it will be a good study for all christians.... remember that you have just 1 life with a choice to save it.

So if the message was SOLD (past tense - which means it happened before the Quran was written), why does Mohammed then write:

"Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (WHICH ARE) with them" (7:157 MP).

Note that the present tense indicates that The Torah and Gospel were with Jews and Christians at the time Mohammed was writing the Quran. They hadn't been "sold", as you put it.

Which are the "Torah and the Gospel which ARE WITH THEM (Jews and Christians)" in Mohammed's time? Since Mohammed said he believed in the earlier scriptures, it means he must have been reading it. Can you then tell us where to get a copy of the scriptures. Or did Mohammed throw away his copy...and that of all the other Muslims who were reading it and believed it? All over the world, not a single Muslim had ONE copy of this scripture which they read and believed? I find that very dubious.

italo:

So if the message was SOLD (past tense - which means it happened before the Quran was written), why does Mohammed then write:

"Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (WHICH ARE) with them" (7:157 MP).

Note that the present tense indicates that The Torah and Gospel were with Jews and Christians at the time Mohammed was writing the Quran. They hadn't been "sold", as you put it.

Which are the "Torah and the Gospel which ARE WITH THEM (Jews and Christians)" in Mohammed's time? Since Mohammed said he believed in the earlier scriptures, it means he must have been reading it. Can you then tell us where to get a copy of the scriptures. Or did Mohammed throw away his copy...and that of all the other Muslims who were reading it and believed it? All over the world, not a single Muslim had ONE copy of this scripture which they read and believed? I find that very dubious.

"Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (WHICH ARE) with them" (7:157 MP). - is "muhammed" in the bible now? the logical truth is that at the time of revelation, it was in the bible then(what edition was availabe then) or some peole had the original version.
you simply have much logical reasoning to do if you believe in the Quran verse you quote.

by Logicboy03(m): 1:09pm On Oct 15
I dont believe in any religion be it Judaism, Christianity or islam!!!!

so live and let others live in the want to protect their women from unsavory eyes and vultures plying the tube transportation system.

There is no atheist agenda. Atheism is not a religion.

Written by a Christian woman but something every Muslim should take note of. You don't have to agree but I'm just saying. Note that George Carlan, who is referenced in the article and takes the same position as this lady, is an avowed atheist. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32704.htm

Crap. Why dont you allow the mushrikun to honour you? wink wink wink

the question is do you not agree that you are british when a white english says you are? you are a first class hypocrite. You will never be white in a trillion years and the people in hyde park debating will say you are never an englishman.

Crap. Why dont you allow the mushrikun to honour you? wink wink wink

the biggest hypocrite comes from south south of nigeria, he will accept being called igbo, when south south south used to be part of eastern region and was part of the biafra. yet he is happy to be called a brit by his white english friend.

All human beings came from a group of at least 10,000 people due to the variation amongs humans. We didnt come from 2 people, especially Jewish people in the middle east when the fact is that we humans came from Africa.

a statement that lacks evidence is not going to taken as proof. while you say 10,000 humans suddenly appeared or formed in africa as the beginning of "human race", how came out first among them and who made fisrt among them [names please]. my first human is a male called Adam [as]. Then a female of same kind named Eve. They were able to mate and produced human children which in turn produced human babies. the process is a funnel like phenom or reverse pyramid.

Atheists have the lowest divorce rates. Sorry for you muslims and your fake claims of marriage fidelity. Surah 4 doesnt work

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm

when you dont marry you will definitely have the lowest rate.

ghazzal:
my friend, you need to know that God never stoped watching man. so if truely the Quran is by God, then the answer to your Question is known. i think if you really care to know, you will seek for reason to believe the Quran is from God (1 of the reasons i believe it is from God is that it has history you cant find anywhere else - story of Abraham, Adam, Moses...).
I had to point that out cos @italo Quoted from the Quran with a wrong notion and ignorance.

Personally I think the Quran is a fraud and it is from the devil. I believe Mohammed is an imposter. He is NO prophet of God, only an agent of the devil...and among my reasons are:

The Quran calls Jesus a prophet of God and encourages Muslims to believe in the scriptures of Jews and Christians. And a prophet/scriptures of God wouldn't teach lies. Let us even assume Jesus is only a prophet as Mohammed said. It would mean that Jesus didn't teach lies. In the Bible, Jesus calls himself the Son of God...and God. Thomas called him God and he didn't rebuke Thomas. Then Muslims say that the Bible and the Jewish scriptures have been corrupted. When we say give us the original, the one Mohammed read from, they can't give us. If you don't have the original, how can you tell that my copy is fake? If you have never seen the scriptures, how can you read it...much less believe it - as Mohammed told you to.

Secondly, when I look at the life of the man, and what he inculcated into his followers, its clear that he was nothing close to a prophet.

And please, let's not go into details of that liar's life and teachings... It will do you no good.

And it can get a fatwa on my head.

Sweetnecta: @Reyginus: have you been drinking again, reyginus?

Lolol.
Their are many unanswered questions I posed you in the islamic section.
Until you provide the answers, you have no business here.

italo:

Personally I think the Quran is a fraud and it is from the devil. I believe Mohammed is an imposter. He is NO prophet of God, only an agent of the devil...and among my reasons are:

The Quran calls Jesus a prophet of God and encourages Muslims to believe in the scriptures of Jews and Christians. And a prophet/scriptures of God wouldn't teach lies. Let us even assume Jesus is only a prophet as Mohammed said. It would mean that Jesus didn't teach lies. In the Bible, Jesus calls himself the Son of God...and God. Thomas called him God and he didn't rebuke Thomas. Then Muslims say that the Bible and the Jewish scriptures have been corrupted. When we say give us the original, the one Mohammed read from, they can't give us. If you don't have the original, how can you tell that my copy is fake? If you have never seen the scriptures, how can you read it...much less believe it - as Mohammed told you to.

Secondly, when I look at the life of the man, and what he inculcated into his followers, its clear that he was nothing close to a prophet.

And please, let's not go into details of that liar's life and teachings... It will do you no good.

And it can get a fatwa on my head.

you are free to think what you want but there is a price so i advice you think right.

according to ur bble, re we not all sons of God, how about the person who makes peace bw 2 people. go and read the conext of where Jesus was referd t as God, who was reporting the incident. is it reasonable to beleve such hook-line-sinker.
if Jesus did not lie, could he have been sent by God nd also be God....... its just simple logic to now something is wrong with the book.

If you have a revised version, you should bring the original used for the revision. abi una no get am again?

you dont even know the man muhammd. what you look at im sure is the blasphemous info by your...... by people.

what he inculcated in his followers is love for mankind, how to live in peace, to fight against oppresion, moral conduct (does your new gospel even teach morality).... to be the best you can be all in a bid to seek Gods favour.

"And it can get a fatwa on my head" are you blaspheming?

MAY GOD GUIDE US ALL ARIGHT.

@Nakash:

by nakash: 4:53pm On Oct 15
A man to islam should never be disobeyed in the house, should never be denied any demand he places on his wife. A muslima women is conditioned from birth to obey the husband without any hesitation. A muslim woman married to a non muslim might be asked to leave her religion. Islam cannot have their numbers reduce out of any situation like this. So what does a male supremacist solve this? Ban non muslims from marrying muslim wives! Bingo. Allahu Akbar! Islam is a male supremacist man made religion and reading the big 3 apologists justify that can be real depressing.

the muslim wife being able to initiate divorce throws your "mulsim man must be obeyed" idea through the window. incidentally, gender conditioning is what makes women obedient in the general population if you know anything about husband and wife. why should anyone force another to a new religion? husbands who force their wives to their religion is probably part of the reason islam is against women marrying outside Islam [Allah Knows Best]. which group wants his membership dwindled down? how is Islam man made, when there is no place in the Bibles that God says "the religion of man" is Judaism, Christianity and from other Eastern religions, their books did not claim that their religion should be what the claim. But in the Quran, Allah says "Religion of Allah on man is Islaam".



@Italo:

by italo: 6:47pm On Oct 15
Muslims say Jesus is only a prophet. The Quran encourages muslims to believe in the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus says he is much more than a mere prophet. So who is lying? Mohammed or Jesus.

Quran does not say Muslim should believe in the Bible. There are many types of Bibles and no singe one of the that Allah says we should believe in as you claim. Original Taurah of Moses when he was alive, original Injil of Jeus son of Mary when he was alive, muslims believe in those, but your Bibles. What Jesus said you people have corrupted it. You have turned him to greek, english, etc speaker, telling story about him in your gospel according to . . . . instead of letting him preach the gospel he was sent with which should be simply Gospel [given to Jesus son of Mary [as]].