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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) (41168 Views)
Is That Really Jesus? By Reno Omokri / Archangel Michael Is Jesus Christ / Is Archangel Michael Jesus Christ? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 10:12am On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: your opinion. We have seen what the bible says. The arch angel is the leader of the angels. And Jesus is also the leader of the angel. QED. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:15am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:one of the foremost princes, that implies that there are other foremost prince! Beside chukwudi claims to be using d original language which is aramic, if u wish to be honest u shuld check out his claims and if u can find proof that the aramic didnt say so pls paste it. Name calling and church bashing isn't a way to debate, show us that chukwudi claim as regards d aramic are wrong. Chukwudi didnt say d latin translation he said d aramic, i really dont see d reason y u are talking abt d rcc here! |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:18am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:is d verse not in ur bible, pls answer! |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 10:19am On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: what have you presented to warrant a contrary knowledge? Nothing. Between your view and the evidence in the scriptures which should we accept? Yours? Error. The bible is the final abiter of truth and not frosbel. What you have said are your opinion, nothing more nothing less. You even said that christ have not preexisted, how can one take you seriousely on this thread? Stop shouting learn. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 10:19am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight: No, that is the standpoint of JW not the bible. Hear the bible out : Hebrews 1 : V4 - "...having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. v5 - "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You.'? And again, 'I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me.'? v6 - "And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.' v7 - "And of the angels He says, 'Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.' v8 - "But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. NO ANGEL Would have qualified to die for the sins of MAN. Jesus Christ, our beloved Lord and Saviour came in flesh and blood, he was MAN like you and me , only that his Father is GOD and he is now glorified and exalted above all power and authority in heaven and earth. "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." - Hebrews 2:17 1 Like |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:23am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:so u didnt hear dat d minister of defense is commander of d army, d cheif of army staff is also commander and the president is also commander? Does that mean d president is d cheif of army staff? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 10:25am On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: so we must fit in, into frosbel's imaginations now to be on the know? Lol. Guy, face reality and stop standing on your personal opinion. Jesus has been very very active in the things of Yahweh as pertending the redemption of mankind and finally appeared to pay the ultimate sacrifice and seal the covanant. This is the truth. Frosbel cannot change it and frosbel cannot give himself or any other person eternal life. Peace. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 10:26am On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:26am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:and becos d minister of defense is a commander does that make him d president? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:40am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:doing what u know how to do best, it is a pity that not even d early heretics thought Jesus was an angel not even d arian from whom u borrowed ur theology. Wow russel has made a 19th century doctrine, ofcourse if luther made one new doctrine ind d 16th cent im not suprise russel made another. U are disturbing urself abt d rcc, go to d orthodox church and see. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ubenedictus(m): 10:42am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight:so y does d bible say "to which of d angels"? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 11:47am On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight: The reality is that Jesus Christ is neither Yahweh nor angel Michael. Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , the Messiah and the Christ. In Jesus Christ we have eternal life. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:29pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
Who is this angel that God sent to go before the Israelites @Frosbel? [/color] Exodus 23:20-21 Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for "My name is in Him".[/b]His voice must be obeyed and Yaweh's name is in Him and He has the right not to pardon thier sins, who?. And again, who is this angel? God did not go with them, He sent His angel. [color=#990000](Exodus 14:19-24.)[b] And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud went from before them and stood behind them. So it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel. Thus it was a cloud and darkness to the one, and it gave light by night to the other, so that the one did not come near the other all that night. Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea into dry land, and the waters were divided. So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left. And the Egyptians pursued and went after them into the midst of the sea, all PharaohÕs horses, his chariots, and his horsemen. Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the LORD looked down upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the Egyptians. Paul also spoke about this historical event and He specifically told who the Angel is. Isn't this questionable? (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, "and that Rock was Christ". Who did God told us He sent with them? thesame Paul refered to. Corinthian made clear Exodus. This same Angel Isaiah called the "Angel of His Presence" That saved, redeemed, and carried Israel all throughout the days of old. Isaiah says that this angel became their Savior! How many names is this same angel called now? Its very easy to use one scripture, do we know Gods plan is far deeper than we believe we know? You can refute this scriptures, either you tell me that, Paul was not talking about thesame Event of Exodus Exodus 14:19-24 and Exodus 23:20-21 Then tell us what event was Paul refering to and what scripture page/chapter can we find it? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:35pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: Does this not proved He existed before? He was made much better than Angels, but do you know He has been with the Angels? They are His angels. Do you know if He obtain this higher quality because of His uniqueness? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 1:40pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: Jesus Christ as a person came into being when he was begotten by the Father through a virgin. Prior to this, there was no person called Jesus Christ , only a prophecy of his coming. The angels are Yahweh's angels who have NOW been made subject also to the Son. Again, your deductions , supposedly from scripture , that Jesus was and is an angel are based on inferences and assumptions not fact. Jesus Christ was a 100% Man , not a mythical half man / half god or half man / half angel. He came in flesh and blood and died for our sins as prophesied by the Father Yahweh. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:49pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: Who is the angel Yaweh sent that HAS GODS NAME IN HIM, SAME WAS REFERED TO BY PAUUL IN CORINTHIANS WHO IS THIS ANGEL This is bible not assumption. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 1:52pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: Well I cannot assume, or should I ? He was an angel sent by GOD with the authority of GOD given to him, just like God has given his authority to other angels, prophets , kings etc. No specific name was given for this angel , and therefore any assumptions made will be at best based on presumption. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:01pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: so u didnt hear dat d minister of defense is commander of d army, d cheif of army staff is also commander and the president is also commander? Does that mean d president is d cheif of army staff? Daniel 10:13) 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Michael is also our prince! Daniel 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. If Michael is our prince, then maybe, the other prince or princes are nt our prince! And Scripture says Michael is the great prince tht protects God's people. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1 Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince, the Prince of Peace, the Prince and Savior, and also the prince of the kings of the earth! |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by true2god: 2:03pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: so y does d bible say "to which of d angels"?Nice and simple question. Or maybe angel Michael was not among 'to which of the angels' being spoken of here. But thank God for the book of Hebrews dat removes any form of ambiguity here. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:03pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: So who did Paul say He is? 1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, "and that Rock was Christ". Did Paul made mistake here? |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 2:04pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: My goodness sister, slow down You just quoted this phrase 'Michael, one of the chief princes'. Does this not mean that there are many other chief princes ? Surely this is what the quoted scripture above means, no ? Be careful , the devil might be leading you to worship angels and not JESUS. "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions." - Colossians 2:18 |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:06pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
true2god: Nice and simple question. Go back to the old testament and trace who Christ is. It is the bible that will tell you. No one is claiming anything here, i have been posting scriptures to match scriptures. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 2:06pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
Some people here are saying that Jesus will go and borrow an arch angels voice to be able to raise the dead at the end, that is why he will shout with an arch angels voice since the voice is not his own. Lol. Then, Was it a borrowed arch angels voice that Jesus used in raising up Lazarus? No, it is His(Jesus)voice that raise Lazarus and it is him that has the arch angels voice it his him that has the commanders voice, it is his voice that the dead will hear and rise at the end. Are you saying that an arch angels voice has more authority than that of our lord Jesus christ? Insult! An only beggoten son, a prince needs to borrow to do the will of the king. An arch angels voice is not more powerful than that of christ but rather it is him Jesus christ that has the commanding voice like the commanding voice that he had used in raising up lazarus. Yes, our lord has a commanding voice an arch angels voice to raise the dead, the voice of whom all authority both in heaven and on earth has been given. A commanders voice, he is not borrowing it, but rather, it is his voice. Peace |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 2:07pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: the spiritual rock is the wellspring of eternal life now made known in Christ Jesus. This is an anti-typical statement signifying the future provision of true and tangible eternal life which is through Christ. "Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." - John 7:38 |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 2:11pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
truthislight: So simple and yet you miss the point . "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16 1. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command 2. with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God 3. dead in Christ will rise first Obviously Jesus commands the dead to rise up while the archangel blows the last trumpet. "in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." - 1 Corinthians 15:52 " And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other" - Matthew 24:31 |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:11pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: Yes "one of the chief princes shows there are other princes but they are never refarred to as Michael. His role is unique, He leads other Angels. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1 I repeat, Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince. why is He the great prince? 1 Like |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 2:13pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: Wrong !! There is nowhere in the bible where we receive confirmation that Michael leads all the angels of GOD. Again you are making baseless assumptions and inferential statements. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:16pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: The Angel that has the name of God in him, that God sent after them, is thesame Paul is reffering to as the "Spiritual Rock. You cannot twist this one Bros... |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 2:20pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
plappville: 2 things : 1. He had the name of GOD in him , but no names mentioned, though this could have been Michael. Also having the name of GOD in him desigantes the level of authority granted to him by GOD for the purpose or representation. 2. There are other archangels and chief princes, Michael was one of them, not the leader of them. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:25pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: Did not Rev 12:7 told us He led them? And who did Isaiah refered to as the Angel of His Presence? (Isaiah 63:7-9) I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD And the praises of the LORD, According to all that the LORD has bestowed on us, And the great goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies, According to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses. For He said, "Surely they are My people, Children who will not lie." (So He became their Savior). In all their affliction He was afflicted, And "the Angel of His Presence" saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:35pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
frosbel: Bros when looking at certain OT scripture and match them with the NT, you will have all the need to ask question. Ok, among the other Princes, which has been called "the great prince" apart from Michael? Scripture prove please. In Revelation 12:7 we see the two princes battling it out. Michael with His angels, the angels of heaven, is fighting against Satan with his fallen angels, those who have become demons. If Michael is the "great prince" who protects the children of thy people, it is quite possible that the other prince is our enemy. |
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 2:38pm On Nov 22, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: what does "one of the foremost princes mean"? If michael is "one of the foremost princes" that means there are others like him. foremost prince means the top prince. One of the foremost means there are other princes that have high rank like the cherubs that have four faces and are befor yahweh. since Jesus said that no man has seen Yahweh but the son of man, it means that Jesus also have acces to Yahweh. So, the reference "one of the formost prince is not out of place and it takes into consideration and regard for the axalted position of those other angels. But there is actually one overall leader of the angels = archangel. A reference to "one of the top ranking officers in Nigerian arm" does not mean that all the "top ranking officers" are in the same ranks but rather, it shows that he is a senior officer. But when the reference is directed to the leader of the Nigerian army, though he is "a top ranking officer, he is the greatest of them all and he can only take orders from the "all in all" and in this case Yahweh. Leader of the angels = arcangel. The statement : "One of the archangels" does not mean he is the overal leader of the angels and it is wrong. The bible talks about one arch angel, so, changing the reference "one of the foremost princes" to "one of the archangels" deceitful and a seriouse deed. "One of the foremost princes" also takes into consideration that yahweh takes all other princes and angels as "sons"(job 38:7) but there is an only beggoten son, created directly by yahweh. That being an only "beggoten" makes the whole difference between Jesus christ and every other angels or princeses. And, the leader of yaweh's army is an only beggoten son = Jesus christ. Peace |
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